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On March 19 2013 09:01 zarepath wrote:
Vivax I stop reading your posts as soon as you make reads on others based on the fact that I am scum.
Like, you are wasting tons and tons of time and energy based off of my poor play. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and make cases on people without me being scum as the prime argument.
Back to work now.
What should I do, you guys defended each other so obviously it becomes evident to those who start by looking at your voting.
FYI though, my case on you, GK and cosmicomics isn't centered on the connection to you, that is just what links you together in the bigger picture and actually gave away TPS and glurio to me.
Why do you refer to your play as poor though?
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On March 19 2013 08:09 Vivax wrote:
Anyway, working on another massive dump. Brb yo.
Metamucil can help with ya constipation I heard
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Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him.
First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process.
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On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote:
Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him.
First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process.
U SCUM
Whats the point of this post.. you either like him or you dont.. this is overly verbose and you condemn him whilst proceeding to nurture him.
U SCUM
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On March 19 2013 02:37 Mocsta wrote:
##Apply: SAST
Rejoice! For I am Town!
Unfortunately for SAST Viscera Eyes is scum.
##Burn SAST with Fire
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On March 19 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote:
Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him.
First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process. U SCUM Whats the point of this post.. you either like him or you dont.. this is overly verbose and you condemn him whilst proceeding to nurture him. U SCUM
Leaning scum is a read. And encouraging people to post to get a better read on them is hardly scummy...
If you think I'm scum make an actual case, or use your time more productively.
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EBWOP:
If you think I'm scum make an actual case, and use your time more productively.
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On March 19 2013 09:43 goodkarma wrote:
EBWOP:
If you think I'm scum make an actual case, and use your time more productively.
For blatant scummy play like yours, there is no need for a case
why do i need to convince YOU, you are scum.
I pegged you as scum from the first 10 pages I read.. and now at page 43, your still scum.. its as clear as water.
We must cleanse the town of this BadKarma
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Yo guys. I'm back. I was just super busy yesterday, will not be so for the next week.
Reading over the thread, I noticed this extremely bizarre post. It's important to note that Wiggles had voted for Greymist prior to this post.
On March 18 2013 11:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Well, I thought I'd have some time to post right now, but a friend I haven't seen in a while is back in town and I'm going out.
The GreY situation has put us in a bad position now, because he's not giving us anything to work with. He's either town who's given up or mafia who isn't going to give any information because he thinks he's dead. So all we have to work with is his earlier posts, and those get me to think he's scum, as per my earlier post.
So, that's where my vote's going. I don't know if I'll be back to read or change my vote before the deadline.
This is especially bizarre given that nothing especially unusual had happened between his prior 'suspicion' post on GreyMist and the follow up one. If Wiggles truly believed that GM was mafia, why bother with the possibility that he might be a 'given up' townie. It seems to me that Wiggles believes that GM was in fact not mafia and is just putting up some insurance to deflect attention from himself once the GM flipped.
Not to mention, this is one of the most flimsy vote justifications I've seen.
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On March 19 2013 09:06 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:01 zarepath wrote:
Vivax I stop reading your posts as soon as you make reads on others based on the fact that I am scum.
Like, you are wasting tons and tons of time and energy based off of my poor play. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and make cases on people without me being scum as the prime argument.
Back to work now. What should I do, you guys defended each other so obviously it becomes evident to those who start by looking at your voting. FYI though, my case on you, GK and cosmicomics isn't centered on the connection to you, that is just what links you together in the bigger picture and actually gave away TPS and glurio to me. Why do you refer to your play as poor though?
Because I'm town and too many people think that I'm not. I didn't have much time to play over the weekend and wasted it by saying noncommittal things and then bouncing, making it look worse.
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On March 19 2013 10:08 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:06 Vivax wrote:On March 19 2013 09:01 zarepath wrote:
Vivax I stop reading your posts as soon as you make reads on others based on the fact that I am scum.
Like, you are wasting tons and tons of time and energy based off of my poor play. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and make cases on people without me being scum as the prime argument.
Back to work now. What should I do, you guys defended each other so obviously it becomes evident to those who start by looking at your voting. FYI though, my case on you, GK and cosmicomics isn't centered on the connection to you, that is just what links you together in the bigger picture and actually gave away TPS and glurio to me. Why do you refer to your play as poor though? Because I'm town and too many people think that I'm not. I didn't have much time to play over the weekend and wasted it by saying noncommittal things and then bouncing, making it look worse.
And you're still doing....
pointless post just like BadKarma
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On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote:
Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him.
First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process.
What did you think of my case on Hopeless1der? Nobody has responded to it yet.
In other news, I like Trance's point on Wiggles -- his post could be scum prepping for a Greymist town flip. Will be looking into that more.
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On March 19 2013 10:13 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote:
Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him.
First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process. What did you think of my case on Hopeless1der? Nobody has responded to it yet. In other news, I like Trance's point on Wiggles -- his post could be scum prepping for a Greymist town flip. Will be looking into that more.
You do that. I have a firm opinion on that post; so will be interesting what you decide to muster.
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So after looking through Wiggle's filter, he starts off not liking GreyMist or goodkarma, both of which were already under suspicion by other players. After that, everything else he says is defending a player -- he defends Coag's meta, he suggests that people's arguments against TPS aren't good enough (while also stating that he doesn't know how he feels about the guy himself -- wait and see), when asked specifically to talk about Coag he makes a super long post that ends up with a tl;dr of "wait and see", says he's going to take some time to digest goodkarma's defense, defends Vivax against the suggestion of a scumslip, says that VE's case on DP isn't that strong, then criticizes a DYH lynch.
His final vote/read that he actually sticks to is one he only makes after sciberbia specifically asks him what he thinks about GM and GK, and he ends up picking GM, and his first reason why is "as I stated earlier in the thread;" ie, I was totally thinking he was scum the whole time even while I was voting for GK, the guy I no longer thing is scum. BTW, he really likes Ryu's case on him, and uses that in his argument.
Then you have the post that Trance brought up. It looks a lot like he spent most of D1 criticizing arguments and not actually going after scum, and when he finally had to pick, he was apologetic for it and seems to be prepping himself for a town flip.
I read him as scum until he provides some cases or reads, because so far he has only suspected two people, one of which he unvoted and the other one he was almost apologetic about voting for.
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On March 19 2013 10:44 zarepath wrote:
So after looking through Wiggle's filter, he starts off not liking GreyMist or goodkarma, both of which were already under suspicion by other players. After that, everything else he says is defending a player -- he defends Coag's meta, he suggests that people's arguments against TPS aren't good enough (while also stating that he doesn't know how he feels about the guy himself -- wait and see), when asked specifically to talk about Coag he makes a super long post that ends up with a tl;dr of "wait and see", says he's going to take some time to digest goodkarma's defense, defends Vivax against the suggestion of a scumslip, says that VE's case on DP isn't that strong, then criticizes a DYH lynch.
His final vote/read that he actually sticks to is one he only makes after sciberbia specifically asks him what he thinks about GM and GK, and he ends up picking GM, and his first reason why is "as I stated earlier in the thread;" ie, I was totally thinking he was scum the whole time even while I was voting for GK, the guy I no longer thing is scum. BTW, he really likes Ryu's case on him, and uses that in his argument.
Then you have the post that Trance brought up. It looks a lot like he spent most of D1 criticizing arguments and not actually going after scum, and when he finally had to pick, he was apologetic for it and seems to be prepping himself for a town flip.
I read him as scum until he provides some cases or reads, because so far he has only suspected two people, one of which he unvoted and the other one he was almost apologetic about voting for.
Strike 100 zare.
Mr. Wiggles is probably one of my strongest townreads at the moment.
His analysis is actually quite strong and he is not afraid to go against popular opinion (he shut down VE's read on DP just as it was gaining traction amongst the town), risking being seen as soft defending a scumbuddy.
He stuck with his reads on GK and GM throughout the day, if you read his posts, with his opinions changing slightly as more information cropped up.
This post of yours on the other hand is just a summary of Mr. Wriggle's filter with a weak case against him at the end; which you assume to be scummy when in fact he read correctly into GreYMist's lack of caring. He did call him scummy in the end but I would argue is unapologetic about it; much like my tunneling of geript last game he points out the GM put us in a bad position essentially looking really scummy during the day and his lack of attendance and giving up with regards to his lynch forced the town's hand.
Looking mroe into your recent posts:
On March 19 2013 10:08 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:06 Vivax wrote:On March 19 2013 09:01 zarepath wrote:
Vivax I stop reading your posts as soon as you make reads on others based on the fact that I am scum.
Like, you are wasting tons and tons of time and energy based off of my poor play. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and make cases on people without me being scum as the prime argument.
Back to work now. What should I do, you guys defended each other so obviously it becomes evident to those who start by looking at your voting. FYI though, my case on you, GK and cosmicomics isn't centered on the connection to you, that is just what links you together in the bigger picture and actually gave away TPS and glurio to me. Why do you refer to your play as poor though? Because I'm town and too many people think that I'm not. I didn't have much time to play over the weekend and wasted it by saying noncommittal things and then bouncing, making it look worse.
This is what makes me really think you're scum. In NMM 37 this was not your style of play at all even when you weren't around. You would pop in from time to time and take strong stances and PUSH your reads rather than sit back (aside from the fake case on me at the start). You've played in enough games to know better than this; hell it would have been better for you to lurk than to do what you're doing, you'd draw less attention to yourself.
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On March 19 2013 10:13 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote:
Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him.
First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process. What did you think of my case on Hopeless1der? Nobody has responded to it yet. In other news, I like Trance's point on Wiggles -- his post could be scum prepping for a Greymist town flip. Will be looking into that more.
One reason for that might be that you spoilered the entire thing...
Looking at it, as best I can tell you point out that Hopeless hasn't really provided much substantive content, and that his complete flip on his stance on Darth is odd. I could see some potential scum motivation for these actions, but honestly your case is pretty thin. You can't just go through a guy's post history and say "this and that are odd..." What we're interested in is scum motivation. As in: Why is it that this particular post is more likely for scum Hopeless to make than town Hopeless? As it stands your recent case posts sometimes read like summaries of the guy's actions. Which is just fluff that makes it ten times harder to read, and doesn't add any value... The Hopeless case was not that substantial imo, which is part of the reason people probably didn't say much about it. With a rather sparse filter and a replacement coming in, we'll have a better read on him after Ace subs in.
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GK.. now we know your alive.
Thoughts on what zarepath raised in regards to Mr.Wiggles
GOGOGO
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Just got home from a 12 hour work shift. I'd like to get in a post before the deadline, but I'm pretty dead tired and I still have to deal with the personality mafia night post. I'll see if I'm still awake an hour from now. If you don't hear from me and I happen to die tonight, I think goodkarma is still the best bet for tomorrow for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
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On March 19 2013 11:00 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 10:13 zarepath wrote:On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote:
Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him.
First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process. What did you think of my case on Hopeless1der? Nobody has responded to it yet. In other news, I like Trance's point on Wiggles -- his post could be scum prepping for a Greymist town flip. Will be looking into that more. One reason for that might be that you spoilered the entire thing... Looking at it, as best I can tell you point out that Hopeless hasn't really provided much substantive content, and that his complete flip on his stance on Darth is odd. I could see some potential scum motivation for these actions, but honestly your case is pretty thin. You can't just go through a guy's post history and say "this and that are odd..." What we're interested in is scum motivation. As in: Why is it that this particular post is more likely for scum Hopeless to make than town Hopeless? As it stands your recent case posts sometimes read like summaries of the guy's actions. Which is just fluff that makes it ten times harder to read, and doesn't add any value... The Hopeless case was not that substantial imo, which is part of the reason people probably didn't say much about it. With a rather sparse filter and a replacement coming in, we'll have a better read on him after Ace subs in.
You read his most recent cases, then read this:
On February 14 2013 12:20 zarepath wrote:
I don't know, so many holes here. Conveniently not believing in bread crumbs, not claiming in the hour that he himself said that the vigilante should have claimed, only killing WaveofShadow so that he could get INFORMATION on Corazon, wanting to stay "null" so scum don't have a target for tomorrow night... I mean, giving town a confirmed townie on Day 2 is HUGE, and getting picked of N2 isn't so awful because that means any active blue roles we may have get a full nother night of actions in.
Really dubious claim.
##Vote ObviousOne
The rest of his filter that game is constant questioning of other with regards to his reads, and some list posts yes, but without fluff; he actually takes a stand in many of these.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 14 2013 04:10 zarepath wrote:Zarepath's Readsby Zarepath9-Bit + Show Spoiler +
Nothing to see. Looking forward to a modkill or replacement.
Sevryn + Show Spoiler +
I had a null read on him at the lynch -- he jumped on my fake case, added a little to it, tunneled glurio. But post-flip, he went very proactively defensive for it, saying that everybody was too focused on glurio/himself as the dichotomy. But HE was focused on glurio. Now that glurio's flipped, I want to see what his reads are on EVERYONE. If he was so certain about glurio, who does he think is scum now?
Slight scum read on Sevryn.
WaveofShadow + Show Spoiler +
I see him as being mostly proactive with a variety of reads. I don't understand what his big controversial post quoting Mocsta and Sn0_Man was about, other than the fact they wanted to go after lurkers and their plan failed. I read him as genuinely trying to help town.
Sn0_Man + Show Spoiler +
His filter's filled with a lot of theory, policy, and meta talk. He interacts directly with a lot of other posters, and is very active. But towards the end of Day 1, he was practically begging other people to make cases he could bandwagon onto, finally settling on Sevryn. He is active enough that I don't consider him scummy, but trudging through his filter doesn't make me think he's absolutely pro-town. Leaning town, but not as sure as I used to be.
ObviousOne + Show Spoiler +
His assessment of Day 1 was pretty useful. I agree with Mocsta that we need to see his reads. Null, slightly to town based on his opening, but only slightly.
Warbaby + Show Spoiler +
Starts with general policy talk, his third post is a list, needlessly antagonistic to WoS, bunch of meta, insults everybody's mafia skills, tells people to mislynch him, prefers voting lurkers over scum, constantly asserts that he has no idea who the scum are, his final top 3 are sylencia, sevryn, then glurio. Is now focused on sevryn. I don't think he's as scummy as I've thought of him now that I've read thorugh the whole filter; I have a null read on him now, depending on how his case on Sevryn develops.
geript + Show Spoiler +
Geript was one of the only ones who really dug into my fake WoS case. He bought it, but only after he went through it and actually criticized a few of the points. He now has a case on Corazon that is at least original, and it's labeled Case 1, suggesting he has another case coming. I read him as leaning town.
Mocsta + Show Spoiler +
Super active first half of Day 1, went to "actively lurking" since after pouting about knowing when he's not wanted, and has done a lot of things that I see as pro-town -- encouraging two names so we can have clear bandwagons, picking apart bad logic, etc. I read him as town. The only other thing I'll note is that it's odd how little he's contributed (although he still has tons of filter). I think he's legit going for a different strat, but will keep an eye on him, obviously.
Corazon + Show Spoiler +
His Day 1 seemed pretty typical of his town meta, but he really pushed on his WB vote but didn't actively try to persuade anyone else; he just kept re-quoting his case, and then when the lynch was getting confusing, instead of asking for consolidation onto his TOP READ that he's had all day, instead he bandwagons onto Glurio. It's hard to judge any voting motivations from the Day 1 lynch, but this is suspicious to me. He gave a pretty town response to my WoS case, though. Null, leaning town.
Mandalor + Show Spoiler +
Mandalor's filter looks very scummy. Every other post is a list, the main thrust of his case on Sylencia has to do with blue talk, and the case for his final vote is not compelling at all. He just drops a random vote and checks out, doesn't even wish town luck. (To be fair, I did something similar because of time and RL constraints.) People's reactions to my vote on Mandalor were that they had town reads on him, but I'd like to ask you all what specifically makes him look town to you, because I don't see much. Reads SCUM
Sylencia + Show Spoiler +Pretty vocal opponent of RNG there at the beginning, then his activity fades from there. He speculates HARD on warbaby's possible blue roles, not necessarily a very pro-town thing to do in public on Day 1, and that is the biggest contribution he made at all. He said he hadn't read very many filters, admitted to tunneling warbaby, then voted for him. In the end, he posted this gem: On February 13 2013 09:54 Sylencia wrote:
.. What lol, I gave my reasons before and I'm voting for him to consolidate my thoughts on him. I will have to change my vote to glurio if required to stay alive though. Town don't change their votes in order to stay alive; town believe in their scum reads or are willing to work with other people's scum reads. THey certianly don't do so just to stay alive; lynching scum is more important than a town's individual life. This quote makes it sound as though his number one concern is not being lynched. It's worth going through all the filters, apparently, because this was the last post in the final filter, and I think it's the biggest, latest scum tell. In conclusion, people I think are suspicious and would like other's thoughts on: Sevryn Warbaby Mandalor Sylencia Obv and 9-Bit's replacement also deserve scrutiny. But right now my two biggest reads are Sylencia and Mandalor. I think people should look at my brief reads on them, read their filters, and I want to hear your own conclusions.
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Can you explain how your super strong town read only had two people he suspected, one of which flipped blue, and has said nothing post-flip?
I don't think that shutting down cases is that necessarily pro-town when you have no other real suspects of your own. It is easy and risk-free to shut down rogue cases that threaten to gain traction when the main suspects aren't scum.
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EPT
