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Lets get some facts and guesses:
1) Proleague require for the caster to be in korea
Having caster outside of korea introduces a lot of technical problems with the stream. Good example of that was Iron Squid 1 Grand Finals (had to located the "secret" main feed channel to have no video issues), and the second week of Proleague when:
a) casters were losing the feed stream (routing from half around the world)
b) the video feed degraded too much due to the double compression
2) Proleague requires total commitment from the casters:
Its for 8 months and 4 days of casting each week which is the biggest problem for english casters.
Little guessing game:
Would you earn more doing more short tournaments or just do one all the time?
Heck even Tastosis (and the rest of GSL casters) isn't doing Gom all the time. They are doing other tournaments also and they cast like 2 days( max 4) a week anyways.
Basically all established casters did a little math and decided that it wasn't worth it.
Kespa should just go with short term contracts with casters. Like getting them for a round (roughly a month). Some top casters might jump for such a chance since it would still be possible for them to do some other events. When their contract finishes.
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Yeah, emphatic "GG's" is something any BW fan should have fond feelings towards. But... if your tone doesn't reflect what kind of game it was or what just transpired, then it's just awkward and takes away from legit good games. If they're bad, that sounds natural: how many are good at anything when they just start doing it? You just have to wait and see how it pans out. Bad casting or not, if that ever becomes a deal breaker, then the game is not that great anyways.
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No offence to these guys but I think I'll go back to watching Korean stream- I can't understand everything said but the game seems much more epic and exciting and hey I watched Korean streams for BW for about 6 years! For most of us it's not like we really need any explanation about what's happening, creating the atmosphere is what's important and the Korean casters are great for that.
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So, I've bought my sub but I can't watch vids at 480p, it just defaults to HD and can't be changed.
I can afford the sub but bandwidth is crazy expensive and I really need SD.
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Maybe if Grubby goes to Korea for practice he can do some casting for some time..
:D
*hopes*
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On December 25 2012 23:37 tomatriedes wrote:
No offence to these guys but I think I'll go back to watching Korean stream- I can't understand everything said but the game seems much more epic and exciting and hey I watched Korean streams for BW for about 6 years! For most of us it's not like we really need any explanation about what's happening, creating the atmosphere is what's important and the Korean casters are great for that.
Sooo, the guy will go proxy rax... and his opponent will scout it... *yawn*
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the casters are bad  sry the english guy seems ok but this guy with asian accent is so horrible he fall in word, he say exactly the different thing from the other caster its hard to understand and often just wrong
perhaps someone tells me which caster is which voice so i know who i like and who i hate xD
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On December 25 2012 22:06 budar wrote:
Just to chime in, I'm really disappointed that the casters changed. I feel EG/TL should have been more open about the stipulations of their agreement. In fact, iNcontrol talked about it on SotG, but much like himself, I thought they'd get the deal extended for the whole season. I can't help but feel that KeSPA used them to get more subscriptions, even if it was only 5 bucks...
Anyway, I have nothing against the new casters, I'm sure they're trying. It's just that I'm way past listening to casters that know so little about the game. Just an example from one of the recent matches: 25 lings running towards a planetary. One of the caster's is saying something to the effect of "ooh, will they be able to get a surround on that planetary... I think the SCVs should be able to repair". Safe to say, the planetary didn't drop below 95% health and the whole thing was over in line 5 seconds.
The yelling doesn't help either. Yelling does not equal excitement. I was hoping this was a temporary thing as well, but seeing it's not, I'll just watch muted.
why would you feel that kespa used them when you admit you have no idea what the "stipulations of their agreement" was?
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On December 26 2012 02:13 CoR wrote:the casters are bad sry the english guy seems ok but this guy with asian accent is so horrible he fall in word, he say exactly the different thing from the other caster its hard to understand and often just wrong perhaps someone tells me which caster is which voice so i know who i like and who i hate xD
i fell the same way...he always interrupts his co-caster and they just dont seem to harmonize. maybe they just need to get to know each other, so they can become a good casting duo...
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Canada1126 Posts
Thanks to Incontrol for clarifying the issue with the casting. Its really unfortunate that its still all up in the air, it really shows. I hope it gets resolved. His and Tyler's comments were spot on for SPL. How did SNM get the gig in the end? Are we going to get another set of casters as part of a test rotation?
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They have a great format, great players, a great legacy... but it's just freakin sad how they get things going with the foreign scene...
When I see that and I compare it to how awesome GomTV are with us... How awesome would that be if we could get the Proleague format, the awesome BW legacy but by the GomTV management?
Yes, there was some stream issues when it was casted from a duo of invited casters from abroad but it was 10 times more enjoyable for us. Seriously... it's ProLeague. Why SuperNovaManiac? I can hardly understand what he is saying and he is always interupting is co-casters... and most of the time, it's really for no reason.
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On December 26 2012 13:25 Dr.Sin wrote:
Thanks to Incontrol for clarifying the issue with the casting. Its really unfortunate that its still all up in the air, it really shows. I hope it gets resolved. His and Tyler's comments were spot on for SPL. How did SNM get the gig in the end? Are we going to get another set of casters as part of a test rotation?
Where did he comment on it?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Here is the bottom line for me:
1. I really don't like the idea of pro league being casted in English so poorly. This is no hate.. Just raw facts. Both these guys could end up great, sure. ATM they both cannot analyze the game at a standard we'd expect at an IPL, Mlg, esl, DH, NASL etc.. So why is anyone ok with it for pro league? The blame here is kespa. Find enough money to make it no question that its worth someone who is established's time to move out. That way we get a polished league with top notch games. If you can't afford that then make concessions to strike a deal with doa's employer and let him cast, it was fine.
2. Online cast was better but not good enough. Level of casting was higher. Live cast has no camera work as commentators are sitting in an office, not even at the studio.. So only separating factor is connectivity and easier to fix tech issues. I guess smoother broadcast is better.. At least in short term but to neglect level of commentary in the name of control is sad. This should be a temp fix but I am assuming having moved whiplash out they are hired long term which goes back to my point #1 MAYBE they become good.. But we deserve better than a maybe and be forced to endure low level commentary now.
Look, I am not hating the commentators but I am a firm believer in the best of the best needing to be funneled to esports most important positions. Pro league should be something I show to a friend and try to win them over to sc2. Again, maybe they grow into good commentators but right now they simply are not. To be frank the ones on these forums saying "they aren't bad" is complete BS. I hate being this critical but again, the prestige that I believe is deserved of a pro league commentating position calls for this level of honesty: neither passes for a charismatic color man and this is made especially problematic when their analysis is so low. It's nice having a guy who can translate Korean commentate but that can be done by a 3rd guy and when I have to hear them miss call, give false emotion, not know strategies or just in general not be familiar with sc2's current form it drags it all down.
They both seem like nice guys and I don't blame them for 1 second taking this job. I am upset the casting of pro league was taken apparently lightly by kespa and as such we are in a position to be rightfully critical of two guys in over their head. I hope they rise to the occasion or we get more deserved replacements. I am going to keep watching and keep giving them my money with or without whiplash/SNM and I encourage you to do the same. I just think in this instance we are clear to be critical!
Ps written from iPhone sorry for
Mistakes
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On December 26 2012 17:25 iNcontroL wrote:
Here is the bottom line for me:
1. I really don't like the idea of pro league being casted in English so poorly. This is no hate.. Just raw facts. Both these guys could end up great, sure. ATM they both cannot analyze the game at a standard we'd expect at an IPL, Mlg, esl, DH, NASL etc.. So why is anyone ok with it for pro league? The blame here is kespa. Find enough money to make it no question that its worth someone who is established's time to move out. That way we get a polished league with top notch games. If you can't afford that then make concessions to strike a deal with doa's employer and let him cast, it was fine.
2. Online cast was better but not good enough. Level of casting was higher. Live cast has no camera work as commentators are sitting in an office, not even at the studio.. So only separating factor is connectivity and easier to fix tech issues. I guess smoother broadcast is better.. At least in short term but to neglect level of commentary in the name of control is sad. This should be a temp fix but I am assuming having moved whiplash out they are hired long term which goes back to my point #1 MAYBE they become good.. But we deserve better than a maybe and be forced to endure low level commentary now.
Look, I am not hating the commentators but I am a firm believer in the best of the best needing to be funneled to esports most important positions. Pro league should be something I show to a friend and try to win them over to sc2. Again, maybe they grow into good commentators but right now they simply are not. To be frank the ones on these forums saying "they aren't bad" is complete BS. I hate being this critical but again, the prestige that I believe is deserved of a pro league commentating position calls for this level of honesty: neither passes for a charismatic color man and this is made especially problematic when their analysis is so low. It's nice having a guy who can translate Korean commentate but that can be done by a 3rd guy and when I have to hear them miss call, give false emotion, not know strategies or just in general not be familiar with sc2's current form it drags it all down.
They both seem like nice guys and I don't blame them for 1 second taking this job. I am upset the casting of pro league was taken apparently lightly by kespa and as such we are in a position to be rightfully critical of two guys in over their head. I hope they rise to the occasion or we get more deserved replacements. I am going to keep watching and keep giving them my money with or without whiplash/SNM and I encourage you to do the same. I just think in this instance we are clear to be critical!
Ps written from iPhone sorry for
Mistakes
Don't know why DoA isn't casting...
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On December 26 2012 17:35 Za7oX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 17:25 iNcontroL wrote:
Here is the bottom line for me:
1. I really don't like the idea of pro league being casted in English so poorly. This is no hate.. Just raw facts. Both these guys could end up great, sure. ATM they both cannot analyze the game at a standard we'd expect at an IPL, Mlg, esl, DH, NASL etc.. So why is anyone ok with it for pro league? The blame here is kespa. Find enough money to make it no question that its worth someone who is established's time to move out. That way we get a polished league with top notch games. If you can't afford that then make concessions to strike a deal with doa's employer and let him cast, it was fine.
2. Online cast was better but not good enough. Level of casting was higher. Live cast has no camera work as commentators are sitting in an office, not even at the studio.. So only separating factor is connectivity and easier to fix tech issues. I guess smoother broadcast is better.. At least in short term but to neglect level of commentary in the name of control is sad. This should be a temp fix but I am assuming having moved whiplash out they are hired long term which goes back to my point #1 MAYBE they become good.. But we deserve better than a maybe and be forced to endure low level commentary now.
Look, I am not hating the commentators but I am a firm believer in the best of the best needing to be funneled to esports most important positions. Pro league should be something I show to a friend and try to win them over to sc2. Again, maybe they grow into good commentators but right now they simply are not. To be frank the ones on these forums saying "they aren't bad" is complete BS. I hate being this critical but again, the prestige that I believe is deserved of a pro league commentating position calls for this level of honesty: neither passes for a charismatic color man and this is made especially problematic when their analysis is so low. It's nice having a guy who can translate Korean commentate but that can be done by a 3rd guy and when I have to hear them miss call, give false emotion, not know strategies or just in general not be familiar with sc2's current form it drags it all down.
They both seem like nice guys and I don't blame them for 1 second taking this job. I am upset the casting of pro league was taken apparently lightly by kespa and as such we are in a position to be rightfully critical of two guys in over their head. I hope they rise to the occasion or we get more deserved replacements. I am going to keep watching and keep giving them my money with or without whiplash/SNM and I encourage you to do the same. I just think in this instance we are clear to be critical!
Ps written from iPhone sorry for
Mistakes Don't know why DoA isn't casting...
In a word, politics. :/
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I don't think it's unreasonable for them to want the full-time casters in Korea; however it's not like people that are looking for casting opportunities get to practice for such environments anyway, at least the casters that could move to Korea on such a short time frame. Admittedly the casters could use work but anyone you send there would face the same scenario. Foreign tournaments are used to having the same arrangement of casters so of course they can't commit full-time, and the sharing of casters between events has to an extent stifled the growth for there to be many casters up to the "standards" of the community.
Simply put, I think the only thing we can really do is sit it out and hope they get better or Kespa tries to get someone else. Anyone else you could offer as a caster would be largely unknown no matter who they are, and the odds of you convincing Kespa that you shouldn't let them control their own broadcast will be unlikely to go over well.
With that being said, if you just want to start running a gauntlet of casters that would be willing to move to Korea, make sure these trials are open in a FAIR manner to anyone that would be interested. Otherwise, just pray that SNM and Whiplash get their shit together sooner than later.
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On December 26 2012 17:25 iNcontroL wrote:
Here is the bottom line for me:
1. I really don't like the idea of pro league being casted in English so poorly. This is no hate.. Just raw facts. Both these guys could end up great, sure. ATM they both cannot analyze the game at a standard we'd expect at an IPL, Mlg, esl, DH, NASL etc.. So why is anyone ok with it for pro league? The blame here is kespa. Find enough money to make it no question that its worth someone who is established's time to move out. That way we get a polished league with top notch games. If you can't afford that then make concessions to strike a deal with doa's employer and let him cast, it was fine.
2. Online cast was better but not good enough. Level of casting was higher. Live cast has no camera work as commentators are sitting in an office, not even at the studio.. So only separating factor is connectivity and easier to fix tech issues. I guess smoother broadcast is better.. At least in short term but to neglect level of commentary in the name of control is sad. This should be a temp fix but I am assuming having moved whiplash out they are hired long term which goes back to my point #1 MAYBE they become good.. But we deserve better than a maybe and be forced to endure low level commentary now.
Look, I am not hating the commentators but I am a firm believer in the best of the best needing to be funneled to esports most important positions. Pro league should be something I show to a friend and try to win them over to sc2. Again, maybe they grow into good commentators but right now they simply are not. To be frank the ones on these forums saying "they aren't bad" is complete BS. I hate being this critical but again, the prestige that I believe is deserved of a pro league commentating position calls for this level of honesty: neither passes for a charismatic color man and this is made especially problematic when their analysis is so low. It's nice having a guy who can translate Korean commentate but that can be done by a 3rd guy and when I have to hear them miss call, give false emotion, not know strategies or just in general not be familiar with sc2's current form it drags it all down.
They both seem like nice guys and I don't blame them for 1 second taking this job. I am upset the casting of pro league was taken apparently lightly by kespa and as such we are in a position to be rightfully critical of two guys in over their head. I hope they rise to the occasion or we get more deserved replacements. I am going to keep watching and keep giving them my money with or without whiplash/SNM and I encourage you to do the same. I just think in this instance we are clear to be critical!
Ps written from iPhone sorry for
Mistakes
I have stayed quiet about this thing and honestly haven't had the time to watch these two specific casters (running my channels, casting tournaments, holiday stuff, blah blah whatever) but one thing I will say in GENERAL that bugs me about Esports is how we tend to keep reinventing the wheel.
What I mean by that is we already have TONS of good casters who have been around for years. A tournament is likely to go from a professional broadcast to amateur hour when an unknown or new caster is brought on board. I can only imagine how poorly this would go over in a sport like UFC or NFL if almost every single cast had someone completely new to broadcasting.
Now thats not to say people out there shouldn't try to get into what it is they want to do for a living. But when we push the brand new people right to the top it honestly makes Esports look like a joke. Sure, 4 year ago me would have LOVED to do a live event like this, but past me would have also done a terrible job and not done anyone any favors except for myself. My first tournament was the Valor tournament that involved Tasteless and that was suuuuper small time. After that I made my OWN tournament for fear of ruining someone elses project with my inexperience.
Like I said, I haven't watched these guys before so I wont comment on how good they are, but overall I think ALL events need to take a good hard look at if they want to take steps forward or keep restarting their brand each time.
Esports has **MAJOR** improvements it needs to undergo in order to be taken serious outside of hardcore fans and players themselves. Until we get the caster situation sorted out its going to be extremely difficult to move forward IMO.
(Please note, I actually turned down the majority of events this year for personal reasons that I've listed many times in the past, this is not a jab to try and keep anyone down so I can get ahead)
Hope that makes sense.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Agreed and appreciate the post husky
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All in all, I would say that the politic and desire of KesPA to control all of the English broadcast hurts them badly. Instead of getting Doa, which is quite good and has experience in SC2 casting by a lot, for both the broadcast from OGN studio and IEG studio, they choose to try reinvent the wheel instead because they want to control every aspect of the broadcast.
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EPT
