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Why we should lynch Inig
First of all, I would like you to read Inig's filter before you read this case. It's not going to take you long time and you should also make your own opinion by yourself.
I would like to lynch Inig for the following reasons
- Total lack of scumhunting
- Emotionally detached from this game
- Attempt to gain town cred by using a WIFOM argument
Total lack of scumhunting
+ Show Spoiler +Even if he is claiming that he has done some scumhunting, Inig has not given us any scumread and has asked a total of two questions to other players. He is not putting pressure or anyone or trying to understand the motives of anyone. On October 25 2012 15:39 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Ah yes i see, the 'why' is more important than the 'what'. Excellent, Sylver answer Djo when u wake up. On October 26 2012 08:34 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Right now I dont have any scum reads, only town reads which Ive already said in earlier posts. So I would lynch one of the lurkers probably. Also, Djo you seem to be the only one really going after me, so while your asking everyone what they think of me, you should answer your own question. what you you think of me?
-Should be back to post something in around 6-7 hours. As you can see, he is not really committing, even when he asks some questions.
Emotionally detached from this game
+ Show Spoiler +When I'm reading Inig's filter, I have the feeling that he is spectating this game and not a part of it. This is a characteristic of mafia players. He tries to look active by telling us what is going on in the thread in his view but he is not giving us extra information. This post is a perfect example of such an empty posing style. On October 25 2012 15:27 Inigmaticalism wrote:I have a thought regarding the Rad-Debears argument, over the whole 'confidence' thing. Its possible Im wrong, but it seems that Rad views the world in a more 'logical' way, meaning that in this case (playing mafia) having sound logic and scum reads will naturally result in confidence from said logic. Debears may happen to be more 'emotional', in this case where having a strong will/confidence allows for people like him (and me) to be very logical when there is a strong emotional base beneath them. You've both brought up the pros and cons about each type of viewpoint, so it should be beneficial if you guys watch out for each other. It seems you've both explained what you meant fairly well, and Im especially glad to see this post from you Rad cause I was getting slightly worried. Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 14:11 Rad wrote:
EBWOP - I also agree that there's no point in lynching a lurker over a clear scum read. That's not what I said originally but is what he's trying to make it seem like I said. Ha just saw you summed up my analysis for me: Show nested quote +You're pushing for "have confidence, the scum will show" while I'm pushing for "find the scum, if you're confident push it, otherwise we should lynch lurker". That stance seems completely reasonable to me. Does it not to you? @ sylver You seem fairly energetic. Also, don't really think "What's your favorite role to play in mafia?" keeps us all that focused on scum hunting, but as it may be some clever scheme of yours Ill bite. ......Well actually I won't because I realized I was typing how I play the game. How clever. Loaded question indeed.
Attempt to gain town cred by using a WIFOM argument
+ Show Spoiler +This is the most incriminating point in my opinion. Please have a careful look at the following part from Ini in bold font. On October 26 2012 03:42 Inigmaticalism wrote:
/snip
As for everyone else I need to read their posts again. It seems my scum-hunting has so far resulted in town-finding, but thats how its gone. Also, I deliberately dodged sylvers question about what your favorite role is to play to show I was town(which, ironically because he was role hunting, still answered his question). I would never have posted such an awkward response if I was mafia, I would have simply ignored the question all together, but it seems no one took it that way. How can you show that you are town by not answering question ? Why does he bring something like this up ? Mafia players usually try to get as much town cred as they can, for whatever weird reason. I think he knows his reason to claim town are bad and that's why he is backing it up by a WIFOM argument.
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On October 26 2012 12:18 debears wrote:@DjoDo you believe that Inig fits the category of lurker? His filter is less than a page. Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 10:08 Clarity_nl wrote:So.... you're trying to get a strong response by asking what Alsn thinks Inig, which he has done to two other people before him. So what's the reason you brushed off his FoS? On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
@debears
You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard"
Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard.
You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day.
You are advocating chaos.
If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything.
##FoS debears @ClarityI don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch. By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ? What do you think of Inig ? On October 26 2012 02:04 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 01:45 Dandel Ion wrote:On October 26 2012 01:42 Djodref wrote:@RadMy comments in red in your quoted post. On October 26 2012 01:28 Rad wrote:On October 26 2012 01:21 debears wrote:
Ok. But what individually makes us stand out as scum?
I'm going to reread the thread a couple of times tonight and figure this all out.
##Unvote This is some of what I've got from you and/or djo 1. Pushed the confidence theme hard, as if to make it seem like we NEED to have a scum lynch d1 rather than a policy lurker lynch. FUUUUUuuu. You are doing it again. Policy lynching is just an option and it is a bad option in my opinion because mafia can avoid it easily, especially when town decides to apply this strategy from the beginning. Lynching a suspicious player get us more chances to lynch mafia. We should start to scumhunt in order to do so, not throwing FoS at each other for disagreeing over policy.2. Acted overconfident as if it was easy to make a scum read on d1 (is it? doesn't seem like it, and that's not due to lack of confidence, it's due to lack of information). I'm not saying it is easy, I'm saying it is totally possible and you should have this mentality rather than the policy lynch solution mentality. Would you like to comment about Inig by the way ?3. Twisted people's statements, either responding with something that had nothing to do with the original statement, or focusing heavily on a particular statement as if to give it more importance than it really should have. Please be more specificAll of these things feel scummy to me. You don't get it. You establish a lurker-lynch policy early. Potential lurkers see it and go all "oh shit if I lurk I'm gonna die" So they don't lurk. If you say "nah I'm completely against lynching lurkers" or "We should lynch the most active people" What do lurkers do when they see that? They'll tell themselves "cool, I'm set" And then they lurk. I'm not against a policy lynch but I think it would be better to bring it up when the right time comes (like 6 hours before the lynch ? anyway at a time we can finally identify some serious lurker). Taking an early decision against or for policy lynches is just going to help mafia to use this decision on their favor. Anyway, a lot of people seem to favor a policy lynch for today. I'm not going to go against it but I would appreciate these people to get into super scumhunting mode right now. I'm not going to forgive laziness at all, especially if you are supporting a policy lynch. By the way, what do you think about Inig ? On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).
The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.
So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.
I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then. @AlsnI would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me  What do you think about Inig ? Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini. Djo, why would Alsn be able to come up with something consistent if he thought you were scum? This sounds like scum with a guilty conscience. Scum know they are guilty. Their posts are made with the intention to mislead town, meaning that they know that traces of their deception are in their own posts. If you were townie, you would feel that your filter is not filled with scummy things, since you would be honest and sincere. This post definitely does not give that read of honesty.
@debears
I got a scummy read from that line as well as the previous one: "Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post." I think you're spot on on your analysis with that. It's very close to what I was thinking but wasn't sure how exactly to say it.
I think my more recent discussions with Djo might help convince you further.
Djo, if you're town, you don't have much chance left to clear your name. Time to stop avoiding the controversies around you and clear things up.
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@Rad
Yeah, his recent activity is coming off scummy as is his early play as shown in my case. Let's hear what he has to say.
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ebwop
The line before that you mention "I don't care if Alsn has a FOS on me". I don't read scummy in that line. A town is just as likely to say that as scum
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Also, I have thoughts on some of Djo's case which I disagree with Djo on. I would like to see how Inig answers, although I don't know how long that will take....I will probably give him til tomorrow morning my time
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On your case Debears: You've reiterated some of what's been said, or what I have observed already. You did present some new information, though. In particular, the following quote that I cannot agree with:
Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:03 debears wrote:
@Rad
Last game newbie game I was totally wrong with all my reads. But I'm not going to let it affect my faith in my ability to find scum. Moreover, even if I'm wrong, I'm giving mafia less room to hide if I take strong a clear stances about some players.
I don't have strong scumread at the moment but I would prefer to confront people in a very direct way if I start to be suspicious of them. Because that's how I think I can generate the most useful information. It seems natural for you but it wasn't at all in my previous newbie game, so I want to encourage people to have this state of mind. This is all I'm thinking about when I'm talking about confidence (so it's not exactly confidence in your reads).
On a side note, if you have understood that I've called debears town, I think you have misinterpreted my post. Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town. It's a feeling I have from I read in his post (similar to the last game we have played together where he was townie) and his general behavior in his game.
Believe or not, being aggressive like this early game benefits town. Because it allows us to have constructed discussion...
"Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town". What does this mean??????? So I'm townie to you but not at the same time? This is a weak statement that is a contradiction in a mafia-oriented way to his play. By saying that I have townie vibes but am not town is keeping a door open for suddenly accusing me later. Who wants to keep an open door for sudden accusation on any person in the game? Mafia.
I have a little problem with this notion. You can definitely get a "town vibe" from somebody but not fully consider them town. Always being suspicious and vigilant, especially with no hard evidence like on d1, is wise. I don't think this is a valid point, to be honest.
Despite this, Djodref has a mountain against him. One of your new points really stuck out to me:
On October 26 2012 12:03 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:
@sylver
I've explained why I've answered this question ("are you mafia") already. Could you please re-read my filter and tell me if you are satisfied or not with my explanations ?
I don't care if I look clean or not, my principal concern is to find the mafia. And, for your information, I'm not tunneling you, just putting you under some pressure. The only player I have a FoS on is Inig as for now.
I'm accepting your explanations and I would like you to tell us what you think about Inig. I'm insisting on him because mafia players have this tendency to semi-lurk while looking like they contribute.
Regarding Rad, I'm trusting debears to take care of him right now ^^ I'm following their exchanges with great interest. He's "trusting me to take care of Rad". Wow. Why the disinterest in pursuing him? Why is he willing to lay back and let me take the reins on accusing him? Why would a townie want another townie to "take care of" pursuing someone? Scum, on the other hand, want townies to do the dirty work for them.
If Djodref really thinks Rad is scum, why let someone else pursue? If you have a read, go for it. Don't beat around the bush and go off into the distance. Being multi-focused is acceptable, it's confusing why Djo would just "let debears take care of it". It makes no sense, unless he somehow knows Debears is town.
In terms of the scumslip, I'm still thinking that the reference to Do0ud being town is a scum tell. His explanation for it, while being entirely plausible, fails to convince me whatsoever. His saying "my main concern is finding mafia" also doesn't sit well.
The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it.
##Vote: Djodref
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On October 26 2012 12:42 debears wrote:
ebwop
The line before that you mention "I don't care if Alsn has a FOS on me". I don't read scummy in that line. A town is just as likely to say that as scum
It's the bolded part that I'm talking about. "if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post" I mentioned this in another post that it seems scummy to me but I can't quite put my finger on it. In particular the "if" aspect is bothering me.
Might be a stretch but I read those 2 lines and was like... "wait what??" I feel like if anyone came at me with a argument about why I'm suspicious, I would at the very least attempt to shut it down regardless of how dumb I thought the reasons were. He's saying the opposite, that he would defend himself if the reasons were better (according to him) but since they're not he just doesn't care.
As a town, one should clear their name at all costs yes? For all he knows, Alsn's argument could help convince others to vote him, and if he's town, not defending himself would be stupid.
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Going out. I'll post from my phone to respond to Rad and Cheesecake in a little.
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And to respond to Djodref, since he is always asking about people's reads on Inig.
On Inig: The only two things I find suspicious about him are
A.) Him throwing a tantrum over the WIFOM incident. "This argument is stupid" etc.
B.) Semi-Lurking.
Hardly enough to go on. Until he posts more, I have an -at best- slight scum read on him.
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If anyone has any questions/concerns please post now. I'm heading for bed soon, and won't be back until after my 10:00AM class (~12 hours)
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On October 26 2012 12:18 debears wrote:@DjoDo you believe that Inig fits the category of lurker? His filter is less than a page. Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 10:08 Clarity_nl wrote:So.... you're trying to get a strong response by asking what Alsn thinks Inig, which he has done to two other people before him. So what's the reason you brushed off his FoS? On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
@debears
You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard"
Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard.
You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day.
You are advocating chaos.
If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything.
##FoS debears @ClarityI don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch. By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ? What do you think of Inig ? On October 26 2012 02:04 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 01:45 Dandel Ion wrote:On October 26 2012 01:42 Djodref wrote:@RadMy comments in red in your quoted post. On October 26 2012 01:28 Rad wrote:On October 26 2012 01:21 debears wrote:
Ok. But what individually makes us stand out as scum?
I'm going to reread the thread a couple of times tonight and figure this all out.
##Unvote This is some of what I've got from you and/or djo 1. Pushed the confidence theme hard, as if to make it seem like we NEED to have a scum lynch d1 rather than a policy lurker lynch. FUUUUUuuu. You are doing it again. Policy lynching is just an option and it is a bad option in my opinion because mafia can avoid it easily, especially when town decides to apply this strategy from the beginning. Lynching a suspicious player get us more chances to lynch mafia. We should start to scumhunt in order to do so, not throwing FoS at each other for disagreeing over policy.2. Acted overconfident as if it was easy to make a scum read on d1 (is it? doesn't seem like it, and that's not due to lack of confidence, it's due to lack of information). I'm not saying it is easy, I'm saying it is totally possible and you should have this mentality rather than the policy lynch solution mentality. Would you like to comment about Inig by the way ?3. Twisted people's statements, either responding with something that had nothing to do with the original statement, or focusing heavily on a particular statement as if to give it more importance than it really should have. Please be more specificAll of these things feel scummy to me. You don't get it. You establish a lurker-lynch policy early. Potential lurkers see it and go all "oh shit if I lurk I'm gonna die" So they don't lurk. If you say "nah I'm completely against lynching lurkers" or "We should lynch the most active people" What do lurkers do when they see that? They'll tell themselves "cool, I'm set" And then they lurk. I'm not against a policy lynch but I think it would be better to bring it up when the right time comes (like 6 hours before the lynch ? anyway at a time we can finally identify some serious lurker). Taking an early decision against or for policy lynches is just going to help mafia to use this decision on their favor. Anyway, a lot of people seem to favor a policy lynch for today. I'm not going to go against it but I would appreciate these people to get into super scumhunting mode right now. I'm not going to forgive laziness at all, especially if you are supporting a policy lynch. By the way, what do you think about Inig ? On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).
The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.
So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.
I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then. @AlsnI would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me What do you think about Inig ? Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini. Djo, why would Alsn be able to come up with something consistent if he thought you were scum? This sounds like scum with a guilty conscience. Scum know they are guilty. Their posts are made with the intention to mislead town, meaning that they know that traces of their deception are in their own posts. If you were townie, you would feel that your filter is not filled with scummy things, since you would be honest and sincere. This post definitely does not give that read of honesty.
@debears
I think Inig fits the category of a semi-lurker trying to blend in. I don't like them much.
Regarding Alsn, him lurking like this is not fitting his town meta at all. I'm quite suspicious of him at the moment. Moreover, I'm expecting a town Alsn to give more reasons for FoS me. I'm just trying to push him to check if his FoS was faked or not.
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On October 26 2012 12:51 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:42 debears wrote:
ebwop
The line before that you mention "I don't care if Alsn has a FOS on me". I don't read scummy in that line. A town is just as likely to say that as scum It's the bolded part that I'm talking about. " if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post" I mentioned this in another post that it seems scummy to me but I can't quite put my finger on it. In particular the "if" aspect is bothering me. Might be a stretch but I read those 2 lines and was like... "wait what??" I feel like if anyone came at me with a argument about why I'm suspicious, I would at the very least attempt to shut it down regardless of how dumb I thought the reasons were. He's saying the opposite, that he would defend himself if the reasons were better (according to him) but since they're not he just doesn't care. As a town, one should clear their name at all costs yes? For all he knows, Alsn's argument could help convince others to vote him, and if he's town, not defending himself would be stupid.
@Rad
For meta reasons, I'm pretty suspicious of Alsn at the moment. I wonder if his FoS on me was faked or not.
By the way, could you tell me which part of his FoS post has convinced that I was scummy, if there is one ?
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On October 26 2012 13:15 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:51 Rad wrote:On October 26 2012 12:42 debears wrote:
ebwop
The line before that you mention "I don't care if Alsn has a FOS on me". I don't read scummy in that line. A town is just as likely to say that as scum It's the bolded part that I'm talking about. " if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post" I mentioned this in another post that it seems scummy to me but I can't quite put my finger on it. In particular the "if" aspect is bothering me. Might be a stretch but I read those 2 lines and was like... "wait what??" I feel like if anyone came at me with a argument about why I'm suspicious, I would at the very least attempt to shut it down regardless of how dumb I thought the reasons were. He's saying the opposite, that he would defend himself if the reasons were better (according to him) but since they're not he just doesn't care. As a town, one should clear their name at all costs yes? For all he knows, Alsn's argument could help convince others to vote him, and if he's town, not defending himself would be stupid. @RadFor meta reasons, I'm pretty suspicious of Alsn at the moment. I wonder if his FoS on me was faked or not. By the way, could you tell me which part of his FoS post has convinced that I was scummy, if there is one ?
Can you clarify the bolded part please?
Are you asking "which part of his FoS convinced you that I was scummy"
or "which part of the FoS was trying to convince that I was scummy"
or something else? I don't understand how you worded that sentence. I'm sure it was just a typo, but I need clarification before I can respond.
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@cheese
On the point of djos "townie vibes". Why would he defend me if he thought i wasnt town, which he stated after he stated he had townie vibes on me?
@rad
I knew you were including that part . I still don't see that part as necessarily scummy. A townie could say that he doesnt care because he honestly doesn't care about a fos. A scum has a pretty equal chance of saying the same.
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On October 26 2012 13:26 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 13:15 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 12:51 Rad wrote:On October 26 2012 12:42 debears wrote:
ebwop
The line before that you mention "I don't care if Alsn has a FOS on me". I don't read scummy in that line. A town is just as likely to say that as scum It's the bolded part that I'm talking about. " if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post" I mentioned this in another post that it seems scummy to me but I can't quite put my finger on it. In particular the "if" aspect is bothering me. Might be a stretch but I read those 2 lines and was like... "wait what??" I feel like if anyone came at me with a argument about why I'm suspicious, I would at the very least attempt to shut it down regardless of how dumb I thought the reasons were. He's saying the opposite, that he would defend himself if the reasons were better (according to him) but since they're not he just doesn't care. As a town, one should clear their name at all costs yes? For all he knows, Alsn's argument could help convince others to vote him, and if he's town, not defending himself would be stupid. @RadFor meta reasons, I'm pretty suspicious of Alsn at the moment. I wonder if his FoS on me was faked or not. By the way, could you tell me which part of his FoS post has convinced that I was scummy, if there is one ? Can you clarify the bolded part please? Are you asking "which part of his FoS convinced you that I was scummy" or "which part of the FoS was trying to convince that I was scummy" or something else? I don't understand how you worded that sentence. I'm sure it was just a typo, but I need clarification before I can respond.
which part of his FoS convinced you that I was scummy ? Thank you 
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On October 26 2012 13:28 debears wrote:
@cheese
On the point of djos "townie vibes". Why would he defend me if he thought i wasnt town, which he stated after he stated he had townie vibes on me?
@rad
I knew you were including that part . I still don't see that part as necessarily scummy. A townie could say that he doesnt care because he honestly doesn't care about a fos. A scum has a pretty equal chance of saying the same.
@debears
I was answering Rad's post+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2012 01:36 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 01:24 debears wrote:On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
@debears
You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard"
Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard.
You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day.
You are advocating chaos.
If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything.
##FoS debears Do you see the contradiction in that statment clarity/ You want town to be decisive, yet when I am (by pursuing a scumread) you FOS me for it? Are you reading the damn thread? The confidence thing isn't my only contribution. Figure it out Ugh Djo Y u answering questions addressed to me??? I'm still feeling bad for tunneling until death last game I even didn't have the balls to state that I had changed my mind about you at the end. As I feel some townie vibes from you in this game, I thought I could at least defend you this one time. debears <3 Also debears it's stuff like this (which he's done before in this thread, if I remember correctly) that just make me raise an eyebrow and give thoughts that you're both scum. He's so confident you're town already?! Because you're being super active and aggressive? Maybe I'm just paranoid but I'm finding it really hard to believe anyone is town so far. @Djo, you're coming across, to me at least, as very "happy go lucky". Like, you've figured it all out as town last newbie game, and you're back now as town again but 100% more confident and ready to take down scum! Let's do this my friend debears, who is clearly also town! That's the vibe I'm getting from you and it feels really fake.
I wanted to say that I have townies vibes from you which still stand. But I didn't consider you as 100% town.
I've chosen poor wording.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2012 12:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On your case Debears: You've reiterated some of what's been said, or what I have observed already. You did present some new information, though. In particular, the following quote that I cannot agree with: Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:03 debears wrote:
@Rad
Last game newbie game I was totally wrong with all my reads. But I'm not going to let it affect my faith in my ability to find scum. Moreover, even if I'm wrong, I'm giving mafia less room to hide if I take strong a clear stances about some players.
I don't have strong scumread at the moment but I would prefer to confront people in a very direct way if I start to be suspicious of them. Because that's how I think I can generate the most useful information. It seems natural for you but it wasn't at all in my previous newbie game, so I want to encourage people to have this state of mind. This is all I'm thinking about when I'm talking about confidence (so it's not exactly confidence in your reads).
On a side note, if you have understood that I've called debears town, I think you have misinterpreted my post. Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town. It's a feeling I have from I read in his post (similar to the last game we have played together where he was townie) and his general behavior in his game.
Believe or not, being aggressive like this early game benefits town. Because it allows us to have constructed discussion...
"Feeling townie vibes from someone doesn't mean I consider him as town". What does this mean??????? So I'm townie to you but not at the same time? This is a weak statement that is a contradiction in a mafia-oriented way to his play. By saying that I have townie vibes but am not town is keeping a door open for suddenly accusing me later. Who wants to keep an open door for sudden accusation on any person in the game? Mafia. I have a little problem with this notion. You can definitely get a "town vibe" from somebody but not fully consider them town. Always being suspicious and vigilant, especially with no hard evidence like on d1, is wise. I don't think this is a valid point, to be honest. Despite this, Djodref has a mountain against him. One of your new points really stuck out to me: Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 12:03 debears wrote:On October 26 2012 01:01 Djodref wrote:
@sylver
I've explained why I've answered this question ("are you mafia") already. Could you please re-read my filter and tell me if you are satisfied or not with my explanations ?
I don't care if I look clean or not, my principal concern is to find the mafia. And, for your information, I'm not tunneling you, just putting you under some pressure. The only player I have a FoS on is Inig as for now.
I'm accepting your explanations and I would like you to tell us what you think about Inig. I'm insisting on him because mafia players have this tendency to semi-lurk while looking like they contribute.
Regarding Rad, I'm trusting debears to take care of him right now ^^ I'm following their exchanges with great interest. He's "trusting me to take care of Rad". Wow. Why the disinterest in pursuing him? Why is he willing to lay back and let me take the reins on accusing him? Why would a townie want another townie to "take care of" pursuing someone? Scum, on the other hand, want townies to do the dirty work for them. If Djodref really thinks Rad is scum, why let someone else pursue? If you have a read, go for it. Don't beat around the bush and go off into the distance. Being multi-focused is acceptable, it's confusing why Djo would just "let debears take care of it". It makes no sense, unless he somehow knows Debears is town. In terms of the scumslip, I'm still thinking that the reference to Do0ud being town is a scum tell. His explanation for it, while being entirely plausible, fails to convince me whatsoever. His saying "my main concern is finding mafia" also doesn't sit well. The constant asking for info on Ingi / diverting attention, his useless "are you mafia?" question that I pointed out earlier, the inability to adequately answer some of the accusations/questions thrown at him. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does add up. I'm thinking he's scum. I've had a FoS on you for quite some time now, Djodref. Time to upgrade it. ##Vote: Djodref
@Cheese
Please specify which accusations/questions I couldn't address (please refer to the part in bold font in the spoiler).
I'll try to answer adequately to them this time.
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Still waiting on some content from our lurkers...
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On October 26 2012 13:29 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 13:26 Rad wrote:On October 26 2012 13:15 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 12:51 Rad wrote:On October 26 2012 12:42 debears wrote:
ebwop
The line before that you mention "I don't care if Alsn has a FOS on me". I don't read scummy in that line. A town is just as likely to say that as scum It's the bolded part that I'm talking about. " if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post" I mentioned this in another post that it seems scummy to me but I can't quite put my finger on it. In particular the "if" aspect is bothering me. Might be a stretch but I read those 2 lines and was like... "wait what??" I feel like if anyone came at me with a argument about why I'm suspicious, I would at the very least attempt to shut it down regardless of how dumb I thought the reasons were. He's saying the opposite, that he would defend himself if the reasons were better (according to him) but since they're not he just doesn't care. As a town, one should clear their name at all costs yes? For all he knows, Alsn's argument could help convince others to vote him, and if he's town, not defending himself would be stupid. @RadFor meta reasons, I'm pretty suspicious of Alsn at the moment. I wonder if his FoS on me was faked or not. By the way, could you tell me which part of his FoS post has convinced that I was scummy, if there is one ? Can you clarify the bolded part please? Are you asking "which part of his FoS convinced you that I was scummy" or "which part of the FoS was trying to convince that I was scummy" or something else? I don't understand how you worded that sentence. I'm sure it was just a typo, but I need clarification before I can respond. which part of his FoS convinced you that I was scummy ? Thank you
The content of his FoS isn't really all that important here, to me at least. The fact that you claimed it was a half-assed FoS, though, is a major reason you're suspicious to me.
He made claims, you didn't shut them down. If it's so half-assed and the argument is bad, shut it down already. If it's sooo bad you can't even respond to it because it doesn't make sense in the first place, you could point that out. If it's just "bad" and you don't feel it's worth responding to, you're leaving yourself open to whatever decision we want to make in Alsn's case vs Djo's non-case.
Just to answer your question though, I feel like he made an interesting connection (I would prefer if you want to dispute these, you take it up with him, as it's his case):
You criticize me for supporting lurker policy lynch, yet you're so focused on Inig due to his lurking (your recent case on Inig isn't helping your case against this either)
I don't know what slip he was talking about. I'll have to look into that at some point.
Honestly I think both debears's and my own points against you are far more solid, but you've avoided answering my questions for a while now. You have some catching up to do if you want to convince me.
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@Rad
I'm focused on Inig for his total lack of scumhunting and his weird attempt to gain town cred.
Could you sum up for me the main questions I have to answer to ? I'll try my best to answer them.
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EPT
