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Well Xfire, it's actually very simple:
So, imagine the chances of kita being 3P survivor are X%.
If we lynch kita, we have a 50% chance of winning (by blocking austin's KP tonight).
If we lynch austin, we either win with X% chance (kita 3P), or lose with 100-X% (kita scum)
So, the question you should ask yourself is: Are the chances of kita being 3P and telling the truth more than 50% or less than 50%?
Depending on which chance you take, which action we should choose.
The other (very important) factor...is shame lol
If we lynch kita and he's 3P, you can just say "Oh well, let's move on" and that's it. You could even blame it on kita for being so scummy and playing against town
But if we lynch austin and kita is scum and we lose, then I'll never forgive myself for "falling" for that lol
So in that sense lynching kita is "safer" (regardless of the chances of him being scum or 3P)
To be honest, right now I think it's a little bit higher than 50%. Like 65% or 70% so.
I dunno...I guess some of the stuff he says makes sense and if he was scum would not make much sense.
Some of the stuff he says is kind of null though.
I'll just respond to this shit I guess and see where it goes:
On July 01 2013 12:05 kitaman27 wrote:
When I shot S0l on day one, austin, Meapak, and geript were all outed based on my action.
This...kind of makes sense. Town sentiment was against austin so scum would have figured out he would be a potential counterlynch to avoid NL on D1. Him or Zepphird.
However, if they planned that with scum kita, wouldn't scum be...like there doing shit? Not a single scum is doing anything after the shot.
You would try to think they would either:
-Try to get the lynch onto Zepphird
-Try to get people to NL
It doesn't make sense to just leave ALL townies in direct control of the counter lynch and not do a single thing (like, not a single scum made a single post until after deadline passed).
The fact not a single scum made a post does make it seem unplanned, and if kita is scum then by definition it can't be unplanned (unless he did it on his own for the lulz).
This gives more points to 3P kita than scum kita.
When geript day vig'd me, there was no reason to implicate myself in killing dandel. As scum buddies, he could have challenged sk8r, and the bus could have been done in secret.
Here....it "seems" like it makes sense but not so much.
Okay, imagine scum geript and scum kita decide to use geript's day vig to shoot a townie, but they don't want to basically claim scum in-thread; how would you do it?
Make scum kita (who's getting wagoned) claim 3P, have scum geript MK him, and have them use TARDIS to kill townie of their choice.
Things in favor of scum kita:
I still can't believe scum geript would just randomly use his day vig on the 3P instead of saving it, or use it on a townie he FoSed earlier or something.
Like...no it doesn't make sense other than a senseless "gain town cred" action.
This is the reason I kind of thought of geript as "confirmed town" before, because this action as scum if kita is not scum with him doesn't make sense
Only thing that makes sense is it was planned to kill a townie...if not why waste the bullet like that? Just don't use it and that's it, lynch kita, who is the guy that MADE YOUR ROLE, and after he dies keep the shit hidden until you need it later to kill a townie (granted not used as a vig shot per se because townies have to vote, but you can use it later when you want a scummy townie killed)...
...hmm, although since people have to vote it's more of a minilynch. I guess using it on a super townie is impossible (basically they can't use it on someone they WANT to kill), so they have to use it on kita or on a scummy townie (like sk8, etc).
In that case geript might even "lose" the fight and not get the dude lynched. Even if he does he will be held accountable for a direct town flip, and he can't push that guy anymore.
Using it on a confirmed anti-town could give him free town points I guess...
....still....doesn't make much sense to not just keep hold of it for a while longer
Thinks in favor of 3p kita:
The Dandel kill mostly.
If scum kita and scum geript use the TARDIS shit, they can anonymously kill anybody they want. They can kill BC who IS A DT and was basically confirmed town by then. They could kill me who was pretty townie back then and they didn't know my role.
They could have killed a townie they thought had a good role, like Kurumi (he outed himself as inventor-er by then I believe).
Yet they choose Dandel, who wasn't really the "confirmed town" force, nor seemed to have a known good role by then.
Like, the blame would have been on kita as well. After the Dandel "kill" everybody thought kita was scum anyways, why not just put that blame on him and keep going on? geript would have 0 blame basically unless people figured that shit out (if he tried to appear pro-town a little bit more people might have not figured that out).
If they are scum and made this super plan....just to kill Dandel...it feels pointless as well.
Kita killing Dandel to "avoid getting lynched" isn't very convincing...but makes more sense than the above
Scum had no knowledge of the TARDIS role, yet I did.
There's no way to prove this. Scum can feign ignorance of the TARDIS in-thread.
Unless there's a scum action (night kill, etc) regarding the TARDIS that proves that.
If so feel free to provide it.
Kurumi confirmed that I drained the TARDIS.
I don't see how this has to do with anything.
It is possible you drained the TARDIS by getting it. It's possible the TARDIS is drained by constant uses (like I stated earlier).
Like...not even you know why it was drained before and I doubt you 100% know why it was drained now.
I passed the TARDIS to a town player.
Hmm....kind of makes sense....
...although not so much.
Well, at that point kita was trying to seem pro-town...at least a little tiny bit.
But you shot of Dandel, and after N2 you went anti-town as hell.
Maybe as scum you passed the TARDIS to a townie YOU WOULD KILL THAT NIGHT so:
-You could get the TARDIS back after that guy died (just like scum got it on D3)
-You could reset the "mafia counter" restriction the TARDIS has by having it pass hands to a townie first
-Gain town cred and keep playing the "I'm survivor" slick, and not just be confirmed scum
So...this is rather null instead.
I have mason logs with a mafia player.
Yeah...those are kind of compelling. I'll have to reread them though.
Just a quick question: What is the TL Mafia history on fake chat logs?
I think some scum members at some other PM game faked chat logs between each other. Do you (Xfire+kita) have any idea which game, and how complex, etc it was? I.e if it faked timestamps and all that shit?
If kita was scum trying to pass himself as 3P survivor...and he and geript went through ALL that length to create those fake logs to basically never show them?
(I would assume he AND geript both faked them before geript died, and it wasn't just kita that faked the A FEW HOURS AGO all by himself. The dude there does sound like geript in a way, and it'd be more natural for both of them to "fake" discuss shit and post it as a "chat log")
Like...kita never even said he had those logs before either. He said he chatted with geript...but like once in a forgettable post.
If scum kita's plan was convincing us he was 3P survivor, then he could have shown those logs sooner (once geript was lynched for instance), or he could have tried harder.
Right now it does seem he just had those logs hidden somewhere and just quickly copy+pasted them to make his other post.
It's too much of an elaborate plan that doesn't make much sense otherwise.
I claimed survivor from the start of the game.
Yep, this is true and I don't remember a scum crumbing an ANTI-TOWN ROLE in their 1st post, specially the anti-town role they will base THEIR WHOLE GAME STRATEGY on.
This just....doesn't feel right for scum kita.
Like, if he crumbed veteran or hell maybe even survivor but in like his 10th post or some shit, something that nobody will notice, then I get it. But doing it right off the bat in his 1st post is.....well...possible I guess, but not really likely.
Xfire, can you confirm that if you shoot the guy with the TARDIS, you get the TARDIS yourself? Or is it distributed randomly?
Most importantly, kita, was it told to you anything about that?
You say that once sol claimed The Doctor (or WOS claimed for him anyways), you shot him to see if he had the TARDIS to get it.
But....how would you know if you could get the TARDIS by shooting him YOURSELF? Why couldn't you wait 10 minutes for him to get lynched instead (if the TARDIS just randomly goes to someone else no matter how the guy dies)?
Another thing that bothers me is kita's behaviour.
He seemed to be working for scum BEFORE geript was revealed as 3P. Like, back in D2 you made those cases on austin and sk8, you seemed "somewhat" pro-town.
But as soon as Dandel died, you played for scum right there. You made no cases, you shitted up the thread, trolled, said "guys im survivor dont lynch me lololo" which seemed like a scum's failed attempt at trolling and appearing like he cares about what people think about him.
At times you seemed like you didn't really care about your survival. Like people would say "okay I'll shoot kita tonight" or "okay we lynch kita tomorrow" or even in D3 when people wanted to lynch you...you didn't seem to give a shit.
If you were survivor, without any knowledge about what scum are doing (and from your POP alone in the game), then you WOULD give a shit
The only ways you wouldn't give a shit would be:
1)You had contacted scum previously, and they already told you they would protect you and had lynches worked out so you wouldn't have to worry
2)You are scum, thus you can just shit up the thread all you want, never give a shit, and you can even be lynched later and you don't care because your work for your scumteam was already made.
This last bit is the one that makes me doubt just believing you outright
If you have anything interesting to say about this kita then be my guest. Tomorrow I'll try rereading your filter from the Dandel shot (D2) to start of D3 to check the above stuff.
Another thing is that (while skimming your log with geript) you two don't really seem to talk about the protection geript apparently had on you (or I missed it), nor any protection from a lynch or whatever that is.
Again, I'd assume that if you were survivor you'd care more about.....surviving. EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOTHERS thought you were scum (they THOUGHT YOU WERE SCUM, and they thought that ever since N2 when you were playing for scum apparently, was that the play for 3P survivor you wanted to make?) and would kill you in a heartbeat with anything you got, weren't you worried about fulfilling your win-con by then?
Like, weren't you worried about town vig shots, or like the freaking lynch of D3?
I don't see you too worried nor try to get info from geript based on that.
If I missed a crucial bit in that log then point it out.
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"Well Xfire, it's actually very simple:"
*Wall of text hits Xatalos for critical damage. Xatalos is now permanently dead.*
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
The other (very important) factor...is shame lol
If we lynch kita and he's 3P, you can just say "Oh well, let's move on" and that's it. You could even blame it on kita for being so scummy and playing against town
But if we lynch austin and kita is scum and we lose, then I'll never forgive myself for "falling" for that lol
So in that sense lynching kita is "safer" (regardless of the chances of him being scum or 3P)
Oh god -_-
You play to win. You don't play to hope you won't get laughed at post game.
On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 12:05 kitaman27 wrote:
When I shot S0l on day one, austin, Meapak, and geript were all outed based on my action. This...kind of makes sense. Town sentiment was against austin so scum would have figured out he would be a potential counterlynch to avoid NL on D1. Him or Zepphird. However, if they planned that with scum kita, wouldn't scum be...like there doing shit? Not a single scum is doing anything after the shot. You would try to think they would either: -Try to get the lynch onto Zepphird -Try to get people to NL It doesn't make sense to just leave ALL townies in direct control of the counter lynch and not do a single thing (like, not a single scum made a single post until after deadline passed). The fact not a single scum made a post does make it seem unplanned, and if kita is scum then by definition it can't be unplanned (unless he did it on his own for the lulz). This gives more points to 3P kita than scum kita.
Furthermore, I called out austin, Meapak after the lynch and questioned geript for his absence. It would be straight up insane to try to pull a triple bus day one, incriminating two of my scum buddies who would have to either be afk or have to lie about not being around, and then have my scum buddy come one vote away from being hammered. As mafia, I could have shot someone like BC and went on my way. Don't forget that Meapak's absence was likely a reason for him getting checked and shot.
On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
I still can't believe scum geript would just randomly use his day vig on the 3P instead of saving it, or use it on a townie he FoSed earlier or something.
Like...no it doesn't make sense other than a senseless "gain town cred" action.
Mafia players tunnel third party players all the time. It gives them an excuse to push an anti-town player, while still appearing to scum hunt. For this to make sense, I would have had to plan it from my first post into the game, which is completely implausible. gonzaw challenging a town player that looks bad may result in a town kill, but it makes him look bad and a viable lynch candidate is removed, putting more pressure on his team. Like I said before, there was no reason to implicate myself in the Dandel kill, when we could have simply bussed Sk8r/BC if we were scum buddies.
On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:There's no way to prove this. Scum can feign ignorance of the TARDIS in-thread. Unless there's a scum action (night kill, etc) regarding the TARDIS that proves that. If so feel free to provide it.
There is no way to prove this, but you're rarely going to get proof of something in a mafia game. You have to determine what is most likely. It is incredibly unlikely that a mafia player would have knowledge of a town role. Why would they?
On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
I don't see how this has to do with anything.
It is possible you drained the TARDIS by getting it. It's possible the TARDIS is drained by constant uses (like I stated earlier).
Like...not even you know why it was drained before and I doubt you 100% know why it was drained now.
Well crossfire confirmed that my weeping angel role feeds on the TARDIS so it matches up the flavor with my role. Keep in mind that all the mafia roles have their scum name and their town counter-part, which is their actual role. I have my Madam Vastra role, which clearly could have not mentioned the TARDIS, but I also have my weeping angel win condition, which states that I win by surviving and feeding on TARDIS.
On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:Hmm....kind of makes sense.... ...although not so much. Well, at that point kita was trying to seem pro-town...at least a little tiny bit. But you shot of Dandel, and after N2 you went anti-town as hell. Maybe as scum you passed the TARDIS to a townie YOU WOULD KILL THAT NIGHT so: -You could get the TARDIS back after that guy died (just like scum got it on D3) -You could reset the "mafia counter" restriction the TARDIS has by having it pass hands to a townie first -Gain town cred and keep playing the "I'm survivor" slick, and not just be confirmed scum
"If you don't choose a new player to give the TARDIS to after having used it once or if a player dies while in possession of the TARDIS, it will be randomly distributed to some other player still alive in the game."
Killing Kurumi wouldn't guarantee it was returned to me. I gave a self-protect/busdrive ability to the town inventor when I didn't have to. Sk8r was town so there was no restriction on passing.
On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:Yeah...those are kind of compelling. I'll have to reread them though. Just a quick question: What is the TL Mafia history on fake chat logs? I think some scum members at some other PM game faked chat logs between each other. Do you (Xfire+kita) have any idea which game, and how complex, etc it was? I.e if it faked timestamps and all that shit? If kita was scum trying to pass himself as 3P survivor...and he and geript went through ALL that length to create those fake logs to basically never show them? (I would assume he AND geript both faked them before geript died, and it wasn't just kita that faked the A FEW HOURS AGO all by himself. The dude there does sound like geript in a way, and it'd be more natural for both of them to "fake" discuss shit and post it as a "chat log") Like...kita never even said he had those logs before either. He said he chatted with geript...but like once in a forgettable post. If scum kita's plan was convincing us he was 3P survivor, then he could have shown those logs sooner (once geript was lynched for instance), or he could have tried harder. Right now it does seem he just had those logs hidden somewhere and just quickly copy+pasted them to make his other post. It's too much of an elaborate plan that doesn't make much sense otherwise.
Faking those logs would be extremely difficult with the perfect time stamps, perfect game flow and perfect formatting. I suppose it would be possible to plan this all ahead of time, create a quicktopic 48 hours in advance, and then pretend to discuss the game, but you're looking for what is likely, not what is possible.
On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
Xfire, can you confirm that if you shoot the guy with the TARDIS, you get the TARDIS yourself? Or is it distributed randomly?
Most importantly, kita, was it told to you anything about that?
You say that once sol claimed The Doctor (or WOS claimed for him anyways), you shot him to see if he had the TARDIS to get it.
But....how would you know if you could get the TARDIS by shooting him YOURSELF? Why couldn't you wait 10 minutes for him to get lynched instead (if the TARDIS just randomly goes to someone else no matter how the guy dies)?
As I mentioned earlier, it is distributed randomly after a kill. I had no knowledge of how it was passed or even what it did. I figured that if there was a lynch, it would be distributed to1 player that voted for him. In a previous PTP (?) game, that is how items were distributed. I guessed that killing The Doctor would give me the item and I guessed he would have it. I also was extremely close to shooting austin because he mentioned a gift in the thread, but decided it would be more likely to be in the hands of the Doctor.
On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
Another thing that bothers me is kita's behaviour.
He seemed to be working for scum BEFORE geript was revealed as 3P. Like, back in D2 you made those cases on austin and sk8, you seemed "somewhat" pro-town.
But as soon as Dandel died, you played for scum right there. You made no cases, you shitted up the thread, trolled, said "guys im survivor dont lynch me lololo" which seemed like a scum's failed attempt at trolling and appearing like he cares about what people think about him.
At times you seemed like you didn't really care about your survival. Like people would say "okay I'll shoot kita tonight" or "okay we lynch kita tomorrow" or even in D3 when people wanted to lynch you...you didn't seem to give a shit.
If you were survivor, without any knowledge about what scum are doing (and from your POP alone in the game), then you WOULD give a shit
I was quite concerned when BC claimed to have killed me in the thread. I thought the game was over at that point for me. D3 I thought the mafia + survivor controlled the lynch based on my conversation with geript, so the lynch wasn't as much of a concern for me, but apparently it should have been.
On July 01 2013 15:10 gonzaw wrote:
Another thing is that (while skimming your log with geript) you two don't really seem to talk about the protection geript apparently had on you (or I missed it), nor any protection from a lynch or whatever that is.
Again, I'd assume that if you were survivor you'd care more about.....surviving. EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOTHERS thought you were scum (they THOUGHT YOU WERE SCUM, and they thought that ever since N2 when you were playing for scum apparently, was that the play for 3P survivor you wanted to make?) and would kill you in a heartbeat with anything you got, weren't you worried about fulfilling your win-con by then?
Like, weren't you worried about town vig shots, or like the freaking lynch of D3?
I don't see you too worried nor try to get info from geript based on that.
Well I created geript's role so I knew how it worked. Night one I'm pretty sure he would have protected me. I threatened to reveal his identity in the thread since I caught him breadcrumbing his role with the "I want to fight you" comment. Night two there wasn't really much I could do to convince him considering he just tried to day vig me and we weren't working together at that point. I doubt he actually protected me like he claimed. D3 he was lynched. Probably would have discussed it had he survived, but it didn't come to that. Mafia players fear vig's just as much as survivors anyways.
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My apologies. I got really frustrated last night after slipping up. Legitimately thought that things were over, that I'd let down my team, etc. etc. However, I asked a couple questions this morning and figured something out.
Before I go further, I will tell you this. Kita is not mafia/church. He is a third party. This is not a giant ploy between the two of us to have you lynch me and then let him win. Believe it or don't believe it, but this isn't an act to keep him alive and have him shoot you guys.
However, that does not mean you should lynch me. Take a good, hard look at the game, and you'll see what I see. If you kill me, I think kita 100% wins the game and both town and mafia lose. If you don't kill me, and kill kita instead, we go to the magical night roulette.
So, without further ado, here are three major things to consider:
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THING NUMBER ONE: THE WIN CONS
On June 04 2013 06:37 deconduo wrote:
Alignments:
The Alliance
You win when all Anti-Town forces are dead.
The Church
You win when all Town forces are dead.
?????
You win if you are alive at the end of the game and have fulfilled your victory condition.
Kita is correct that mafia/church needed all "town" forces dead to win. Therefore, don't backstab him, etc. - + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2013 08:15 kitaman27 wrote:
To the remaining mafia:
The Church
You win when all Town forces are dead.
The game ends as soon as the final town player is dead. There is literally zero reason to backstab me.
However, the wording is odd, and I didn't notice it until this morning. Alliance wins when "anti-town" forces are dead. Church wins when "town" forces are dead. Look at that again. Alliance doesn't win when "Church" forces are dead, nor does Church win when "Alliance" forces are dead.
That is because third parties can have town/anti-town alignment. Feel free to double-check this for yourself, but third parties can be anti-town
Again, feel free to double-check for yourselves. If you lynch me, the game does not magically end. You have to kill all anti-town forces, not church forces. You lynch me, the Church faction is gone. However, kita is not.
Based on the other points, he's lying about some things and his role doesn't match up with him being a survivor. Therefore, I believe he is NOT a survivor, actually DOES have an alignment. If he's 3P, you don't win by lynching me. You have to lynch me AND have kita not be anti-town. You know, the lying "survivor" with a vigi shot and a "lovers" thing that is AWFUL for a survivor (see below).
If kita is anti-town, he's engineered the perfect endgame if you vote me. You kill me. You don't win. Kita dayvigs one of you tomorrow, it's 1-1, no lynch. Kita waits 2 days, and then day vigs the other one of you. TA DA. Town loses. Mafia loses. Kita, and only kita, wins.
I'm going to repeat, big again
TOWN DOES NOT WIN WHEN ALL CHURCH (MAFIA), IS DEAD. TOWN WINS WHEN ALL "ANTI-TOWN FORCES" ARE DEAD. THIRD PARTIES CAN BE TOWN/ANTI-TOWN, THAT IS WHY THERE IS THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN ALLIANCE/CHURCH AND TOWN/ANTI-TOWN. JUST READ THE WORDING, IT IS DIFFERENT FOR A REASON
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THING NUMBER TWO: KITA'S VIGI POWER
Kita has lied about what it is that he does.
(1)
In chat logs with geript, Kita says he can't shoot again after shooting DI. When responding to crossfire's request for a FULL role claim, Kita does not include a limit on his shots. When zephirdd made comments about the role he created, he did not say anything about the number of shots. Furthermore, who in the balls creates a vigi role with THREE shots. Vigis get like...one or two shots, or unlimited, I have never seen a three-shot vigi.
Kita tells geript that he can't shoot again - + Show Spoiler +62
GeriptPerson was signed in when posted
06-28-2013
04:38 PM ET (US)
Can't shoot ever again? That's complete bs. Then just shoot gonzaw first.
61
kitaman27
06-28-2013
04:28 PM ET (US)
Can't busdrive.
If I shoot today, I can't shoot again.
Kita gives his role to Crossfire, does NOT say he has a shot limit - + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2013 10:40 kitaman27 wrote:
I'm the Weeping Angel
I win if I am alive at the end of the game, and have successfully fed on the TARDIS. I have no clue if feeding on the TARDIS altered it in any way. I was never informed.
My disguise is Madam Vastra
You can pick someone to be your maid by PMing the hosts at any point in the game. You and your maid are able to communicate at any point in time, however you don't know his/her role/alignment and he/she doesnt know yours. If you and your maid survive for two straight cycles(day and night, or 144 real-life hours), you become lovers, which means that if one dies, the other suicides.
Despite begrudging respect for humanity, you do enjoy devouring them once in a while. You can eat a person during day time anonymously, but you need a day to enjoy the meal.
Again, read his claim to Crossfire. NOWHERE does he say he has limited shots. It just says he eats someone, needs a day between to enjoy a meal. That's all.
He didn't tell Crossfire he had limited shots. Zephirdd didn't say anything about limited shots. Three is an odd number to be limited to. The likely conclusion? He's not actually limited on shots. He has some angle when he was talking to geript, and it slipped his mind when changing to crossfire and he didn't alter his PM.
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THING NUMBER THREE: KITA'S WIN CONDITION
Kita says he is a survivor. I have told you that he is 3P, but we have NO confirmation that he is a survivor, and I will repeat, third parties can be anti-town. Things he has said, things that are half-known about his role PM, and his play this game all point towards him being 3P, but NOT a survivor.
(1)
Kita told geript he was a mafia traitor.
+ Show Spoiler +
113
Geript
06-27-2013
06:31 PM ET (US)
Dude give me some credit. And not Traitor is comple bullshit on top of it.
112
austinmcc
06-27-2013
06:25 PM ET (US)
Uuuuuuurg. We should have considered traitor with only 3 mafia. I'd been thinking he'd be an assassin or some other 3rd party with KP to help drop numbers.
111
austinmcc
06-27-2013
06:23 PM ET (US)
Don't overplay it.
Oh goddamn it. Figure out if there's a way to activate it or something I guess. Do NOT tell him I'm mafia, in case he's actually some other 3P.
110
Geript
06-27-2013
06:19 PM ET (US)
FYI Kita claimed mafia traitor. Idk what to believe w/ him. In mason chat w/ him.
Pure copy paste from QT. Kita lied to us about his role. We didn't trust him, and any mention of that from his conversation with geript has been scrubbed away. If he's lying about his 3P role, he's not doing it for happy reasons. He's telling each side what they want to hear.
(2)
Kita's lovers thing is 100% at odds with him being a survivor
You can pick someone to be your maid by PMing the hosts at any point in the game. You and your maid are able to communicate at any point in time, however you don't know his/her role/alignment and he/she doesnt know yours. If you and your maid survive for two straight cycles(day and night, or 144 real-life hours), you become lovers, which means that if one dies, the other suicides.
Geript said he'd become "star-crossed lovers" if he stayed masoned with kita - + Show Spoiler +
117
Geript
06-27-2013
07:07 PM ET (US)
i'm quite sure he's some sort of 3p b/c if i stay masoned with him for so long then i become starcrossed lovers with him.
(We were trying to figure out what exactly kita was)
Geript did not know what that meant, or did not tell me. But look at the frigging language kita has claimed. He ties himself to another person, and if one dies, the other suicides?
That's an AWFUL power for a survivor, and one you REALLY don't want to use. Not only do YOU have to survive, but now you have to make sure ANOTHER PERSON survives? You just doubled your chances of losing. And kita used his mason on geript, WHO WAS JUST CHECKED AS MAFIA (kita's version of his role says he can PM at any time to be someone's chat buddy). Geript is HIGHLY likely to die at that point, get lynched or something, but kita is planning to keep him alive overnight. Just look at that. Kita shoots geript, who fake dies on D3. He sits out a bit, then pops back into thread N3 or D4 because of his role. Kita KNOWS that, because kita created geript's role. After D3 and N3, kita becomes star-crossed lovers with RED-CHECKED GERIPT.
Geript then gets lynched or killed somehow, probably, and KITA DIES BECAUSE OF HIS POWER.
It's an AWFUL pairing to choose if you're kita, given the red check. And it's an AWFUL power to EVER use as a survivor, because it makes you more likely to die. But kita used it. Indicates he's NOT a survivor.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Survivors are not anti-town. I've already confirmed that I can win when only town + me remain or only town + mafia remain. I'm guessing it is worded that way because that is the wording of town win conditions in nearly all games.
"Therefore, I believe he is NOT a survivor, actually DOES have an alignment."
What does this even mean? The OP states that third party players in this game are survivors. I can't possibly be a serial killer based on how the win conditions are worded in the OP. Therefore I am a survivor and I can win with town.
Stop grasping at straws.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Furthermore, the lover power does not go into effect for 2 full cycles after it is activated. With six players remaining on day three, if geript is still alive by D5 then it means mafia and myself have almost certainly won so that would be the least of my concerns.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On July 02 2013 00:49 kitaman27 wrote:
Survivors are not anti-town. I've already confirmed that I can win when only town + me remain or only mafia + me remain.
Fixed.
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EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
- Town does not win when they kill mafia/church. Town wins when they eliminate all "anti-town forces." 3P players CAN be town/anti-town, and you can confirm this.
- Kita's story is inconsistent when concerning his vigi power.
- Kita's "lovers/star-crossed lovers" bit of his PM does NOT make sense at all for a survivor, survivors win on their own, and don't often go around attaching themselves to other people and dying if the other person dies.
- Even if Decon is trolling kita and making him a survivor with that power, kita's use of that power is...questionable as a survivor, as it opens him up to a higher chance of death and he could have shot DI/geript/anyone without masoning
(Sorry, I had to stop the summary for a moment of work, looking at Kita's response now)
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I'm going to respond to kita, for now, in a small post. Then I'd like to hear gonzaw/crossfire on thisOn July 02 2013 00:49 kitaman27 wrote:
Survivors are not anti-town. I've already confirmed that I can win when only town + me remain or only town + mafia remain. I'm guessing it is worded that way because that is the wording of town win conditions in nearly all games.
"Therefore, I believe he is NOT a survivor, actually DOES have an alignment."
What does this even mean? The OP states that third party players in this game are survivors. I can't possibly be a serial killer based on how the win conditions are worded in the OP. Therefore I am a survivor and I can win with town.
Stop grasping at straws. Here is the biggest thing I see with kita's post.
The OP does not say third party players are survivors.On June 04 2013 06:37 deconduo wrote:
Alignments:
The Alliance
You win when all Anti-Town forces are dead.
The Church
You win when all Town forces are dead.
?????
You win if you are alive at the end of the game and have fulfilled your victory condition.
It says be alive AND fulfill victory conditions.
Moreover, you can check for yourselves. Third parties can be town and anti-town. If third parties were ALL survivors, then they wouldn't be town/anti-town. They're neutral, they win either way. Because they can be town/anti-town, they ACTIVELY STOP ALLIANCE/CHURCH FACTIONS FROM ACHIEVING THEIR WIN-CONS.
Survivors don't do that. Survivors just win. Town/Mafia never have "Kill mafia/town, and then also kill all the survivors kkthx"
Kita's "all 3P are survivors" story makes NO sense, because 3Ps can be town/anti-town and interefere with alliance/church win-cons.
Second, and more nebulous:
We have no PROOF that you are a survivor. You claim that. But your PLAY does not say survivor.
On D3, you shot town and worked to save geript. Geript TOLD you in PMs, the PMs you posted, that I was mafia (more or less, by saying to shoot everyone else). You could have shot me, let geript get lynched.
If you were a survivor and we were the last two mafia, congratulations, you win. If you were a survivor and there were three mafia remaining, congratulations, there is now ONE mafia remaining and YOU SHOT A MAFIA. Town isn't killing you at that point, and you're clear to coast for a survivor win.
Mafia was absolutely SCREWED that day. And you bailed us out of it. That's not survivor play. That's knowing that if mafia gets screwed on D3, and it's like BC/Gonzaw/Crossfire/DI vs. one or 0 mafia and they don't win, you're going to get lynched.
Gonzaw, crossfire, put yourself in kita's mindset D3. He could have sided with town, killed mafia. You guys would have kept him alive then. Mafia would be so utterly screwed that we would need to focus on killing town for the rest of the game. He had an easy path as a survivor. Instead, he sided with mafia. The only purpose that serves is to drag the game out, reduce numbers, and make it so it's not a bunch of townies + kita and the townies scratching their heads wondering why they haven't won yet.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On July 02 2013 01:17 austinmcc wrote:I'm going to respond to kita, for now, in a small post. Then I'd like to hear gonzaw/crossfire on this Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 00:49 kitaman27 wrote:
Survivors are not anti-town. I've already confirmed that I can win when only town + me remain or only town + mafia remain. I'm guessing it is worded that way because that is the wording of town win conditions in nearly all games.
"Therefore, I believe he is NOT a survivor, actually DOES have an alignment."
What does this even mean? The OP states that third party players in this game are survivors. I can't possibly be a serial killer based on how the win conditions are worded in the OP. Therefore I am a survivor and I can win with town.
Stop grasping at straws. Here is the biggest thing I see with kita's post. The OP does not say third party players are survivors. Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 06:37 deconduo wrote:
Alignments:
The Alliance
You win when all Anti-Town forces are dead.
The Church
You win when all Town forces are dead.
?????
You win if you are alive at the end of the game and have fulfilled your victory condition. It says be alive AND fulfill victory conditions. Moreover, you can check for yourselves. Third parties can be town and anti-town. If third parties were ALL survivors, then they wouldn't be town/anti-town. They're neutral, they win either way. Because they can be town/anti-town, they ACTIVELY STOP ALLIANCE/CHURCH FACTIONS FROM ACHIEVING THEIR WIN-CONS. Survivors don't do that. Survivors just win. Town/Mafia never have "Kill mafia/town, and then also kill all the survivors kkthx" Kita's "all 3P are survivors" story makes NO sense, because 3Ps can be town/anti-town and interefere with alliance/church win-cons.
Second, and more nebulous:
Staying alive and surviving are the same things. There is no need to twist my words. My victory condition was feeding on the TARDIS, which I've done. This is pretty clear.
Survivors are NOT anti-town. The win conditions do not conflict. Show me a game where a survivor could not win with town. You can't because they don't exist. You're suddenly coming up with this "Kita can't win with town" story because it's the only alternative to you losing.
On June 26 2013 08:01 Zephirdd wrote:
kita is survivor
why would you kill a survivor so soon
Survivor is the town-oriented third party, just like SK is the scum-oriented one.
you don't kill a survivor T_T
On July 02 2013 01:17 austinmcc wrote:
We have no PROOF that you are a survivor. You claim that. But your PLAY does not say survivor.
We have no PROOF that you are mafia, but that doesn't stop it from being so. The only things that are 100% confirmed in a mafia game is something that comes from the host. You have to draw conclusions based on the evidence and the evidence certainly points to the fact that I am a survivor.
On July 02 2013 01:17 austinmcc wrote:
On D3, you shot town and worked to save geript. Geript TOLD you in PMs, the PMs you posted, that I was mafia (more or less, by saying to shoot everyone else). You could have shot me, let geript get lynched.
If you were a survivor and we were the last two mafia, congratulations, you win. If you were a survivor and there were three mafia remaining, congratulations, there is now ONE mafia remaining and YOU SHOT A MAFIA. Town isn't killing you at that point, and you're clear to coast for a survivor win.
Mafia was absolutely SCREWED that day. And you bailed us out of it. That's not survivor play. That's knowing that if mafia gets screwed on D3, and it's like BC/Gonzaw/Crossfire/DI vs. one or 0 mafia and they don't win, you're going to get lynched.
Gonzaw, crossfire, put yourself in kita's mindset D3. He could have sided with town, killed mafia. You guys would have kept him alive then. Mafia would be so utterly screwed that we would need to focus on killing town for the rest of the game. He had an easy path as a survivor. Instead, he sided with mafia. The only purpose that serves is to drag the game out, reduce numbers, and make it so it's not a bunch of townies + kita and the townies scratching their heads wondering why they haven't won yet.
Mafia had promised me a win and geript made it seem as if the votes were there. Furthermore, mafia had the TARDIS on day three and considering gonzaw was next to bulletproof, I'm quite sure that the TARDIS protection would have been on you. There is a reason I wanted to confirm that you guys had the device. If I shoot you, it completely shuts down my ability to win with mafia due to the back stab, it leads me to get lynched after geript, and the game ends with an austin mafia victory. I left both my routes to victory open by taking out a player without protection, which makes perfect sense for a survivor.
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woot
austin if kita had to be the last man standing as 3P...he'd have factional KP, that's like a fact.
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He also wouldn't have sided with scum like that
Like, imagine you guys didn't let geript get lynched last day and NLed or lynched a townie. Imagine it being 1v2v1 or 2v1 today (scum and kita).
What would "anti-scum" kita do? You guys outnumber him, he gets insta-lynched or insta-killed at night (if he doesn't have the tardis).
Well, he was outed by D2 and almost lynched maybe that was a risk he was going to take...
...but he played too pro-scum to do shit like that imo.
Oh well, didn't even read your posts lol might wanna do that
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On July 02 2013 02:46 gonzaw wrote:
woot
austin if kita had to be the last man standing as 3P...he'd have factional KP, that's like a fact. So you feel comfortable with him saying all 3Ps are survivors when 3Ps can be town/anti-town?
You feel comfortable with him giving different stories about how many shots he has?
You feel real, real, REAL comfortable about him actually being a pure, honest-to-god, just-survive survivor?
I don't know what he is. I don't know that he's got to be last man standing. But what I KNOW, and what you can see for yourself, and ask yourself, is that the win-cons don't support his "all 3P = survivor" claim. I could post all day with things that he might be, but what I know, and what you should be able to smell, is that his story doesn't add up.
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Well, I feel that you HAVE to come up with something in order play to win today.
Kita would most likely lie about shit to avoid getting lynched today as well (even if he's 3P survivor or some shit I guess).
Meh, I'll reread and shit and reconsider, we have time.
Also, you guys could like vote each other or something, so it's easier for us to voteswitch and shit.
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On July 02 2013 03:00 gonzaw wrote:
Well, I feel that you HAVE to come up with something in order play to win today.
Kita would most likely lie about shit to avoid getting lynched today as well (even if he's 3P survivor or some shit I guess).
Meh, I'll reread and shit and reconsider, we have time.
Also, you guys could like vote each other or something, so it's easier for us to voteswitch and shit. I mean, I do. I spent part of last night thinking up dumb claims.
"I have the TARDIS, and now that it's been drained of energy, whoever has it can use it as a dayvig, just dropping it on the head of someone. Crossfire, if you don't put your vote and kita's vote on kita, I will dayvig you at end of cycle and town will lose. I would vig you right now, but kita is trying to get me killed, and I'd rather he get lynched and not win."
"As part of my role, when I lose the power to grant powers, I get to pick one power for myself from another list. I chose dayvig." Same thing.
Trust me, I got lies aplenty to try and avoid getting lynched today.
But you're right, I'd tell them no matter his alignment. It's up to you guys to figure out what you think about his alignment.
All I know is that I sat down and really read the win-cons this morning, and asked whether 3Ps can be town/anti-town.
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bee tee dubs, I don't have the TARDIS. It's either winked out of existence when Kurumi died (doesn't transfer again once drained?) or kita has it.
I don't think that matters, and you may not trust me, but...it wouldn't even do anything for me if I had it, so there's no reason to hide that. It wouldn't stop a lynch or help me kill you guys tonight, so...there's no real reason to lie here.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On July 02 2013 02:53 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 02:46 gonzaw wrote:
woot
austin if kita had to be the last man standing as 3P...he'd have factional KP, that's like a fact. So you feel comfortable with him saying all 3Ps are survivors when 3Ps can be town/anti-town?
All 3Ps do need to survive until endgame. It is confirmed in the OP. The host is not lying. You're arguing semantics.
On July 02 2013 02:53 austinmcc wrote:
You feel comfortable with him giving different stories about how many shots he has?
Different stories? My role has been confirmed by the creator of Madam Vastra, who was town. He had no reason to lie about how it worked.
On July 02 2013 02:53 austinmcc wrote:
I don't know what he is. I don't know that he's got to be last man standing. But what I KNOW, and what you can see for yourself, and ask yourself, is that the win-cons don't support his "all 3P = survivor" claim. I could post all day with things that he might be, but what I know, and what you should be able to smell, is that his story doesn't add up.
You know that if you are lynched mafia loses. End of story. Trying to act as if the survivor can't win with town is nonsense. It has never happened in the past and would make no sense.
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EPT
