EPTTPS didn't comment on the other reads I asked him for and he treated me aggressively.
I sense people being uncooperative or unmotivated to help town (which doesn't surprise me since I think they scum d'oh), I didn't ask them to do something hard.
The Game [N] - Page 42
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Vivax
21682 Posts
TPS didn't comment on the other reads I asked him for and he treated me aggressively. I sense people being uncooperative or unmotivated to help town (which doesn't surprise me since I think they scum d'oh), I didn't ask them to do something hard. | ||
|
VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
| ||
|
RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:04 DoYouHas wrote: + Show Spoiler [Ryu's long post] + On March 19 2013 05:34 RyuSuzaku wrote: well, that sucks. I was pretty convinced GM was scum given how suspicious he was acting. Pretty disappointing play from him, especially given his incredibly strong role. Obviously I was wrong, but I'm town and I had completely valid reasons for attacking GM. 1. This is completely false. I did not vocalize any of my other reads because they were not as sure as greymist. The longer I looked at the interaction between greymist and sandroba, the more I became sure that greymist was scum. I chose to ignore sandroba because he was going to be replaced-there's not much reason to attack a person you know will not even be around, and whose scummy traits were probably not motivated by alignment to begin with. My vote was on sandroba for quite a while until the replacement was announced (though it's not in the voting thread because I was not aware of it) 2. Secondly, simply because greymist didn't literally call it a trap doesn't mean it was a trap. If you want to argue semantics, by all means, go ahead. Your point is moot, given that greymist himself said the words "Perfect. I was waiting for this!" Given that he was expecting such a reaction, it's only reasonable to assume he was trying to trap a scum. So he "never" showed that behavior, eh? This is not a misrepresentation. This is you looking for something where nothing exists. 3. It was nothing more than OMGUS, unless you can find a better reason greymist had for attacking GK. None of his points were substantiated and I showed exactly why I think GK is town. This is convenient ignorance of what I posted. In fact, it's ignorance of almost everything that happened surrounding GK and GM. GM did not attack GK until GK showed suspicion of GM. That's textbook definition of OMGUS. 4. Lastly, how exactly is pushing a case and seeking consolidation on a chaotic day 1 scummy? If that's your definition of scummy, I fear to see your other reads. Sadly I can't tell whether you are saying these things as a scum trying to push responsibility for a mislynch, or as a townie who is just bad. I never assumed sandro to be town nor did I ever strongly feel him to be scum. I voted him to begin with to pressure him into explaining his reads. He obviously never did because he was afk the entire time. I ignored him after the replacement was announced. IIRC this was before the replacement was announced. I simply was surprised that a player would ignore sandro's accusation, given that he is widely accepted to be a very good town player. I misinterpreted the situation. Why are you cherry picking me? Are you scum? 1. - I am quite interested in what these other, not vocalized, reads are. Please elaborate. 2-3. - Originally I thought I had caught you here by getting you to state that GreY's attack on GK was both a trap and OMGUS, which wouldn't make any sense. HOWEVER, I decided to look back at your original case again to make sure I got my facts straight and it turns out that I made a mistake in my original assertions against you. And, because of my mistake, it revealed an inconsistency much larger than the simple contradiction I first mentioned. "Secondly, simply because greymist didn't literally call it a trap doesn't mean it wasn't a trap. If you want to argue semantics, by all means, go ahead. Your point is moot, given that greymist himself said the words "Perfect. I was waiting for this!" In Ryu's original case, he says twice that he doesn't believe the 'trap' explanation for GreY's post. He classifies GreY as opportunistic and picking on the easy targets. I was wrong when I said that Ryu had misrepresented GreY by endorsing the trap explanation. Yet Ryu doesn't point out the obvious flaw in how I was representing him, he accepts it and defends it. That is not the action of a tunneling townie who has been challenged on his past case. That is the action of a scum who is reacting to pressure. 4. - I think it is amusing that you convicted GreY on OMGUS, yet you bite back at both me and VE with "maybe you're scum" as soon as we pressure you. it obviously was a trap in retrospect because grey flipped town. I didn't believe it was a trap at the time. How is this contradictory at all? Grey said it was a trap-you claim it wasn't. I disbelieved that it was a trap, that he wanted it to look like one, but that it truly wasn't. He flipped town = he intended it to be a trap. No contradiction here. My statement of confusion over you and VE is me questioning my reads, because both of you are grossly misrepresenting me (you more than VE). I'm not going to post my reads at night, no use. | ||
|
Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
##Join: SAST (As far as I've gotten into reading, this is still a thing. If its not, then disregard.) Still reading. AFK | ||
|
VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:26 RyuSuzaku wrote: it obviously was a trap in retrospect because grey flipped town. I didn't believe it was a trap at the time. How is this contradictory at all? Grey said it was a trap-you claim it wasn't. I disbelieved that it was a trap, that he wanted it to look like one, but that it truly wasn't. He flipped town = he intended it to be a trap. No contradiction here. My statement of confusion over you and VE is me questioning my reads, because both of you are grossly misrepresenting me (you more than VE). I'm not going to post my reads at night, no use. You make a good point. I'll walk back my accusation a bit and do some more thinking. | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:39 DoYouHas wrote: PS: I would still encourage you to share your reads, Ryu, regardless of it being night time. Scum will kill who scum will kill, getting information out so that we can discuss it as early as possible is much more to town advantage than it is to scum's. Now that you have effectively shot holes in my aggression towards you I very much would like to get into your thoughts on people other than GreY. no worries, I will post them right before deadline (assuming I don't fall asleep before then lol) | ||
|
glurio
Germany597 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:20 Vivax wrote: Also my scumreads still didn't provide reads on Zarepath they seem to not want to play transparently for town. TPS didn't comment on the other reads I asked him for and he treated me aggressively. I sense people being uncooperative or unmotivated to help town (which doesn't surprise me since I think they scum d'oh), I didn't ask them to do something hard. Well i find zares obsession with finding out the smurfs identity quite odd. It doesn't help anyone at this point. What do you make of Ryu, vivax? | ||
|
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:08 Kenpachi wrote: I'm personally not very comfortable not getting any limelight, good or bad lol ill bear with it though, I'd like to claim a medic protect on me, just cause. I have a feeling mafia will gun me down first night. GreYMisT not being scum is disappointing but it is honestly not surprising, though im having a hard time piecing information on his wagon together. Its safe to assume we will find majority of mafia, maybe even all of them, in the bunch that voted him because 1. easy as hell to sheep, 2. he is a forum veteran. 12 people voted for him, including me RyuSuzaku, goodkarma, Vivax, geript, ThePeashooter, cosmicomics, Wade Fell, Mr. Wiggles, Kenpachi, zarepath, kitaman27, TestSubject893, WaveofShadow Honestly, a hard group to figure out. I'd like to assume that me and Ryu are not mafia lol. kitaman is just not contributing as much as we'd like to did we not realize? He's as invisible as I am. If anyone protects Kenpachi they are an idiot. How can you possibly think you are worth protecting? If the mafia killed you I would applaud them even if you were a jack of all trades. You have literally posted nothing of value, but you never do so that shouldn't be expected. I forget again, why do you even play this game? You never say anything and never do anything except become an anchor on whatever team you are on. On March 19 2013 07:20 Vivax wrote: Also my scumreads still didn't provide reads on Zarepath they seem to not want to play transparently for town. TPS didn't comment on the other reads I asked him for and he treated me aggressively. I sense people being uncooperative or unmotivated to help town (which doesn't surprise me since I think they scum d'oh), I didn't ask them to do something hard. If you want to see me being aggressive look above. I was nothing but nice to you so get out of this emotional state and learn to play the game. I gave you advice and you somehow keep interpreting it as a personal attack and I'm not giving you anymore leeway for English possibly being your second language. | ||
|
Vivax
21682 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:43 glurio wrote: Well i find zares obsession with finding out the smurfs identity quite odd. It doesn't help anyone at this point. What do you make of Ryu, vivax? I don't care about Ryu I care about the other 4 guys stop dodging my questions on purpose before you ask some, thanks (also I already talked about him so you should actually know if you read my posts). | ||
|
Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:44 ThePeashooter wrote: If anyone protects Kenpachi they are an idiot. How can you possibly think you are worth protecting? If the mafia killed you I would applaud them even if you were a jack of all trades. You have literally posted nothing of value, but you never do so that shouldn't be expected. I forget again, why do you even play this game? You never say anything and never do anything except become an anchor on whatever team you are on. If you want to see me being aggressive look above. I was nothing but nice to you so get out of this emotional state and learn to play the game. I gave you advice and you somehow keep interpreting it as a personal attack and I'm not giving you anymore leeway for English possibly being your second language. now im really curious to know who you are | ||
|
Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
| ||
|
Vivax
21682 Posts
I've decided to extend my case with the other guys, rejoice! Also, in case of my death (and other guys) PLEASE, please look at my posts. Too many times people don't do that. Look at who I read as town, who I read as scum, who read me as what. People disregard it as WIFOM but it's all valuable information in getting behind scum's thought process. Anyway, working on another massive dump. Brb yo. | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On March 19 2013 08:09 Vivax wrote: Medic goes to sciberbia or me, sciberbia if he's unsure cause the guy has wits. I've decided to extend my case with the other guys, rejoice! Also, in case of my death (and other guys) PLEASE, please look at my posts. Too many times people don't do that. Look at who I read as town, who I read as scum, who read me as what. People disregard it as WIFOM but it's all valuable information in getting behind scum's thought process. Anyway, working on another massive dump. Brb yo. I hear there's medication you can take for that. | ||
|
Vivax
21682 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Before they kill me in a horrible way I'll start with those with small filters and probably be a little more vague on TPS cause he seems to be the more active sort of scum but it looks like the kind who tends to slip so you will catch him sooner or later. So first, part 1 to the scumwnage: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057¤tpage=37#728 GOODKARMA YO (This will be easy) Ok, part 1 of this post he replies to this regarding grey: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 03:53 goodkarma wrote: Okay. I can understand it was early. But if we were to look in the here and now you still haven't provided anything that suggests who you think could be scum. I think what peashooter, and others here are getting at, is either post something that helps us scumhunt, or don't post at all. I am less inclined than others here to just policy lynch you. But you make it hard for us when you continue to spam the thread with emotional OMGUS responses. Hopefully you see where we're coming from. I would be most interested in hearing about your read on Grey. As we see GK rides an attack against Coag along with Glurio - click for link (soft one Look at dem TPS and Zarepath reads) and TPS at the time (surprise suprise) His own points against Coag are that he doesn't post scumreads and it's unclear as to why he refers to Coag as policy lynch. It seems like good town atmosphere for GK is to discuss policy lynches he defines himself as such cause a guy didn't post his scumreads, but let's look at the next post. Next he comments a little on Grey, posts very little..seems detached.Well ok nothing we can say against that it's the next part where it gets juicy. Wiggles calls him out for it (rightfully) and says he pressures Coag for not posting scumreads but GK didn't provide anything himself, and calls Coag scummy for not giving reads, refuses to give reads himself and referred to Coag as policy lynch, so judge for yourself. Then, there's this question to Ryu which seems unlikely as scum to scum question so it was one of the reasons I dismissed Ryu for now, I already mentioned this in my previous case post (hi stutters). On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: Regarding Grey: I asked about grey because I could find very little about his meta. I know he hosts many games, but he doesn't seem to have played in many. Best I can tell so far, he seems very detached from this game, posting often, but saying very little... Having a look at his meta would really help, if anyone happens to know a game he has actually played in (and not hosted) I would love to look at it. @Mr. Wiggles: Sowy, but I'm not giving you any scumreads until I'm ready to. You claim I haven't been scumhunting, but if you were to look at my posting so far I have: 1) Worked towards establishing a pro-town atmosphere, a reasonable early goal 2) Been pushing others for reads to get a better understanding of their motives and thought process, which is very important to getting scumreads As far as cases go, which aren't the only component of scumhunting: As I said, when I'm ready. And I promise you it will be long before the end of the day. But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... @Ryu: Would you mind going a little more in depth on this case for me? From what I've seen in his past games, sandroba has been pretty lazy as both town and scum. The difference being the quality of his reads. From what I've seen so far, I'd say his assessments have been reasonable. What about his reads do you disagree with, or is this really just about his lazy posting style? ALRIGHT, next interesting post. We see GK sets himself up for the common bandwagons in this post when the time seems ripe. He also soft defends TPS like most of the other guys I mentioned. Oh, you. Why is it suspicious? Most people were kinda sold on their own targets and consolidated later for lack of a common agreement, on Greymist after Ryu's post. They did so after pushing for their own lynch and asking their targets questions. GK however seems to be switching from target to target, but with very low pressure or pushing between them. He said Coag is scummy, he didn't post a case nor ask questions. He said GM was detached etc. etc., no case and no questions. He said Wiggles was scummy and that it's not OMGUS, no ____ and no ______ Now he's back to GM!Surprise! He also seems fine with DP. What a coincidence zarepath and cosmicomics too! Need I say more? + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 09:15 goodkarma wrote: I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right. Just because I had issues with Wiggles and he accused me first doesn't make it an OMGUS. He is lurking the shit out of the thread now. The mentality being, "I presented my case, now I don't need to do shit." That is a scum mentality, not a town one. It shows disinterest in the thread. As for "deflecting to lurkers," I don't see what you mean. The game was SO early at that point.. I don't feel you could call anyone that didn't chime in yet lurkers. Anything else? I will be presenting my own case before the evening's done, so everyone has a solid 24ish hours to look at it. But I typically don't like to jump into cases as quickly as some here. Call that scummy if you want, but it's my playstyle. On March 17 2013 13:52 goodkarma wrote: Well, here it comes... The promised post. While I don't know if it can live up to everyone's expectations, I'll do my best. These are the people I've currently focused my attention on.: Greymist First off, go through Greymist's filter and here's your challenge: find a game he's played in that is a serious one (e.g. non-caller) he solo played. I found one hydra game, and a caller game, but those aren't exactly helpful in this context. Hence why I asked. I'm 99% sure that people just spewed out the accusation I was too lazy to search without even thinking to look themselves, because that's their level of fucking lazy... I sifted through the 10 pages and couldn't find anything... Greymist is someone that has contributed nothing of value to date. What little he has said seems to be either completely not relevant to the game, general agreement to remarks made, or concern about being accused in the case of sandroba. He hasn't stuck his neck out at all, and is currently on my scumlist. He is my top scumread, as unlike some other lurker-type players, he's had ample opportunity to contribute and every time he's opted to provide nothing of value. ##Vote: Greymist Darthpunk Darthpunk is someone whose play I know can be stellar as both town and scum, yet currently I'm leaning towards scum. He has been lurking the thread rather hard, which is uncharacteristic of both his town and scum play. Yet what little he has said just doesn't make sense to me as town. He seems content to lynch the first (trolly) thing that moves (gerupt), and then to not followup in thread at all... This is definitely not pro-town, and I'm leaning scum on him, but I'd really like to see more from him. It's the biggest reason I've been trying to wait before giving scumreads, because I was really expecting more from him. Peashooter When it comes to thepeashooter, I was in general agreement with blazinghand's case. However, what sticks out to me is that instead of backing down, he's decided to maintain his case against coagulation. This is not the kind of move I'd expect from scum, as all it does is have him keeping his neck stuck out in general view. It would have been much easier for him (as scum) to move to a popular target and hide behind him. As such, I'm inclined to not vote for him this cycle and give him a chance. This is not a wagon I plan to get behind. Sandroba Finally, there's Sandroba. What worries me most about Sandroba is that lurking the shit out of thread is a scumtell for him. I'm thinking specifically of the scumgame he had in chrono trigger mafia, the only game I've personally played with him. There, past a certain point, he kind of just completely gave up trying. If he can't contribute any further by the deadline, my vote will likely switch to him. It ends with these two in quick succession (no questions or anything between them, common pattern) and I'm not commenting on more actually. My fingers itch and are tired from my big cases today, I need to go for glurio now. Use your own judgement, I only provide the right lenses. On March 17 2013 15:42 goodkarma wrote: "Pure scum motivations," as in your case against me? Over half the players would qualify as "easy" "lurker-lynches" right now. Yet you seem to completely overlook this... My case against you revolved around you contributing nothing when you were there. This is something that made you stand out to me over the lurkers. The last few hours, however, you have made it clear you have an active interest in the game which invalidates my original case points against. That leaves Sandro, for whom lurking specifically matches with his scum meta. And that is why he stands out above the other "lurkers." There are literally only a handful of people right now who are active (none of which I have a scumread on), so if you choose to hold against me that I'm choosing "easy targets" on that grounds then I'd say you're being a bit ridiculous. I'm following my top scumreads. Tbh, I don't care if you think they're easy. Anyhow: ##Unvote ##Vote: Sandroba On March 18 2013 05:18 goodkarma wrote: Briefly discussing some thoughts on the new suspects in the flurry of posts that have appeared since last night: Regarding DarthPunk: Darthpunk is definitely looking scummy right now. I understand where VisceraEyes is coming from in his case, and I generally agree with his points. One point I don't agree on though, is DP's defense of me. I understand where he's coming from there, and I attribute it to the several games we've played together. And yes, VisceraEyes you can feel free to jump all over this as a soft defense or yada yada... But I know what DarthPunk's capable of if he actually is town, and there's enough doubt in my mind right now as to if he's scum that I'd really rather not lynch him day one. If he's town, it's an absolute waste. Further, if he's scum I'm confident I could spot it in later days. Ironically, this is pretty similar to the reasoning he used for me. But as of right now, I would say he indeed is scummy for the reasons you've mentioned. Regarding Grey: I really like ryu's case on Grey. With Sandroba being replaced, and these new valid concerns being brought up regarding Grey's posting history, I'm changing my vote back to Grey.: ##Unvote ##Vote: Grey I would ask in the next few hours we find two candidates to consolidate our votes between. As of right now, we're kind of spread everywhere, which is poor form this close to the deadline. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ GLURIO JA Well basically the post I linked is a strong point imo but I'm also least sure about this guy cause his filter is small, he defended many people who I think are townies (me included) although he did give my top scumreads slack. He sheeped on the DP wagon and left, just now popped in and asked me a question with its answer in my filter without answering mine and disappeared. So I feel like he could be a decent fifth scum but first of all: 1.Lynch Zarepath 2. Lynch Cosmicomics 3. Lynch GK 4. Lynch TPS 5. (lynch glurio) Reevaluate after their flips, there's a lot of time. It doesn't look like there's vets among them and I don't know how DrH balances his setups but in case of doubt assume he randomed. These guys all are unwilling to give out reads on each other and some of them started to attack zarepath only after I posted my huge case (and after asking veeery unrelated questions and disappearing, just TPS and zare stayed around acting pretty weird), see it and believe it. Alright, I hope I'll be around tomorrow and not dead. If I die, you can imagine why (hint: Not WIFOM) <3 town | ||
|
Vivax
21682 Posts
On March 18 2013 09:49 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 09:19 sciberbia wrote: Why did you defend DP from cosmicomics yesterday if you thought his first post was suspiciously over the top and you suspected him? I tried to actually see if sciberbia got something wrong here, but upon checking it's true. Zarepath said that he found DP's entrance post scummy later on, but expressed doubts towards thinking he's scum later (30 minutes) for an early vote. I agree that this is inconsistent. Upon rereading Zarepath I actually realized my read might be wrong. I noticed another inconsistency: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 06:54 zarepath wrote: I find setup speculation something that a scum is more likely to want to do immediately on Day 1 than something that town is likely to want to do, because it requires zero reads on anyone else and if it EVER contributes to finding scum, it does so in an incredibly oblique way very much down the road. I don't see DAy 1 setup speculation as being one of the better things that town can do on Day 1. I did mix up your tarot card comment with VE because he mentioned something about them later, I think. I looked through your filter, geript, and I liked your comment about coddling Coag and figured you were null for now. The VE quote at the end wasn't meant to suggest VE was scummy, but to suggest that he made a good point about sciberbia's contributions thus far. When I scum hunt, I look at each person individually, and so while I did put my suspicions on VE, the fact i'm suspicious of him doesn't mean I can't agree with his suspicions on someone else. My suspect list at the end of the post was all justified by the contents of that post -- I didn't like Coag's town claim then subsequent nothing (or anything he's done since), I didn't like VE's town claim or weird scumhunting cirlce idea that almost seemed glib in tone, and I didn't like Peashooter's eagerness to talk extensively about setup speculation in a game where we were even warned things could change around; the likeliness of us figuring out this setup on Day 1 with no info is incredibly low and, as i mentioned above, an easy discussion for scum to participate in without giving themselves away, and I didn't like (as VE noted) sciberbia's certainty that people weren't scum. It's true my post didn't lead to a full conclusive scum read and vote on anybody, but it's worthwhile to post my suspicions right now, and especially at a point in the day when I knew I'd be gone for a while. Sorry it didn't flow better for you, and hopefully this clears up what your concerns were. On March 17 2013 12:33 zarepath wrote: I haven't hopped on the GK or TPS bandwagons because I'm not convinced of them entirely. I've never played in a game this large and there are a LOT of people who have posted almost literally nothing, and several people whose small contributions have been less substantial than either of these two players (DarthPunk, Trancestorm, sandroba, Coagulation). I hear what people are saying about them, but I hadn't taken into account the point that TPS is obviously a proxy, and that muddles the waters a bit. It's not like there's an enormous wagon on GK right now -- half the thread has hardly posted and there's what, two or three people talking about him? I can see why; it's not like it's bad to talk about him, but I just don't have anything to add. I also thought it was quite scummy for him to basically give his Pro Town resume of all the wonderfully pro town things he's done (which under scrutiny he hasn't done), and I can understand that looking pretty bad. But I know what it's like to think you have a solid pro-town filter as town and apparently it wasn't as solid and obvious as you assumed. But he's also promised he has a case coming, and I can understand the desire to wait until you feel confident about a case to really push it. I'm inclined to see what he comes up with and re-evaluate my read from there. TPS was basically one of the first setup speculators but he somehow preferred geript over him as scumread and never tried to pressure or interact with TPS (despite Wade being loud and hammering him, so he must have seen that going on in the thread). I'm sold on hopping on the zarepath bandwagon, alternatively. Also, the last point is relevant if Zare flips red, this post is from much earlier. WoS why should I take medicine against huge dumps it's much better than mental diarrhea. | ||
|
zarepath
United States1626 Posts
Like, you are wasting tons and tons of time and energy based off of my poor play. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and make cases on people without me being scum as the prime argument. Back to work now. | ||
|
Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Vivax to put it as Mocsta would: Your logical fallacy is Appeal to Popularity. Just because a lot of people agreed with it doesn't mean it's a good case. It's an EFFECTIVE case in that it convinced a lot of people, but that doesn't mean that the points are valid. Thnx for the love  haha i did give u one of those in nomination IIRC Btw, did you get my join ##SAST msg? | ||
| ||
