i wish blizzard would get on the hack issue a lil bit more... Its an age old thing in blizzard games o.o
[?] Spades hacking? - Page 34
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
BreakfastBurrito
United States893 Posts
i wish blizzard would get on the hack issue a lil bit more... Its an age old thing in blizzard games o.o | ||
Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:12 Ebzy wrote: He said he was having mouse issues, however if thats an excuse or not I'm not sure.. ps : Catz please stream analysis While that would be cool, you just have to know this will end up on Sotg. | ||
zefreak
United States2731 Posts
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Artok
Netherlands2219 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:13 tsuxiit wrote: Well (and this is, again, purely hypothetical), the fact that he has performed somewhat decently at several LANs would not mean that he doesn't hack. Any sort-of skilled high masters player with confidence can take games off a pro, even if you can't do it consistently or without having a crutch to lean on in practice or online tournaments that makes you intimidating. And while his performances were decent, they weren't really 70% winrate good; he's always played his best at home. 1.are you insane? youre comparing nerchio to high masters? 2.its like that for most of the people, nerves exist, sorry to disappoint you, but progamers arent robots. | ||
Artok
Netherlands2219 Posts
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legaton
France1763 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
JJH777
United States4372 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:13 tsuxiit wrote: Well (and this is, again, purely hypothetical), the fact that he has performed somewhat decently at several LANs would not mean that he doesn't hack. Any sort-of skilled high masters player with confidence can take games off a pro, even if you can't do it consistently or without having a crutch to lean on in practice or online tournaments that makes you intimidating. And while his performances were decent, they weren't really 70% winrate good; he's always played his best at home. I also remember that when IdrA forfeited against him in that random daily tournament he justified it by saying that he doesn't like playing Nerchio online. | ||
Riff-
Canada39 Posts
-2 cents | ||
MayorITC
Korea (South)798 Posts
If I remember right, Spades never admitted to hacking in SC1 either nor was there 100% conclusive proof, but there was enough proof to believe he hacked without reasonable doubt. In SC1, there were numerous replays of him indicating that he did not use a single hotkey at all (a common symptom from using the Oblivion hack), which is unheard of from a player at his level. Here you have a similar incident of Spades in a 10+ second camera lock, which is also unheard of from a player at his level. De ja vu. | ||
MuseMike
United States1339 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:14 Gladiator333 wrote: I remember in SC2gears you could see if a guy that was hacking if he's blink micro was legit or not. Isn't it possible to see the same sort of here but with camera lock perhaps or so? Probably not but cool to play around if there's anyway to be able to detect it there from. I'm too tired to do it myself. If Camera Lock has a default keybind and sc2gears can see all keybind presses this could be a possible way to see. That is assuming he did not change the default camera lock bind. | ||
Mohdoo
United States15286 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:13 yeastiality wrote: You sure are bitter about whatever you just posted about. It doesn't prove that he was hacking in the replays provided, though. You are killing esports, no joke~ He didn't say it was proof. He was simply elaborating on the fact that we really have absolutely no reason to take anything Spades said as truth. And he explained why by elaborating how it took *years* for Spades to admit his past hacking, something otherwise unheard of. And even that seemed only to help him transition into SC2. | ||
Apollo_Shards
1210 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:16 MayorITC wrote: Some of these counter-arguments are absurd. The player's post count doesn't matter. The OP provides a lot of evidence for his argument. If you're going to make make a rebuttal, criticize the evidence, not his post count. If I remember right, Spades never admitted to hacking in SC1 either nor was there 100% conclusive proof, but there was enough proof to believe he hacked without reasonable doubt. In SC1, there were numerous replays of him indicating that he did not use a single hotkey at all (a common symptom from using the Oblivion hack), which is unheard of from a player at his level. Here you have a similar incident of Spades in a 10+ second camera lock, which is also unheard of from a player at his level. De ja vu. To be fair a lot of the evidence I think has been inaccurate or not substantial enough to prove anything. | ||
kckkryptonite
1126 Posts
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Artok
Netherlands2219 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:16 MayorITC wrote: Some of these counter-arguments are absurd. The player's post count doesn't matter. The OP provides a lot of evidence for his argument. If you're going to make make a rebuttal, criticize the evidence, not his post count. If I remember right, Spades never admitted to hacking in SC1 either nor was there 100% conclusive proof, but there was enough proof to believe he hacked without reasonable doubt. In SC1, there were numerous replays of him indicating that he did not use a single hotkey at all (a common symptom from using the Oblivion hack), which is unheard of from a player at his level. Here you have a similar incident of Spades in a 10+ second camera lock, which is also unheard of from a player at his level. De ja vu. watch the replays, quite a few of those op arguments are total bullshit. | ||
divito
Canada1213 Posts
The problem with threads like these, and the enormous amount of complexity and variability of a game like SC2, is that it gives little definitive areas to conclusively say that one is cheating. There are many ways of completing the same action, whether through bindings, or mini-map, or what have you. Everyone has a different justification over why they would do something at what point; a lot of the "plays" under scrutiny are done so under the guise of one's own play style, and their bias/experience towards what should/could have been done. That's to say nothing of this specific instance other than, you have to approach it from the other side. A big problem also arises in cases like this, because as an admin, the opposing team (from CEVO, other leagues) submits notes on why they think someone is cheating; this forces one to look at these instances suspiciously, which negatively impacts what you're viewing. It will take multiple viewings (and the use of a cheat eventually), and a good understanding of the states of the game and the player's mindset through those multiple viewings, to actually establish whether anything is really suspicious or not. | ||
starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:19 divito wrote: Having been a head admin of CEVO (for anyone that may know of it) back when it was popular, going through a demo of a player and trying to ascertain suspicious areas of their play isn't a simple task. There are just some people that play "weird," glance at a TV in the room, and make really strange intuitive moves that completely put them under the microscope. The problem with threads like these, and the enormous amount of complexity and variability of a game like SC2, is that it gives little definitive areas to conclusively say that one is cheating. There are many ways of completing the same action, whether through bindings, or mini-map, or what have you. Everyone has a different justification over why they would do something at what point; a lot of the "plays" under scrutiny are done so under the guise of one's own play style, and their bias/experience towards what should/could have been done. That's to say nothing of this specific instance other than, you have to approach it from the other side. A big problem also arises in cases like this, because as an admin, the opposing team (from CEVO, other leagues) submits notes on why they think someone is cheating; this forces one to look at these instances suspiciously, which negatively impacts what you're viewing. It will take multiple viewings (and the use of a cheat eventually), and a good understanding of the states of the game and the player's mindset through those multiple viewings, to actually establish whether anything is really suspicious or not. I'd like to hear Spade's explanation for how he selected a unit far off his screen that WAS NOT hotkeyed. I understand that you can't prove or disprove someones 'weird' actions, but this action breaks the game mechanics. It's not a question of 'gut feelings' but rather someone using 3rd party software. I'm guessing that you didn't read the full transcript and then view the replay to compare between the OPs findings and your own interpretation. Had this just been a simple case of blind countering by spades i.e. not saving scans vs non-cloaked banshees I'd agree 100% with you that that proves nothing. You can't determine if someone is cheating based on them making perfect counters, however, breaking core game mechanics with a pattern that is consistent with known hacking methods is more than just suspicious, it's proof in the purest form. | ||
yeastiality
Canada374 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:16 MayorITC wrote: Some of these counter-arguments are absurd. The player's post count doesn't matter. The OP provides a lot of evidence for his argument. If you're going to make make a rebuttal, criticize the evidence, not his post count. When someone's career is on the line, you have to do better than "I think.." and "Couldn't it be..." The '1 post' thing indicates that either the person never posted on TL before, or was afraid to use their 'real' account because of potential blowback (indicating a lack of conviction). It's a very easy way to see that someone has an intellectually-dishonest agenda (and if you look a bit farther to the OP, constructed mostly of half-truths, that can be confirmed) There isn't real evidence to criticize, yet. If Catz or Incontrol want to stream some, I'll definitely watch and put 0.0002 cents in their pocket. | ||
mememolly
4765 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:18 kckkryptonite wrote: This is why being GM alone means nothing, I don't watch online-only tournaments because they have little credibility, and players who only play online aren't *pro*. agreed, online is nothing unless you force the players to stream to a private audience of admins or get them to record fpvod | ||
Naphal
Germany2099 Posts
Blizzard banwave hwaiting! not to say spades uses hacks or not, i do not know that. | ||
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