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I fully agree with what Bugs said about Grush.
Furthermore you have to distinguish between people you want to be shot and people you want to be lynched when looking at people you want to see dead. That is if you have the luxury of doing that.
Lynching Grush would be an awfully terrible idea right now. Because of what bugs said. If that guy ends up flipping town we gave mafia the easiest time looking like they're doing something for an entire cycle because all there is to him is that he's lurkish, useless and ... well grush. Everyone can easily attack him for that and look like he's doing something.
Analyzing what happened afterwards would be really hard as well because there's no reason not to want Grush dead, so I couldn't possibly held people accountable on their actions when choosing to vote Grush or not to vote him.
That's the kind of guy you want to have vigged if you want him dead and not lynched. Not saying he looks townish at all, he doesn't. He's unreadable right now, which is a bad sign considering that I've got at least 50% of this game down as preeeetty certain town right now. So process of elimination works fine with him sometime later as well, which tells me to ignore him again.
You want to lynch people who are looking scummy while not being easy to take a stance on. That's literally everyone who's not a policy lynch because even if it fails, you get something out of that.
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Speak of the devil. Good timing.
In his first post, he already attempts to associate himself (subtlety) as town. Not because he said "I am town" -everyone says that - but because of the breadcrumb. Which he can conveniently play later in the game as "I am town, this is my trademark". I took action to remove the card up his sleeve. If he wants to be considered town, he needs to prove it through his actions.. not token trademarks.
Either way, what directed me his way was the early breadcrumb. But why I have continued to call him out is due precisely to his play.
If you are telling me that after doing a filter check on Grush he is seeping town through his pores, then it makes clear sense why you are a top lynch candidate for Day 2.
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On January 22 2013 15:00 Toadesstern wrote:
I fully agree with what Bugs said about Grush.
Furthermore you have to distinguish between people you want to be shot and people you want to be lynched when looking at people you want to see dead. That is if you have the luxury of doing that.
Lynching Grush would be an awfully terrible idea right now. Because of what bugs said. If that guy ends up flipping town we gave mafia the easiest time looking like they're doing something for an entire cycle because all there is to him is that he's lurkish, useless and ... well grush. Everyone can easily attack him for that and look like he's doing something.
Analyzing what happened afterwards would be really hard as well because there's no reason not to want Grush dead, so I couldn't possibly held people accountable on their actions when choosing to vote Grush or not to vote him.
That's the kind of guy you want to have vigged if you want him dead and not lynched. Not saying he looks townish at all, he doesn't. He's unreadable right now, which is a bad sign considering that I've got at least 50% of this game down as preeeetty certain town right now. So process of elimination works fine with him sometime later as well, which tells me to ignore him again.
You want to lynch people who are looking scummy while not being easy to take a stance on. That's literally everyone who's not a policy lynch because even if it fails, you get something out of that.
Now THATS the vet type insight im looking for, even though its elementary for you guys.
Noted; I have said my piece to the vigis out there and will move on.
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Oh and I'm not saying vet-reads are more important. They aren't.
They are more consistent (most of the times, yes I'm looking at you bugs).
That's not that much of a big deal when talking about mafiareads because they can still be wrong a lot of times. So when a vet isn't explaining a mafiaread you shouldn't just sheep. He's probably doing that to gauge reactions.
On townreads it's something different though, those are so easy to do that you usually don't feel like explaining and you know that the majority of vets agrees with you anyways, so there's no need to. Which means if there's 4 vets telling you someone is town, even without reasoning you should listen to that.
I already mentioned I don't like talking about townreads. That's not because talking about townreads is essentially that bad but rather because it's a null without reasoning. If I provide reasoning I however end up giving mafia the key to "How to make Toad think you're a Townie", which really isn't that good of an idea in my opinion, so those townreads naturally will come without reasoning a lot.
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Useless post Mocsta.
Ok so who would you be willing to lynch at this point?
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don't forget, there are double lynches this game.
We can vote for a double lynch tomorrow, and I think we should. On day 3 a double lynch will be really really helpful, seeing as it's probably the only time we'll have enough useful people who are still alive to organize a proper lynch effort to make it worthwhile, and at the same time we will probably be needing extra KP to get rid of people who aren't doing anything.
If we choose not to enact double lynch tomorrow then it will encourage further lurking on the part of mafia.
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On January 22 2013 14:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also, why are you so butthurt that Toad keeps spouting that 'vets' reads are more important? Do you want to feel important? Join a mini then :D
Just in case you didnt realise. When I said speak of the devil it was in reference to you.
As for this, its nothing to do with being butthurt.
I will presume you posted that before reading this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=56#1113
If I was a vet, I would be doing exactly the same thing: emotional blackmail of sorts. Its fucking effective too.
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11589 Posts
On January 22 2013 15:10 Oatsmaster wrote:
Useless post Mocsta.
Ok so who would you be willing to lynch at this point?
The better question is, who would YOU be willing to lynch outside of Stutters?
Hm?
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11589 Posts
On January 22 2013 15:10 DearestSnot wrote:
don't forget, there are double lynches this game.
We can vote for a double lynch tomorrow, and I think we should. On day 3 a double lynch will be really really helpful, seeing as it's probably the only time we'll have enough useful people who are still alive to organize a proper lynch effort to make it worthwhile, and at the same time we will probably be needing extra KP to get rid of people who aren't doing anything.
If we choose not to enact double lynch tomorrow then it will encourage further lurking on the part of mafia.
I also agree with this, for extra reasons.
While the town mayor is still alive, it is in our best interest to abuse his extra voting power to the maximum, and the early application of the double lynch, and thus double of his votes, allows us to do that.
Plus, it makes mafia players take more stances in one day than they normally would, which gives us more information, which is always better to have earlier, rather than later.
Doublevote tomorrow, it's the pro-town thing to do.
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On January 22 2013 15:10 Oatsmaster wrote:
Useless post Mocsta.
Ok so who would you be willing to lynch at this point?
Why dont you tell me the flaws in my approach if you think it is useless?
Noone else is standing here saying they think Grush is town, yet you feel the need to step in. Why is this the case?
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I'd say we wait and see what Palmar says about the doublelynch and the bodyguards. I don't know who they are just yet and I think considering that might be a good idea. We only have 2 doublelynches which means we don't have to rush it THAT much.
A doublelynch on either d2 or d3 is pretty much sure but I don't think we have to risk it right now.
Grush might be a nice secondary lynch when we're out of targets for a doublelynch after all. I'd still say there's better people to look at right now.
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11589 Posts
Who are those people, Toad?
Aside from my bias against Vivax, which I am trying to reconcile, my red reads are as follows:
Annul
Djo
Clarity
Oats
For reasons I and other have mentioned about their play.
Do you agree or disagree with these targets for tomorrow?
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you can't double lynch day 2. Day 3 is the earliest.
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On January 22 2013 15:25 yamato77 wrote:
Who are those people, Toad?
Aside from my bias against Vivax, which I am trying to reconcile, my red reads are as follows:
Annul
Djo
Clarity
Oats
For reasons I and other have mentioned about their play.
Do you agree or disagree with these targets for tomorrow?
Oats
Annul
JX
djo
in that order imo. Maybe add Chez but he's the same as grush just a bit more likely to flip mafia due to his campaign.
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oh gawd I really need to read the roles I don't posess as well :p
I thought it's the "Mayor decides to doublelynch via pm at night" doublelynch...
Well yeah, if we're getting a doublelynch the next day we're going to get one d3 pretty much no matter what.
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Oatsmaster
On January 22 2013 11:02 FiveTouch wrote:
Honestly, prplhz's mafia flip just makes Oats look even worse than before.
You asked me to look into an alternative scum read.. This comment from FT piqued my interest.
I did a filter search on you with "prplhz" and found little content other than asking Toad to follow up on mr.hendrix (as he said he would).
I also happened to notice this...
On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok on to FiveTouch,
He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads.
Now I know that you later responded to FT by saying you dismissed the case.. but...
I find your declaration of prplhz being a mislynch to carry too much conviction for me.
Considering I already thought youe had scummy qualities about your play (Mocsta summary of Oats)
The prognosis is NOT looking good for you being town.
So Oatsmaster.. still a useless post? 
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11589 Posts
Yeah idk about Vivax at all. I can't find meaningful differences between his town and scum games, lol.
Fuck it, you guys better not be wrong about him.
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Ok well Im thinking that at least one of the 4 mayor candidates yesterday is scum. And I think that the scum is Gonzaw.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2013 15:36 gonzaw wrote:
I sincerely can't understand what Axle is posting :/
I could figure out he questioning Vivax on his campaign initially, and wanted to vote Chezinu, but I have no idea what "I sheep Toad, even if i needed to find all my own reasons" means
I also kind of skimmed/ignored parts of his last post since I didn't understand a thing.
Seemed pretty funny in pre-game...not so much now. Then never mentions Axle again. On January 21 2013 05:43 gonzaw wrote:
I'm not enjoying this "aggressiveness" you are showing Vivax, seems too needlessly provocative.
Although you running for mayor in the first place (while being considered "not-vet" by most of us) doesn't really seem like something you'd do as scum, and maybe this "aggressiveness" stuff just means you are getting over-excited or something.
Meh, certainly not enough to make any call other than leaning slightly town on you (gut feeling) so I'll let that pass.
This reads as,
Scummy, not scummy, meh I dont know.
And then again, never questions Vivax at all.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 21 2013 05:48 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 18:32 sandroba wrote:
What questions are those? About not wanting to run? I don't have a satisfatory answer, I simply decided this pre game and has nothing to do with alignment. Well.........*sigh* I kind of feel this is "obvious scum sandroba", but obviously until he actually has the time to do something useful to town we can't do much about it :/ What kind of makes me "mad" about the "obvious scum vets" in games, is how people always let them be. Like, this happened with scum Foolishness in like 2 consecutive games where he lived until D5 or something. Either people ignore them, or say "meh, he could be town and thus could be an asset". These kind of people are so "obvious" scum (in a matter of speaking of course) when they roll scum and nobody does anything about it :/ I'd said sandro is one of those (maybe Palmar as well, although slightly less), based on the games I've obsed with him being scum (and Liar Game of course, where he lived...wait for it...until D5). I get the "if he's actually town he can be an asset" idea many people have.....but if he's just screaming scum at your face you can't try bullshitting your way out of that.
Mentions Sandro and that he might be scum and AGAIN doesnt pressure him or nothing, not like you would do with your scum reads.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 21 2013 05:51 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, it seems funny to me that SO many people "voted" in this thread, yet there are like only 3 votes in the voting thread :/
This applies to Clarity, JieXian and others who put "##Vote: xxx" in here.
Is it that hard to find the Voting thread in the main page?
Random post that doesnt help anyone and is fluff but he phrases it like it is alignment indicative whether people vote in the Voting thread. Throwing suspicion subtly.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 21 2013 13:52 gonzaw wrote:
Djoref, what do you think of Stutters? I didn't really notice you mentioning him that much.
Also, do you think Clarity has more chances of flipping scum than Oats or Stutters or maybe even sandro, etc? On January 21 2013 14:03 gonzaw wrote:
EBWOP:
Oh well nevermind.
Speaking of which Mocsta, what do you think of Stutters and Clarity? I don't remember you mentioning them in your filter.
Testing the waters on whether he should push a stutters or clarity lynch.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 22 2013 10:12 gonzaw wrote:
Oh shit lol
I stand corrected.
Doesnt post about what the prp flip means to the reads that he has on the mayor and the people who pushed his lynch. Also, seems weird for a townie post.
Therefore, out of the runners, I think that GONZAW is scum.
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All you people can't you see, can't you see
How your love's affecting our reality
Every time we're down
You can make it right
And that makes you larger than life
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Mocsta
On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok on to FiveTouch,
He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads.
Apparently you stopped reading after you found something that substantiated your point about me thinking that prp would be a mislynch. Must be an honest mistake and not you trying to misquote me right?
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EPT
