FT's Scum Profiles
Really sorry guys, it took a lot longer than I expected. Here's rayn. I'll do the rest soon.
+ Show Spoiler [rayn] +On July 29 2013 04:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Oatsmaster - Has about 25% of the posts in this game. When Oats posts shitton he is town. Is also making sense. Vivax - Has good posts and trying to figre out stuff. On the other hand i feel like something is not right here. I have no idea what it is but i think Vivax is worth looking more closely into. Clarity_nl - Definitely yown. I like his thought process on like everything. Is pushing his reads and doing that hard. IMCaptainJackSparrow - Town, pretty sure of it. His exchange with exarezee was interesting and he came out of it much better looking. I think he should let Oats go and find a mafia target instead. It's not so hard to see Oats is town. Paperscraps - Posting feel genuine and he had good points until his last post. This one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=26#501 , where he says he should not explain why his read on Oats is what it is. That to me seems like he has a read on Oats that he is not able to explain. Bad. Malongo - Purely based on his first post and my experience with him in other games. VayneAuthority - I think Vayne's posting implies he is town. I don't like him not giving out his reads if he thinks someone is mafia, but that's how he rolls on D1 as town. Definitely not worth lynching. Stutters695 - I really liked Stutters' post about Vivax early on. I dunno what makes him think CJS is mafia, and i'm waiting on his case on paperscraps. hzflank - I had a big big red read on hzflank before this: "I did start to prepare a case on Oats yesterday but I cancelled it shortly after starting. As I was writing it I became less sure that Oats was scum and I did not want to post a case that I did not believe in myself. That is fairly normal for me as I seem to be good at convincing myself that someone is not scum." That basically proves that hzflank is town, that is so incredibly genuine. Koshi - Says people should not pressure FT, wrong. People who are scummy should be pressured. His vote on hzflank is horrible, it's clear that he doesn't even think the dude is scum. Other than that he has not done anything that can be considered scumhunting. FirmTofu - Early on says that "we should talk about the game instead of general bullshit", which he has been talking about in his every post before that. Later on he corrects himself that he was talking about RPing, gifs etc. That's as useless as lurker-lynch talk. tsk tsk. CJS posts btw are totally not fluff, they were at time amongst the best in the game. His stance on JAT is fucking weird and his exarezee case accuses him for same things he says about JAT. He is throwing shit left and right but not trying to figure out who are scum with exarezee, who is he voting at. He is not questioning him at all but soft-accusing other people. justanothertownie - I don't think he has said anything useful. His vote on Paper is pretty shitty because paper has at least expressed some reads, which JAT has not done at all. Only thing he has done is to get into a shitfest with Oats, which is not useful thing to do for a townie. exarezee - He has posted a fuckton and he is new. I don't think there is a chance that he is mafia based purely on that. The cases / votes on him are shit, none of those reasons make him mafia.
Vivax, who do you actually think is mafia? Where is your head at. I was assuming you to take a town leading status and drive the discussion into important matters. You are staying in the sidelines and not doing much. Why is that? Koshi, all you have done is posted useless lists. Who do you think is scum and why? What is your stance on FirmTofu? Do you still think he is town? FirmTofu, wanna lynch Koshi? Or can you give me reasons to not lynch him? Stutters, you wanna make that case on Paper?
##Vote: FirmTofuDefinitely scummiest person so far. His case on exarezee is bad. All the points on him are assumptions that cannot be defended against other than "no, you are wrong". There is no concrete evidence. Then he calls him wishy-washy as exarezee does not have a clear stance on someone. Look at what he says about JAT after that. "I can move my vote on him if you make a good enough case". Right... Standard rayn. Calls me out as scum every game on Day 1. Why am I not surprised... His other reads don't tell me much about rayn yet. Good to acknowledge where he stood if he flips scum. Like Clarity said, a lot of it is just thread sentiment. Both town and scum are guilty of trying to emulate thread sentiment. On July 29 2013 04:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also FT, why is your stance on JAT so wishy-washy? Pursuing his best scum read. rayn is generally aggressive like this as scum and town so I take this behavior as non-alignment indicative.
I'm not going to quote everything, but a good 2-3 pages of his filter from this point are just tunneling me. Town can fall victim to this. I did in NWM and DrH did in Sicilian. It is not all that uncommon. However, in this case in particular, rayn is tunneling me with terrible reasoning. I will crop out the arguments that he makes and address them directly. Early on says that "we should talk about the game instead of general bullshit", which he has been talking about in his every post before that. Later on he corrects himself that he was talking about RPing, gifs etc. That's as useless as lurker-lynch talk. tsk tsk. CJS posts btw are totally not fluff, they were at time amongst the best in the game. His stance on JAT is fucking weird and his exarezee case accuses him for same things he says about JAT. He is throwing shit left and right but not trying to figure out who are scum with exarezee, who is he voting at. He is not questioning him at all but soft-accusing other people. He's accusing me for: 1) Telling Vayne to stop posting fluff My Response: How is this alignment indicative? I'm telling people to cut out the bullshit so we can play the game. That is not alignment indicative in any way. 2) He disagrees on my opinion on CJS' focus on roleplay My Response: While you may think CJS' posts at the time were good, you can't call me scum for disliking the RP aspect of it. Your disagreement is not grounds for calling me scummy. 3) He disagree with my stance on JAT, calling it weird. My Response: Again, weird behavior that you disagree with is not necessarily alignment indicative. If you think there is some scum motivation for what I did, then feel free to point it out. Otherwise, this isn't a valid argument. 4) I am "throwing shit left and right" without trying to figure out who is scum with exarezee. My Response: This is completely false. I pressured Vivax for his flip-flopping stance on lurker lynches and I questioned various people to try and find out who might be buddying with XRZ. 5) I'm not questioning XRZ at all and instead am soft-accusing other people. My Response: You just contradicted yourself in the same post. If I'm soft-accusing other people, doesn't that mean I'm looking for scum with XRZ? What exactly is scummy to you? The fact that I'm looking for scum with XRZ or the fact that I'm not questioning XRZ enough. You need to decide which one makes me look scummy instead of accusing me of both contradictory behaviors. Definitely scummiest person so far. His case on exarezee is bad. All the points on him are assumptions that cannot be defended against other than "no, you are wrong". There is no concrete evidence. Then he calls him wishy-washy as exarezee does not have a clear stance on someone. Look at what he says about JAT after that. "I can move my vote on him if you make a good enough case". Right... 1) My case on XRZ is bad. My Response: Again, your disagreement with my case doesn't make me scum. Worst case, I'm wrong. How is my "bad" case alignment indicative. Why would scum open themselves up to attacks by posting a lengthy case on someone like that? Scum have incentive to lie low, not to do what I did. 2) I call my scum read "wishy-washy" My Response: Yes, if I think someone is scum, I'm going to try and throw all the dirt I have and pursue that lynch with fervor. That's what I do as town. He was wishy-washy. He wasn't choosing a target. I called him out on that. In fact, you do exactly what you are accusing me of a few posts later! On July 29 2013 05:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
rofl. Tofu is wishy-washy as fuck regarding Paper. Maybe they are both scum. :D Talk about hypocrisy.
The whole day so far, rayn has been tunneling me. He warms up to a Paper lynch in as evidenced by this post. On July 29 2013 06:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 05:58 Clarity_nl wrote:
...
This makes sense to me, the scum perspective. As town it does not.
Low post count, low content, implying he's wrong yet pushing for it anyway.
He scum yo.
If you had looked into any recent game Malongo has played you would see that this is characteristic to his town play. In other words, the stuff you are pointing out does not make him mafia. You clearly do not want to lynch FT. Go look at JAT/Paper please. Koshi, what do you think of this: Show nested quote +hzflank - I had a big big red read on hzflank before this: "I did start to prepare a case on Oats yesterday but I cancelled it shortly after starting. As I was writing it I became less sure that Oats was scum and I did not want to post a case that I did not believe in myself. That is fairly normal for me as I seem to be good at convincing myself that someone is not scum." That basically proves that hzflank is town, that is so incredibly genuine. This feels like he wants to control the flow of the thread. He makes a few more posts asking people to look into these three people. Why does he specifically want these 3 targets? Really feels like scum trying to set up favorable alternatives to a lynch that would not lynch their own. See the following posts. On July 29 2013 06:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It's time to start consolidating people.
Anyone with no really good case should vote for FT/JAT/Paper and tell why the target is a best lynch. Do not discuss useless stuff, otherwise we'll end up with a no-lynch which is a big no no. On July 29 2013 06:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 06:21 VayneAuthority wrote:
I won't be here for the deadline then. What are my lynch options if I can't get vivax today? FT/Paper/JAT. He's telling numerous people EXACTLY who he wants them to look into thereby directing the course of the lynch. Suddenly, he votes Koshi out of the blue. On July 29 2013 07:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 07:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 29 2013 07:00 Koshi wrote:On July 29 2013 06:58 hzflank wrote:On July 29 2013 06:55 Koshi wrote:
Why are we ignoring Malongo? Do you want me to fully answer him now? His problem with me stems from philosophical differences regarding lynching lurkers. After that he clutches at straws. He seems to genuinely think that I am scum, though. I never responded to him earlier because until this page he talked about me and not too me, and since I have spent a lot of time replying to people doing that this game there was no town benefit to messing up the thread discussing philosophical differences. Do you want me to fully answer every point that you and Malongo just made? Unless there are more votes going to pile up for you I guess I don't see why you should. I still don't see why you think Paper is so scummy for the pas 40 hours though. lol, you don't want your top scumread to contribute? wtf, maybe we should lynch Koshi. To be more precise. You don't want your top scumread to contribute towards your other scumread. ##Unvote:
##Vote: KoshiThat's enough bullshit. Look how easily he changes his reads. He obviously still thinks I'm very scummy and Koshi has no one voting for him. Why would town rayn vote Koshi instead of me? I mean, did this post by rayn seriously change his mind so drastically that Koshi is now more scummy than anyone in the entire game? Then, he says the following... On July 29 2013 07:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think we should kill Koshi or Paper. Maybe FT is town after all. So now he thinks I'm town, and Koshi and/or Paper are scum. What a turnaround. What exactly changed his position? The posts in between this post and the last one are negligible. Then, he posts this. On July 29 2013 07:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 07:20 Vivax wrote:
Rayn, what do you make of PS pushing JAT.
I'm more sure of JAT being scum than PS, and that makes me pretty doubtful. I am not so sure about that any more tbh. I don't like the fact that either one of them has not been here for a very long time. On Paper i really didn't like his proposition to vig me or Stutters. I have clearly been unable to post and that is not alignment indicative. Stutters has good posts imo. If he thinks one of us is mafia, then vote for us instead of someone else. I think at that time his vote on JAT was just a "throwaway vote". The only thing that's fishy overall is that people are willing to discuss Paper but not JAT.What do you think about Koshi and his latest contributions? Bolded for emphasis. On July 29 2013 07:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
JAT is probably town btw. Why would he say these two things in quick succession? JAT is town even though no one wants to lynch him? When you yourself said that no one is talking about him? How is that a reasonable conclusion to arrive at as town? Why are you deliberately trying to clear JAT? On July 29 2013 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Can you guys just vote for Koshi please? Now he wants Koshi lynched more than anyone. Remember, the current highest wagon was on PS. He initially said both PS and Koshi would be fine lynches, but now he's saying Koshi is the only scum here. On July 29 2013 08:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Paperscraps has not claimed any role to lure out a cc / save him if he is mafia. That's incredibly bad scumplay to not claim a PR in a closed setup game. He has to be town. Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 08:19 FirmTofu wrote:On July 29 2013 08:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have a 95% feeling this lynch is gonna be a mislynch. I'll be back in 15min. Now sauna. Wait, what happened in between the last two pages that shifted your read so dramatically? You were pursuing Paper and now suddenly you think Koshi is confirmed scum? Paper got back and posted in a non-scum manner. Why am i not allowed to change my opinion? Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 08:23 Koshi wrote:
Let me explain how rayns thinks:
Koshi tunnels hzflank.
I think that hz is town.
Koshi must be scum.
I will tunnel Koshi.
My play looks perfect town. This is so wrong i don't even know what to say. To defend PS, he says PS would be bad scum to not RC. Therefore, he isn't scum. Why does he exclude the possibly that PS could be bad scum? After all, he is a newbie. This looks like an excuse by rayn to avoid being associated with a flip that he knows will flip town. On July 29 2013 08:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Koshi, FT, i dunno who else are scum. Now he's back on me. Nothing has happened in between that should cause him to change his reads with such volatility. On July 29 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:No, that makes no sense. If i knew Paper better and could tell 100% he is town we could no-lynch. But i can't. ##Unvote:
##Vote: PaperscrapsFuck you all. Chance of success 5%. At the last minute, he switches on to PS so that a lynch can go through. Obviously, he knows it will reflect poorly on him if he is the one to cause the no-lynch, so he decides to voice his objections while bandwagoning a lynch he knows will flip town. After the flip, no one suspects rayn because he was right all along.
Night 1 Rayn engages in a heated battle with Vivax about why Vivax unvoted. Then, surprisingly, reaches a sort of agreed-upon truce to "assume" the other one is town. Conveniently, rayn looks surprisingly OK after Vivax flips town. I think rayn made the truce so that he could kill him without taking any blame for it. He walks away and can just say he thought Vivax was town the whole time. No harm, no foul. Day 2 After Vivax dies, rayn pushes me again. More tunneling. This is an easy way to play the game for scum because no one expects them to look at anyone else. I'm a bit tired of quoting his filter now, so I might finish this up later.
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On July 31 2013 07:51 FirmTofu wrote:FT's Player ProfilesAlright, I've gotta catch a bus. I'm not done with a few people but as soon as I'm back home, I'll finish up. This is what I have so far. This stuff is straight out of the notes I've been compiling all game so some of it might be outdated. These profiles are by no means done. I'm just posting it because everyone pretty much knows where I stand on everything thus far and the more detailed analysis we get in this game, the better. + Show Spoiler [Oats] +Oats has a lot of posts where he pokes and prods various people for information. On July 27 2013 10:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
We should lynch the lurker with the least posts. Koshi is clearly not one of them. Clearly.
So Paperscraps, why is Day 1 hard to get solid reads as opposed to other days? On July 27 2013 10:43 Oatsmaster wrote:
fuck your rum.
I assume you dont want to lynch lurkers then CJS.
Why not? Do you think scum will not lurk at all?
On July 27 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 10:56 exarezee wrote:
This talk of lurkers is really confusing me. I mean, we SHOULD all know better than to do this. Why is this even being discussed? If someone falls for the "trap" it's mostly due to naivety than anything else. I think we should move the discussion along.
As I have not played with you guys before, it is difficult to make tonal reads on Day 1. I already find a few people scummy: koshi and paperscraps. But this is only a slight lean, as i realize some people just post more "scumlike" than others. What trap? Like what trap are you talking about? Do you like lurkers in town? CJS, I think that at least 1 or 2 scum will be labeled as a lurker and with only probably 3-4 town, its a much smaller pool to look at as opposed to all 14 people. On July 27 2013 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 11:26 exarezee wrote:
We're obviously not going to lynch a lurker Day 1. To do so would be a terrible play on the collective town's part. If we assume that it's a bad play to lynch a lurker, why are we discussing it? Do you want me to elaborate on why lynching a lurker is bad?
I said I have a slight scum read based on gut instinct and feel. I bunch this together into tonal reads. But like I said, it's very slight as I have not played with the players before. There is no need for me to start throwing evidence on people at the beginning of Day 1 (to be exact there is little evidence). My posts have been much better than some of the fluff already being made. I mean, I can go into more detail why I think koshi and paperscraps have posted more scumlike than others who have posted...but that post can wait. Lynching a lurker is awesome. Have you never seen lurkers flip scum? So are you definetely not going to lynch a lurker then, why is lynching a lurker bad? Makes a case on JAT. On July 28 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote:yup justanothertownie dude is scum. Look at his first post. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 20:13 justanothertownie wrote:
I don't like Paperscraps. First he joins the lurker discussion without adding any content, then he starts to jump on exarezee without any good reason (I'm not really convinced that it was just a joke) and when he gets a little heat for it he totally backs off. I really hate this:
justanothertownie thinks its not a joke. But he doesnt explain why scum would do it, summerizes Paperscraps actions and just says its scummy. Scum take jokes seriously cause they play the game seriously. Show nested quote +TLDR; Besides the first question on my first post, I haven't been serious at all. So this is not serious at all?
Lurkers are liabilities later in the game. I don't have a problem with taking them out sooner, rather than later. If you are stuck in a potential mylo/lylo situation with a lurker, it is no fun. Of course, if some one is overly scummy we should lynch them first.
extreme nitpicking here, clearly paperscraps was using generalization and notice that justanothertownie just throws shit on him without explain how or why its scummy. Like pointing out supposed bad posts without explain why. scumtell. Show nested quote +
Also I'm annoyed by CJS. Going through his filter I can't find anything valuable - he just didn't say anything until this point (apart from fluff).
Ok look at his thoughts on CJS, I assume he is leaning null scummy. In his very next post commenting on CJS post, his view drastically changes. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 23:19 justanothertownie wrote:
##Captain: Captain Jack Sparrow
You earned it with your last post. I have to agree with you - Oats and Vayne both did not post useful things as of now. looks like he wants to sheep CJS, off this horrific Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 23:08 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:On July 27 2013 12:00 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:
Scum! I see one!
##Vote: Oatsmaster My vote still stands, and I believe that it is the correct one for this situation. Oatsmaster is acting like scum. He is refusing to give us any decent information whatsoever, just mucking up the thread with sarcastic one-liners and not giving us any insight on his opinions or anything. He is the perfect example of scum trying to blend in and be in the conversation, yet his words hold no meaning and are merely just filler. If you take them out, his filter is left with: On July 25 2013 21:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Normal or not man
/in And that, my friends, is not someone I want to give rum to. accusations without anything to back them up with. contradictions and shit, way over generalization. And it makes justanormaltownie want to sheep him? I dont buy it, justanormaltownie wants to support this set of lynches/lynch and see if I could possibly be mislynched. ##vote: justanormaltownie Doesn't look particularly alignment indicative, but seems to be calling him out on newbie mistakes that town and scum could both make. On July 28 2013 01:04 Oatsmaster wrote:CJS is totally town. Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 00:43 justanothertownie wrote:On July 28 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote:yup justanothertownie dude is scum. Look at his first post. On July 27 2013 20:13 justanothertownie wrote:
I don't like Paperscraps. First he joins the lurker discussion without adding any content, then he starts to jump on exarezee without any good reason (I'm not really convinced that it was just a joke) and when he gets a little heat for it he totally backs off. I really hate this:
justanothertownie thinks its not a joke. But he doesnt explain why scum would do it, summerizes Paperscraps actions and just says its scummy. Scum take jokes seriously cause they play the game seriously. So town doesn't play the game seriously? That's a weird stance to take. I think Paperscraps just saw an opportunity to park his vote without having to give a reason. Conveniently FirmTofu had just voted for exarezee shortly before. On July 28 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote:TLDR; Besides the first question on my first post, I haven't been serious at all. So this is not serious at all?
Lurkers are liabilities later in the game. I don't have a problem with taking them out sooner, rather than later. If you are stuck in a potential mylo/lylo situation with a lurker, it is no fun. Of course, if some one is overly scummy we should lynch them first.
extreme nitpicking here, clearly paperscraps was using generalization and notice that justanothertownie just throws shit on him without explain how or why its scummy. Like pointing out supposed bad posts without explain why. scumtell. Yes, he is generalising. He isn't saying anything new and doesn't take a stance on the subject at hand which is scummy in itself but even if it wasn't it is definitely not meant as a joke. He contradicts himself. Concerning CJS i was leaning null/scummy that's correct. The reason for this was his filter which showed nothing but fluff. He then went on and posted an accurate statement about Vayne and you (you both didn't contribute anything useful up to this point in time) which i quite liked and which therefore slightly changed my opinion of him. Why exactly is this a scumtell for you? And no, i don't want to sheep CJS in the slightest. I won't do anything like that and your point about this is just garbage. Just because I agree with one of his posts doesn't mean I want to sheep him - you are just pulling that out of your ass. So you think Paper is town? What about CJS? Town dont care how they look so they play around right. Scum care how they look so they dont. And therefore because they dont play around, they tend to pick out joking posts as scummy, one part because without context, its scummy so any easy reason, and another part is that they just dont see the joke. So why would scum vote so carelessly early game? He knows that exarezee is reletively active at that point and probably wont get lynched so why put yourself in the spotlight that way. Random votes like that are strong towntells and you not seeing it and insisting you are right is scummy. Papers is in no way contradicting himself, he says lynch lurkers sure, but if he has a strong scum read on a non lurker, lynch that dude first. HOW IN THE FUCKING WORLD IS THAT A CONTRADICTION? pulling shit out of your ass to make your point here. About your 180 on CJS. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 23:19 justanothertownie wrote:
##Captain: Captain Jack Sparrow
You earned it with your last post. I have to agree with you - Oats and Vayne both did not post useful things as of now. "i have to agree with you" Is that not sheeping? You havent provided any of your own reasons why me or Vayne are scum, but you have scumreads on us because of that one LOUSY FUCKING POST that CJS posted. What made you so convinced that CJS was not scum from that post justanothertownie? Another tunnel-ish post by Oats. Starting to feel town. The case he made on me. On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 19:11 hzflank wrote:
After reading Tofu's filter I am going to have to decline at this point. He actually looks a lot more town in his filter than he does in the thread (or at least my read on him has changed after some rereads of his posts). To me it actually looks like Tofu is trying to open the game up for scum-hunters.
I realize that your post is not serious, Clarity, however I would appreciate it if you could tell us if you actually have a reason for a wagon on Tofu. I'm not quite sure what that means. "looks a lot more town in his filter than he does in the thread"? Could you explain? Anyway, disagree completely with your conclusion which you reached a full 7 minutes after I asked (excluding when you actually read my post and made your own) _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 09:54 FirmTofu wrote:
Yeah, I dunno what you guys are doing fluffing up the thread with fluff and general bullshit but It's be great if we could discuss the game now. FirmTofu would like us all to actually discuss the game, instead of all this fluff that's going on, like everyone talking about the lurker lynch policy! Granted, this post might have been in context with Koshi's 1,2,3 posts, but that was Koshi trying to prove a point. Firmtofu before this point however, did not discuss anything other than lurker lynch policy: + Show Spoiler +On July 27 2013 09:25 FirmTofu wrote:Okay, I'm back on a computer. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 09:01 Vivax wrote:
Hi guys, I propose that we lynch the lurkiest guy D1.Obviously if someone looks really scummy then we lynch him first, but if that's not the case then we lynch the guy with the least posts. I think scum really likes to post as few as possible.
I know that's gonna look kinda scummy, but I'm going to bed now. Gn! This comes up every game. How scummy does someone have to be for you to want to lynch them over a lurker? You have to consider that lynching lurkers provides very little information whereas lynching scummy people might tell us a lot about how people are related to one another. On July 27 2013 09:40 FirmTofu wrote:
To all of you that are out there...
Do you think policy lynching a lurker day 1 is a good idea? Why or why not? On July 27 2013 09:41 FirmTofu wrote:
Personally, I think we should use it as a last resort. Lynch a lurker only if
1) Half the town is lurking
or
2) All the active people look genuinely helpful/useful and none of them look like good lynches. Shitting on town, regardless of if you're being a hypocrite or not, is something scum love doing. Then there is the useless vote with an easy out, classic scum: Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 11:37 FirmTofu wrote:On July 27 2013 11:35 exarezee wrote:
@FirmTofu
I'd rather wait until more posts are made. I think only 6 or 7 of the players in the game have posted so far. If you're going to wait, then I'm going to have to vote you until you do. ##Vote: exarezeeYou can't simply say you have scumreads and not explain them. "I am voting for you, and I will keep my vote on you until you do X!" This is not a vote to kill scum, this is a vote to have a vote on someone, and he backs off the moment his demands are met. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 13:31 FirmTofu wrote:
##Unvote
I'm not sure that the case on paperscraps has much substance to it, but at least it's something. Not only does he back off the moment he's able to, he's also wishy-washy about the case itself. But the most troubling things I found were his last two posts: Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 13:39 FirmTofu wrote:
If I had to lynch someone right now, it would be CJS. All of his posts are filled with fluff and he has a random vote on Oats. I'm hating having to decipher all of his wordplay in his posting.
Paperscraps would not be a bad lynch for similar reasons. I'm not as convinced as I am for CJS, but suspicion is still there.
Right now, exarezee is looking pretty town. Notice how he explains that he's having a hard time reading CJS because of his roleplay, and Paperscraps would be a good lynch too because he's hard to read. That's all well and good, pressure them to be more easier to read, but the mindset is revealed in the part I bolded. He first claims that if he had to lynch someone it would be CJS or Paper because they're currently hard to read, but now he's suddenly saying he's suspicious that they're scum? why? Then he throws a random unsolicited townread into his post, because scum love giving townreads. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 13:41 FirmTofu wrote:
I want to hear more from stutters and the people who haven't posted yet. For all we know, the entire mafia team could be in that group of people. This post is the epitome of useless. Instead of focusing on the information we do have, Firm decides to point out that there's no point in scumhunting because for all we know all the people who haven't posted are scum. FirmTofu is pretty likely scum and our best lynch right now. I don't think scum would be the first to form a case on anyone. It draws too much attention and isn't necessary early in the game. On July 28 2013 02:40 Clarity_nl wrote:
I mean, I find the thing FirmTofu just did kinda hard to fake.
Like, I guess if you're superscum it's like a mindgame thing, but if that were the case why did he seem so scummy in the first 12 hours.
##Unvote
Am actually gonna be gone for a couple of hours but shall return later, look forward to hearing from Malongo. Unvotes after reading my response to the case and the "townslip" that makes me look town. I don't think scum would drop a case this easily. If Clarity was scum, I'd expect him to tunnel me a little longer. Most of CJS' early posting was Pirates roleplay. I'm ignoring most of that. On July 27 2013 23:08 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 12:00 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:
Scum! I see one!
##Vote: Oatsmaster My vote still stands, and I believe that it is the correct one for this situation. Oatsmaster is acting like scum. He is refusing to give us any decent information whatsoever, just mucking up the thread with sarcastic one-liners and not giving us any insight on his opinions or anything. He is the perfect example of scum trying to blend in and be in the conversation, yet his words hold no meaning and are merely just filler. If you take them out, his filter is left with: And that, my friends, is not someone I want to give rum to. This post looks like something town would say. Calling someone out for trying to blend in. I disagree with the conclusion, but I think the move is townie. On July 27 2013 23:35 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 23:33 exarezee wrote:
I forgot to address your other point hzflank.
I think I've stated who is more likely to be scum by the small case I put on paperscraps and the fact that I voted for him.
Why is me advocating the 2 wagons bad? I feel like I will get a lot of useful information regardless of how they turn. My scum lean on paperscraps isn't even that strong...and if he actually was joking then it's a very slight lean. Still, based on their interactions with me and their voting history on Day 1, I firmly believe that one of those two is scum. Then why do you not vote for FirmTofu? You just said that you think they are both scum and that you want to vote for them, but you don't think paperscraps is as scummy as FirmTofu. So your vote should be clear. Why is it not clear to you then? Calls out hzflank on his misplaced intentions. I REALLY like this post. CJS is looking for scum motivation here. Looks like active scumhunting. On July 27 2013 23:42 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 23:39 exarezee wrote:On July 27 2013 23:35 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:On July 27 2013 23:33 exarezee wrote:
I forgot to address your other point hzflank.
I think I've stated who is more likely to be scum by the small case I put on paperscraps and the fact that I voted for him.
Why is me advocating the 2 wagons bad? I feel like I will get a lot of useful information regardless of how they turn. My scum lean on paperscraps isn't even that strong...and if he actually was joking then it's a very slight lean. Still, based on their interactions with me and their voting history on Day 1, I firmly believe that one of those two is scum. Then why do you not vote for FirmTofu? You just said that you think they are both scum and that you want to vote for them, but you don't think paperscraps is as scummy as FirmTofu. So your vote should be clear. Why is it not clear to you then? Are you trolling me? I never said that I think they are both scum. If it was voting deadline right now, I'd vote paper first, and tofu 2nd. I don't think paperscraps is as scumy as FirmTofu. WTF? have you been reading my posts or just making things up in your head. You said that you think at least one of them as scum. So that would mean that you are trying to figure out who is scummier? I bolded two sentences in your post which contradict each other. You would rather vote paperscraps first, but you think FirmTofu is scummier. Am I missing something? Again, calls people our for their misplaced intentions. Very town move. On July 28 2013 01:11 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:Right now, I'm leaning towards you being scum. I'm trying to figure out whether Vayne is stupid or scum, and I'm leaning towards stupid. I'd also like to point out that a lot of people have not posted to a satisfactory level, and any one of them could be scum lurking in the shadows. We have quite a ways to go before anyone dies, so a lot of things can change. Read on Vayne slightly changes based on a short exchange between them. This shows he is adapting based on new information. On July 28 2013 14:29 Malongo wrote:Sparrow pfff another smurf. So far in the inactive players I see 5. raynpelikoneet
7. Malongo
9. Stutters695In the hyper-activity side I see: 1. Oatsmaster
4. IMCaptainJackSparrow
10. hzflank
14. exarezeeEveryone else is meh-activity wise. So far my best pick is hzflank I really didnt like this post from hzflank: Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 21:46 hzflank wrote:
Yes I would lynch a lurker today. However, I dislike beginning the day with the thought of lynching a lurker. I think the best thing on day 1 would be for at least 3 wagons to form before we even thinking about consolidating (or lynching a lurker). If enough cases are made then there is more chance that one of them is a case against scum and the scum team may react to that. It is hard to make a good case against a lurker, so I would prefer cases against active people to be discussed first. The think about starting the day lynching a lurker ise c to force the players to post and force the mafia to make mistakes. I rather start the day forcing lurkers to post than "looking for 2/3 wagons" earlier. Earlier wagons are more likely to be town (in my experience) and the lurker lynching stays aside. Trying to get early wagons is also a good way to close the fence early wich help the mafia more than the town. His vote so far on Paperscraps is really weak and when I read his filter I found it really reactive (or defensive as he put it). ##Vote: hzflankId be happy to lynch CJS for no reason too ( I just hate attention-smurfs ). I've played with town Malongo a few times and he NEVER does this type of stuff. Can't tell if his meta is changing or he is scum trying to look pro-town. The list by activity is utterly useless. The case on hzflank is meager, but it does establish his stance on the lynch. On July 29 2013 06:44 Malongo wrote:This is hzflank on Paper: Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 00:20 hzflank wrote:The Paperscraps came from a Scum-Tree Paper rejoins the game with a big post that is basically just a list of town reads. He does not provide particularly good reasons for his town reads. This is scummy through and through. I dont care about a list of his town reads, I want to know who he thinks is scum. + Show Spoiler +On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:I have finally caught up! I wrote down some reads as I was catching up. First off I need to say some stuff about my play early on. I get why people would find me scummy so far, tone and sarcasm are hard to convey in text. This is why I will play a more standard game from now on. It isn't helping people find scum, if they are looking at me for joking and being sarcastic and not understanding that is all it is. hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground. exarezee null - The argument of either Tofu or I having to be scum strikes me as odd. I don't see any interactions between FT and I, that would merit this stance. I would like a more in-depth analysis of this pairing. One thing that bugs me about exarezee is that he has reacted in a "noob" fashion to the two early votes on him. With his 100+ games played on the poker forums, which I have no reason to doubt, I just can't see why he would react so defensively. I am probably over thinking my read on exarezee, but I don't see him flipping scum at the moment, due his push on me which holds no substance and his reaction. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. Clarity leaning town - Nothing really to elaborate on Clarity so far, I doubt most of the players would disagree. One great interaction I found so far was this. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 22:47 hzflank wrote:On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote:
I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1.
I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here. How is that post in any way more useful to town than to scum? You think that Paper and Tofu should be the two lynch candidates but do not state which of them is most likely to be scum. If they are both town then having them be the primary lynch candidates would be great for scum. If one of them is actually scum then you posting that without saying which one you think is scum is really not useful, as if one of them flips town you are in a position where you should assume that the other is scum, which give you a really easy excuse to vote for them if you are in fact scum. Basically, telling us which single person you want to lynch is good. Telling us that you want the votes to be between two specific people is really bad. Which of them is most likely to be scum? This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. CapJackSparrow null - I totally dig his RP gimmick so far and I am biased toward him in a good way. I want to say I lean town on him, but I would hold judgement on his alignment for now. Tofu null - I don't think his push on exarezee is the best. It seems to be grasping. The thing with making cases in general is you can always twist and skew people's filter to whatever you think is right. Initially I leaned town on FT, but after his case I retract that some what. Vayne leaning town - not sure what to think of vayne as of yet, he comes in every so often and drops some knowledge. I think his vote on clarity is pretty bad though. His filter strikes me as town though. Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far. I am going to read some filters more in-depth and meditate on what I have come up with so far. I don't have a strong scum read at the moment. Also I realize I haven't commented on some people who have posted, the reads above were what stuck out to me most on my initial read through. How can that be mafia if the game had just started? You expect something like a paper on who is mafia based on 10 pages of posts? guy addressed one by one each player and you get angry because he doesnt respond directly to youShow nested quote +I already pointed out a specific thing that I did not like about this, which can be seen in this exchange. I encourage you all to read it from post 493 to 503. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=25#493Paper's excuse for the inconstancy was that he did not read properly, but it was not one of those moments where you can tell that he was obviously being truthful. Paper refused to answer any of my questions. How am I possibly supposed to get a town read on him when he does not answer my questions? If Paper were town then he would of answered them as honestly as possible. Also, what does this actually tell us? It's pure fluff in an attempt to pad a post that contains zero useful information for town. This is a lie as proof you can actually find the exchange that he actually answers you directly: Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 18:25 Paperscraps wrote:On July 28 2013 18:03 hzflank wrote:On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:
hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground.
Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far.
Oats' read on me was almost the exact opposite of your read on me. You cannot say that you liked the still liked the reasoning for Oats' read on me because he reasoning was mostly not reading my filter properly and a little philosophical differences. Exactly which Oats reads and posts were great? What do you perceive Oats' 'comprehension of what is going on' to be? Maybe I am missing something, but reading through Oats' filter he doesn't push on you. He doesn't even directly call you scum. I am not sure what you are looking for here. I believe what he has said about you so far is decent. I really don't see how it contradicts my read. Stepping on toes = abrasive. Is your gripe with him calling you defensive? Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:
This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. Show nested quote +
In general I have no idea how Paper even arrived at the useless town reads in that post because he did not explain them in a townie way.
So actually you are telling that you dont understand Paper so he is not town. See the logic flaw?Show nested quote +In addition, when Paper is pushed and finally gives us a scum read it is this: On July 28 2013 13:32 Paperscraps wrote:On July 28 2013 12:57 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:
Also @Paper,
I would like a scumread, if you are still around. You had promised one to me, yet you don't give me one...and everyone calls me untrustworthy... Right now I would lynch Vivax followed by JAT. Vivax's push on Vayne seems like an excuse to just put a vote up. JAT hasn't added anything new to the thread. He has just regurgitated other people's FoSes in his own words. The only good thing JAT has done is nominate Jack for captain,  I would like rayn and Malongo to post more, before I actually made a decision. Also I disagree on your read of Oats, I think he has contributed and I lean town on him. You should read through Vayne's filter, he posts some really good stuff if you look for it. I don't see him flipping scum right now. He gives us a single sentence as to why he wants to lynch Vivax. A single sentence in a game with 400+ posts to use for information. Then he adds a second scum read. He never actually pushes either of these reads at all. Not once does he even direct a post at Vivax or JAT. Well actually his one sentence makes more sense to me than these case. He calls Vivax directly lurker because there was no reason behind his vote.Show nested quote +
Paper later says that he has changed his mind about me and thinks I may be scum. I engage him in conversation (linked above) and he does not even try to push his read on me at all. If Paper actually had a scum read on me then why did that conversation go as it did?
How is that in any ways indicative of mafia? if something he liked your own way to be abrasive. Show nested quote +
How is any of this not scummy? How can people be saying that Paper's filter looks town?
What? most people look at Paper as null towards townie, I dont see anyone calling him town. What I am sure is your post is really forced towards Paper This case is a lot better and appears near the lynch. The lie he caught hzflank in is especially interesting. More importantly, this establishes Malongo as someone who was AGAINST the Paper lynch but FOR the hzflank lynch. If Paper flips town, Malongo looks good. If Paper flips scum, this could be a possible teammate. On July 29 2013 22:39 Malongo wrote:
hz is top of tops to me. Next to him active lurkers like JAT and VA should be put in line asap. I read a lot of inconsistency in Vivax and I found it odd that you are/were pushing so hard on Koshi who is town from my perspective. but neither of those things look alligment indicative to me. Post-lynch consistency On July 30 2013 09:41 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote:
I have a guilty check on malongo.
awaiting his response! If there is no miller there is no chance in hell you are telling the truth. Vigi on me asap, clear the vigi you and me, im green. This is an odd response. Why didn't he ask vigi to hit Vayne? After all, if he knows Vayne is lying, shouldn't he assume he is scum? On July 31 2013 00:20 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 00:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 31 2013 00:13 Malongo wrote:On July 30 2013 23:36 exarezee wrote:On July 30 2013 09:41 Malongo wrote:On July 30 2013 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote:
I have a guilty check on malongo.
awaiting his response! If there is no miller there is no chance in hell you are telling the truth. Vigi on me asap, clear the vigi you and me, im green. This is a very very strange statement to make. It looks like a forced response believing Vayne's check on him. "If there is no miller..." line looks completely made up. How does one not know what possible roles are in the game. Furthermore let's assume he truly doesn't know the possible roles, why question whether there is a miller, and then your plan of action is dependent upon there being a vig? Why don't you say, "if there a vig, kill me asap." i'm probably going to vote malongo today just for this response. it looks egregiously bad to me. You are actively ignoring that hzflak and Clarity confirmed no millers 6 or 8 posts before mine. At that point I had little time to add to much and honestly I have never seen a mafia game with 0 vigis int TL. Have you?. I am ready to answer any questions. Why did you want the vigilante to shoot you instead of the guy who fakeclaimed a check on you and you know it? Because i am green townie and in this position I have little to no chance to know what is happening behind the scenes. My real initial guess was "player x contacted VA and claimed a positive check". VA has no other chance but to call me out behind a lie. I think all the time VA is blue because of his posting... so if I ask a hit on VA and goes on is a lot worse than a hit on me. This is really weird. Malongo thinks pms are allowed? lol wtf? What a conspiracy theory. Probably town at this point, but has some really weird posts. Starts off with a bunch of stupid joke posts trying to look scummy? Really weird play. On July 29 2013 06:16 VayneAuthority wrote:
##unvote
##vote:vivax
playing like he does as scum. Long winded light on content posts, trying to get people mislynched for trivial things, and readjusting course when it doesn't work. If he's not scum I will need to re-assess my thoughts on his play. Meta argument by Vayne. Flimsy justification. Don't really like this post at all. On July 30 2013 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote:
I have a guilty check on malongo.
awaiting his response! Now that we know that this was a fakeclaim, I just don't see scum pulling this kind of move. On July 30 2013 09:49 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 09:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote:
##Vote: justanothertownie
I agree with your conclusion on JAT. Why the fuck did you fakeclaim if town? to get some concrete reads, I have been barely reading the thread since it was just a bunch of useless stuff. I added in my own useless reads. Time to start playing for real This feels exactly like something town Vayne would do/say. He was an asshole like this in Nuclear Winter and he was town in that game. Feels town here too. On July 27 2013 17:21 hzflank wrote:First impressions: I do not like how much discussion there has been about lurkers. The first post was palatable, but the fact that so many people decided to focus the conversation on it created an environment that benefits scum more than town. To talk about lurking policy properly would require a conversation about mafia-theory and philosophy, which is a conversation that allows scum to both hide easily and setup town-town wagons on day one. Paperscraps is the scummiest player to have posted so far. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 10:38 Paperscraps wrote:
As in any other game of limited information. Day 1 has the least amount of material to draw from and thus is harder to deduce a solid fos.
That does not mean that you should find a fence to sit on. There are many pro-town things that you could be doing on day 1 even if you have a hard time forming good scum reads. This post is so scummy, as it is just throwing mud for no good reason. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 12:43 Paperscraps wrote:Im just going to lurk for the rest of the day, since exarezee has deemed lurkers unlynchable. It is a full proof strategy guys. If you are mafia, just lurk from now on. You won't get lynched. I did not like this post by Tofu as I cannot tell whether he is actually prodding or looking for a soft target. The bolded part is what puts a scummy tone on the post. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 11:11 FirmTofu wrote:On July 27 2013 10:56 exarezee wrote:
This talk of lurkers is really confusing me. I mean, we SHOULD all know better than to do this. Why is this even being discussed? If someone falls for the "trap" it's mostly due to naivety than anything else. I think we should move the discussion along.
As I have not played with you guys before, it is difficult to make tonal reads on Day 1. I already find a few people scummy: koshi and paperscraps. But this is only a slight lean, as i realize some people just post more "scumlike" than others. What? You don't want to discuss it? Are you deliberately trying to stifle discussion?If you don't want to talk about this, then what DO you want to talk about? Also, you are just naming people without saying why you find them scummy. Please explain why. Your suspicions mean nothing unless you elaborate on them. Exarzee is almost as town as anyone can be at this stage of the game. The only thing I did not like was: Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 11:35 exarezee wrote:
@FirmTofu
I'd rather wait until more posts are made. I think only 6 or 7 of the players in the game have posted so far. There are good town reasons for withholding a read for a few hours or until a particular person has posted, however the reason given above by Exarzee is not a good town reason. I am willing to let it slide due to some of his other posts being very town. This post by Rayn is not scummy, but I want to point it out because I do not think that anyone should be encouraged to sheep. Sheeping generally helps scum more than town. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 16:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am just going to say that i'll be home in around ~10-12 hours so don't waste time on discussing my alignment before i start playing.
Oats is most likely town and should be listened to. To finish, I liked the way that a lot of votes were thrown around early and I see benefit in continuing to do this, as it will provide extra information in the future. Since I think that Paperscraps is the scummiest player so far: ##vote: Paperscraps Makes a case on Paper pretty early in the game. It has some decent points. Feels like it's coming from town. On July 27 2013 17:57 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 09:55 Paperscraps wrote:
I don't have a problem with taking them out sooner, rather than later. If you are stuck in a potential mylo/lylo situation with a lurker, it is no fun. Of course, if some one is overly scummy we should lynch them first.
Day 1 lynches are always interesting though. It is hard to get solid reads and judge interactions between players.
That is not taking a stance. Taking a stance would be “I am going to vote for anyone who lurks”. Saying that you will vote for a lurker unless someone else is scummier and then going on to say that it is hard to get solid reads on day 1 is not taking a stance. I do not think that being afraid to say what to do with lurkers is a scum tell. I do think that attempting to mimic thread sentiment is a scum tell. This is a good post. It follows up on his scum read and clarifies his position on a few issues. On July 27 2013 19:44 hzflank wrote:I am not going to defend the points you have raised against Tofu as that is his job and not mine. I do not like the fact that you start your case on Tofu with an attack on me based on the timing of my post. If I happen to be at my computer then 7 minutes is more than enough time to read your post, read Tofu's filter, consider it and make my own short post. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm not quite sure what that means. "looks a lot more town in his filter than he does in the thread"? Could you explain?
After my initial two reads of the thread I was aware of a post from Tofu that I thought was scummy. It was this post: Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 11:11 FirmTofu wrote:On July 27 2013 10:56 exarezee wrote:
This talk of lurkers is really confusing me. I mean, we SHOULD all know better than to do this. Why is this even being discussed? If someone falls for the "trap" it's mostly due to naivety than anything else. I think we should move the discussion along.
As I have not played with you guys before, it is difficult to make tonal reads on Day 1. I already find a few people scummy: koshi and paperscraps. But this is only a slight lean, as i realize some people just post more "scumlike" than others. What? You don't want to discuss it? Are you deliberately trying to stifle discussion? If you don't want to talk about this, then what DO you want to talk about? Also, you are just naming people without saying why you find them scummy. Please explain why. Your suspicions mean nothing unless you elaborate on them. I didn't like this at all. It looks like he is worried about being associated with me. Why? Only scum should be afraid of associations. Town just dismisses them as impossible because they know they are town. On July 27 2013 20:19 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 20:16 Clarity_nl wrote:
My case on FT begins after I reply to your post.
There is even a giant ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ inbetween
So... what association are you talking about? The association between Tofu and I. There is no good reason to clutter your case on Tofu with shit against me unless you think there may be an association. The only time I (as town) have ever talked shit about one person in a case against another person is when I thought that they were both scum. Again, he brings up this "association" by posting. Seems rather silly to be so worried about something so trivial. On July 27 2013 21:20 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 21:11 Clarity_nl wrote:
You're saying that if I had replied to your post in a seperate post, and then posted the case afterwards, that completely changes everything?
You're saying that I, as scum, replied to you in the same post as my case on tofu so that you, as town, would feel enticed to defend tofu? Which accomplishes what?
But then you're also saying that I, as scum, did that so that my case would be "less likely to attract votes"?
Please explain what the thing is that "makes me look scummy" No. It would of changed everything if you had posted your reasons for thinking that Tofu is scum before you asked for other people's opinions. It is scummy to test the waters before you actually post a case. Me defending Tofu makes it harder for town to get a read on Tofu based on his own defence. Therefore, when writing a case the ideal scenario is for the person to defend the case themselves before other people comment too much on it. In this case that was not possible due to time zones, but by discounting my reasons for thinking Tofu is town as you gave the reasons as to why Tofu is scum you made it more likely that I would defend Tofu. That is scummy. On second thoughts, your case being less likely to attract votes is not a scum tell on you. Why did you suggest a wagon on Tofu before you actually posted the reasons for it? This post is interesting. He says he knows he shouldn't be defending me, so he's not going to. However, all of his last few posts have been soft-defenses of me mainly because Clarity soft-associated us with each other. I don't like hzflank's response to this situation at all. On July 27 2013 23:24 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 23:21 exarezee wrote:On July 27 2013 22:47 hzflank wrote:On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote:
I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1.
I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here. How is that post in any way more useful to town than to scum? You think that Paper and Tofu should be the two lynch candidates but do not state which of them is most likely to be scum. If they are both town then having them be the primary lynch candidates would be great for scum. If one of them is actually scum then you posting that without saying which one you think is scum is really not useful, as if one of them flips town you are in a position where you should assume that the other is scum, which give you a really easy excuse to vote for them if you are in fact scum. Basically, telling us which single person you want to lynch is good. Telling us that you want the votes to be between two specific people is really bad. Which of them is most likely to be scum? It's a useful post for those who think I'm town and several people do. it's also useful to have a nice concise argument that one of those two is scum for if/when i die and turn up town. But which of them do you think is most likely scum? If I were scum I would love to see a town post that he would like the vote to be between a specific two people. So to me either your post was more useful to scum than to town, or you are scum. I am leaning towards the former, so please answer the question. These questions to exarezee are making me feel townish on hz again. He's asking what's important. "Why are you waffling on two people you find scummy. Why not choose one and stick with it?" Paraphrased, obviously. On July 27 2013 23:48 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 23:33 exarezee wrote:
I forgot to address your other point hzflank.
I think I've stated who is more likely to be scum by the small case I put on paperscraps and the fact that I voted for him.
Why is me advocating the 2 wagons bad? I feel like I will get a lot of useful information regardless of how they turn. My scum lean on paperscraps isn't even that strong...and if he actually was joking then it's a very slight lean. Still, based on their interactions with me and their voting history on Day 1, I firmly believe that one of those two is scum. Because scum want two town wagons on day 1. Town only wants to find one scum as the chance of actually finding multiple scum on day 1 is very slim. If a scum member is under pressure and cannot deal with it alone then the simplest and easiest thing for the scum team to do is to ignore that person and secure two other lynch candidates. If town start saying that we want to lynch two specific people then it makes it too easy for scum to steer us into a mislynch without being noticed. If you think that they are both scum that is fine, but don't do anything resembling pushing for lynches on them both at the same time. I really liked this post. Looks like he's proactively stating his stance on the lynch situation and why he thinks pushing multiple wagons at the same time is scummy. On July 29 2013 00:17 Koshi wrote:
##vote : hzflank
I will put my vote on the person that is actively posting and I find the most scummy.
Reasons:
1) Disagree on Paper
2) Posting habit is equal to a previous game with hzflank. Such a good scumplayer, got killed by SK that game because he looked the most town with a lot of people left.
This is a respect vote if you like. I am checking in every so many minutes for questions. A very early vote on hzflank. Pretty flimsy case, but like Malongo, it establishes his motivation for his choice around lynchtime. On July 28 2013 23:33 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 23:17 Clarity_nl wrote:On July 28 2013 23:11 Koshi wrote:On July 28 2013 17:02 Clarity_nl wrote:Malongo are you serious right now? Koshi, + Show Spoiler +do you have any scumreads at all? Other then saying that JAtownie "looks bad" I don't really see it. And even this accusation of him looking bad is after Oats posted a giant case on him.... On July 28 2013 01:26 Koshi wrote:
Let's talk people that look bad atm.
justanothertownie
Horrible first post.
Horrible second post.
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You only give your reasons for suspecting him of being scum after you have a townread on him. On July 28 2013 04:41 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 04:26 justanothertownie wrote:On July 28 2013 04:19 FirmTofu wrote:On July 28 2013 04:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
FT, thoughts on justanothertownie? Give me some time yo. Well, my filter isn't exactly huge.... I would like to repeat my earlier request: On July 28 2013 02:20 justanothertownie wrote:
Would you mind explaining why i am on your lynch list koshi? Why do you think my posts are so bad? Please explain yourself. You just stated I am scummy and provided absolutely no reasoning for that to be the case. Other than that you aren't scumhunting at all... Oh I missed that question earlier. I was wrong about you. I don't think you are scummy anymore. I thought you were scummy because of your first 2 posts. But now it seems more like you didn't had a good feel into this game yet and tried your luck with making 2 cases. I am actually leaning town on you now. Other than this, you've posted your "willing to lynch" lists but they have basically been JAtownie and a bunch of lurkers/non-posters.... and vayne who is trolling. Who do you currently want to lynch? In one of my first games I didn't know what to do so I started out with making 2 cases, both cases were horrible because I was new to the game, and I received a decent amount of flak for it. But I continued playing trying to learn and post 1 liners to help town. I see the same in JAT currently. My fav lynch target can be found in the lists I make and will make. Okay, and that's cute and innocent and stuff but being wrong does not a scum make. Go scumhunt, find scum. Making a list of 5 people which includes 4 lurkers and the current thread sentiment target, and then taking back the suspicion on the current thread sentiment target, does not make for a useful list. Who do you currently want to lynch, and why? One name, couple of reasons. C'mon My current lynchpool: raynpelikoneet Malongo VayneAuthority Stutters695 I have put ??? after these players but I can let them live another day: hzflank On July 29 2013 01:19 Koshi wrote:
People Koshi wants to lynch
1. hzflank
2. Stutters
3. VA
People Koshi can agree upon:
4.Malongo
People Koshi won't lynch ever:
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I am REALLY hating these lists by Koshi. They aren't helping town and it looks like he is just trying to come off as prot-own without actually contributing. On July 29 2013 08:07 Koshi wrote:
##unvote
##vote: Paperscraps Does this near lynchtime because not enough people want to lynch hzflank. He says he prefers lynch to no-lynch. On July 29 2013 09:26 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 09:24 justanothertownie wrote:
Now we at least have a flip + voting patterns to analyse. We could have had that if we knew that Paper was 99% town. Enough people knew paper was town in the end, we could have ignored the tunnelers, but with majority lynch, their might have been too many people disliking the no lynch. Maybe even me. Nha, removing the vote was terrible Vivax. Truly terrible. But meh, you will prove you aren't scum. I don't like this in light of Vivax flipping town. It looks like Koshi might have had known Vivax's alignment pre-death? I don't know why a scum Koshi would kill Vivax though. On July 29 2013 20:28 Koshi wrote:
So hz believes 2 complete different things at the same time.
1) Koshi and Paper are scum
2) Koshi is pushing paper lynch because Koshi thinks paper is town
Which is impossible. And pretty close to impossible to think as a town player. Koshi brings up a good point here. Hzflank's reads of Paper and Koshi are incompatible when paired together. However, he may have thought they were scum independently of one another. On July 30 2013 02:01 Koshi wrote:HZFLANK If you have read the pages around 59-61 you will see that that hzflank is defending a lot of the flak he is getting by saying that he was only 50% sure about Paper being scum and that he didn't have any better reads on another player, and that he felt it was his duty as town to push the wagon he believed the most in. Anybody that followed the thread yesterday knows that hzflank was pretty stuck on Paper and that a small miracle had to happen for him to change his vote. I could have been that miracle but I am not even going to discuss how strange that is after all the nullreads I got from hz this game. I would like to put your focus on how other wagons or people that didn't believe Paper was scum were treated, in the spoilers below you have exchanges with XRZ and Oats. But a lot of you had interactions with hzflank on why he was thinking Paper was the best read. Did you back then believed it was a 50% read of him? Come on... + Show Spoiler +On July 28 2013 00:02 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 23:53 exarezee wrote:On July 27 2013 23:48 hzflank wrote:On July 27 2013 23:33 exarezee wrote:
I forgot to address your other point hzflank.
I think I've stated who is more likely to be scum by the small case I put on paperscraps and the fact that I voted for him.
Why is me advocating the 2 wagons bad? I feel like I will get a lot of useful information regardless of how they turn. My scum lean on paperscraps isn't even that strong...and if he actually was joking then it's a very slight lean. Still, based on their interactions with me and their voting history on Day 1, I firmly believe that one of those two is scum. Because scum want two town wagons on day 1. Town only wants to find one scum as the chance of actually finding multiple scum on day 1 is very slim. If a scum member is under pressure and cannot deal with it alone then the simplest and easiest thing for the scum team to do is to ignore that person and secure two other lynch candidates. If town start saying that we want to lynch two specific people then it makes it too easy for scum to steer us into a mislynch without being noticed. If you think that they are both scum that is fine, but don't do anything resembling pushing for lynches on them both at the same time. You're exactly right. Scum would ideally want two town wagons Day 1. That's why we wagon paper and tofu......you really think they are town/town with their interactions with me day 1? I think that Paper is scum. However, that read may possibly change (If I am given reason to change it), and if it does change then there is every possibility that they are both town. Their interactions with you in no way preclude them from both being town. On July 28 2013 22:59 hzflank wrote:
Lol Oats, so obvious. Oats and Paper both scum, FT and JAT both town.
Vivax probably town. He thinks I am scum because I seemed to be soft defending JAT. Now these 2 quotes are a few of many attempts by hzflank (and XRZ is guilty of this as well) to control the thread with their scumreads. It's funny how they even say "we should only have 1 wagon because scum wants 2 town wagons on day 1" with XRZ countering that at least 1 of FT and Paper is scum so that these are perfect wagons... (little secret: FT looks town like hell for a FT Day 1 and especially his behavior during lynch) But Koshi you should not make associations like that, right? Ok ok. Let's keep this case focused on hzflank. (just remember while you read Vivax his case)I will repeat again that this behaviour of hzflank resembles a game I recently played with him. Please take into considering that I am telling the truth here without me been able to verify that. Some of the things that you can verify is that hz is a high volume poster, he has a lot of posts and scum that is able to post a shitton is very hard to lynch, extremely hard, unless they screw up. Which hz did: Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 08:33 hzflank wrote:On July 29 2013 08:29 Koshi wrote:
Why do I really want to lynch paper now? And why do I have a feeling we are heading towards a no lynch? On second thought you have a really good reason for voting for Paper. Your plan is still to lynch me as soon as you can. You think that Paper is town so that will help your case against me.
Also, a no lynch will not happen. Only a fool would cause that. Remember that hzflank is a high volume poster. He posts a lot and that is why in general it is almost impossible to lynch these guys. But what is hzflask his defense on this misstep? He says that he isn't scum because if he was scum he would not have replied to me. THIS is bullshit. Believe me. This is bullshit and you should not believe it. hzflank replied to my post (that wasn't directed at him btw but more at rayn and Vivax trying to change votes to FT) in a way that you should see as a scared scum response. This is why, and there are a few replies of hzflank that he posted in defense that make what I type here true, go look them up: (I rewrote the points I make here to make it easier to understand than before)Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 20:28 Koshi wrote:
When the lynch was happening hzflank admitted that he had both these opinions at the same time. He did so in different posts obviously, both posts were made after pressure in addition to the red post above.
1) Koshi and Paper are scum
2) Koshi is pushing paper lynch because Koshi thinks paper is town and koshi wants to see this flip to pressure hzflank.
Which is impossible, these are 2 clear contradictions. In addition you don't think like this as a town player. But as scum? Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 20:30 Koshi wrote:
A scum player on the other hand
1) Scum has to fake red reads on town people, hzflank faked both red reads on paper as on Koshi (quote added entire below where he puts it black on white, but again you should know this if you followed the thread yesterday.)
2) But in the red post above hz scumslips and says that koshi thinks paper is scum THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN A SCUMBRAIN!!! + Show Spoiler +On July 29 2013 21:00 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 20:28 Koshi wrote:
So hz believes 2 complete different things at the same time.
1) Koshi and Paper are scum
2) Koshi is pushing paper lynch because Koshi thinks paper is town
Which is impossible. And pretty close to impossible to think as a town player. I believed that Koshi and/or Paper might be scum. Obviously I did not have a 100% read on either of you. I was trying to work out why town-Koshi would switch his vote to Paper so easily. My conclusion was that it was because you thought that Paper was town and that it would help your case against me. I was wrong though and unfortunately I was not thinking clearly enough. That is actually a better reason for scum-Koshi to vote for Paper than for town-Koshi to. It is easier to say that in hindsight though, now that I know that Paper was town. Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 20:30 Koshi wrote:
A scum player on the other hand
1) knows that both are town but pretend otherwise
2) can assume koshi is pushing paper because koshi thinks paper is town A scum player would not even need to try to work out why Koshi was voting for Paper. A scum player would just go with it and settle for lynching a townie. Conclusion: Lynch, shoot and kill this guy. Burn his body afterwards. Case on hz is okay, but is based on speculation. Not really convinced about hzflank. While I'm gone, let me know what you guys think about these players. Whether you agree/disagree and why.
I'm having issues with this. Tofu you're calling me town for not tunneling you for too long and then you're calling Oats town for continuing to tunnel?
On July 31 2013 02:46 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, town. Here is a question:
Does a Veteran die when he is roleblocked and shot by scum? I guess he does?
I am currently thinking about the possibility of scum interpreting Vivax boost of activity and scumhunting + his vigclaim as bait to shoot him (vet).
So if he was on the right track they could have shot + roleblocked Vivax to be sure and to kill a potential blue. In this case clarity had all the reasons to claim being roleblocked as scum. It also makes sense it's him who claims because Vivax attacked him before he died.
You're ignoring the possibility of a doctor, something scum wouldnt do. I guess they really think I am the doc, or they wouldnt have gone for Vivax.
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