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![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/headbannermarch0ijpf.png) About me and the ranking+ Show Spoiler +Hi TeamLiquid (and reddit),
I'm DiaBoLuS, a german low gm protoss player in HotS and 6 time GM in WoL. I play sc2 since the release of the beta and I watch a shitton of professional SC2 – basically all major tournaments, many online cups and ladderstreams as well. Also, im obsessed with rankings!
Therefore, i post a foreigner rankings for about a year now, and i plan to keep posting rankings on a monthly basis in the future. When i talk about „Foreigners“, i exclude non-korean asian players (chinese, taiwanese), simply because I dont see enough of those scenes to rank them, and they dont participate in your regular major tournaments too often. So you may call it a „Western Foreigner Ranking“ if you so desire.
How do i make my ranking? Which criteria do i have? Well, here is a little list of what i look at, from important to less imporant:
- Major Tournament results of the month.
- My impression of the play: how did games look [impressive macrogames / lucky&cheesy], consistency, which opponents (bracket luck?) etc.
- Minor Tournemant / Online Tournament results of the month.
- Activity / Inactivity
- Tournament results of the past / Achievements.
- Ladder standing (bad or non existent stats have no negative value).
- Your votes and „TheBB's“ player rankings.
![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/1stephano81uxx.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/2naniwa1zu65.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/3ret1yuwr.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/4manav3u9i.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/5lucifron23uha.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/6nerchioezurj.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/7kas6vurc.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/8thorzainplu07.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/9scarlettozu5v.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/10vortixbauko.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/11sasemduer.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/12goswseri2uy0.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/13blybxuyx.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/14tlo3uu3t.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/15snutem7uac.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/16hasuobsyxusq.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/17hukdeu67.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/18demuslimn5u1d.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/19slivkos6u7r.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/20grubbyvaubj.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/21babyknightgbuix.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/22sockediul7.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/23killeryuu8j.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/24feast65u2r.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/25major2oub9.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/26moonglade24ua8.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/27titaneuu57.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/28suppye7u40.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/29sortofs5ujj.png) _ ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/30minigun7suaz.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/rank30-50n2ji2.png)  Zerg Dimaga LoWeLy ViBe XlorD IdrA ---- LiveZerg  Terran Strelok BratOK Happy ---- BeastyQt Illusion qxc theognis  Protoss Fraer monchi White-Ra ---- Welmu Bischu elfi ToD NightEnD Harstem BlinG Top 50 sorted by race Protoss + Show Spoiler +1) Naniwa (2)
2) MaNa (4)
3) SaSe (11)
4) HasuObs (16)
5) HuK (17)
6) Grubby (20)
7) BabyKnight (21)
8) Socke (22)
9) Feast (24)
10) TitaN (27)
11) Minigun (30)
12) Fraer, monchi, White-Ra (Top 40)
13) Welmu, Bischu, elfi, NightEnD, ToD, Harstem, Bling (Top 50)
1) Stephano (1)
2) Ret (3)
3) Nerchio (6)
4) Scarlett (9)
5) Vortix (10)
6) goswser (12)
7) Bly (13)
8) TLO (14)
9) Snute (15)
10) sLivko (19)
11) KiLLeR (23)
12) mOOnGlaDe (26)
13) Suppy (28)
14) SortOf (29)
15) Dimaga, LoWeLy, ViBe, XlorD, IdrA (Top 40)
16) LiveZerg (Top 50) 1) Lucifron (5)
2) Kas (7)
3) ThorZaiN (8)
4) DeMusliM (18)
5) MajOr (25)
6) Strelok, BratOK, Happy (Top 40)
7) Illusion, BeastyQt, qxc, theognis (Top 50) ![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/votesizkeh.png) TOP 10+ Show Spoiler +Poll: Top 10: Most overrated?Naniwa (9) 24% Stephano (7) 18% Scarlett (6) 16% Ret (5) 13% Mana (2) 5% Kas (2) 5% Thorzain (2) 5% Vortix (2) 5% Lucifron (1) 3% Nerchio (1) 3% can't tell (1) 3% 38 total votes Your vote: Top 10: Most overrated? (Vote): Stephano
(Vote): Naniwa
(Vote): Ret
(Vote): Mana
(Vote): Lucifron
(Vote): Nerchio
(Vote): Kas
(Vote): Thorzain
(Vote): Scarlett
(Vote): Vortix
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Top 10: Most underrated?Scarlett (9) 30% Ret (4) 13% Lucifron (4) 13% Vortix (4) 13% can't tell (4) 13% Stephano obviously (1) 3% Naniwa (1) 3% Mana (1) 3% Nerchio (1) 3% Kas (1) 3% Thorzain (0) 0% 30 total votes Your vote: Top 10: Most underrated? (Vote): Stephano obviously
(Vote): Naniwa
(Vote): Ret
(Vote): Mana
(Vote): Lucifron
(Vote): Nerchio
(Vote): Kas
(Vote): Thorzain
(Vote): Scarlett
(Vote): Vortix
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Top 10: Most overrated?TLO (6) 32% goswser (4) 21% HasuObs (2) 11% sLivko (2) 11% Grubby (2) 11% SaSe (1) 5% Snute (1) 5% HuK (1) 5% Bly (0) 0% Demuslim (0) 0% can't tell (0) 0% 19 total votes Your vote: Top 10: Most overrated? (Vote): SaSe
(Vote): goswser
(Vote): Bly
(Vote): TLO
(Vote): Snute
(Vote): HasuObs
(Vote): HuK
(Vote): Demuslim
(Vote): sLivko
(Vote): Grubby
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Top 10: Most underrated?SaSe (8) 38% TLO (3) 14% Grubby (3) 14% Demuslim (2) 10% sLivko (2) 10% goswser (1) 5% Bly (1) 5% HuK (1) 5% Snute (0) 0% HasuObs (0) 0% can't tell (0) 0% 21 total votes Your vote: Top 10: Most underrated? (Vote): SaSe
(Vote): goswser
(Vote): Bly
(Vote): TLO
(Vote): Snute
(Vote): HasuObs
(Vote): HuK
(Vote): Demuslim
(Vote): sLivko
(Vote): Grubby
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Top 30: Most overrated?Minigun (8) 44% MajOr (4) 22% SortOf (2) 11% KiLLeR (1) 6% Feast (1) 6% Suppy (1) 6% can't tell (1) 6% BabyKnight (0) 0% Socke (0) 0% mOOnGlaDe (0) 0% TitaN (0) 0% 18 total votes Your vote: Top 30: Most overrated? (Vote): BabyKnight
(Vote): Socke
(Vote): KiLLeR
(Vote): Feast
(Vote): MajOr
(Vote): mOOnGlaDe
(Vote): TitaN
(Vote): Suppy
(Vote): SortOf
(Vote): Minigun
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Top 30: Most underrated?mOOnGlaDe (6) 32% MajOr (3) 16% SortOf (3) 16% BabyKnight (2) 11% Socke (2) 11% KiLLeR (1) 5% Suppy (1) 5% Minigun (1) 5% Feast (0) 0% TitaN (0) 0% can't tell (0) 0% 19 total votes Your vote: Top 30: Most underrated? (Vote): BabyKnight
(Vote): Socke
(Vote): KiLLeR
(Vote): Feast
(Vote): MajOr
(Vote): mOOnGlaDe
(Vote): TitaN
(Vote): Suppy
(Vote): SortOf
(Vote): Minigun
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Top 40: Most overrated?XlorD (9) 50% IdrA (4) 22% White-Ra (2) 11% ViBe (1) 6% Fraer (1) 6% monchi (1) 6% Dimaga (0) 0% LoWeLy (0) 0% Strelok (0) 0% BratOK (0) 0% Happy (0) 0% 18 total votes Your vote: Top 40: Most overrated? (Vote): Dimaga
(Vote): IdrA
(Vote): ViBe
(Vote): LoWeLy
(Vote): XlorD
(Vote): Strelok
(Vote): BratOK
(Vote): Happy
(Vote): Fraer
(Vote): White-Ra
(Vote): monchi
Poll: Top 40: Most underrated?IdrA (9) 50% Dimaga (3) 17% ViBe (1) 6% LoWeLy (1) 6% Strelok (1) 6% Fraer (1) 6% White-Ra (1) 6% monchi (1) 6% XlorD (0) 0% BratOK (0) 0% Happy (0) 0% 18 total votes Your vote: Top 40: Most underrated? (Vote): Dimaga
(Vote): IdrA
(Vote): ViBe
(Vote): LoWeLy
(Vote): XlorD
(Vote): Strelok
(Vote): BratOK
(Vote): Happy
(Vote): Fraer
(Vote): White-Ra
(Vote): monchi
Poll: Top 50: Most overrated?qxc (5) 45% can't tell (2) 18% LiveZerg (1) 9% theognis (1) 9% elfi (1) 9% ToD (1) 9% BeastyQt (0) 0% Illusion (0) 0% Harstem (0) 0% BlinG (0) 0% Welmu (0) 0% NightEnD (0) 0% Bischu (0) 0% 11 total votes Your vote: Top 50: Most overrated? (Vote): LiveZerg
(Vote): qxc
(Vote): BeastyQt
(Vote): Illusion
(Vote): theognis
(Vote): Harstem
(Vote): BlinG
(Vote): Welmu
(Vote): elfi
(Vote): NightEnD
(Vote): Bischu
(Vote): ToD
(Vote): can't tell
Poll: Top 50: Most underrated?elfi (3) 25% Welmu (3) 25% theognis (2) 17% Illusion (1) 8% Harstem (1) 8% Bischu (1) 8% can't tell (1) 8% LiveZerg (0) 0% qxc (0) 0% BeastyQt (0) 0% BlinG (0) 0% NightEnD (0) 0% ToD (0) 0% 12 total votes Your vote: Top 50: Most underrated? (Vote): LiveZerg
(Vote): qxc
(Vote): BeastyQt
(Vote): Illusion
(Vote): theognis
(Vote): Harstem
(Vote): BlinG
(Vote): Welmu
(Vote): elfi
(Vote): NightEnD
(Vote): Bischu
(Vote): ToD
(Vote): can't tell
![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/oldrankings40ken.png) March 2012April 2012May 2012June 2012July 2012August 2012September 2012October 2012November 2012December 2012 (1)December 2012 (2)January 2013![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/otherv2k62.png) Please note that this months ranking was even harder to do and i don't mind u having a negative opinion on it - a lot of it is specualtion at this point, since there was only 2 big touranments in HotS overall and some qualifiers / minor tournemants - everything else is Ladder and watching player streams. WoL results still play a bit of a role as well, since they have to be an indicator of how good someone might be at HotS. Some of the players in the ranking have no official HotS match, even, and dropped some ranks therefore.Please tell ur friends, state ur opinion in this thread, rate the blog and go on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1aoio4/top_30_foreigner_ranking_march_2013/Thanks, I hope u had a nice read!
  
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You are breaking the rules of reddit by saying "upvote on reddit". You should edit that.
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On March 21 2013 04:30 NokaH wrote:
You are breaking the rules of reddit by saying "upvote on reddit". You should edit that.
I think the exact same thing happened last month
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I don't really get it. How did Naniwa, Thorzain, Sase, and Demuslim all go up? Why did Socke plummet by so much? Why didn't Kas's and TLO's positions not change when they played a decent amount of games recently?
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Guys, I'm not sure how you can call Nani overrated, pretty sure him HuK and Jinro are the best foreigners there have been!
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On March 21 2013 04:57 Targe wrote:
Guys, I'm not sure how you can call Nani overrated, pretty sure him HuK and Jinro are the best foreigners there have been!
It depends whether or not we are talking about how good a player is right now, as opposed to lifetime achievements. Naniwa is way up there as a foreigner in terms of lifetime achievements, but he hasn't played a lot of tournament games recently, so we don't know how he's doing right now.
It's the same thing with Idra. Idra was one of the most successful WoL foreigners, but his play since 2012 has been laughable. But if we were to look back on the most successful foreigners in WoL, Idra is certainly top 5, if not top 3.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 21 2013 05:06 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 04:57 Targe wrote:
Guys, I'm not sure how you can call Nani overrated, pretty sure him HuK and Jinro are the best foreigners there have been! It depends whether or not we are talking about how good a player is right now, as opposed to lifetime achievements. Naniwa is way up there as a foreigner in terms of lifetime achievements, but he hasn't played a lot of tournament games recently, so we don't know how he's doing right now. It's the same thing with Idra. Idra was one of the most successful WoL foreigners, but his play since 2012 has been laughable. But if we were to look back on the most successful foreigners in WoL, Idra is certainly top 5, if not top 3.
Yup, totally agree, lots of people however instantly disregard players like IdrA, Nani, HuK etc. without realising how hard things like going deep in back to back Code S's are. If we go by their current standards I hate to say it but the best foreigner may be Stephano. :/
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lol did I just count 14 zergs in the top 30 foreigner ranking? 14 out of 30?
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Can't be right, Cloud isn't #1.
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United States1326 Posts
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Oh Jebus. I agreed with a lot of the earlier posts almost completely, now this ranking looks like random names you've seen in HotS tournaments put together and random names you haven't seen in tournaments mixed in for good measure.
I really can't see what would justify most of the changes you made in ranks.
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On March 21 2013 05:25 StarVe wrote:
Oh Jebus. I agreed with a lot of the earlier posts almost completely, now this ranking looks like random names you've seen in HotS tournaments put together and random names you haven't seen in tournaments mixed in for good measure.
well, i have to start with HotS rankings at some point.
Many players have no official HotS matches
Some have only played 1 or 2 but underperformed heavily from what u know they should be able to do.
On March 21 2013 05:25 StarVe wrote:
I really can't see what would justify most of the changes you made in ranks.
Which one specifically?
Expect future rankings to be a lot more accurate 
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On March 21 2013 05:23 bduddy wrote:
...Sen?
Didn't read the OP?
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On March 21 2013 05:32 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 05:25 StarVe wrote:
Oh Jebus. I agreed with a lot of the earlier posts almost completely, now this ranking looks like random names you've seen in HotS tournaments put together and random names you haven't seen in tournaments mixed in for good measure. well, i have to start with HotS rankings at some point. Many players have no official HotS matches Some have only played 1 or 2 but underperformed heavily from what u know they should be able to do. Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 05:25 StarVe wrote:
I really can't see what would justify most of the changes you made in ranks. Which one specifically? Expect future rankings to be a lot more accurate
Demuslim four spots up - why? He played not a single recorded game in March, last thing he did in February was beating Glon and Hellokitty and losing to qxc and Goswser. He may be good but I don't see how you can know that for sure apart from maybe your own playing experience.
Naniwa moves up a spot while he practiced mainly WoL, got stomped in WoL tournaments by Bly, Lowely and others and didn't play one HotS tournament game.
LoWely on the other hand beat Naniwa, Oz and Bly in RSL this month, yes, it was WoL, but still, that's a pretty damn good result and he completely drops out of the ranking instead while players who didn't do anything go up.
Thorzain moves up after a pretty dreadful performance at MLG with no other games recorded. Other players like Socke get dropped down quite a bit although he looked quite decent in some of his matches at IEM, the PvZs were pretty well played mostly.
Lucifron moves up three spots although he got last in his IEM group and lost in the first round of the HotS launch tournament.
You say the ranking is also based on "my impression of the play: how did games look [impressive macrogames / lucky&cheesy], consistency, which opponents (bracket luck?) etc.".
LucifroN looked almost lost in HotS, it wasn't solid, it wasn't good, it was certainly not good enough to justify moving him up three spots.
I might even agree with moving him up based on his WoL results in the last couple of weeks, but it makes no sense as you seem to completely ignore WoL results in other cases.
VortiX is dropped six spots while not performing much worse than Lucifron - how could he be worse, Lucifron pretty much lost every game he played, same as Naniwa, and VortiX even won the aAa Pro Challenge in WoL in Bo7 wins over Lucifron and Snute and beat aLive, fraer and Scarlett in Bo5s in RSL.
Or Snute. Snute is dropped 9 spots for his IEM performance but look at his record after that: http://aligulac.com/players/111-Snute/
He's 20-4 in maps in the last week with pretty decent opponents he played.
TLO got last in his group at IEM and stays where he was before. Grubby finished one place above TLO and won the HotS launch event over Stephano and White-Ra, he drops down 8 spots. Why?
Babyknight loses decisively to Leenock, a top 5 Korean Zerg, at MLG = -3
Thorzain loses decisively to KiLLeR, a top 10 foreigner Zerg, at MLG = +3
I could go on for a while, maybe asking if you honestly think Minigun is better than fraer/Welmu/Happy, etc. but that should be enough for now.
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Naniwa and Lucifron should not be top 5, Lucifron's results have almost all been online, which should not get you into the top 5, and Naniwa hasn't done very much since his 2012 GSL runs.
Bly and Snute should be at least top 10, Bly for beating Naniwa in RSL, Mana in MLG qualifiers, and putting up a great performance against Flash at MLG. Snute should be up there too for being the most consistent foreigner in late 2012, sure he hasn't done anything in HotS, but you said yourself this is also a WoL ranking.
I think this ranking is a little too weighted in favor of online tournaments and especially RSL, my ranking from watching IEM/MLG would be something like: Stephano, Nerchio, Ret, Mana, Bly.
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There should just be a top non-genetically-korean list!
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On March 21 2013 08:09 Burrfoot wrote:
There should just be a top non-genetically-korean list!
Just on a brief glance, no one on this list except for Illusion is Korean by ethnicity :o
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How do i make my ranking? Which criteria do i have? Well, here is a little list of what i look at, from important to less imporant:
- Major Tournament results of the month.
- My impression of the play: how did games look [impressive macrogames / lucky&cheesy]
This is not good. A foreigner ranking should be based fundamentally on their wins - their likelihood to win in the future, not whether you prefer to play long or short games on ladder.
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Just wanna say keep it up KalWarkov, always interesting to read even though this month for sure was definitely hard. In the future maybe you should provide justifications / reasons for why people moved, it will be more work but will be a really awesome read
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On March 21 2013 08:27 FatNikE wrote:Show nested quote +How do i make my ranking? Which criteria do i have? Well, here is a little list of what i look at, from important to less imporant:
- Major Tournament results of the month.
- My impression of the play: how did games look [impressive macrogames / lucky&cheesy] This is not good. A foreigner ranking should be based fundamentally on their wins - their likelihood to win in the future, not whether you prefer to play long or short games on ladder.
Someone who can go head-to-head with anyone in a macro game is more likely to win in the future than someone who exclusively relies on catching his opponent off-guard because that's easier to prepare for.
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EPT
