EPTBoardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 81
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geript
10024 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Yes artanis may be/probably is scum, that doesnt suddenly make your argument better. It was bad reasoning and I shut it down. Good. Hmm. I really cant get anything from the past 10 pages. Too many long words and not many opinions. fuk you guys. Just hammer artanis, and we can CONTINUE the SEARCH for THE scum. (1 at a time boyos, 1 at a time) <3 you gonzaw, may you never roll scum  Ill be back in 6 hours. SEE YA | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
He's an idiot for one, right now I have a lot of people (Artanis, Shevlocke, Vivax, Sharrant, VE etc.) who I care more about than yamato. He's been largely afk after an active start. I hate using this because I feel like it's a cop out but I'm just gonna put him as null and come back to it when it actually matters. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On April 08 2013 14:10 geript wrote: @Moc Could you explain what you meant by how Artanis defended himself he couldn't remove the mafia mindset? Sure. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=66#1315 Yea in short, he chooses to asphyxiate himself onto keywords in each section; rather than address the whole argument. He tries to blow up the small meaningless items out out of proportions; and ignores many of the key issues. Because Im bored, I will share my thoughts on his retort (even though I have plenty of posts detailing the matter later on) + Show Spoiler + (1) Introduction Gonzaw keypoint: "The active players, criticised ideas and tried to move town forward" Artanis: I pushed RNG => I was productive. This doesnt even tackle the crux of what Gonzaw said. Artanis concept of pushing the case is: "I pushed it when people weren't discussing it and asked people how they felt about it". Thats not pushing anything, that is just bringing something to to attention and trying to satisfy the town check list. He never tried to gain traction with the plan; the "pipe ups to be heard" lacked conviction - which even his biggest advocate (AustinMCC) admitted. Thus; whilst the plan was pro-town in nature, Artanis was not actually a great productive asset to town. e.g. Just because a townie has the right read on a scummer, doesnt make the townie useful. He still needs to convince everyone that the particular target is scum. Artanis failed miserably in this regard. Further, him criticising yamto is not a town tell. Scum have just as much want to control the flow of town, especially early game. (2) "Hiding in plain sight" via set discussion (a) Gonzaw keypoint: "For instance, take yamatos filter as comparison. See how he approaches the discussion about role picking. Now check how Artanis approaches said discussion" Artanis: completely ignores the key point to say: "I am contributing. Therefore, he stands by: having an idea, and bringing it to the fore makes him town. - which is complete crap. (b) Gonzaw keypoint: "This is a fact: Artanis chimed in with setup discssuion, and even proposed a "pro-town plan", yet he had absolutely no impact in the game at all. He was just a passenger int he thread discussion." Artanis: Admits all he did for this plan was "ask" for it to take off. Then gives excuses to why it shouldnt matter it didnt take off. He doesnt comment on having no impact in the game; and instead chooses to come up with reasons for why the plan failed to gain traction; where all the reasons are not his fault. Yet ignores the simplest one, that gives him accountability. He lacked conviction, and never tried to elicit genuine reactions. (3) Unnecessary complaints that happen out of place (a) Gonzaw keypoint: "Complains about thread sentiment to then say how good his idea is.. but still not trying to get it endorsed" Artanis: Makes it clear I want people to talk about it If I had a plan, i dont care about that.. I want my plan to take off.. here is a clear mafia mindset; I have an idea and want it discussed.. but i have no intention of doing anything with it. (b) Gonzaw keypoint: "Talks sparsely about many topics, to give the impression of keeping up with the thread" Artanis: Thinks he says very much with a little words (completely missing the point). Then throws in the newbie card as well, saying hes not experienced in this style yet. (4) Geript case (a) Gonzaw keypoint: the case is a dud Artanis: "i also presented my suspicions a bit stronger than they were because i wanted people to actually pay attention to them" Which is funny, because why couldnt he do this with RNG plan? Which he "truly believed in"??? That my friends, *is* a scum slip. After further prodding, he adds in "but thats wrong. It IS something I believed in".. odd because above, he says he presented stronger than he thought it was. Conflict in story. (5) Aggressive "fake" behaviour Gonzaw keypoint: overtly ad-hominem" Artanis: says his aggression is pressure.. which isnt the point. There is townie confident pressure. and there is scum overly antagonistic pressure. I know this, because when im scum; I get a feeling over me to be antagonistic and put ppl down a lot more and call out stupid things. This is the whole ad-hominem side of things. Now many disagreed with this section; because yes, a townie full of fury can go full ad-hom. But, typically there is a distinct build up to this point. Artanis is quite calm, and as soon as he sees something he latches onto; changes personality to ad-hom. This is completely ignored by his rebuttle. (6) Other stuff Gonzaw keypoint: flying under radar Artanis: completely ignores the point; and says "yeah scum never mention scumbuddies" is wifom. Whether true or not, doesnt address that artanis is flying under the radar. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 08 2013 14:36 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: He's an idiot for one, right now I have a lot of people (Artanis, Shevlocke, Vivax, Sharrant, VE etc.) who I care more about than yamato. He's been largely afk after an active start. I hate using this because I feel like it's a cop out but I'm just gonna put him as null and come back to it when it actually matters. I have you as scum because you're commenting on me calling you scum a million times and yet your contributions to anything in the thread are shallow at best. Do something. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
So...there's a lot to take in. I know I'm not much of a presence in this game, but I seriously need to reread everything before I post again. My initial thoughts before doing so: scum trying to set me up maybe? -.- God I look horrible. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On April 08 2013 15:13 VisceraEyes wrote: I just got back and wow. Jesus. So...there's a lot to take in. I know I'm not much of a presence in this game, but I seriously need to reread everything before I post again. My initial thoughts before doing so: scum trying to set me up maybe? -.- God I look horrible. *Fluff* This post reminds me of your reaction to Snarfs when he proceeded to bus you without your consent in Nomination Mafia. Enjoy the catchup read. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On April 08 2013 14:59 yamato77 wrote: I have you as scum because you're commenting on me calling you scum a million times and yet your contributions to anything in the thread are shallow at best. Do something. eh I guess you're still stupid. Of course I'm commenting on you calling me scum, you've called me scum but never justified it, your reasons for calling me scum are self fulfilling. I've contributed ten times more than you have to the actual relevant discussion that has occurred today. Done talking to you until you can either a) write an actual case about me or b) come up with some interesting reads (other than sheeping me and gonzaw on artanis). | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On April 08 2013 15:26 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: eh I guess you're still stupid. Of course I'm commenting on you calling me scum, you've called me scum but never justified it, your reasons for calling me scum are self fulfilling. I've contributed ten times more than you have to the actual relevant discussion that has occurred today. Done talking to you until you can either a) write an actual case about me or b) come up with some interesting reads (other than sheeping me and gonzaw on artanis). This whole exchange is weird, and is primarily the reason I asked for your read on Yam. You see, when I read this: I get the feeling you are talking to someone that you believe is town. Yet you called him null. Its a similar interaction to how I talk to Oats when I think he is town.. annoys the fuck out of me, but you accept it. | ||
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Shelvocke
Grenada70 Posts
On April 08 2013 09:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: No. I want to know why Shelvocke thinks i'm town. Read my filter: + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 15:33 Shelvocke wrote: I don't really think rayn is mafia. His play does look different from those town quotes you had, but it doesn't look like that mafia game either. The only part of that game where he just suddenly jumps is the part where he votes for Krefla and even then he has a reason because Krefla just came in right before the deadline. The fact that he seems a lot more impulsive in this game than he has been before is something that points to him being town. I feel he would be a lot more careful and safe as mafia. The plan switch looks kind of strange, but his overall attitude makes him more likely town. On April 07 2013 15:52 Shelvocke wrote: I get what you're saying, but I've never seen a new mafia player be so crazy. I don't really understand the reasons for some of the stuff he does but it seems to me that he sees one post and then just makes up his mind based on that. Usually new mafia are much more safe and concerned about their appearance. It's possible he's some kind of mafia gosu but frankly that's not the impression I get from him. Something about this situation really strikes me the wrong way. There was still plenty of time left in the day and an Artanis lynch was nowhere certain. Like shooting gonzaw pretty much guarantees an Artanis lynch and I can't think of a good reason for mafia to do that if Artanis is mafia. I'm rereading the thread right now. Not entirely sure who to kill right now, but it's not Artanis. ##Unvote | ||
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Shelvocke
Grenada70 Posts
On April 08 2013 12:33 yamato77 wrote: Now we definitely kill the Artanis. On April 08 2013 13:13 yamato77 wrote: It doesn't matter what killed him, it matters why. Gonzaw was killed because he was obviously town and people were forming around him. What did he advocate? Killing artanis. Let's murder him. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
You seem to realize that I think we should look at who Gonzaw wanted dead. Why is that something worth questioning? Don't you think it's certainly possible that Gonzaw was killed precisely because people were forming around him, and he was on the right track? Isn't that how mafia usually operate? Furthermore, do you think I'm mafia? Because if you don't, where are you going with this? Do honest analysis of Artanis. Why do you suddenly doubt that he's a good lynch? The reason you give for unvoting him is a bunch of inconclusive WIFOM. It seems to me like you're attempting to throw enough doubt on me to get people off of Artanis because of how much I want to see him dead. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 08 2013 16:13 Shelvocke wrote: VE, what's your first reaction when you read these posts? And why the fuck are you asking VE for his opinion of these posts when you think he's mafia? Where did that VE read go, by the way? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On April 06 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM? Artanis[Xp] Want to give a read on Vivax pl0x. Even though this comment was a figure of speech, Vivax is in this game. | ||
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Shelvocke
Grenada70 Posts
Did you shoot gonzaw, yamato? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 08 2013 16:57 Shelvocke wrote: I'm asking VE because I want to hear from him and because he has personal experience with this kind of thing. Did you shoot gonzaw, yamato? No...? | ||
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Shelvocke
Grenada70 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 08 2013 17:18 Shelvocke wrote: I think yamato shot gonzaw. I can't prove it, but it's the explanation that makes best sense to me right now going by people's reactions. I'm not entirely sure if he's the kind of person who would do that as town, but just skimming through the last normalish town game of his (Town Aint Big Mafia), I think it's entirely possible. Going to sleep on this, but that's where I'm at right now. If I shot Gonzaw, you would know. And no, I wouldn't do that as town. I shoot lurky/trollish people. Vig shots are for unreadables. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 16:56 Mocsta wrote: Artanis[Xp] Want to give a read on Vivax pl0x. Even though this comment was a figure of speech, Vivax is in this game. I don't think Vivax is scum. I said that in my read summary earlier today. Also anyone that thinks I'm more suspicious for the flip (I'm looking at you Yamato) is being dumb. Assassin seems like the only way to kill town in this way. Can't be NRA since Gonzaw was still talking about who to hit, and the day vig requires you to post in thread. So apparently, scum knew that Gonzaw was a Jack. He also had a lot of town presence and discussion formed around him. How is killing a town leader with a strong role not reward enough on its own? I doubt it has anything to do with whether he was on the right track or not, it's simply a good kill that will disorganize town and have them waffling about stuff that isn't scumhunting. Shelvocke unvoting me out of nowhere.. is strange. I can't wrap my head around it. Why do so when I was his main scumread? Regarding OO's meta case, it's pretty awful. Correlation does not imply causation. My scum game is similar to this game because it was also a large game and I hate large games. With small games it's much easier to get a feel for everyone in the game. The reason I'm posting less is because I'm less motivated in large games, not because I'm scum. Yamato, you just said that the death of Gonzaw doesn't guarantee anything but the death of a town player. Then why was your first response "Now we definitely kill Artanis"? You're drawing conclusions from his death instantly, yet you showed unwillingness to draw conclusions from it just now. | ||
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