EPTEG & TL to Produce English Proleague Broadcasts - Page 41
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Eifer
United States138 Posts
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CiCeRoSC2
United States83 Posts
We should be very careful about who we blame though. If you're just going to insult the casters, keep it to yourself. Constructive criticism is great, but you don't need to be a dick about it. These are two guys that want to be a part of SC2 and were offered a dream job. If you're going to be a jerk, direct it towards Kespa. They clearly just have no idea how the foreign SC2 scene works. I respect that they want casters there in person and they had a hard time finding people willing to move to Korea. I never really understood what the Doa problem was but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on it. But to bring two inexperienced casters to cast what is supposed to be the most prestigious SC2 league is ridiculous from both a business and fan perspective. If they really want to develop their own talent, let them cast the less popular matches, but for casts getting 10,000+ views like the EG-TL matches, you can't have new casters. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
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Almtom
Sweden132 Posts
On December 26 2012 17:25 iNcontroL wrote: Here is the bottom line for me: 1. I really don't like the idea of pro league being casted in English so poorly. This is no hate.. Just raw facts. Both these guys could end up great, sure. ATM they both cannot analyze the game at a standard we'd expect at an IPL, Mlg, esl, DH, NASL etc.. So why is anyone ok with it for pro league? The blame here is kespa. Find enough money to make it no question that its worth someone who is established's time to move out. That way we get a polished league with top notch games. If you can't afford that then make concessions to strike a deal with doa's employer and let him cast, it was fine. 2. Online cast was better but not good enough. Level of casting was higher. Live cast has no camera work as commentators are sitting in an office, not even at the studio.. So only separating factor is connectivity and easier to fix tech issues. I guess smoother broadcast is better.. At least in short term but to neglect level of commentary in the name of control is sad. This should be a temp fix but I am assuming having moved whiplash out they are hired long term which goes back to my point #1 MAYBE they become good.. But we deserve better than a maybe and be forced to endure low level commentary now. Look, I am not hating the commentators but I am a firm believer in the best of the best needing to be funneled to esports most important positions. Pro league should be something I show to a friend and try to win them over to sc2. Again, maybe they grow into good commentators but right now they simply are not. To be frank the ones on these forums saying "they aren't bad" is complete BS. I hate being this critical but again, the prestige that I believe is deserved of a pro league commentating position calls for this level of honesty: neither passes for a charismatic color man and this is made especially problematic when their analysis is so low. It's nice having a guy who can translate Korean commentate but that can be done by a 3rd guy and when I have to hear them miss call, give false emotion, not know strategies or just in general not be familiar with sc2's current form it drags it all down. They both seem like nice guys and I don't blame them for 1 second taking this job. I am upset the casting of pro league was taken apparently lightly by kespa and as such we are in a position to be rightfully critical of two guys in over their head. I hope they rise to the occasion or we get more deserved replacements. I am going to keep watching and keep giving them my money with or without whiplash/SNM and I encourage you to do the same. I just think in this instance we are clear to be critical! Ps written from iPhone sorry for Mistakes How about Incontrol casting proleague? I think most fans would agree that he is a great caster? | ||
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Fishriot
United States621 Posts
On December 26 2012 18:37 Almtom wrote: How about Incontrol casting proleague? I think most fans would agree that he is a great caster? I don't wan't to speak for him, but I have a feeling that picking up and moving to Korea for an extended period of time may not be practical for him, being newly married, his current obligations for EG, etc. | ||
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BlackPanther
United States872 Posts
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FrodaN
754 Posts
Also, to bring in TWO new people simultaneously is extremely risky (and clearly not paying off currently considering the public outrage). Reliable analysis is much like a credit score nowadays as it is easy to wreck early on and tough to build considering the brutal scrutiny of listeners (including me!). I would like to think that a large, significant chunk of my assimilation into the NASL broadcast was because there was Bitterdam, Gretorp, and our new EP there to basically carry me until I understood what the hell was going on and what was demanded of me for a good broadcast. A team with experience and immense talent already existed as I joined. The proleague english "team" is completely new and no one is there to lighten the burden. | ||
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BlackPanther
United States872 Posts
On December 26 2012 18:54 FrodaN wrote: The 1st point conclusions from Geoff is spot on: KeSPA desparately needs to improve the english side of production and casting. I've watched probably 75% of proleague thus far and have noticed a few things. There is literally no ability for SNM/whiplash to physically address the camera and therefore have to do a complete radio broadcast. This in itself is tougher to establish personality and conversation because viewers can't identify who is talking to them. If you need a more vivid example, think about how much emotional charge an ace match would lose if there was no player shots or camera settings to connect the spectators to the players. Also, to bring in TWO new people simultaneously is extremely risky (and clearly not paying off currently considering the public outrage). Reliable analysis is much like a credit score nowadays as it is easy to wreck early on and tough to build considering the brutal scrutiny of listeners (including me!). I would like to think that a large, significant chunk of my assimilation into the NASL broadcast was because there was Bitterdam, Gretorp, and our new EP there to basically carry me until I understood what the hell was going on and what was demanded of me for a good broadcast. A team with experience and immense talent already existed as I joined. The proleague english "team" is completely new and no one is there to lighten the burden. The analysis is spot on but I think we have to look at the most important part of this issue which is the revenue. I don't have any of KeSPA's data so I can't say this with certainty but I suspect they found it to be more cost-effective to have two unknown casters as opposed to a single A-list caster like DoA. According to Sundance on the last SoTG where he was asked a question regarding casters and their profitability, he mentioned that casters like Day9 or Tastosis were too expensive for them to be worthwhile casters. I'm guessing KeSPA has a similar but more extreme view regarding this issue which is why they picked up these two guys as opposed to signing DoA. I'm curious if anyone actually has any hard viewership numbers between the time when we had Bitter and TB casting and the two new guys come on. If viewership has dropped enough, we might see a shake-up in casting potentially. | ||
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Kaitokid
Germany1327 Posts
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Panthae
Canada205 Posts
If ProLeague actually wants to expand viewership into America, which I believe is true considering them adding EG-TL to the league this year, they need to start treating us like they treat korean SC2 fans, with the respect due to a fan and often paying customer. I haven't been able to watch a full cast of ProLeague in the past few weeks and, albeit a small amount, I feel like paying for this level of casting is kindof ridiculous... I hope MLG's relationship with KeSPA might help force their hand into hiring someone with a little bit more experience. Doesn't need to be Tastosis if it's too expensive, but Khaldor is one in the area that I think has paid his dues to earn that spot, for example. Anyways, hope this gets fixed soon, I've been getting way too much sleep these past few weekends.  | ||
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Nathanias
United States290 Posts
On December 26 2012 19:20 opterown wrote: Times like these where you really appreciate how difficult it is to break into casting for StarCraft haha It's hard to get ANYWHERE in this scene without a lot of time, effort and especially luck | ||
Waxangel
United States33360 Posts
alright, so that's exaggerating somewhat - inc and husky have improved a lot since NASL S1 and the SC2 beta days, respectively. But I can't be the only one who finds the act of holding PL up on some pedestal in order to take down two newcomers somewhat distasteful and hypocritical. All the polite language in the world doesn't mask that. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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Hellfire29
Australia4 Posts
On December 26 2012 19:18 Panthae wrote: Doesn't need to be Tastosis if it's too expensive, but Khaldor is one in the area that I think has paid his dues to earn that spot, for example. Anyways, hope this gets fixed soon, I've been getting way too much sleep these past few weekends. Khaldor, Wolf, Tastless and Artosis have their work for GOM to consider as they are broadcast at the same time. Khaldor could show up last match because he didn't have to do his regular broadcast. IMO, SNM should stay on as a translator which probably wouldn't break any contract agreements. No idea what Whiplash could do, but I'm willing to bet Kespa is going to make one of them observe the games next week so he could do that and an experience caster could be brought on. Alternatively, and probably a much better idea, is to get someone like DoA or another reasonably experience English caster to cast alongside one of them, probably Whiplash, so he gets some experience and can become a better caster. | ||
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
On December 26 2012 19:39 Waxangel wrote: so apparently there's a terrible-casters guild that agrees not to criticize each other, but gangs up on newcomers alright, so that's exaggerating somewhat - inc and husky have improved a lot since NASL S1 and the SC2 beta days, respectively. But I can't be the only one who finds the act of holding PL up on some pedestal in order to take down two newcomers somewhat distasteful and hypocritical. All the polite language in the world doesn't mask that. I have to disagree here. Neither Husky or InControl's first tournament they casted were like super high profile tournaments like the Proleague. They did smaller tournaments, some even organized themselves (Husky/HD) and expanded from there. What happened here is two relative unknown casters put in place to cast what many consider a very prestigeous high profile tournament. It's absolutely not ideal and the only to blame here is Kespa. Those casters won't pass on a opportunity to cast the PL. For them it's like the golden ticket into the scene! It's one thing to put on up and coming casters like Axeltoss in the PL which I personally would be pretty fine with but people I've never heard of and the cast being not that enjoyable does kill it for me a bit. | ||
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Opera
France469 Posts
There is a lot of room for improvement but they are casters in foreign events who are worse than them. What bothers me most is : - Lack of game knowledge - Lots of BW, on buildings and players names. - They seem to both have the "Moletrap's disease" (trying to insert puns every single sentence they make) - They don't add much entertainment value to the game - No caster differentiation. They both have similar voice and since there is no camera shots on them, it's hard to tell who's who. Plus, they have no defined roles in their duo (entertainment / analysis), which goes along with point 1. I hope they will improve throughout the season. I also wish they open a feedback thread on their casting as Khaldor did a while ago. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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ELlminator1
Australia344 Posts
On December 26 2012 19:39 Waxangel wrote: so apparently there's a terrible-casters guild that agrees not to criticize each other, but gangs up on newcomers alright, so that's exaggerating somewhat - inc and husky have improved a lot since NASL S1 and the SC2 beta days, respectively. But I can't be the only one who finds the act of holding PL up on some pedestal in order to take down two newcomers somewhat distasteful and hypocritical. All the polite language in the world doesn't mask that. How much worse would they have to be before you think we should suggest getting someone else to cast proleague? They have no sense of humour, one of the casters has problems pronouncing words and sometimes stutters. He also had an annoying voice. These things can't be fixed. Their game knowledge and confidence while casting is also lacking. Starting off the cast saying the terran player is protoss or that the blue player is yellow is a basic mistake and yet they keep doing it. Then they bicker about if they really said yellow instead of blue for the following minute of the game. Finally the shouting during the match and when GG is called is unanimously hated by the community. Sure they'll improve over time but when the bar is set so low it is going to take months for them to get to a tolerable level for me to listen to. These two have landed their dream job of casting to thousands of people each night but they are doing a terrible job. I feel sorry to be crushing their dreams but I truly think they shouldn't be casting currently. | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On December 26 2012 19:39 Waxangel wrote: so apparently there's a terrible-casters guild that agrees not to criticize each other, but gangs up on newcomers alright, so that's exaggerating somewhat - inc and husky have improved a lot since NASL S1 and the SC2 beta days, respectively. But I can't be the only one who finds the act of holding PL up on some pedestal in order to take down two newcomers somewhat distasteful and hypocritical. All the polite language in the world doesn't mask that. Of course you're exaggerating somewhat, as you usually do. I remember the first time I heard IncontroL cast was in some team league right at the beginning of sc2, can't remember the name...gosucoaching premier league perhaps. anyway it was obvious he had the charisma and also had some solid knowledge of the game to perform a decent cast. These two casters totally lack either of those two qualities. | ||
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