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11589 Posts
On April 08 2013 13:18 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:13 yamato77 wrote:
It doesn't matter what killed him, it matters why.
Gonzaw was killed because he was obviously town and people were forming around him. What did he advocate? Killing artanis. Let's murder him. Sentiment is fine.. but i need to extend the thoughts as per: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:03 Mocsta wrote:
Now anways, lets get this show back on track.
Gonzaw was a good scum hit; the timing is what is interesting.
Are they trying to force us onto VE, because it happened when we were talking about him?
hmmm.. for now, i want to maintain the legacy Gonzaw started.
We keep the lynch on Artanis[Xp] The posts identifying Gonzaw as "jack" were from ~8hrs ago. i.e. He could have been killed anytime between 8hrs ago, and just before the cycle finished. If they wanted to kill him due to the artanis case.. well... its odd they waited so long. and I choose not to use timezone as a reason for delay. The thread topic at the time was: Geript/VE NRA item. Which was potentially juicy enough to get a wagon off Artanis Im saying this all this, because if Artanis (who we are lynching) flips red.. im inclined to think VE is town.
1) You don't know when the shot was sent.
2) Artanis being mafia does not, in any way, exonerate VE.
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On April 08 2013 13:11 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:03 Sharrant wrote:This is the post where I knew with 100% certainty that he was the Jack. Scum should've known right then too. He's confident he can save his shot for tomorrow even having already said he could day vig. If I were in his position I'd be 100% sure that I don't live to see tomorrow. He's 100% confident that the town has at least 1 night vig shot. Jack is the only KP role that would let him live the night, and let him day vig. It was the only thing that fit how he was playing. On April 08 2013 11:12 gonzaw wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 11:06 yamato77 wrote:
Gonzaw, what do you think about killing sinani? Hmm, not that convinced right now. If he's town that'd be better than a misslynch though.... ...but if that's what should happen, it'd be better to let him live until D2 at least...and maybe shoot him there  I won't shoot anybody that hasn't had a chance to "redeem" themselves yet. Sno being so damn awful could be tied to IRL stuff. I mean, he hasn't even voted yet, he may even get replaced/modkill. BC was seeking a replacement in the "Player Replacement" thread, and so far it seems Snoman is the one fitting that bill. He damn sure looks scummy though, but I'd wait until he shows up to do any shit and analyze what he does, or for his replacement to get here and analyze what he does (knowing that his predecessor was scummy as fuck) We can just vig him at night, either he if he just comes here to avoid modkill and does shit all, or his replacement if he gets replaced. I can save my day KP to D2, and there shoot guys that don't do shit. Seems the ability is more useful that way. I hate scummy guys replacing though  Something like that game can happen, where Ver was scum, got replaced, and his replacement acted in a way that made him survive until end-game or something. That sucks. Yeah, well the confidence about surviving night is an inference rather than direct read. Its more the certainty of town night KP that clarifies him as jack > day-vig. Either way; i know not all town read and look for the same things.. But, that you could recall this post so quickly post-hoc gonzaw death; makes me curious. At the same time, i dont think scum would be trying to get involved in identifying the kill as assassin in play so quickly. Both of us made fallacious comments regarding the matter though; you on the day-vig requirements ; me with the jack jay-vig requirements. All in all: I think this exchange firms up my read on you.
What is my fallacious comment on day vig requirements?
On April 08 2013 13:13 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:On April 08 2013 13:03 Keirathi wrote:
Oh hmm. I guess you are right Sharrant. It specifically says that Jack skills are bound by the same rules as its regular counterparts.
I honestly hadn't thought about it, and assumed that Jack sent in day kills silently, since his night vig kills would be silent. Keirathi, pls comment on my reversal of sharrant, where he knew that the assassin was the logical choice. Yet didnt even know how day-vig worked etc. I admit it's weird. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:10 Sharrant wrote:On April 08 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:On April 08 2013 13:03 Keirathi wrote:
Oh hmm. I guess you are right Sharrant. It specifically says that Jack skills are bound by the same rules as its regular counterparts.
I honestly hadn't thought about it, and assumed that Jack sent in day kills silently, since his night vig kills would be silent. Keirathi, pls comment on my reversal of sharrant, where he knew that the assassin was the logical choice. Yet didnt even know how day-vig worked etc. I feel like you're trying to put suspicion on me, there's a reason I asked in the thread if day vig had to claim his shot. I was unaware of that restriction so thought dayvig could have been in play, but you said it couldn't have been because of the claim. So when Keirathi showed you were indeed correct, it showed that there was only one possible way he could have died, and you had enough information to know that too but you came to the wrong conclusion. Perhaps it was an earnest oversight on your part, but you should have known immediately. The fact you had referenced it so recently but failed to take it into consideration is suspicious. That you're trying to turn this around on me like that makes it doubly so to me. Then why are you not pressuring me? I also said that NRA was a possibility, and I'm the one that told you that day-vig had to type it in thread. But that's mostly irrelevant. The bigger question is why were you thinking so hard about what gonzaw's role was in the post you quoted?
I specifically asked you about the day vig requirements, that's why. It came across to me as very unlikely that he could propose an idea on what happened when his entire idea is proven wrong by a piece of knowledge he already used in that same idea. IE Knowing that Gonzaw could not have been dayvigged because there was no shot in the thread, but not knowing that Gonzaw could not have shot because he did not write it in the thread. But you never stated anything similar, I had no reason to believe you had thought about that at the time, and it seems like you overlooked it both ways as opposed to in just one.
And to answer your question, that was not thinking very hard. It was just fairly obvious as soon as he stated he would most likely withhold his shot. If he had no protection or night shot then he was forced to shoot today or have wasted his role. I think it's pretty simple to deduce from that post.
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On April 08 2013 13:23 yamato77 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 13:18 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:13 yamato77 wrote:
It doesn't matter what killed him, it matters why.
Gonzaw was killed because he was obviously town and people were forming around him. What did he advocate? Killing artanis. Let's murder him. Sentiment is fine.. but i need to extend the thoughts as per: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:03 Mocsta wrote:
Now anways, lets get this show back on track.
Gonzaw was a good scum hit; the timing is what is interesting.
Are they trying to force us onto VE, because it happened when we were talking about him?
hmmm.. for now, i want to maintain the legacy Gonzaw started.
We keep the lynch on Artanis[Xp] The posts identifying Gonzaw as "jack" were from ~8hrs ago. i.e. He could have been killed anytime between 8hrs ago, and just before the cycle finished. If they wanted to kill him due to the artanis case.. well... its odd they waited so long. and I choose not to use timezone as a reason for delay. The thread topic at the time was: Geript/VE NRA item. Which was potentially juicy enough to get a wagon off Artanis Im saying this all this, because if Artanis (who we are lynching) flips red.. im inclined to think VE is town. 1) You don't know when the shot was sent.
Touche, and fair point. Using that, OK, I can agree the VE heuristic is flawed.
Shame, because the timing was impeccable.
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11589 Posts
So people that look terrible to me right now:
Sinani
VE
Artanis
MZ
I'm downgrading Palmar to simply a null read. He doesn't care about looking town, and him posting isn't indicative of anything. I'd shoot/check him.
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I have the exact opposite read on this. Yes, I agree that they killed Gonzaw because he was active and we were forming around him, but I think this implicates VE far more than Artanis.
I first considering VE going for NRA when I reread his filter from this post:
On April 05 2013 11:55 VisceraEyes wrote:Now, I fully did NOT expect to be so high in the draft. As a result, I'm ill-prepared. On the one hand, I promised myself that if I was in the top 10 I'd try for a specific role. On the other hand, being SO high up makes me a good counter-picking candidate. However considering my low thread presence this game, I can understand reservations with this.
Of the top 5, I didn't think that either Rayn or Sno would take NRA member. I can't rule it out but it would seem exceptionally odd. I imagine that OO would take something else. The two who I could realistically see taking it are Sinani and VE. For me, VE confirmed it with this exchange:
On April 07 2013 04:40 geript wrote:
VE I know you picked out of fear. Why?
On April 07 2013 04:47 VisceraEyes wrote:
What are you referring to?
On April 07 2013 04:50 geript wrote:
Your role.
On April 07 2013 04:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh cool, and you want to out my role to the thread. Neat.
Seriously fuck this game.
He acknowledges that in a sense that I both know his role and that he picked his role out of fear. That leads primarily to VE being the NRA member. Even Gonzaw agreed with me.
QUOTE]On April 08 2013 12:13 gonzaw wrote:
There's a chance Sno or sinani took NRA member...
....goddamn now I feel so much better for not shooting either of them yet :/
The NRA member out of them and VE could claim, although it does seem it's likely VE.
For anyone at 1-5 place taking NRA member....it's weird as fuck if they are town. At that stage you wouldn't take NRA member I think. Oh well, geript did, but geript tried to be townie so it makes sense (neither sinani/Sno/VE tried to be townie, and I'd say OO and rayn don't seem to me like they'd take NRA member either if they are town).
[/QUOTE]
Think with your head. You're being stupid Moc. This was not a kill to since Gonzaw from continuing on the Artanis train. I have a strong feeling like Artanis is town, I need to reread the cases and points again and his responses, but this kill has nothing to implicate Artanis.
Right now, I need to reread and reevaluate my reads.
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11589 Posts
I don't feel like there's much of a difference between Artanis and VE
Oats is someone I want to look at, too. Gonna look at LIX and see what's up with his mafia game. I have a bad habit of not paying attention to him.
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I'm going to go to bed after this post. I'm too excited to look at things clearly, so I'm not sure if I'm jumping down Mocsta's throat over an earnest mistake, or if I have caught him in a slip, I need time to think about that.
Before I go, I think it's important to mention, everyone seems to be really focusing this onto Artanis, and saying that his suspicion on Artanis is the reason he was killed. I'm not so sure I agree with that, yes, he was pushing Artanis and VE, but at the same time if this is just a blue snipe this has the potential to lead us into mislynches.
Everyone should take the time to consider and reconsider whether they believe he was killed because they could figure out his role AND he was pushing mafia, whether he was killed because they figured out his role and wanted a blue snipe, or whether they killed him because they figured out his role and he was pushing mislynches and it would lock the town in on those mislynches.
In either case they knew his role before killing him, you have to factor that in. They knew that no matter the repurcussions of the kill, they knew that they were killing a very strong town role.
Good night, everyone. If I get back on in the next half an hour, please tell me to go to sleep.
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On April 08 2013 13:24 Sharrant wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 13:11 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:03 Sharrant wrote:This is the post where I knew with 100% certainty that he was the Jack. Scum should've known right then too. He's confident he can save his shot for tomorrow even having already said he could day vig. If I were in his position I'd be 100% sure that I don't live to see tomorrow. He's 100% confident that the town has at least 1 night vig shot. Jack is the only KP role that would let him live the night, and let him day vig. It was the only thing that fit how he was playing. On April 08 2013 11:12 gonzaw wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 11:06 yamato77 wrote:
Gonzaw, what do you think about killing sinani? Hmm, not that convinced right now. If he's town that'd be better than a misslynch though.... ...but if that's what should happen, it'd be better to let him live until D2 at least...and maybe shoot him there I won't shoot anybody that hasn't had a chance to "redeem" themselves yet. Sno being so damn awful could be tied to IRL stuff. I mean, he hasn't even voted yet, he may even get replaced/modkill. BC was seeking a replacement in the "Player Replacement" thread, and so far it seems Snoman is the one fitting that bill. He damn sure looks scummy though, but I'd wait until he shows up to do any shit and analyze what he does, or for his replacement to get here and analyze what he does (knowing that his predecessor was scummy as fuck) We can just vig him at night, either he if he just comes here to avoid modkill and does shit all, or his replacement if he gets replaced. I can save my day KP to D2, and there shoot guys that don't do shit. Seems the ability is more useful that way. I hate scummy guys replacing though Something like that game can happen, where Ver was scum, got replaced, and his replacement acted in a way that made him survive until end-game or something. That sucks. Yeah, well the confidence about surviving night is an inference rather than direct read. Its more the certainty of town night KP that clarifies him as jack > day-vig. Either way; i know not all town read and look for the same things.. But, that you could recall this post so quickly post-hoc gonzaw death; makes me curious. At the same time, i dont think scum would be trying to get involved in identifying the kill as assassin in play so quickly. Both of us made fallacious comments regarding the matter though; you on the day-vig requirements ; me with the jack jay-vig requirements. All in all: I think this exchange firms up my read on you. What is my fallacious comment on day vig requirements?
What is fallacious is that you immediately jumped to a conclusion regarding the KP.
i.e You instantly knew it was from the assassin, yet, you did not understand how the day-vig operated.
It is fallacious because you are made a conclusion without grasping the full context of the situation.
It actually doesn't matter that you were right; because, originally, you were right for the wrong reasons.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 13:13 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:On April 08 2013 13:03 Keirathi wrote:
Oh hmm. I guess you are right Sharrant. It specifically says that Jack skills are bound by the same rules as its regular counterparts.
I honestly hadn't thought about it, and assumed that Jack sent in day kills silently, since his night vig kills would be silent. Keirathi, pls comment on my reversal of sharrant, where he knew that the assassin was the logical choice. Yet didnt even know how day-vig worked etc. I admit it's weird. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:10 Sharrant wrote:On April 08 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:On April 08 2013 13:03 Keirathi wrote:
Oh hmm. I guess you are right Sharrant. It specifically says that Jack skills are bound by the same rules as its regular counterparts.
I honestly hadn't thought about it, and assumed that Jack sent in day kills silently, since his night vig kills would be silent. Keirathi, pls comment on my reversal of sharrant, where he knew that the assassin was the logical choice. Yet didnt even know how day-vig worked etc. I feel like you're trying to put suspicion on me, there's a reason I asked in the thread if day vig had to claim his shot. I was unaware of that restriction so thought dayvig could have been in play, but you said it couldn't have been because of the claim. So when Keirathi showed you were indeed correct, it showed that there was only one possible way he could have died, and you had enough information to know that too but you came to the wrong conclusion. Perhaps it was an earnest oversight on your part, but you should have known immediately. The fact you had referenced it so recently but failed to take it into consideration is suspicious. That you're trying to turn this around on me like that makes it doubly so to me. Then why are you not pressuring me? I also said that NRA was a possibility, and I'm the one that told you that day-vig had to type it in thread. But that's mostly irrelevant. The bigger question is why were you thinking so hard about what gonzaw's role was in the post you quoted? I specifically asked you about the day vig requirements, that's why. It came across to me as very unlikely that he could propose an idea on what happened when his entire idea is proven wrong by a piece of knowledge he already used in that same idea. IE Knowing that Gonzaw could not have been dayvigged because there was no shot in the thread, but not knowing that Gonzaw could not have shot because he did not write it in the thread. But you never stated anything similar, I had no reason to believe you had thought about that at the time, and it seems like you overlooked it both ways as opposed to in just one. And to answer your question, that was not thinking very hard. It was just fairly obvious as soon as he stated he would most likely withhold his shot. If he had no protection or night shot then he was forced to shoot today or have wasted his role. I think it's pretty simple to deduce from that post.
Im going to explain myself one last time, and then thats it. If you refuse to accept; then you are tunneled dear Sharrant.
Gonzaw died during the day.
I tried to figure out how he could die during the day, and listed roles.
I was looking at how gonzaw could die..... and wasnt considering how gonzaw could kill others.
i.e. gonzaw could die from NRA... i wasnt considering he had to initiate the visit by typing.
What dont you understand? If anything.. the authenticity of my actions regarding solving this make me confirmed town.
As I said before.. if you think i was trying to manipulate the thread into jumping all over NRA.. why would I say im looking for crumbs? and then before you accuse me of being scum... agree it was assassin?
You have a stupid fixation right now, and it needs to stop. This is shitting up the thread.
Im talking to you like this, because I think your actions/responses/pig-headed are indicative of town alignment.
If I thought you were scum, this exchange would be going down much different.
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11589 Posts
Stop talking about this dumb shit, Mocsta.
What's your read on Oats?
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On April 08 2013 13:24 Sharrant wrote:
IE Knowing that Gonzaw could not have been dayvigged because there was no shot in the thread, but not knowing that Gonzaw could not have shot because he did not write it in the thread. But you never stated anything similar
What? That's exactly what I said, in not so many words.
I thought NRA was a perfectly possibly explanation for why gonzaw was dead, meaning that I thought gonzaw shot and hit NRA. You're right, I didn't think about gonzaw having to use a Jack day-vig in the thread, but I said basically the exact same thing mocsta did.
On April 08 2013 13:24 Sharrant wrote:
And to answer your question, that was not thinking very hard. It was just fairly obvious as soon as he stated he would most likely withhold his shot. If he had no protection or night shot then he was forced to shoot today or have wasted his role. I think it's pretty simple to deduce from that post.
Meh, whatever. This point is hard to argue, I just think it's weird that you put enough thought into it to correctly deduce that he was Jack. Because when I saw all his posts claiming to have day KP, I didn't care at all about what his role was. I personally spent some time trying to figure out if I thought he was town or not, and once I decided that he probably was I quit thinking about his role because it didn't concern me.
Just weird. Mental bookmark for later, if needed.
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On April 08 2013 13:23 yamato77 wrote:
1) You don't know when the shot was sent.
This point is very valid, we don't know the exact timing of the knifing (it was assassin which uses knives), but it's pretty safe to assume that it was relatively recent. So perhaps it doesn't implicate Artanis or VE as much as thought and is just a 'freebie kill.' If that's the case then why not go for the freebie kill on me? Killing me directly implicates VE as a safe lynch and if VE is town, then it's absolutely amazing for scum as they both don't have to waste night KP on him and they remove a great analyst. Perhaps they want to remove the better player. I still think the kill makes it far more likely that VE is scum than Artanis.
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On April 08 2013 13:45 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:24 Sharrant wrote:
IE Knowing that Gonzaw could not have been dayvigged because there was no shot in the thread, but not knowing that Gonzaw could not have shot because he did not write it in the thread. But you never stated anything similar What? That's exactly what I said, in not so many words. I thought NRA was a perfectly possibly explanation for why gonzaw was dead, meaning that I thought gonzaw shot and hit NRA. You're right, I didn't think about gonzaw having to use a Jack day-vig in the thread, but I said basically the exact same thing mocsta did. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:24 Sharrant wrote:
And to answer your question, that was not thinking very hard. It was just fairly obvious as soon as he stated he would most likely withhold his shot. If he had no protection or night shot then he was forced to shoot today or have wasted his role. I think it's pretty simple to deduce from that post.
Meh, whatever. This point is hard to argue, I just think it's weird that you put enough thought into it to correctly deduce that he was Jack. Because when I saw all his posts claiming to have day KP, I didn't care at all about what his role was. I personally spent some time trying to figure out if I thought he was town or not, and once I decided that he probably was I quit thinking about his role because it didn't concern me. Just weird. Mental bookmark for later, if needed.
Ah, I actually missed that post because it came after I had already accused Mocsta. That does make me think more likely it was just a mistake from Mocsta and not something malicious.
Good night for realzies this time.
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On April 08 2013 11:21 Sharrant wrote:@StrongandBig Hi! I'll try and give you a sort of stream of consciousness on this one, and hopefully that will actually help me figure out where I stand on him. I've read through his filter a few times and I always notice things that send me in opposite directions on his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:Okay duders, raid night is over. Going for a quick re-read of the past half day after I post this since I've been tabbing out to catch what I could during down time. First impressions: I saw that Oats is/was under some suspicion (just going from memory, don't recall if it was talked out or not) but Oats is Oats; he's a bit all over the place but I don't see the same intent to shut things down that someone mentioned earlier. He was just as loud and all-over in RED. Null still. RO seems to want to be more helpful than I remember him being as scum in LX, not feeling what you guys that are suspicious of him are feeling there, either. Got my eye on Rayn at the moment. His style was spammy but usually constructive (at least in telling us what he was thinking) and I've got none of that after the first couple pages of his filter. Ten one-liners in a row or something, doesn't match up to his standard attacking pattern from RED. The attacks there were thought-out, here they mostly look like casual accusations perhaps fishing for reactions? The only points he has going for him is that he's absolutely confused about what is going on regarding the draft process: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should we have our roles by now? Rayn, if you are serious about RO being scum then lay if out for me in one clean concise post, and if you are not, who are you most suspicious of right now? Or are you just drunk again?
Other stuff: Most of the chat was about planning how to set up the top spots to get roles protected, is that still a thing? I'm spot 2 somehow, and I was thinking about taking America because America, fuck yeah! Is that going to make me a Pariah or something? Girls just wanna have fun, you know? I'll use it as a second lynch like was suggested yesterday or I can just sit on it if you guys are paranoid about it. Going back for that re-read and making some coffee. See you in a bit when I'm finished with that. PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! This post felt very airy, it certainly felt to me like a post that was primarily summation. There are some good questions in there, but there's no hard stances. The closest he comes to that is that he says he's got his eye on Rayn, but then never specifically says he was scummy. Points out he doesn't give fit his previous town meta, but then he gives him an out on it anyways saying that he might be fishing for reactions. I actually noticed something that really has me leaning towards scum on him now. He makes 2 posts specifically stating for people not to spam, and has several posts insulting BM for making small spammy posts with no content. I read this as townie when I first skimmed through his filter, but looking at it again There's something very wrong. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:.
PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. Look at his posts: + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:59 Restraining Order wrote:In fact, I'm just going to quote myself on this matter. On April 05 2013 11:30 Restraining Order wrote:
Pick assassin and try to kill me with please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth. Wouldn't be a problem if you'd actually think I'm mafia  I'll indulge your soft town claim for a moment and simply ask you why your list contains 9 people. If you can justify all 9 in some way at least we'll know whether or not you're talking the breeze with these myriad suspicions. On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. On April 06 2013 10:08 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:06 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. No, it's 9. I have no idea where VE got the Caller thing from, and it's sad you just take his word. If I've misread it please tell me how. It won't be the first time. I spent like 24 hours in Fruity misreading every little thing so just straighten me out instead of spitting in my face, thx. On April 06 2013 10:09 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Actually I misread the quote-pyramid. He was saying he wanted to lynch Kier when I thought he was replying to Caller. My mistake. .... On April 06 2013 11:28 ObviousOne wrote:
WTF are all these random ass reads BM? Is this what you always do? On April 06 2013 11:38 ObviousOne wrote:RIGHT ABOUT WHAT PLEASE TYPE MORE JESUS FUCK On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote:... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote:I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before?
...
Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. On April 06 2013 13:57 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:54 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote:@ArtanisXpI would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case. Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows: + Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] +On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this?
WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: + Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] +On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
[red]Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play?
Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:
Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. town are more likely to flip flop than mafia On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:26 Bill Murray wrote:
meta Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? AustinMCC at this point is betraying his blue meta as a lurker that I've seen He had a plan that would help the mafia, too, in regards to town picking from the mafia role list It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the mafia have taken from more "town" roles than "mafia" ones By that token, I don't expect there is a Godfather So do you know who is mafia or are you saying AustinMCC is a town read of yours? ALL of those posts were one after another. They're spread out over 4 hours, but it's 11 posts that are almost entirely one liners, some without even any text. Yet he was saying don't spam, make good quality posts. Why wasn't he doing that too? + Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 08:24 ObviousOne wrote:
Also sorry to dine and dash but my cousin wants to hang out, back in a few hours if I manage to be wakeful when I get home.
Oh, gotta vote too. On April 08 2013 09:58 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 09:54 Palmar wrote:
I think it's mafia defending me, I look too scummy for townies to defend me.
why is there no machine gun role that can kill like 8 people on day 1, I'd have liked that.
Also there really is not enough killing this game. Bored Walk Empire Mafiyawn: Pull Your Pud =[ On April 08 2013 10:25 ObviousOne wrote:
Undertaker 21-0
GG no RE On April 08 2013 10:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:30 strongandbig wrote:On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. hi sharrant i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together. that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game? Commercial break. Come at me bro. On April 08 2013 10:46 ObviousOne wrote:
Mocsta. I love you dearly. Please make paragraphs.
Or
I'll
Do
This
Just
To
Explain
Why
It's
Annoying
And
Difficult
To
Read. On April 08 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote:
@Mocsta
<3 never change Look at all the spam there. And the kicker, Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:28 ObviousOne wrote:On April 08 2013 10:24 Mocsta wrote:
Gonzaw
Unrelated question.
Do you think I spamming up the thread?
I am asking because my last couple posts have all been big text walls; and not sure if Im getting my message across succinctly at the moment.
Who cares at this point. Give the lurkers a shit load of posts to read when they get back. Let them cry. Let them complain. They will sheep anyway. Your question wouldn't even be relevant if everyone was participating. Be the Mocsta we know and love. Fuck the haters. Straight up saying to spam. Call it a joke, or whatever, but that kind of conflicting mindset isn't townie. ##vote: ObviousOneYou can't stay in line with your own thinking at all, I think that's because you're scum.
thanks!
here's mine
OO's artanis case:
- most of the traits he picks out are not mutually exclusive or alignment indicative
- no attempt to explain the connection between his "meta research" and the conclusion at the end of his post
- most of the things he highlights about artanis in tl mafia 51 are equally likely to be explained by the fact that it was a large game as the fact that he was scum
- basically the only real points he makes are that artanis has not posted much and that artanis is missing the "edge of sarcasm" that he has as town
- imo nebulousthings like the "edge of sarcasm" are equally likely explained by confirmation bias as by them being real, especially when they're just asserted without quotes
so what does this mean about oo's alignment?
- first, the actual fact that the case is qwrong doesn't mean anything aboput it. townies make wrong cases
- second, however, the fact that oo went to all the trouble of highlighting trhe stuff he read from artanis's old games, but then didn't actually draw any conclusions from it but ended up making exactly the same points gonzaw did, makes me think he cares more about the appearance of effort than actually getting anything out of the effort itself. diong all that work to read all those filters and making a list fo traits and then ignoring that list when he makes his final analysis just really doesnt make much sense ot me from a townie pov.
- that said, i got exactly the same feeling about oo in RED mafia just now and he flipped town. so i'm hesitant to put too much weight on this point wrt him specifically. basically what i learned from RED mafia about him is that it's entirely possible for him to put in a shitload of effort and not actually get anything useful out of it.
- so conclusion: very weak but lean scum.
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On April 08 2013 13:34 geript wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I have the exact opposite read on this. Yes, I agree that they killed Gonzaw because he was active and we were forming around him, but I think this implicates VE far more than Artanis. I first considering VE going for NRA when I reread his filter from this post: On April 05 2013 11:55 VisceraEyes wrote:Now, I fully did NOT expect to be so high in the draft. As a result, I'm ill-prepared. On the one hand, I promised myself that if I was in the top 10 I'd try for a specific role. On the other hand, being SO high up makes me a good counter-picking candidate. However considering my low thread presence this game, I can understand reservations with this.
Of the top 5, I didn't think that either Rayn or Sno would take NRA member. I can't rule it out but it would seem exceptionally odd. I imagine that OO would take something else. The two who I could realistically see taking it are Sinani and VE. For me, VE confirmed it with this exchange: On April 07 2013 04:40 geript wrote:
VE I know you picked out of fear. Why?
On April 07 2013 04:47 VisceraEyes wrote:
What are you referring to? On April 07 2013 04:50 geript wrote:
Your role. On April 07 2013 04:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh cool, and you want to out my role to the thread. Neat.
Seriously fuck this game. He acknowledges that in a sense that I both know his role and that he picked his role out of fear. That leads primarily to VE being the NRA member. Even Gonzaw agreed with me. On April 08 2013 12:13 gonzaw wrote:
There's a chance Sno or sinani took NRA member...
....goddamn now I feel so much better for not shooting either of them yet :/
The NRA member out of them and VE could claim, although it does seem it's likely VE.
For anyone at 1-5 place taking NRA member....it's weird as fuck if they are town. At that stage you wouldn't take NRA member I think. Oh well, geript did, but geript tried to be townie so it makes sense (neither sinani/Sno/VE tried to be townie, and I'd say OO and rayn don't seem to me like they'd take NRA member either if they are town).
Think with your head. You're being stupid Moc. This was not a kill to since Gonzaw from continuing on the Artanis train. I have a strong feeling like Artanis is town, I need to reread the cases and points again and his responses, but this kill has nothing to implicate Artanis. Geript, it is fantastic you have made it clear you think VE is scum.
There is no doubt that the entire thread knows your stance.
The issue is: VE has not added anything new to the table. Either in response to your qualms, or the thread sentiment.
Inactivity is not a scum tell, and your case is based on early play; so is not the strongest indicator.
Yes I expect more from VE; Yes I like your case on VE, [b]BUT[B/] we can only lynch one person a cycle.
The evidence is much harder; much more recent; and much more damning on Artanis[Xp].
Im also getting tired off you beating the same old drum repeatedly. Yes you need to stay on a scum target; but, VE is clearly not reciprocating. You need to find an alternative target to pass the time, whilst VE is not present.
I'm not against a VE lynch, heck, theres a very high chance both VE/Artanis are scum. Henceforth, VE would be more sound due to the possiblity of holding the highly valued NRA role. However, your train of thought is that Artanis is town.
I am curious to hear the reasonings when you have completed your read.
Unfortunately, it also places your VE read into jeopardy.
Why?
Because, the whole scenario reads as if you are so tunneled into VE being scum that you are willing to ignore everything else to secure your lynch. In fact, it actually reads more as a personal vendetta/challenge, than a genuine attempt to help town lynch scum.
Thus, with the "blinkers" on, can we even trust that VE is scum based on your logic? This is exacerbated by your rash claim that Artanis[Xp] is town.
Further, consider what Keirathi stated early Day 0. NRA is desirable for both alignments, and thus, does not add anything to your early case.
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we can wifom what scum want us to think by the gonzaw kill from here till kingdom come but we won't get anywhere. Ultimately we need to stick with artanis as he has been consistently scummy and pushed by a now confirmed townie.
@Yamato. I'm really tired with you calling me scum and never backing it up, come up with some reasons or shut up.
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On April 08 2013 13:41 yamato77 wrote:
Stop talking about this dumb shit, Mocsta.
What's your read on Oats?
Dick fuck. Someone is calling me scum. Repeatedly.
Dont tell me to stop talking about it. Tell him.
My latest read on Oats is here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=74#1464
For your benefit
+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 09:33 Mocsta wrote:(3) Oats is starting to really cross the line for me from town -> null; possibly approaching slightly leaning scum. He has been nothing but disruptive; continuously cock-blocking scum hunting, to then throw a blanket "Vivax is scum" statement. The below is not a case; I just want to hear opinions on whether I am taking this interaction personally, or whether it indeed conflicts. Exhibit AShow nested quote +On April 07 2013 16:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Gonzaw you understand what I mean by GUT READ? (it means I felt that he was town reading the thread.) I agree that artanis looks scummy.I still want to lynch Vivax though, Im way more familar with his play and this does not feel like his town play. Also he is scummy!?!?! (so wishywashy right? ) Oats stance is clear: Thinks Artanis looks scummy; and then still wants to push the unfounded Vivax lynch.
Exhibit BShow nested quote +On April 07 2013 20:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lol just read Artanis' reply.
MTG was a 9 player mini bro.
Scum dont bus each other
They dont. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 22:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
Artanis do you have reads?
defending yourself is fine and all but I prefer reads. To me its ambiguous how deep Oats finds Artanis scummy. The tone seems jovial; however, the words express suspicion. I find this interaction just weird overall. If i haphazard a guess; I would stick with the Exhibit A read: i.e. he finds him scummy.
Exhibit CShow nested quote +On April 07 2013 23:21 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 07 2013 22:58 Mocsta wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Regard Artanis] +
P.s.
U r right. Ur response was fine, it indeed made a effort to address each point.
Its why I have no requirement to question u further.
Its simple. The retort to gonzaw case was written from a scummy viewpoint.
Its obvious u put in effort. Unfortunately u couldn't remove yourself from the Mafia mindset.
Ur retort makes it clear u are doing things for town cred and are fully aware of how ur actions are perceived.
But in general the whole tone taken for the defence is of a guy with inherent guilt.
I'm going to bed. Will re read the exchange in the morning. But I'm pretty sure I'm going to get the same vibe.
That u so scummy.
Nite
*About Artanis[Xp]*Rid yourself of the fucking confirmation bias you have. You do the whole part about 'looking' townie as town too. To get influence to push your reads? Hmm? He is saying, I am confirmation biased for pushing Artanis as scum ?!?! Lets go back to Exhibit A please: " I agree that artanis looks scummy." This is quite a bizarre statement. Even in conjunction with Exhibit B, there is not enough doubt from Oats regarding Artanis alignment to suddenly think he is a town read. Even if he is making this post to attack my character; and not actually comment on this thoughts on Artanis.. what is the point regardless? Im pushing someone, he admitted he thinks looks scummy. I can't fathom what he is trying to achieve other than a "cock-block" by making that post.
Exhibit DShow nested quote +On April 08 2013 01:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
why do you care about the numbers Vivax?
Work for the scum that cant find work? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 03:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax why do you need to explain a simple thing like
'Why are you voting for your scumreads scumread?'
Its not that hard, Is it? Or are you avoiding talking about anything else?
This is Oats addressing his #1 scumspect that has reentered the thread. To me: this doesnt read as a person critically challenging his scum target. Now those that know Oats, knows 90% of his questions are useless and have no actual purpose; so I wont hold this interaction against him. The problem is the follow exhibit.
Exhibit EShow nested quote +On April 08 2013 04:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im up for a lynch.
ANY LYNCH
prefer vivax.
Artanis works
##Vote: Artanis He says he prefers Vivax (which is fine follow through).. yet bandwagons on Artanis? LIke WTF? It hasnt even been clear Oats is a staunch supporter of the artanis wagon; yet, now jumps on. This is after Exhibit C, where he tries to ridicule me for being the first supporter (after Gonzaw) on the Artanis wagon?
I asked ppl to comment, no one did.
You know Oats as well as I, so would appreciate your feedback.
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the people saying gonzaw was killed to help keep artanis alive are stupid, there's no way that would work.
wifomwifomwifom
more likely that he was killed because one of his "potential dayvig targets" is scum?
or just because scum figured out his role and decided to kill him while they could?
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Not interested in Oats at all.
Sometime I learned from the last 2 games where Oats was town and I lynched him (or at least, really wanted to): when Oats is in your face and every post he makes is annoying and you want to e-punch him, he's probably town.
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On April 08 2013 13:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
we can wifom what scum want us to think by the gonzaw kill from here till kingdom come but we won't get anywhere. Ultimately we need to stick with artanis as he has been consistently scummy and pushed by a now confirmed townie.
@Yamato. I'm really tired with you calling me scum and never backing it up, come up with some reasons or shut up.
Read on Yam pls.
Town, null, scum?
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On April 08 2013 14:01 Keirathi wrote:
Not interested in Oats at all.
Sometime I learned from the last 2 games where Oats was town and I lynched him (or at least, really wanted to): when Oats is in your face and every post he makes is annoying and you want to e-punch him, he's probably town.
I agree, in particular about the e-punch.
But, i also find him traditionally more helpful early game.
By end game he is an blatant sheeper. Perhaps hes just still looking for a shepherd.
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EPT
