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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
On August 22 2012 11:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: How is dirk helping? I would like a detailed response on that. I will agree that hopeless is likely scum at this point though. Well I mean he's posting cases and defending himself and contributing. I don't know why he was the closest to being lynched. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On August 22 2012 11:39 grush57 wrote: Well I mean he's posting cases and defending himself and contributing. I don't know why he was the closest to being lynched. Did you read the bits of analysis on him? Notice the lack of original content, outright lying on facts, etc.... He is posting but he is primarily parroting others or posting useless blocks of text. Obviously that is my point of view but given the two days you couldn't post I would expect far more indepth information out of you then what you have done so far. I do appreciate you diving back into the game instantly but detailed information is going to be needed or it will be assumed you just don't care about solid contributions to the game. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On August 22 2012 03:14 Misder wrote: On VE: + Show Spoiler + On August 21 2012 17:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Hilariously, you're simply adding your vote to a preexisting wagon without adding anything new yourself as well. At any rate, a VE lynch isn't happening today so I suggest you try and hide your vote elsewhere. On August 21 2012 19:44 VisceraEyes wrote: So should I go ahead and claim now? Or what...because typically when I reach this point it's pretty much GG for me. Dirkzor is scum because he keeps sheeping you SnB, while trying to pass that off as contribution. He hasn't added anything of substance to the game, and while Bugs says that I've done nothing of significance, I'd argue that my attempt at policy-lynching grush counts as a significant thread action. I agree with the case on Drazerk now that you've deWIFOM'd it - when I read it through the first time, it looked like I was reading a Pokemon card-creator's journal...it didn't look like a case at all. But I get what you were saying now and I agree that he looks scummy for it. There’s a disconnect here. VE’s initial defense against Dirkzor’s vote is basically, there’s no possible way I’m getting lynched, but couple posts later of back and forth with Dirkzor, he claims he should give up. It seems like because he couldn’t get Dirkzor off his back, he goes for the rage tactic. I also However, this is the only thing that really bothers me from VE. The reasons why people are voting VE are pretty sketch. Pushing for a policy lynch against someone who cannot defend himself is anti-town, but the way that VE is convinced that it is a good move convinces me that he’s not scum. And + Show Spoiler + On August 21 2012 16:50 strongandbig wrote: Oh and I just saw this little gem while I was reading the thread: "Hey guys! You're not paying all that much attention yet to this anti-town thing I did so it's a good time for me to bring up that I know it's anti-town and I was fishing for reactions! Oh but also I still support the anti-town thing but it's actually pro-town now, so don't go accusing me of changing my position!" ##unvote: Drazerk ##vote: VE vote is a tool man Also, at least he’s being more useful (zeph case, activity) than some other people. I’m not convinced that VE is scum. I find this a bit more interesting (not really on VE): + Show Spoiler + On August 21 2012 06:19 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm actually down with policy-lynching grush. This is 100% super serious. JingleHell also wanted to lynch grush. However, he never actually voted for him and once VE got all this flak about policy lynching, he doesn’t back VE up nor say anything about it ever again. He then switches votes on imallinson. I don’t like this at all. FOS: JingleHell On imallinson: I do agree with the original case that imallinson’s first couple posts are meh at best + Show Spoiler [WBG’s case] + On August 21 2012 09:30 wherebugsgo wrote: yeah Mattchew, I don't have as much time as I normally do. I'm going to try not to rage if something retarded happens (like in BC's game) but I'm also hosting AoK mafia which is taking quite a lot more time than expected. I don't like imallinson and I would be fine with lynching him today. If you all would kindly take a glance at his posts, in most of them he fails to take a strong opinion and defers his own stances to the opinions of others. For example: The only real thing he's contributed is that he thinks people aren't thinking "outside of the box" enough with respect to roles (about the multiple power thing). However, that has nothing to do with finding scum and he himself admits its pretty much not of any help: So if it's not going to be helpful why is he spending his time pointing that out instead of trying to find scum? In addition, note his vague language, his meek attitude, and his overall "hide and say a few noncontroversial things and hope no one notices me" style. All of these things are great ways for scum to blend in. ##vote imallinson + Show Spoiler + On August 21 2012 22:19 imallinson wrote: The other thing I noticed about what Dirk said about my previous games is that he seems to agree fairly strongly with my being scum, even adding his own argument against me (the meta stuff) but doesn't actually back it up with a vote. This looks a lot like someone trying to push the vote onto an easy target but not actually committing to it himself. And this post I like as well. Defending VE I also see as a towntell cause even though he’s being attacked, he’s aware of what’s happening around him and reacting. On Dirkzor: I find that he’s very defensive when attacked by both BC and VE + Show Spoiler + On August 21 2012 16:26 Dirkzor wrote: A "say nothing post"? I basicly had the samw worries that S&B did in his big case against Drazerk. My post was just completely crap at explaining my problem with drazerk since it was all hunches and feelings. The way I entered was just a punch towards those entering with a town claim which is basicly useless and imo a complete stupid way to enter a thread. While I agree that Drazerk was the biggest focus point during the first part of D1, the solar beam thingy wasn't mentioned in the 2-3 pages before I posted so I brought it up again because it was the only thing worth mentioning. On August 21 2012 17:39 Dirkzor wrote: Hey VE!? Why all of a sudden do you think people should vote me? You have made no mention of this earlier... Perfect time to take pressure off of yourself by adding another subject for scrutiny. A subject with already some focus from BC. If you find me scummy post why! Don't throw a ball up in the air for some townie to catch and throw. Thats what scummy people do... Same thing can be said about your Drazerk turn around. S&B added nothing new to the case but now its a good case whereas before is was bad? Haha. Its the biggest cop-out ever. And I don't want to wait for you to show that you want to find scum. I want you to try and find scum now. And you haven't. Not just a little? ##Vote VE Even though it could have been an honest mistake that Dirkzor really did read the wrong guy, that doesn’t make him town. I would say that he just hastily put that up just to gain some towncred by using meta, which half the time doesn’t even work anyways (which I’m sure he realizes if he actually was town/putting a real case on allinson). I would rather see Dirkzor get lynched over allinson. ##Vote: Dirkzor On the rest: Or we can just get rid of Drazerk. He’s literally just spamming. Either he’s a crazy town trying to draw reactions or he’s scum trying to cause chaos. I choose the latter. The meowth day-vig hit is interesting cause it was on VE. Don’t think there’s much to say though, as it could have easily come from town as scum. And I haven’t forgotten about the four people that entered breadcrumbing blue, though that will have to wait til next time. It’s most likely either Kenpachi or Mattchew though. Kurumi, I don’t think you answered this yet: | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Further thoughts pending reread. | ||
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
On August 22 2012 11:49 VisceraEyes wrote: I guess no one is still considering seriously Wiggles scum right? Cause...I think he scum. *snap snap snap* Further thoughts pending reread. Hmm, I was pondering it myself. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On August 22 2012 11:49 VisceraEyes wrote: I guess no one is still considering seriously Wiggles scum right? Cause...I think he scum. *snap snap snap* Further thoughts pending reread. i agree | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
So, since the thread is dead on scumhunting, is anyone up for discussing role creation? On August 22 2012 01:58 deconduo wrote: Yes, as soon as one Pokemon has been killed and flipped. Diglett killed and flipped, so free game right? I will note the following: On August 21 2012 07:48 Drazerk wrote: To the above plan I made a role that kinda hard brakes claiming what we made roles for so lets never ever do that. So...until Drazerk is willing to explain wtf he did, I'm guessing we do nothing other than debate the merits of "knowing" what's out there. Note I am NOT ADVOCATING ROLE CLAIMS. I'm saying that if we are to do anything, it would be say something like "I picked for pokemon and gave it such and such ability(ies)" I don't necessarily know what I would do with this information, but as long as we don't get too caught up in role discussions, I think town is better off with as much info as we can generate. Again - Drazerk has said doing this will break the game somehow, so please do not actually reveal anything until he has responded. Aside from that, my strongest read is Zephirdd, and not just for his vote against me. If need be I'll get that together sooner, but it looks like I should save it for the deadline. And yes, I've skipped the part where I throw out a shitty defense for my ninja vote. My play was poor and I am deservedly under suspicion for it. Being legitimately active is going to go much further in changing people's opinions of me than trying to defend myself right now. I'll be around for a half hour or so before bed. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On August 22 2012 14:03 Hopeless1der wrote: Being legitimately active is going to go much further in changing people's opinions of me than trying to defend myself right now. I think this is more true than you know. What do you think about Wiggles? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
I'm not really in any position to be commenting on activity, but the fact that he didn't change his vote off you looks scummy as well. It was clearly not doing a goddamn thing where it was. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
It took a lot of arguments to get this role into the game but there is only one way around the power that I can't divulge but should be obvious if it is triggered however those already effected won't be able to do anything about it sadly I have been trying to hint this already but I really doubt people cared enough to look | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On August 22 2012 07:20 Toadesstern wrote: Why do you want that? More importantly why do you want to know this during the nightphase? What information would you gain from knowing meowth's full role other than "dude shot someone d1" ? Would it somehow help figure out mafia? Would it somehow help figure out who's really likely town? Would it somehow help figure out who to shoot / protect / DT / whatever else you got tonight? I honestly don't think any of those questions would be answered with a yes, yet you asked for role-information rather than who meowth is. I just can't see a motivation in the question you just asked that is NOT mafiaagenda. At all. Sad thing I bluffed with my KP power earlier the day, or did I ? I'd probably shoot you right now lol I wanted it now because people are going to die during the nightphase; it's entirely possible that the creator of meowth will be shot. The point is that it gives us information on a role that scum likely has and it prevents that person from making a fakeclaim with whatever their other abilities are. I didnt really consider the possibilities that Drazerk did for not claiming and the role that says he's made makes anything like that pointless anyway. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
Didn't you just make yourself vulnerable to the VT laser though? I think you are both high scum likelihood and also terrible so I for one would argue that if the person with the VT laser is town, they should use it on you. Actually let's talk about the "terrible" part. You consistently say that you need to be vigged before lylo because you're not willing to play in a way that establishes your innocence and helps town. Why should you not be vigged tonight instead of later in the game? What do you bring to town that's helpful now but not helpful later? Also I want to mention that this is by far the most constructive play I've seen out of grush. It's like he's actually engaging with the thread or something, I like it! | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
- First, his filter is tiny. I would expect a semi-vet to be more involved. (I use semi-vet as a catchall for anyone more experienced than me, idk if wiggles actually counts as a veteran in the toad/ve/BC sense.) On August 20 2012 10:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Too bad he's banned. I always hate when people throw around the word "confirmed". I think I'm going to promote policy lynches on those people in the future.  Also, I don't think we should reveal too much at this point in the game. Even something as simple as trying to tell someone your pokemon type can be disastrous. Say someone can do 0.5 KP in damage, but they're a fire type and know you're a grass type. Now they can just kill you if they want, instead of only damage you, because it will be super-effective. So, I'm going to say that if you're smart, it's a god idea to not breadcrumb things about your role/pokemon/type. First, it does nothing to support your claim later, and second, it can give scum an advantage against you. This isn't to say don't crumb things like checks, just things related to flavour or role abilities, because it will only hurt. It doesn't help in normal games, and with these mechanics, it will cause harm. Wiggles posted a lot during the early speculation phase. He seemed especially focused on the whole "entering the thread by claiming you're town" question. But he never really came back to it later on, or explained why it was important to the thread or how it helped find scum. But here's what I re-e-eally don't like. On August 21 2012 16:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote: ##Vote: VE I'm putting my vote on you until you can show me you care about killing scum or I find a better lynch target. @Draz: If you could single-handedly choose the lynch right now (choose a player to kill), who would it be, and why? Please give me your reasoning for who you chose. Wiggles expressly put his vote on VE as a pressure vote. He said his vote would be on VE until VE started scumhunting or until a better target showed up. Now, I also thought VE was scum. I still think he might be scum. But the thing is, he actually started scumhunting later on in the thread. Whether or not you think it was genuine scumhunting is the important question to figure out VE's alignment. But that's not the point Wiggles was making. He never posted again about VE's scumhunting attempts, or about the other potential lynch targets. Moreover, we know he was in the thread at least twice after that - after the Meowth shot, arguing that the shooter should claim it, and an hour or two after that to push his question at Drazerk. However, he leaves his vote on VE, without any comments about the change in VE's behavior or about the two main lynch candidates we had - who I would argue were, at that point, both "better lynch targets" in that they actually both had a chance to be lynched. If wiggles thought either of them was more townie than the other, his responsibility as a townie would have been to tell us and use his vote on the scummier one. Keeping his vote on VE without explaining it in the context of VE's later actions, and not commenting on the actual lynch candidates even though he was actually in the thread posting, makes me think Wiggles may be scum. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On August 22 2012 07:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On its own? No but it just adds into the list of bad things you have done. You at the time of your vote weren't in a place to die and you stuck around almost till the time the vote ended. You said Yes being all nice and trying to make only two people to vote for is nice, except given the lack of discussion it lets people sheep like no other. You were practically not going to die and had a stronger read on someone else then who you voted and thus until it came down to just your vote, you should have attempted to either persuade people to vote for your main target or heavily analyze them / your other top reads. Near every action you have taken is really off. I also only think you are still "around" is because you are being heavily pushed at the moment and attempting to appear legit. Your whole argument with my own vote is void. Or course I'm going to increase my own chance of survival by voting the "other guy". And yes my vote mattered. With 6v10 it only neede 2-3 people to vote change for me to be dead. Of course I'm around towards deadline when I'm in focus.. Had the discussion been heavier I had most likely not went to bed even though I need the sleep. But the discussion WAS dead so i went to bed. I've looked through filters and it feels like many people aren't really doing anything really. The worst however is Mattchew: + Show Spoiler + On August 21 2012 08:50 Mattchew wrote: cause you haven't sunk your teeth into a real candidate with reason yet, you haven't picked a fight, you also havent explained why you havent done the previously mentioned things. you usually do atleast 1 of these things as town On August 21 2012 09:06 Mattchew wrote: I'd like a more informed read to lynch off of and I agree that SnB's case is weak, but I still have a scum read on Draz. He is back peddling and clearly nervous while trying to act like he's been cool calm and collected the entire game. You also haven't voted a weak read early (to provoke reaction) and said my vote is my tool or w.e you say, so I wouldn't be completely against lynching you currently On August 22 2012 01:10 Mattchew wrote: I think this and your post on Zeph are your most substantive post in the game thus far and makes me want to lynch you less. However another problem with your play to me is you haven't tried to confirm any other "vet" as town to work with. You know that you and bugs/bc/toad/whoever could really become a benefit to town yet you refuse to work with just about anyone. He starts out by poking VE lightly. Not really committing to anything pulling back a bit when VE started posting more. The last quote he calls VE's post substantial when i really wasn't. The zephirdd case is, but the post quoted isn't but mattchew finds it as an excuse to pull back. He have a few filler posts that does absolutely nothing: 1 and 2. But the scum alert only goes of with these 2 posts: On August 22 2012 01:13 Mattchew wrote: ##vote dirkzor I like this wagon He puts his vote on me with no explanation or prior mention of me. Before this only Draz and VE have been mentioned as potential scum. Seems like he just figured VE wasn't scum anyway and then voted me. Shows he doesn't care one bit who actually died. Again he just follows and sheep VE without any reason what so ever. Again its seems like he just want someone dead without really thinking further then if the person is his red team mate. And thats basicly all he have done this entire game. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On August 22 2012 15:07 HiroPro wrote: I wanted it now because people are going to die during the nightphase; it's entirely possible that the creator of meowth will be shot. The point is that it gives us information on a role that scum likely has and it prevents that person from making a fakeclaim with whatever their other abilities are. I didnt really consider the possibilities that Drazerk did for not claiming and the role that says he's made makes anything like that pointless anyway. The creator of a role is not allowed to talk about it until the role has flipped according to a mod-statement. Are you trying to get someone mod-killed? Why is it a role scum likely has? There has been a lot of talk about Meowth so far. Just picture him being some crazy shit like dayvig + bulletproof. Noone in their right mind would claim something like that because it would help mafia. Besides: I shot our lovely hosts a PM and I'm totally not going to talk about what a host told me or publish a host-pm but I guess asking the right question might shed some light on some things like: a) Meowth b) VE That being said. I like both VE and Meowth right now, which may sound quite strange but I doubt any of those two is actually mafia although one shot the other. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 22 2012 20:56 Toadesstern wrote: The creator of a role is not allowed to talk about it until the role has flipped according to a mod-statement. Are you trying to get someone mod-killed? Why is it a role scum likely has? There has been a lot of talk about Meowth so far. Just picture him being some crazy shit like dayvig + bulletproof. Noone in their right mind would claim something like that because it would help mafia. Besides: I shot our lovely hosts a PM and I'm totally not going to talk about what a host told me or publish a host-pm but I guess asking the right question might shed some light on some things like: a) Meowth b) VE That being said. I like both VE and Meowth right now, which may sound quite strange but I doubt any of those two is actually mafia although one shot the other. I interpreted that as "you can talk about the role you made once any role has flipped" not "you can only talk about the role you made after that specific role has flipped" | ||
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