EPTI honestly just want you to re read everything because you're missing a lot of stuff thats happened and seemed to grab at my bad, jumpy responses and none of my good ones. Is it because you see me as easy focus? Or what? I want more on Blurry and Heavenz, because I don't think Pharcyd is posting anytime soon. So that's what/who I want more from/on
Newbie Mini Mafia XLVII - Page 17
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Lord Velocity
84 Posts
I honestly just want you to re read everything because you're missing a lot of stuff thats happened and seemed to grab at my bad, jumpy responses and none of my good ones. Is it because you see me as easy focus? Or what? I want more on Blurry and Heavenz, because I don't think Pharcyd is posting anytime soon. So that's what/who I want more from/on | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On September 05 2013 11:35 Bereft wrote: wow, this thread moved fast. a couple of things right off the bat: heavenz, were you doing a super speedy skim of the thread? because (a) i called ray out for that comment ages ago and (b) you provided thoughts on basically EVERY SINGLE POSTER last night save for me. hurts my feelings bro. to me, all you've done is provide a vague summary of everyone's comments with light FOS on a few players. i appreciate the sentiment if it's genuine, but this really does not sum up as a pro-town post to me. in response to killerdog's comment, i was by no means satisfied with holyflare's responses, but it seemed pretty clear to me that he was dead set from opining on any of us at that point and that he's confident his game play and method can catch scum. to me, this came down to more of a stylistic difference rather than scum vs non scum behavior, so i decided i'd rather just make a note of it and see how his posting evolves (as he hinted that it would with time) rather than eat up the discussion with bickering about differing playing styles. don't tell me what to do, you're not my parole officer. ok so it seems insane to me how badly LV's defense was in response to the BAREST of pressure placed upon him. unfair, really? i'm willing to entertain the idea that he's an anxious townie and wanted to post something before he was accused of inactivity (i'm talking about his very first post, mind you, nobody had mentioned they thought he was scummy at this point) -- but at the same time, why would a townie be so anxious to throw out a comment that he hasn't really thought through, ie posting just for the sake of posting? also suspicious is the fact that he then tries to shift the blame to Umasi, 1 of the players who responded aggressively towards his comment iirc. i think also light suspicion was directed at] me. LV, if you have any questions to send my way, please go ahead and ship em over. i'm happy to expand on anything i've already written, because right now it looks to me like you're grasping at straws. unfortunately because he has no other game play for me to take a look at, i can't tell if this is just his town play. trust me, i'm heavily debating this right now. finally, fk man, have myrzeth or pharcyd3 posted anything?? (and no, i don't count pharcyd3's 1 liner as a post) Looks familiar...... Will respond to the other questions stated towards me when I wake up, night. | ||
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Lord Velocity
84 Posts
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
either that, or he's implying i'm just copying him / reiterating his opinion that heavenz first post was filler. one of the two. | ||
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Lord Velocity
84 Posts
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
On September 05 2013 12:08 Lord Velocity wrote: Nvm, I'm just saying you're legitimately holding what happened when I had no reads, and was panicking because of people saying I was on their scum list, with out providing major reasonings, mind you, and you go out and not even care about what good I've done the town but okay. What is your opinion on Umasi? Because you seemed to not mention him I don't think, you instead targeted the obvious, ummm, I do'nt want to say weaker to offend anybody, but less contributing? you could say, and left Umasi, Holy, Blurry, Chairman, Infill. I don't know if you're targeting us because you think we're the more suspicious, or if you don't want to give reads on the others? please clarify the good you've done the town. there are quote buttons above each post btw -- feel free to use them. are you saying it is unfair of me to hold you to your panicked posts? why are you so panicked in the first place? at that point in time there were no votes on you and you had like 40 hours before the end of the day cycle to defend yourself. if anything what i find unfair is you playing the weak card. why would i target the stronger posters who've gone out of their way to write thorough analysis vs. the posters who've written what seem to me to be filler posts? but for the sake of transparency, i am happy to give a rundown of my reads on the players. will need a couple mins to type this up. in the meantime since it seems like we're the only 2 online right now, why don't you respond to the above. | ||
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Lord Velocity
84 Posts
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Bereft
United States1007 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + one of the most active posters - the fact that he's willing to use his vote to pressure people makes him pro-town in my eyes. why? voting patterns can be one of the strongest ways to make a case against scum, so the fact that he's not wary to use his vote is encouraging 2. Infii + Show Spoiler + he wrote one main analytical post, but it's hard for me to take it seriously because he analyzes myrzeth's "/in" and pharcyd3's ridiculous 1-liner. really needs to step it up, will become increasingly suspicious if he continues to provide such fluffy analysis 3. heavenz + Show Spoiler + pretty much what i said in my above post - his post read to me like he's trying to appear townie while really contributing nothing. suspicion level = high 4. killerdog + Show Spoiler + he wrote a lot, none of which stood out to me save for a random post addressing "loaded questions". that seemed pointless and like a misplaced effort to seem helpful. be succinct and articulate? no shit.  5. myRZeth + Show Spoiler + there's literally nothing on this guy 6. Bereft + Show Spoiler + innocent! awesome pro-townie 7. Pharcyd3 + Show Spoiler + nothing on this guy either, his 1st post was a joke and not even worth addressing without the context of other posts 8. HolyFlare + Show Spoiler + originally i couldn't tell if he was scum trying to derail the conversation with discussion about playing methods, but i think as the game has progressed i'm starting to lean towards town. i think the main thing winning me over is the air of confidence his posts exude that he can and WILL catch scum. this could be a pretty bold strategy (esp in a newbie game), but with that kind of air, i expect results and good analysis from him. if he starts spouting off insubstantial shit i'd have to rethink my stance. 9. Lord Velocity + Show Spoiler + my posts above should be pretty clear ... i can't decide how much benefit of the doubt i'm willing to give you at this point 10. Chairman Ray + Show Spoiler + too many troll posts, don't have a read on him right now to be honest 11. LoneMeow + Show Spoiler + i'd really like to hear from lonemeow. so far, his only posts have been to ask other players what their opinions are. i can't tell if he's trying to steer conversation away from himself towards other players or if he's doing all of his analysis in his head only because it fucking sucks to type with 1 hand  . funnily enough, his longest post in this thread is his description of his accident. (get well soon!) 12. Blurry + Show Spoiler + i liked his effort to generate interesting topics of conversation via posting scum / townie reads. that lessens my suspicions of him, but since then he's all but disappeared | ||
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Blurry
Switzerland125 Posts
Expect to hear from me in the morning about other players and how i think we should proceed going into night 1. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
First off, I'd like to address why I jumped so hard on the edit. LV had a rather shaky start, and responded rather badly to the pressure Umasi put on him at the very beginning. He had just started making a more actual posts but I still didn't really have any read on him. When I saw that he had made a post then edited it, I figured I had main options. 1, I tell chairman ray to chill out, that it was not something worth starting a lynch train on, and maybe put a bit of pressure on ray or something. 2, I go on him full force and see what happens. There were two main reasons I went with the second option. Firstly, he's already proven to be weak to pressure, and I was curious to see how he'd respond the second time. A few of the more "scummy" elements of his first defence had been pointed out to him, and if he'd replied either really quickly (making the "back in a few hours" thing very sketchy) or if he'd replied with a long, well worded, well thought out argument, I would have been pretty suspicious of him because it would have been such a dramatic change from the last time. Secondly, There was always the chance that someone who had been relatively quiet/noncommital had jumped onto the vote train behind me, which would have given a lot of information depending on who they were. His defence felt very natural, It was all one giant paragraph, lots of run on sentences, it just didn't feel like something which had been proofread very much or anything like that, whereas I feel a mafia would likely have put a lot of time/thought into formulating that defence if they actually felt under real pressure. Furthermore, his first two posts in the thread, (before game started): On August 31 2013 11:06 Lord Velocity wrote: /in My first game of mafia, so brace yourselves. On August 31 2013 11:22 Lord Velocity wrote: I kinda get basics, I've played irl, which is different, and then I've watched Neal's streams I felt that these two things made him having just not read the rules properly more plausible, having a good handle on the how mafia works might lead to just skimming the rules rather then carefully reading them, whereas a total beginner or someone who's played forum mafia before would probably not make that mistake. Thats why I pressured really hard for a few posts then backed off again. I was surprised that he mentioned finding me suspicious as a result, given that he'd named me as town just a few posts above, but I don't see why a mafia would do that, it seemed more like sloppy play due to stress then being a particularly town or mafia move. @Bereft, the reason I said it felt like you were placated was because you were going on him quite hard, then he said that his style was to highlight posts you question and ask for explanations, and you go On September 04 2013 13:26 Bereft wrote: hm. well. if we're just going to chat and make small talk ... i have to admit i'm no longer browsing that other newbie game for "meta" -- but for pure lulz. Alakaslam and iVLosK! sooo good. so many gems. i'd probably have kept alakaslam alive just for the banter. hahah but seriously if we're just going to talk about inconsequential shit, what's the point? also infii, killerdog, myrzeth, pharcyd3, where you guys at? And then vanish. It just felt a bit like either you felt like you'd "done your bit" or his answer fully satisfied you, because talking about the other game just felt a bit like you were looking for a way to end the conversation, rather then agreeing or disagreeing with him. I can see how that doesn't contradict your reasoning for posting it the way you did though. Also, the focus shifted off LV after the first pressure thing, my feeling of the general consensus at the time was that he had screwed up, but we were willing to (at least for now) attribute that to inexperience, and he made a few posts giving his views on things. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146¤tpage=14#268 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146¤tpage=14#274 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146¤tpage=15#281 Nothing groundbreaking, but more then quite a few other people had done at that point. The votes to lynch were more reactions to the edited post, (as was umasi saying "don't vote vel"). I can see how these changes in mood can be hard to pick up on if you read the whole thread at once though. Also a point which i think is worth raising now. Given that we have to have voted for someone/sleep with 18 hours, and there is still a player who hasn't posted, (myrzeth,) If we lynch someone, say pharcyd3, and then myrzeth gets modkilled, what effect does that have on the game, and if we have a confirmed mod kill would it be better to sleep? I'm in a hurry to get to class so I don't have time to think about it properly right now, but I think we need to have a plan in place to account for the chance of there being a mod kill on myrzeth. Mod question, If myrzeth doesn't show up by midnight CET, does he just die, or does a replacement get put in. Browsing the thread, the only two replacements i noticed were koshi and someone else, but you said koshi had way too many games for a newbie mafia, and the other guy mentioned only doing it if apeture mafia didn't start, which it has. | ||
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Lord Velocity
84 Posts
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Lord Velocity
84 Posts
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
Also a point which i think is worth raising now. Given that we have to have voted for someone/sleep with 18 hours, and there is still a player who hasn't posted, (myrzeth,) If we lynch someone, say pharcyd3, and then myrzeth gets modkilled, what effect does that have on the game, and if we have a confirmed mod kill would it be better to sleep? I'm in a hurry to get to class so I don't have time to think about it properly right now, but I think we need to have a plan in place to account for the chance of there being a mod kill on myrzeth. if myrzeth is going to be modkilled, we proceed exactly as normal and lynch the scummiest player. If we lynch pharcyd3, at least the lurkers are killed, although I'm against that and think there are better options. aside from that since it's not super important I'd prefer we not lynch velocity today, since he's present and is actively engaging in discussion with people. Heavenz or infii, on the converse, obviously haven't been, and this makes me read them as scummier (heavenz scummiest). Killerdog, I'm having trouble understanding what exactly you think, because you give a lot of summations of peoples posts, and your thoughts (which is good!) but you don't actually draw conclusions from it all. Instead of going X did A and Y did B which had a scummy result, be like 'this is why he is scummy/not scummy'. I can't tell what you're actually trying to communicate in your post =/ umasi out | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
On September 05 2013 14:38 Umasi wrote: if myrzeth is going to be modkilled, we proceed exactly as normal and lynch the scummiest player. If we lynch pharcyd3, at least the lurkers are killed, although I'm against that and think there are better options. Pharcyd3 is now modkill territory also, not worth voting on unless he comes around to drop a last minute vote in which case he dies D2. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
On September 05 2013 09:47 Lord Velocity wrote: Umasi to me is more on the town side of things and Holy in the middle. Bereft on the more scummy parts of things with Blurry neutral.I haven't heard much else from them since so I think it's safe to think about lynching either Myrz, or Pharcyd, because I don't know how the mod killing thing REALLY works. But yea unless they respond I'm pretty sure they're safe lynches. Can you point out what changed your opinion on Umasi? I think you had him down as scum earlier? | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
On September 05 2013 09:36 killerdog wrote: Also for the record, this is the third time that velocity has responded to being called scummy by just calling the accuser scummy in return. And the u-turn from To Based solely off the fact that we think it's suspicious that he edited a post is quite dramatic. Anyway, I'm going to sleep now. If myrzeth or pharcyd3 shows up, don't let them get away with a "sorry" and a few regurgitated reads. Also, I'm leaving my vote on Velocity, not because I want to kill him immediately, but because I find the fact that he gets suspicious of both me and ray because we thought editing was suspicious rather far fetched. (If nothing else it would be rather strange mafia play to try and bandwagon on someone like that day 1) I think your reasoning here is very weak, OMGUS cases are just as likely from town as they are from scum. I find it far more interesting that he doesn't seem to push his suspicions very hard after that. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
On September 05 2013 05:41 Umasi wrote: heavenz post was 'this is what I think and why' and then 'why' is really iffy, but at least he's willing to tell us what he thinks. Infii, you didn't really address much current in your post, but I'll give you time. I obviously do not, but I don't want to bother with this discussion. I like killerdog for town for being very forthcoming with everything, and I'm waiting on Ray to tell us his reads. Lonemeow is doing a lot of asking questions, (which I am a fan of), he addresses the lurker thing which I am 100% on board with, but you'll notice he hasn't given opinions on anyone but Holyflare/me and phar (who only posted a useless one liner). gonna go full lonemeow style; Lonemeow, Why have you only commented on Holyflare and me? (and phar, with his one liner) I see you don't read very carefully, as I did FoS Lord Velocity (in the same post, no less). And while on that topic, my current read on him is newbie town, I seriously doubt scum team would let him draw attention with newbie mistakes like that. You, on the other hand, seem to have your reads jumping around quite a lot. You had a scum read on Chairman Ray earlier, has that changed and if so, why? | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
On September 05 2013 13:35 killerdog wrote: Mod question, If myrzeth doesn't show up by midnight CET, does he just die, or does a replacement get put in. Browsing the thread, the only two replacements i noticed were koshi and someone else, but you said koshi had way too many games for a newbie mafia, and the other guy mentioned only doing it if apeture mafia didn't start, which it has. If myrzeth does not post or vote until midnight CEST, he will be replaced if it is possible. I would prefer not to use Koshi's offer since he is quite experienced. If I can find no other replacement I will contact Koshi. Modkilling sucks, especially on Day 1 already... | ||
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heavenz
Austria301 Posts
Umasis orignional opinion about me was : heavenz post was 'this is what I think and why' and then 'why' is really iffy, but at least he's willing to tell us what he thinks. then come Holyf. made me suspicious because I have him on my scum list but didn't press on. My answere to that is that you're a) an active player b) you said you kept your reads to yourself for a given while perhaps that was scum tactics to delay anything, but it sounded reasonable to me. I was just cuirous to see your reads on players, but I was expecting you to post them without me having to press them out of you (I am not sure I know how that works lol). Then you press on about my idle posts, that they are non-contributary. I don't know how you value contribuatry in this game, so I can't say anything to that. I was writing down what I thought in that moment, because it seems in my timezone was nothing happening. What is interesting is however is that usami jumps on your post regarding me, on brings it one step further and immidiatly votes me, regardless of me having sleeping at that time and no news. It smells like a follow move, have you finally established total dominance? As is, I gut lean towards heavenz, but I think both infii and heavenz are reasonable lynch choices. He's falling in love with your analysis. We have to give credit were credit is due, you weren't the first to go on me, his gut feeling can be explained as such: Heavens, that post is worthless. Absolutely irrelevant. Said nothing. Role playing is something I am increasingly losing patience for. At least pretend to have read the discussion. Holy flare is wrong but townie, null on info, ray is scummy, heavens is scummiest, blurry is null. Heavens is scummiest for his entrance True though is that the most charismatic player (Holyf) and the most aggressive player (Umasi) seem to dislike I. So how can I defend my entrance post, it's not possible anymore, it was written. I adore roleplaying, and was surprise how I was shut down... we are agents after all, are we not... wtf. what ever. ok continue with Bereft jumping following umasi on me, and make me look suspicious for a) calling out the weird ray QT post (a) i called ray out for that comment ages ago and I saw that you asked, but I didn't really understand what it meant, so I hoped for a better explanation. b) you provided thoughts on basically EVERY SINGLE POSTER last night save for me. hurts my feelings bro. the truth is, you're to complex for me to understand. + Show Spoiler + @holyflare - agreed that meta has its merits, especially in a newbie game. i think that newbies' meta could be easier to discern vs. vets because we aren't as self-aware in our game play. what i do find interesting is that per your comments, i went back to browse past games, and in the last game you were in, like the very first post i see you make right out of the gate advocates lynching all liars and lurkers. mind explaining the sudden change of heart? why initiate this topic of conversation? sure, you could argue about the "math" of not lynching, but while this ultimately comes down to a game about numbers (like survivor!) your speculation about the math of it all seems pointless to me, because how do you quantify something like the present value of future clues? the cost of inaction? etc etc. i like blurry's idea. it's a bit early for me to have much of an opinion, but why not: on the town-dar: umasi - a bit rude perhaps, but not afraid to tread on toes and call shit out. on the scum-dar: don't wanna seem like i'm just following you, but i gotta say lord velocity too. while my first instinct was also to be suspicious of holyflare for advocating no lynch, i think LV was a bit quick to FOS holyflare with a 1-liner just for that. because i could see several reasons why scum would prefer a lynch day 1. if anything they might even think they stand to gain more by lynching day 1 vs no lynch unless they're incredibly risk averse lol. I don't understand anything. + Show Spoiler + On September 04 2013 12:08 Holyflare wrote: That being said I'm not telling you my scum reads or especially my town reads at this moment in time. hahaha ok dude, we'll try our best to survive the night without your brilliant insights. can't promise that we will though. it's not in our hands. (yours...maybe?) This was not my reacting, even though I posted in the same way as you. I expected Holyf. to give reads before the night. + Show Spoiler + hm. well. if we're just going to chat and make small talk ... i have to admit i'm no longer browsing that other newbie game for "meta" -- but for pure lulz. Alakaslam and iVLosK! sooo good. so many gems. i'd probably have kept alakaslam alive just for the banter. hahah but seriously if we're just going to talk about inconsequential shit, what's the point? also infii, killerdog, myrzeth, pharcyd3, where you guys at? Some "meta" stuff I don't understand. Calling out afk's, reasonable. At write a 1 or 2 liner to everyplayer, without any actualy content or further explanations. I can come to a conclusion, to me, all you've done is provide a vague summary of everyone's comments with light FOS on a few players. i appreciate the sentiment if it's genuine, but this really does not sum up as a pro-town post to me. likewise. Regarding Lord Velocity I will say this, Umasi seems to belive he's town, and interpreting every word he says as a town newby mistake. In fact Lord Velocity seems to panic under pressure but bold after he felt Umasi shielding him. This could mean some things, either Lord Velocity is playing a wicked sick good noob, or he indeed is a town that can't deal with pressure for what eer reasons. We will see. (Lord V don't take this post attack right now :D, at the moment I am almost convinced, that edit thing was way over the top lol). Regarding Holyf. I am actually dissapointed by his analysis. He was given time without pressure, and all he comes up with is heavenz ain't much town coz his idle post sucks. Deep man. You have some backstory on Infis we couldn't know and you play it out. Regarding Infis it's hard to have a opinion, coz his town play is very casual, I appreciate your efford to suspect him, as I appreciate your efford to suspect me, but I am still hoping for more. I wrote you as scum because I don't see the purpose of most of your post yesterday. You were arguing about things I don't acknowldge as relating to the game, and give some smartass advice. Yes you played before, I get it. you posted too much, but your typical day1 post looked like this + Show Spoiler + Also, I never said not to talk about scum reads, just how can you possibly formulate a case on somebody so quickly????? If you want to accuse someone of being scum why would you publicly announce it SO early with the offchance that they could 180 on their whole style of writing because you picked out their name. Why not keep it to yourself and formulate the case based on your initial suspicions and when it comes close to actually lynching someone you'd have substantial reasoning for a lynch rather than, 'oh his first post was scummy but then he became better'... As for questions towards you, I asked for you to elaborate first before I asked the questions but now you've mimicked other peoples responses because you were away so I don't need to ask the questions anymore. glad you changed your mind. + Show Spoiler + I find it ridiculous that people can post pages about lurker lynching, their ideas on what people are doing that is town and not town but when I post it then what? It's "let's stop talking about policy bla bla"..... calm down, i'm redirecting conversation to more applicable topics rather than what is going on which is a lot more helpful than shitting all over the post. policies... what the fuck then comes your 1 post, the one single post that has actual (this) game concerning content, in which you finally give some of your long waited reads. You come up with your background story on infi which makes him look more scummy and that regard me, that is all? You're trying to establish a pole position in this town without *actually* giving much? I think you're underestimating noobs,.. or not. I'll keep an eye on you. | ||
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