[Rant]/[D] Witch Hunting and 'eSports' - Page 51

On May 11 2012 12:48 lorkac wrote:


Isn't it obvious?

Someone got called a gook.

The community got upset.

He hated the community for disliking racism.

On May 11 2012 15:04 Dfgj wrote:

You really are dedicated to explaining how everyone else thinks, huh.

On May 11 2012 13:49 lorkac wrote:
My oversimplistic description of the events was not a serious commentary on the situation--it was mainly a jab at you to suggest that you were supportive of racism. Read it again in context as a response to the question quoted. It's a joke. No need to get so upset over a joke. Calm down fella.

On May 11 2012 15:11 DN.rSquar3d wrote:
That's why I kept citing McEnroe. He was consistent. He was destructive. He lashed out at opponents, officials, and fans. He destroyed equipment. He made feminist remarks. Yet he didn't, relatively speaking, get booted the same way that Destiny did (remember the relatively speaking remark).

Maybe Quantic didn't get the complains, because the community went around them and went to the sponsors directly. Maybe teams aren't so consistent (with EG being consistent about doling out punishments, such as in the case of IdrA) because there are no codified rules that apply to all leagues and teams in general.

That's why I'm saying we are expending our energies on a short-term solution; what's to stop other players and teams that haven't gotten our attention to do the same thing? The same problem will keep cropping up, with the same debate occurring over and over again, ad infinitum. This current way of things is a temporary, short-term and scary situation.

To make it clear, I don't condone the shit they did. I do agree that they should be punished. But not the way that the community takes everything into their own hands. Remember how Naniwa was punished by GOM for probe rushing? That was the kind of punishment, deliberated, decided on and doled out by the same professional body. Make that into an international regulatory body with a codified set of rules, and we can avoid these debates and have a final, long-term solution. The REAL solution.

On May 11 2012 15:24 lorkac wrote:


But that's exactly my point.

Complaints only go so far--the final decision for punishment is the teams and or the sponsors. If you disagree with the punishment, talk to the sponsors. Viewers whining only goes so far--in the end it is the owners/managers who make the final say. If you wish to enact change--don't yell at the viewers who will act however they want to act because they're viewers. Change and organization can only be started and maintained by the teams. It is the teams who should step up to the plate and actually manage their players.

Kespa was not made by a bunch of BW fans that thought "Oh wouldn't it be cool if I told players what to do." Kespa was made by the teams in order to better manage their players before stupid shit happens.

On May 11 2012 15:27 superstartran wrote:



Kespa succeeded because it ruled with an ironfist. The Western half of the Starcraft community is not ready or willing to make those sacrifices for numerous reasons; the main reason of course is sense of entitlement.

On May 11 2012 15:20 lorkac wrote:
Maybe if you weren't overly sensitive you'd be able to see that.

On May 11 2012 15:04 Dfgj wrote:

You really are dedicated to explaining how everyone else thinks, huh.

On May 11 2012 15:49 branflakes14 wrote:
Free speech can't end where feelings begin. Not only are you telling people how they should live, but it's completely impractical and impossible to enforce. If they aren't calling people niggers they could just as easily call them chuzzwozzers. Some people need to learn to be the bigger man.

Not only that, but the double standards surrounding this issue are off the charts.

On May 11 2012 15:49 branflakes14 wrote:
Free speech can't end where feelings begin. Not only are you telling people how they should live, but it's completely impractical and impossible to enforce. If they aren't calling people niggers they could just as easily call them chuzzwozzers. Some people need to learn to be the bigger man.

Not only that, but the double standards surrounding this issue are off the charts.

On May 11 2012 12:31 lorkac wrote:


What hypocrisy?

Everyone is free to write whatever to whomever. Not everyone agrees with each other. It's silly to believe it's okay to tell people whether or not they are allowed to dislike someone or something. If, after complaining, the guys who pay the bills feels a punishment (of their choosing) needs to be implemented--they implement it.

Sometimes it leads to Naniwa saying sorry and skipping out on Code B.

Sometimes it leads to Destiny getting fired.

The end results are arbitrary.

In the end, people are free to and will always be able to go to sponsors to complain. It could be gamers insulted at Destiny, it could be mothers who accidentally walk in on a her son watching a stream. Whatever, people will complain at some point and the number of people who will complain will increase as SC2 becomes more and more ubiquitous.

So the choice is that TL posters try to police the world OR teams police their problem players.

People, at some point, *will* send letters to sponsors no matter what you believe. I will never write to sponsors because that's not my personality--but that doesn't mean others will not or should not. Everyone is free to write to whoever they damn please--it's not your call how someone lives their life.

It is a Team's call to decide how manage and hire their players. That's actually the entire point of their job description.

On May 11 2012 16:02 lorkac wrote:


Free speech didn't end where feelings began.

Free Speech was what the community exercised when they talked to the sponsors.

Destiny says something that insults some
Some says something that upsets Razer
Razer says something that scares Quantic
Quantic says something that fires Destiny
Destiny continues to say something that insults some

All of them practicing freedom of speech.

Destiny is free to say what he wants, Warden is free to say what he wants, and the community is free to say what they want.

On May 11 2012 22:38 superstartran wrote:




And the uneducated usage of freedom of speech from all three resulted into this shitstorm of a situation. The community nor Warden understood what they were doing, they merely wanted to exercise their options to complain. Destiny didn't realize the PR mess he was getting himself into when he responded to said thread. Neither side was right. The only point that we're making is that people need to take a look at what they are doing first before acting, because it was pretty obvious that neither side was making rational decisions at all.


Do you SERIOUSLY think the majority that contacted the sponsors were really thinking about their actions? No. The reason why we ask them to is because there will be a day when they are going to fuck everyone over, and the only person they are going to be able to blame is themselves. There are very few sponsors in the E-Sport Industry as it is; EG.Alex made it clear that attempting to strongarm sponsors and teams does not reflect very well upon the community nor the players/teams that are sponsored. So all we (the people who are complaining about the witchhunt) ask is that people THINK about the consequences before they do anything. Was Destiny's crime really all that bad? Could it have been addressed by Quantic Gaming's management? Did a sponsor REALLY have to get involved?


It's as pretty simple answer; if swaths of people went to the MANAGEMENT instead, then the issue would have likely been addressed, and a sponsor wouldn't have to get involved. Unfortunately, now the players that are on Quantic Gaming, along with the staff, have to suffer from negative publicity with their sponsor that this whole incident has brought up because the "minority" public that was loud couldn't keep their mouths shut for a single day and think about the whole situation first before doing anything. People thought that sacking Destiny was great; and yet they forget that Destiny is not the only player or person that is employed at Quantic Gaming.


This whole mess started with the whole Orb incident in the first place where people AGAIN circumvented the team and just strongarmed EG.Alex with their sponsors. The public was WRONG to contact the sponsors in this situation, as it could have easily been handled by the management at the time. Not enough time was given enough for Alex to work with the situation, and neither was it given to Mark in this instance. The issue that most of us have is the fact that people get so worked up for no apparent reason (come on, were you really THAT offended?) and then do shit like this that not only affects Destiny, but a whole lot more people.

On May 12 2012 00:09 lorkac wrote:


Whether or not the actions of concerned customers is good for industry or not does not matter--you do not control their thoughts and actions. You disliking their actions does not invalidate it much like their actions does not invalidate your inaction. They are differing opinions on the proper response to events. Just because you would not do it yourself does not mean that no one should do it.

Quantic knew they had a foul mouthed player--and they did nothing to prepare him for public. So what happened? People got upset--as people are prone to no matter what society or subgroup. The whole event could have been avoided had Destiny been a better person or had Quantic been actually managing its players from the get go.

A business should not have to wait for its people to be publicly racist before telling their public employees that they shouldn't be racist. Quantic used the lazy route and hoped that the SC2's white male dominated community would simply be okay with someone calling people faggots, gooks, and niggers.

There are three main types of people in an issue.

Those that support an issue, those that hate an issue, and those that don't care either or. In all possible events these three groups of people are always present. There will be some that are okay with Destiny calling people gook, there will be some that are not okay with Destiny calling people gook, and there will be most that don't care either or. I would be that third option. The larger the community, the larger the number of people in each of that subgroup grows. It's just the nature of the game. Not everyone will be supportive of Destiny (or whoever) saying gook (or whatever) much like not everyone will be against it. You can't control how people will feel about any one event, let alone can you control what the appropriate action is. So instead of trying to control the community as a whole--we have to control the only variable that is easy to control--the player.

It's very much easier for teams to simply have a public policy saying "we don't support racist behavior" and to tell its members to honor that promise than it is to control the reactions of an ever growing and changing market share demographic.