EPTTL Mafia LIX - Page 56
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On January 22 2013 11:36 grush57 wrote: Hooray d1 is over an a scum got lynched. Grush. your still my #1 read. Maybe I am tunneling because of your insta-insert of ya "Starsenses" tag line; however, your filter history since that post has done nothing to persuade me otherwise. All I see in your filter is:
To me, nothing of note, otherwise known as flying under the radar. Whilst town may fly under the radar to avoid NKs or watever; I find it very peculiar you are tying in lurking in the shadows with your "STARSENSES"/ I AM TOWN first post. @Grush57 I want to know your read on Oatsmaster and why. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
I would spend your time looking at other players. Funny, coming from me, but Grush plays like this often. Only time will tell with him. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On January 22 2013 13:22 yamato77 wrote: Mocsta I don't think grush is scum, and I don't think accusing him is going to make it more evident even if he is. I would spend your time looking at other players. Funny, coming from me, but Grush plays like this often. Only time will tell with him. Yamato, Something you are well aware of.. You pressure your read until either: (1) Convince you they are innocent or (2) Convince you they are scum Grush has not convinced my he is innocent, and has given me no reason to even consider him as innocent. Maybe for everyone else there are better reads, but for me he is my best until (1) or (2) is satisfied. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 22 2013 13:37 Mocsta wrote: Yamato, Something you are well aware of.. You pressure your read until either: (1) Convince you they are innocent or (2) Convince you they are scum or (3) 3 to 5 vets (a number so high that assuming all of them are mafia is bullshit) tell you the dude in question is town or (4) it's a spam-/shitfest and both factions are screaming like little children. In that case don't stop, but make a pause for 1 or 2 days instead and cool down. There's more fish in the ocean. Grush has not convinced my he is innocent, and has given me no reason to even consider him as innocent. Maybe for everyone else there are better reads, but for me he is my best until (1) or (2) is satisfied. Fixed. Not directed at you at all though :p | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
I can agree with (4) completely. In regards to (3) I would stop if a suitable reason is given. I respect the vets, and do not have a problem listening to them if the reads are substantiated with proof. Telling me.. "Grush is town because I am a vet, no more needs to be said " doesnt cut the mustard for me and is my my opinion an "appeal to authority". A fallacy I choose not to indulge in. BTW. I don't recall anyone actually sticking up for Grush i.e. (3)? Im happy to be corrected on this one though... Unless of course if you meant vets ignoring my stance on Grush, as indication they disagree. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I am going to include my reasons for doubting my initial inclination, but I want to make a condensed version of what I have noted on his play already in my filter. I will consider it the last thing I will say on the matter until something changes, or it becomes apparent to me that other people are also catching on to the issues I bring forth about Vivax's play. But before I do that, I'm going to do a little digging. It occurs to me that I have only ever played with mafia Vivax, so I am going to look at a town game or two of his and see if I can draw any meaningful comparisons. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
My appeal to you to discontinue your pursuit of Grush is that I don't think anything he is going to do in response to your accusations is going to change your mind. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
lol twas @ yamato.. i probably shouldnt have just admitted that, but made me laugh too hard | ||
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DearestSnot
Germany200 Posts
Certainly, there are games in which grush has made himself relatively readable but I don't think this is one of them. Note that I don't think there's necessarily any reason to call grush scum either, but I do think that people like him need to be threatened with lynch more, as the forum suffers greatly from indirectly encouraging that type of play. I think it needs to end so that games aren't overloaded with deadweight townies. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
The vets obviously know more about the game than we do.. they can use that experience to aid us, or abuse us.. I think they keep saying.. "vet says do it this way" to test if we have the balls to think for ourselves. if we capitulate and give in, we are just useless townies that town/mafia vets can exploit as needed. If vets provide substantiated reads; at least I can make a judgement on whether they are trying to help town or not. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
There exist things i do not do + Show Spoiler + [20.01.2013 03:48:08] Erik: well you'll get shot if you're town... [20.01.2013 03:48:16] Sandro Maculan: sure [20.01.2013 03:48:22] Sandro Maculan: that's okay perhaps they are so obvious that is pointless policy but its mine as I simply dont know what is and isnt so obvious. So no perceived upside no speak, is my intent. (What i perform depends on skill and stuff.) Now that they are done there is the question of what I ought ask you tonight... + Show Spoiler [fluff context purpose] + The time stamps in those logs look pretty fast and furious, I like real life like conversation as they are what i have got "reads" ion in my real life, perhaps masoning when it happens will get me the real time conversations I can read intent in? BUT It would take serious work to effectively recreate the experience of that, so your recollections of your read, which may in time be confirmed to be townie, or your distraction and obtusification, if in time you get to be the other, would be appreciated. So what real time impression did Toad Give you. I have not noticed yet you even literally confirm them although it would be pretty much to dumb to be real to fake them while your alive in the hope you wont read them. BUT Specifically do the edits match what was claimed? I don't yet see where anywhere in that published part of the Mason thread that you pressured quizzed or in anyway determined it was town or scum mason talking to you. Did you? are you sure you were not just flattered? Where did your mind start bias wise when you got the mason contact? Also as you have not yet flipped.... do you see any contradiction between what the content of these Logs say, and what preconceptions toad setup in peoples mind with his analysis of what the logs would mean before he dumped them? Also as you have not yet Flipped. I find your lackadaisical approach concerning to me, especially if i don't know how hard you considered the questions above yet your apparent silence, lack of suspicion, seems to be being used as an endorsement of Toad? So how diligently are you playing with that short filter? Earlier you made this read... on JieXian http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17577426 "I think this dude is scum. " Quite unequivocal, (hence townie maybe?) but where did that go? Well Vivax sheeped it Vivax Said shortly after: + Show Spoiler + Sandro already called out one of them = JieXian. That said, if sandro ran for mayor, I would elect him too. I like that read. Who would be happy with a JieXian lynch? I would be! and asked open ended for endorsement of your his Lynch? and say this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17577988 Did that raise suspicions with you, why not? Was it as the mayoral policy stated "My major influence in steering the outcome of a lynch will be applied to pressure people. No passive play with me, no feeling comfortable in easy bandwagons." I find the discrepancies alarming. Do you see any steering, non easy wagons or second thoughts. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 22 2013 14:33 DearestSnot wrote: I personally don't find any reason to defend grush's play as townlike, nor do I find it plausible that he is actually as readable as yamato says he is. Certainly, there are games in which grush has made himself relatively readable but I don't think this is one of them. Note that I don't think there's necessarily any reason to call grush scum either, but I do think that people like him need to be threatened with lynch more, as the forum suffers greatly from indirectly encouraging that type of play. I think it needs to end so that games aren't overloaded with deadweight townies. I understand this appeal, and I agree with it, but town is usually averse to the idea of lynching a player they can't get a read on. I don't think there's much we can do other than straight up lynch him or wait for him to be more readable. I would consider his continued absence in the thread tantamount to a scum claim, so perhaps later on in day 2 if he's done nothing else and town hasn't outright caught scum, we can more seriously entertain the idea of lynching him. Right now, though, I am more willing to give him a chance because I think the possibility that he is town and playing like this is higher than other people who are doing similar disappearing/blending acts, such as Clarity or Annul. I think Annul, especially, deserves a hard inspection tomorrow as his encouragement of my suspicions on Vivax and Toad could certainly be seen as fanning the flames, and he never really substantiated his read on Vivax in particular despite insisting that he be lynched. His mayoral campaign, if you can call it that, was extremely weak. I don't feel like he gave a shit at all about what town was trying to do yesterday, which colors my read on him quite red. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On January 22 2013 14:31 yamato77 wrote: What he means, Mocsta, is that he was aiming those two points at me. My appeal to you to discontinue your pursuit of Grush is that I don't think anything he is going to do in response to your accusations is going to change your mind. Disagree. Why are you stepping in for Grush before he has even responded? If you think he is town from his filter, I would prefer you to direct me to what I am missing. If you think I am being a hypocrite for asking why you interjected, note, I called out Vivax because he was campaigning for others to dig up dirty of JieXian at that point in time, and potentially sheeped Sandroba. Grush is my read, and Im doing the followup work. Completely different situations. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 22 2013 14:35 Mocsta wrote: Well regardless.. I meant what I said about the appeal to authority. The vets obviously know more about the game than we do.. they can use that experience to aid us, or abuse us.. I think they keep saying.. "vet says do it this way" to test if we have the balls to think for ourselves. if we capitulate and give in, we are just useless townies that town/mafia vets can exploit as needed. If vets provide substantiated reads; at least I can make a judgement on whether they are trying to help town or not. That is precisely why I haven't given up on my read of Vivax. I'm not discouraging your read, I'm just telling you that spending your time trying to make Grush do stuff probably isn't going to work. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On January 22 2013 14:44 yamato77 wrote: I'm not discouraging your read, I'm just telling you that spending your time trying to make Grush do stuff probably isn't going to work. Noted, and that is the case in point. The more he resists, the stronger the evidence. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
I woulda thought at this stage with the pressure on him, he would be working to exonerate himself? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
On January 20 2013 22:08 Mocsta wrote: @Grush57.. I have a problem, and your the man to fix it. STARSENSES... Why are you unleashing your "famed" town breadcrumb so early. 1 Post in, and going for the trademark. This is scummy as fuck to me. Why is 'unleashing' his town breadcrumb early scummy? Shouldnt you judge him on his play rather than his 'breadcrumb' timing? Also, why are you so butthurt that Toad keeps spouting that 'vets' reads are more important? Do you want to feel important? Join a mini then :D | ||
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