|
On October 26 2012 08:07 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 07:54 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 02:26 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 02:23 Djodref wrote:
I have to go to bed so I'm not going to be able to see the case against me. Sorry, Alsn...
@dandel
I understand your stance about policy lynch. I guess it's just that we have different experience from our previous games. I liked your explanations but I'm not going to change my mind about it. Moreover, if we have to go for a policy lynch today, I would prefer to lynch a lurker like Inig (semi-lurker) than a complete lurker. Could you please expand upon this? @ClarityI was talking with Dandel about policy lynch, especially the fact that you have to agree early about it or not. I don't think it's good to establish a policy early and I'm not going to change my mind, even if dandel has good arguments for it. Why did you pick on this sentence ? As you can see I basically insta-posted this response when you made your post. Reason being it's a bit wishy-washy. "I agree with you but I'm not gonna change my mind" It doesn't add up
dandel has a stance about policy lynching and I have another one. We both have arguments to support our stances, his are good and mine are good (I would say that they are better). I guess it's our different experience which is really defining our opinion about it.
|
On October 26 2012 07:42 Inigmaticalism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 04:11 Dandel Ion wrote:On October 26 2012 03:42 Inigmaticalism wrote:
As for everyone else I need to read their posts again. It seems my scum-hunting has so far resulted in town-finding, but thats how its gone. What scumhunting exactly? I didn't ever see you do something that would qualify as such. Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote:
To be devils advocate for a second, I imagine he means he's scouring the comments intently.
Whereas your definition of scumhunting is probably closer to "actively engage with people to make them mess up"" Thanks clarity. Show nested quote +Also, I deliberately dodged sylvers question about what your favorite role is to play to show I was town(which, ironically because he was role hunting, still answered his question). I would never have posted such an awkward response I was mafia, I would have simply ignored the question all together, but it seems no one took it that way.
Pure WIFOM.
You said you wouldn't do it as scum, but if you are scum, you could do it, point at it, and say "I'd never do this as scum".
It's impossible to get a read on your original answer, but the INSTANT you try to argue with "I'd never do this as scum"-WIFOM shit, it gets me riled up.
Don't do that. It doesn't make you look good. Oh ok. Guess Ill not try to make myself look like a townie in the thread. Might get mistaken as WIFOM. So then what would be a wifom defense vs a non wifom defense? You can argue anything that way a long as you dont like it. I find just about every argument/case presented so far to be stupid and pointless. To be straight up, this first day/night cycle Im not going to contribute that much. I thought I had much more time when I signed up and then RL got stupid busy out of nowhere. My time will free up much more starting around Sunday-Monday, and then Ill be able to give the amount of time Ive wanted to give. If you dont like it, tough, but I dont like it either and Im quite frustrated about it. Whine about it if you want, but it is what it is.
@Inig
Could you at least tell us who you would like to lynch right now if you had to and add a quick reason to back up your answer ?
On a side note, as soon as you are using arguments like "mafia would do that" or "mafia would not do that", you are using WIFOM, and it is bad and produce weak arguments.
|
On October 26 2012 08:13 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:07 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 07:54 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 02:26 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 02:23 Djodref wrote:
I have to go to bed so I'm not going to be able to see the case against me. Sorry, Alsn...
@dandel
I understand your stance about policy lynch. I guess it's just that we have different experience from our previous games. I liked your explanations but I'm not going to change my mind about it. Moreover, if we have to go for a policy lynch today, I would prefer to lynch a lurker like Inig (semi-lurker) than a complete lurker. Could you please expand upon this? @ClarityI was talking with Dandel about policy lynch, especially the fact that you have to agree early about it or not. I don't think it's good to establish a policy early and I'm not going to change my mind, even if dandel has good arguments for it. Why did you pick on this sentence ? As you can see I basically insta-posted this response when you made your post. Reason being it's a bit wishy-washy. "I agree with you but I'm not gonna change my mind" It doesn't add up dandel has a stance about policy lynching and I have another one. We both have arguments to support our stances, his are good and mine are good (I would say that they are better). I guess it's our different experience which is really defining our opinion about it.
I can't think of any good reason a townie would have to be completely unopen to changing their opinion on something regardless of the arguments presented. Worst case scenario for a townie is you're just not convinced by the argument so you keep your original opinion, then someone's not happy that they couldn't convince you.
Seems like a scummy stance. The scummy reasoning would go something like "I need to be consistent, and if someone changes my opinion on something, I'll look inconsistent, so I'm going to just make it clear that I'm not going to change my mind on this so it's dropped."
That's what you sound like with that statement djo.
|
On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).
The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.
So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.
I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then.
@Alsn
I would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me 
What do you think about Inig ?
|
On October 26 2012 08:22 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:13 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 08:07 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 07:54 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 02:26 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 02:23 Djodref wrote:
I have to go to bed so I'm not going to be able to see the case against me. Sorry, Alsn...
@dandel
I understand your stance about policy lynch. I guess it's just that we have different experience from our previous games. I liked your explanations but I'm not going to change my mind about it. Moreover, if we have to go for a policy lynch today, I would prefer to lynch a lurker like Inig (semi-lurker) than a complete lurker. Could you please expand upon this? @ClarityI was talking with Dandel about policy lynch, especially the fact that you have to agree early about it or not. I don't think it's good to establish a policy early and I'm not going to change my mind, even if dandel has good arguments for it. Why did you pick on this sentence ? As you can see I basically insta-posted this response when you made your post. Reason being it's a bit wishy-washy. "I agree with you but I'm not gonna change my mind" It doesn't add up dandel has a stance about policy lynching and I have another one. We both have arguments to support our stances, his are good and mine are good (I would say that they are better). I guess it's our different experience which is really defining our opinion about it. I can't think of any good reason a townie would have to be completely unopen to changing their opinion on something regardless of the arguments presented. Worst case scenario for a townie is you're just not convinced by the argument so you keep your original opinion, then someone's not happy that they couldn't convince you. Seems like a scummy stance. The scummy reasoning would go something like "I need to be consistent, and if someone changes my opinion on something, I'll look inconsistent, so I'm going to just make it clear that I'm not going to change my mind on this so it's dropped." That's what you sound like with that statement djo.
@Rad
I don't care, it's an argument about policy lynch. I don't even understand why you are putting such an interest in this. I'm not saying that I'm not going to change my mind about a player or a lynch or something important...
What do you think about Inig's posts by the way ?
|
Right now I dont have any scum reads, only town reads which Ive already said in earlier posts. So I would lynch one of the lurkers probably. Also, Djo you seem to be the only one really going after me, so while your asking everyone what they think of me, you should answer your own question. what you you think of me?
-Should be back to post something in around 6-7 hours.
|
On October 26 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:22 Rad wrote:On October 26 2012 08:13 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 08:07 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 07:54 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 02:26 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 02:23 Djodref wrote:
I have to go to bed so I'm not going to be able to see the case against me. Sorry, Alsn...
@dandel
I understand your stance about policy lynch. I guess it's just that we have different experience from our previous games. I liked your explanations but I'm not going to change my mind about it. Moreover, if we have to go for a policy lynch today, I would prefer to lynch a lurker like Inig (semi-lurker) than a complete lurker. Could you please expand upon this? @ClarityI was talking with Dandel about policy lynch, especially the fact that you have to agree early about it or not. I don't think it's good to establish a policy early and I'm not going to change my mind, even if dandel has good arguments for it. Why did you pick on this sentence ? As you can see I basically insta-posted this response when you made your post. Reason being it's a bit wishy-washy. "I agree with you but I'm not gonna change my mind" It doesn't add up dandel has a stance about policy lynching and I have another one. We both have arguments to support our stances, his are good and mine are good (I would say that they are better). I guess it's our different experience which is really defining our opinion about it. I can't think of any good reason a townie would have to be completely unopen to changing their opinion on something regardless of the arguments presented. Worst case scenario for a townie is you're just not convinced by the argument so you keep your original opinion, then someone's not happy that they couldn't convince you. Seems like a scummy stance. The scummy reasoning would go something like "I need to be consistent, and if someone changes my opinion on something, I'll look inconsistent, so I'm going to just make it clear that I'm not going to change my mind on this so it's dropped." That's what you sound like with that statement djo. @RadI don't care, it's an argument about policy lynch. I don't even understand why you are putting such an interest in this. I'm not saying that I'm not going to change my mind about a player or a lynch or something important... What do you think about Inig's posts by the way ?
You said "I won't change my opinion." I pointed out that I can't think of any good reason a townie would be opposed to changing their opinion if an argument is good. It sounds like a scummy sort of move, for the reasons I laid out. That's why I have an interest in it, because if you're a townie it doesn't add up, thus you come across as scum. I'm completely open to some reasonable argument for why a townie would ever have that sort of mind set.
I don't know why you're so interested in getting people's opinions on inig's post. It seems like you're just trying to divert attention. I would prefer that you finalized a subject before jumping to the next, otherwise it seems like dodging.
Regardless, I'll answer your question. I don't like that he won't have much time until sunday-monday. That's a lot of lurking and I don't feel comfortable with it. I feel like it puts him on the list of people to be suspicious about, but not currently something I'm too concerned about. If it comes down to it and we decide to policy lynch, he'd be on the list if he stays mostly inactive. I do not get a scum or town read from him yet, he's pretty neutral to me at the moment.
|
On October 26 2012 07:42 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Oh ok. Guess Ill not try to make myself look like a townie in the thread. Might get mistaken as WIFOM.
So then what would be a wifom defense vs a non wifom defense? You can argue anything that way a long as you dont like it. I find just about every argument/case presented so far to be stupid and pointless.
I'm not sure how to comprehend this answer. Inig is obviously very distressed, as he's discrediting everything by calling it blatantly "stupid and pointless". Either he doesn't know how to form a coherent response to an accusation or is cracking under pressure.
I don't like the response at all. With him going afk after this, I'm beginning to get suspicious of him.
|
On October 26 2012 08:34 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Right now I dont have any scum reads, only town reads which Ive already said in earlier posts. So I would lynch one of the lurkers probably. Also, Djo you seem to be the only one really going after me, so while your asking everyone what they think of me, you should answer your own question. what you you think of me?
-Should be back to post something in around 6-7 hours.
I have already my eyes on you and I think that your posts lack content and scumhunting. You are my top scumread right now.
Let's assume that the lurkers are going to get modkill today, who would you like to lynch ?
Vote-pressuring you
## Vote Inig
|
On October 26 2012 08:43 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 08:22 Rad wrote:On October 26 2012 08:13 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 08:07 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 07:54 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 02:26 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 02:23 Djodref wrote:
I have to go to bed so I'm not going to be able to see the case against me. Sorry, Alsn...
@dandel
I understand your stance about policy lynch. I guess it's just that we have different experience from our previous games. I liked your explanations but I'm not going to change my mind about it. Moreover, if we have to go for a policy lynch today, I would prefer to lynch a lurker like Inig (semi-lurker) than a complete lurker. Could you please expand upon this? @ClarityI was talking with Dandel about policy lynch, especially the fact that you have to agree early about it or not. I don't think it's good to establish a policy early and I'm not going to change my mind, even if dandel has good arguments for it. Why did you pick on this sentence ? As you can see I basically insta-posted this response when you made your post. Reason being it's a bit wishy-washy. "I agree with you but I'm not gonna change my mind" It doesn't add up dandel has a stance about policy lynching and I have another one. We both have arguments to support our stances, his are good and mine are good (I would say that they are better). I guess it's our different experience which is really defining our opinion about it. I can't think of any good reason a townie would have to be completely unopen to changing their opinion on something regardless of the arguments presented. Worst case scenario for a townie is you're just not convinced by the argument so you keep your original opinion, then someone's not happy that they couldn't convince you. Seems like a scummy stance. The scummy reasoning would go something like "I need to be consistent, and if someone changes my opinion on something, I'll look inconsistent, so I'm going to just make it clear that I'm not going to change my mind on this so it's dropped." That's what you sound like with that statement djo. @RadI don't care, it's an argument about policy lynch. I don't even understand why you are putting such an interest in this. I'm not saying that I'm not going to change my mind about a player or a lynch or something important... What do you think about Inig's posts by the way ? You said "I won't change my opinion." I pointed out that I can't think of any good reason a townie would be opposed to changing their opinion if an argument is good. It sounds like a scummy sort of move, for the reasons I laid out. That's why I have an interest in it, because if you're a townie it doesn't add up, thus you come across as scum. I'm completely open to some reasonable argument for why a townie would ever have that sort of mind set. I don't know why you're so interested in getting people's opinions on inig's post. It seems like you're just trying to divert attention. I would prefer that you finalized a subject before jumping to the next, otherwise it seems like dodging. Regardless, I'll answer your question. I don't like that he won't have much time until sunday-monday. That's a lot of lurking and I don't feel comfortable with it. I feel like it puts him on the list of people to be suspicious about, but not currently something I'm too concerned about. If it comes down to it and we decide to policy lynch, he'd be on the list if he stays mostly inactive. I do not get a scum or town read from him yet, he's pretty neutral to me at the moment.
From what exactly am I trying to divert attention ?
|
@Rad
by the way,
His argument is good by my argument is better. Not going to change my mind.
Are you satisfied ?
|
On October 26 2012 08:34 Inigmaticalism wrote:
Right now I dont have any scum reads, only town reads which Ive already said in earlier posts. So I would lynch one of the lurkers probably. Also, Djo you seem to be the only one really going after me, so while your asking everyone what they think of me, you should answer your own question. what you you think of me?
-Should be back to post something in around 6-7 hours.
Seriously, if Inig is town, this kind of post shows exactly why agreeing early on policy lynching a lurker is a bad thing for town. He has no scumread but he doesn't look like he has done any effort to have one so far.
Why so ? Because it is much more confortable to say "I have only townie reads, I'll prolly lynch a lurker".
|
On October 26 2012 09:20 Djodref wrote:
From what exactly am I trying to divert attention ?
On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:
My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such).
The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you.
So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref.
I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then. @AlsnI would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me What do you think about Inig ?
You get FoS'd, and then try to discredit it just by claiming it's half-assed instead of mounting an argument against it. That's either scummy play, or useless townie play. You pick.
Then, without being of any use to town, you divert attention to Inig.
On October 26 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:22 Rad wrote:On October 26 2012 08:13 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 08:07 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 07:54 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 02:26 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 26 2012 02:23 Djodref wrote:
I have to go to bed so I'm not going to be able to see the case against me. Sorry, Alsn...
@dandel
I understand your stance about policy lynch. I guess it's just that we have different experience from our previous games. I liked your explanations but I'm not going to change my mind about it. Moreover, if we have to go for a policy lynch today, I would prefer to lynch a lurker like Inig (semi-lurker) than a complete lurker. Could you please expand upon this? @ClarityI was talking with Dandel about policy lynch, especially the fact that you have to agree early about it or not. I don't think it's good to establish a policy early and I'm not going to change my mind, even if dandel has good arguments for it. Why did you pick on this sentence ? As you can see I basically insta-posted this response when you made your post. Reason being it's a bit wishy-washy. "I agree with you but I'm not gonna change my mind" It doesn't add up dandel has a stance about policy lynching and I have another one. We both have arguments to support our stances, his are good and mine are good (I would say that they are better). I guess it's our different experience which is really defining our opinion about it. I can't think of any good reason a townie would have to be completely unopen to changing their opinion on something regardless of the arguments presented. Worst case scenario for a townie is you're just not convinced by the argument so you keep your original opinion, then someone's not happy that they couldn't convince you. Seems like a scummy stance. The scummy reasoning would go something like "I need to be consistent, and if someone changes my opinion on something, I'll look inconsistent, so I'm going to just make it clear that I'm not going to change my mind on this so it's dropped." That's what you sound like with that statement djo. @RadI don't care, it's an argument about policy lynch. I don't even understand why you are putting such an interest in this. I'm not saying that I'm not going to change my mind about a player or a lynch or something important... What do you think about Inig's posts by the way ?
"I don't care" isn't a good argument. It's either a scummy response, or again, a useless townie response. You don't respond directly to my concerns (if you were town, you should want to clarify things for other town members), but instead, divert to Inig.
Not looking good Djo.
|
On October 26 2012 09:23 Djodref wrote:
@Rad
by the way,
His argument is good by my argument is better. Not going to change my mind.
Are you satisfied ?
It doesn't matter how you want to word it now. What matters is your statement from before and the fact that it wouldn't make any sense coming from a townie. As I've already pointed out, the floor is open to you to make some sense of it and clear this up.
|
@Rad
I know Alsn town's play and I find him not fitting his meta. I intend to get some strong response to my post. I'm provoking him on purpose.
Regarding your concerns about me not changing my mind, have they been addressed or not ?
|
On October 26 2012 09:45 Djodref wrote:
@Rad
I know Alsn town's play and I find him not fitting his meta. I intend to get some strong response to my post. I'm provoking him on purpose.
Regarding your concerns about me not changing my mind, have they been addressed or not ?
Wait why are you talking about Alsn now?
|
@Djodref
No they haven't been addressed. Please see my concerns:
On October 26 2012 08:22 Rad wrote:
I can't think of any good reason a townie would have to be completely unopen to changing their opinion on something regardless of the arguments presented. Worst case scenario for a townie is you're just not convinced by the argument so you keep your original opinion, then someone's not happy that they couldn't convince you.
Seems like a scummy stance. The scummy reasoning would go something like "I need to be consistent, and if someone changes my opinion on something, I'll look inconsistent, so I'm going to just make it clear that I'm not going to change my mind on this so it's dropped."
That's what you sound like with that statement djo.
And the restating of my concerns:
On October 26 2012 08:43 Rad wrote:
You said "I won't change my opinion." I pointed out that I can't think of any good reason a townie would be opposed to changing their opinion if an argument is good. It sounds like a scummy sort of move, for the reasons I laid out. That's why I have an interest in it, because if you're a townie it doesn't add up, thus you come across as scum. I'm completely open to some reasonable argument for why a townie would ever have that sort of mind set.
|
On October 26 2012 09:49 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 09:45 Djodref wrote:
@Rad
I know Alsn town's play and I find him not fitting his meta. I intend to get some strong response to my post. I'm provoking him on purpose.
Regarding your concerns about me not changing my mind, have they been addressed or not ? Wait why are you talking about Alsn now?
He's responding to my post 2 above his where I quoted Alsn and his response to Alsn.
|
On October 26 2012 09:45 Djodref wrote:
@Rad
I know Alsn town's play and I find him not fitting his meta. I intend to get some strong response to my post. I'm provoking him on purpose.
The more useful move there, for town, is to clear your name by shutting down his FoS. Shrugging it off as half-assed doesn't do that. If anything, it looks like you had no defense, which makes you look worse. We have a claim from Alsn, and nothing from you. Why would anyone want to side with you if you have no defense? If you're town, help the rest of town out by confronting the issue rather than trying out some secretive trap that only makes sense to you.
|
On October 26 2012 09:23 Djodref wrote:
@Rad
by the way,
His argument is good but my argument is better. Not going to change my mind.
Are you satisfied ?
@Rad
What did you not understand in this post ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
