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^in b4 lorkac ignores your argument for why people shouldn't go to the sponsors and tells you that you can't make that argument because those people are free to do what they wish and you can't control their actions. Because, you know, anytime you can't control or force people's actions it means that you shouldn't criticize them or try to convince them to change their ways.
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Criticize and try to convince all you want, nobody is trying to force you to stop. They just think you're wrong. Your assessment of the situation is wrong. They're trying to criticize your argument and trying to convince you to stop pushing it.
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I agree Orb should be removed, he shouldnt even be allowed to cast.
I saw his stream and he basically was telling people to fuck off from his stream for expressing their views. I wish I had recorded it for you guys to have a better idea.
But basically, this is how it went.
viewer : T v P late game isn't really winninable
orb: What do you mean T v P late game isnt winnable (whiney voice) You obviously haven't seen any professional late game T v P games.
orb: fuck off from my stream god damn retard
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On May 12 2012 04:02 reqmoreminerals wrote:
I agree Orb should be removed, he shouldnt even be allowed to cast.
I saw his stream and he basically was telling people to fuck off from his stream for expressing their views. I wish I had recorded it for you guys to have a better idea.
But basically, this is how it went.
viewer : T v P late game isn't really winninable
orb: What do you mean T v P late game isnt winnable (whiney voice) You obviously haven't seen any professional late game T v P games.
orb: fuck off from my stream god damn retard
I don't like Orb. But uhm... don't watch his stream? He should be allowed to stream whatever he wants and be able to say whatever he wants. He is not represented by any team currently and even if he were, they should have an issue with what he says not you. If you don't like his rage or attitude(which I don't), don't watch him. He can think and say and stream what he wants.
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On May 12 2012 04:17 Venomsflame wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 04:02 reqmoreminerals wrote:
I agree Orb should be removed, he shouldnt even be allowed to cast.
I saw his stream and he basically was telling people to fuck off from his stream for expressing their views. I wish I had recorded it for you guys to have a better idea.
But basically, this is how it went.
viewer : T v P late game isn't really winninable
orb: What do you mean T v P late game isnt winnable (whiney voice) You obviously haven't seen any professional late game T v P games.
orb: fuck off from my stream god damn retard I don't like Orb. But uhm... don't watch his stream? He should be allowed to stream whatever he wants and be able to say whatever he wants. He is not represented by any team currently and even if he were, they should have an issue with what he says not you. If you don't like his rage or attitude(which I don't), don't watch him. He can think and say and stream what he wants.
You that he's also free to dislike orb, while watching orb stream, while writing letters to whoever. Both orb and he are free to do whatever.
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To clarify, I'm don't follow orb, it was the first time I watched him stream other than the korean weekly.
Streamers can say whatever they want on their own stream yes, but when you're a public face of the community casting for the Korean Weekly, do you think you should spout your mouth off everytime you feel like it?
Will be interested in hearing your views on this.
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On May 12 2012 02:31 Doodsmack wrote:
^in b4 lorkac ignores your argument for why people shouldn't go to the sponsors and tells you that you can't make that argument because those people are free to do what they wish and you can't control their actions. Because, you know, anytime you can't control or force people's actions it means that you shouldn't criticize them or try to convince them to change their ways.
What's funny is that he's arguing that people have the right to engage in free speech to go to a sponsor because they have a 'right' to do what they want -
By his own logic, destiny should then have a right to say w/e the fuck he wants on his stream.
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On May 10 2012 02:04 Chessz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 01:41 shmee wrote:On May 10 2012 01:31 revel8 wrote:On May 10 2012 01:21 Chocobo wrote:On May 10 2012 01:08 revel8 wrote:
Chocobo still steadfastly apologising for racism.
Maybe if I was brought up in 1950's Mississippi, I would agree with Chocobo, however I was not and so regard such views as outdated and intolerant. Welcome to the 21st Century Chocobo, racism is no longer tolerated. Modern times are tough for the kkk demographic.
Your reading comprehension has severely failed you if you think this discussion is about pro-racism vs anti-racism. Actually I can read fine. I know that you said you loved Destiny after it came out that he had racially abused somebody. So you supported his actions in racially abusing somebody. You then proceeded to attempt to smear those who opposed racism as being bigots. You also stated that no-one should be complaining about Destiny at all. You then attempted to argue that Destiny was not actually racially abusing someone. You then stated that racial abuse from Destiny is akin to cartoonish insults and not to be taken seriously. You then proceeded to make various irrelevent analogies in an attempt to obsfucate the issue. You also continued to label those who diagreed with you as immature or having a mob mentality or engaging in a witch-hunt. This was done in order to attempt to discredit their views. You then complained about other members of the community attempting to impose their will over others, and then in the next breath you attempted to control other people by dictating what they should or should not do. So how is my reading comprehension now? The issue here is not whether or not race is the real issue. The issue is that people are FORCING racism into the discussion. In each of the instances, what was said was the same as any generic insult because the player in question was raging, with ONE notable difference: the use of a racial slur. Which of these two is more offensive: "FUCK YOU YOUR MOTHER IS A WHORE AND YOUR DAD TAKES IT UP THE ASS AND YOU LOVE TO EAT SHIT YOU PIECE OF GARBAGE..." etc etc etc for five lines -OR- "fuck off gook" Both are bad, yep. Both are immature and offensive, yep. But is there ANYONE here who can honestly say that they've never gotten pissed off and insulted their opponent? The problem I have is that of my two examples, one's pretty blatantly more offensive AND it's more offensive to a much larger group of people (everyone), whereas the second is offensive to a small group of people and only three words, yet it's seen as some absolutely never-okay horrible terrible thing that no decent human being would ever do. The real issue is that someone got upset, they overreacted, and their overreaction had far harsher consequences than were needed. Not only is this the case for the players who say something stupid, but on the people who get offended and instantly call the fucking sponsors demanding the player's head on a platter. What needs to be done is for teams to have explicit rules for punishments (fines, suspensions, etc) for these types of offenses. This way when someone uses a special word that's on some blacklist, and some idiots go to the sponsors crying hate-mongering, the team can discipline the player by pre-set rules and the sponsor can point to that if they need to. That way overreactions can be punished, but kept in check. this is one of the most privileged things i've ever read.
I think people use the term "privileged" as a pejorative for when they cannot argue what was said, but instead slur it and the author by using a vague term loaded with tons and tons of presumptions.
I think that's really what's at the heart of this entire issue. The problem isn't racism. The problem is that white males used an ethnic slur. Destiny was a fucking carpet cleaner before he turned pro-gamer. How privileged do you really think he was?
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On May 12 2012 11:49 gayfius173 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 02:31 Doodsmack wrote:
^in b4 lorkac ignores your argument for why people shouldn't go to the sponsors and tells you that you can't make that argument because those people are free to do what they wish and you can't control their actions. Because, you know, anytime you can't control or force people's actions it means that you shouldn't criticize them or try to convince them to change their ways. What's funny is that he's arguing that people have the right to engage in free speech to go to a sponsor because they have a 'right' to do what they want - By his own logic, destiny should then have a right to say w/e the fuck he wants on his stream.
He has the right to say bigoted things. There just should't be a surprise if others complain about it. Now, if teams are afraid of people talking to sponsors--then they need to make sure to train their players not to say stuPid shit.
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On May 12 2012 13:45 shmee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 02:04 Chessz wrote:On May 10 2012 01:41 shmee wrote:On May 10 2012 01:31 revel8 wrote:On May 10 2012 01:21 Chocobo wrote:On May 10 2012 01:08 revel8 wrote:
Chocobo still steadfastly apologising for racism.
Maybe if I was brought up in 1950's Mississippi, I would agree with Chocobo, however I was not and so regard such views as outdated and intolerant. Welcome to the 21st Century Chocobo, racism is no longer tolerated. Modern times are tough for the kkk demographic.
Your reading comprehension has severely failed you if you think this discussion is about pro-racism vs anti-racism. Actually I can read fine. I know that you said you loved Destiny after it came out that he had racially abused somebody. So you supported his actions in racially abusing somebody. You then proceeded to attempt to smear those who opposed racism as being bigots. You also stated that no-one should be complaining about Destiny at all. You then attempted to argue that Destiny was not actually racially abusing someone. You then stated that racial abuse from Destiny is akin to cartoonish insults and not to be taken seriously. You then proceeded to make various irrelevent analogies in an attempt to obsfucate the issue. You also continued to label those who diagreed with you as immature or having a mob mentality or engaging in a witch-hunt. This was done in order to attempt to discredit their views. You then complained about other members of the community attempting to impose their will over others, and then in the next breath you attempted to control other people by dictating what they should or should not do. So how is my reading comprehension now? The issue here is not whether or not race is the real issue. The issue is that people are FORCING racism into the discussion. In each of the instances, what was said was the same as any generic insult because the player in question was raging, with ONE notable difference: the use of a racial slur. Which of these two is more offensive: "FUCK YOU YOUR MOTHER IS A WHORE AND YOUR DAD TAKES IT UP THE ASS AND YOU LOVE TO EAT SHIT YOU PIECE OF GARBAGE..." etc etc etc for five lines -OR- "fuck off gook" Both are bad, yep. Both are immature and offensive, yep. But is there ANYONE here who can honestly say that they've never gotten pissed off and insulted their opponent? The problem I have is that of my two examples, one's pretty blatantly more offensive AND it's more offensive to a much larger group of people (everyone), whereas the second is offensive to a small group of people and only three words, yet it's seen as some absolutely never-okay horrible terrible thing that no decent human being would ever do. The real issue is that someone got upset, they overreacted, and their overreaction had far harsher consequences than were needed. Not only is this the case for the players who say something stupid, but on the people who get offended and instantly call the fucking sponsors demanding the player's head on a platter. What needs to be done is for teams to have explicit rules for punishments (fines, suspensions, etc) for these types of offenses. This way when someone uses a special word that's on some blacklist, and some idiots go to the sponsors crying hate-mongering, the team can discipline the player by pre-set rules and the sponsor can point to that if they need to. That way overreactions can be punished, but kept in check. this is one of the most privileged things i've ever read. I think people use the term "privileged" as a pejorative for when they cannot argue what was said, but instead slur it and the author by using a vague term loaded with tons and tons of presumptions. I think that's really what's at the heart of this entire issue. The problem isn't racism. The problem is that white males used an ethnic slur. Destiny was a fucking carpet cleaner before he turned pro-gamer. How privileged do you really think he was?
Nothing says hardship more than being an employed white male living in America rich enough to own a computer who spends his time calling people niggers and gooks.
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If I was a sponsor why would I want to get involved in the SC2 community in it's current state? Essentially I'd end up being hated by half the people regardless of what position I took on anything that occurs. The entire community needs to grow up and leave sponsors out of it bar some positive feedback for supporting us. We are ALL stakeholders with the sponsors. If someone was directly sponsoring you you wouldn't go and complain to them about problems you were having, you'd maintain a professional face and deal with it privately. The community needs to start thinking of themselves as being sponsored from all these fantastic companies contributing financially to us all and begin acting accordingly.
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On May 12 2012 14:42 Peleus wrote:
If I was a sponsor why would I want to get involved in the SC2 community in it's current state? Essentially I'd end up being hated by half the people regardless of what position I took on anything that occurs. The entire community needs to grow up and leave sponsors out of it bar some positive feedback for supporting us. We are ALL stakeholders with the sponsors. If someone was directly sponsoring you you wouldn't go and complain to them about problems you were having, you'd maintain a professional face and deal with it privately. The community needs to start thinking of themselves as being sponsored from all these fantastic companies contributing financially to us all and begin acting accordingly.
The sponsors aren't this dumb. They aren't children. They have certain sums of money to spend on advertising and they have people who spend time doing research to make sure their advertising money gets spent as well as possible. There is hardly anything that's more of a turn off for advertisers than having to be associated with racist language.
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On May 12 2012 15:02 Resistentialism wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 14:42 Peleus wrote:
If I was a sponsor why would I want to get involved in the SC2 community in it's current state? Essentially I'd end up being hated by half the people regardless of what position I took on anything that occurs. The entire community needs to grow up and leave sponsors out of it bar some positive feedback for supporting us. We are ALL stakeholders with the sponsors. If someone was directly sponsoring you you wouldn't go and complain to them about problems you were having, you'd maintain a professional face and deal with it privately. The community needs to start thinking of themselves as being sponsored from all these fantastic companies contributing financially to us all and begin acting accordingly. The sponsors aren't this dumb. They aren't children. They have certain sums of money to spend on advertising and they have people who spend time doing research to make sure their advertising money gets spent as well as possible. There is hardly anything that's more of a turn off for advertisers than having to be associated with racist language.
Of course, I don't blame them for dropping Destiny in the slightest. Another big turn off is catching flak from the community over any decision they make and running into controversy because the community is so immature. If we, the community, keep it up soon there won't be any sponsors left.
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On May 12 2012 15:07 Peleus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:02 Resistentialism wrote:On May 12 2012 14:42 Peleus wrote:
If I was a sponsor why would I want to get involved in the SC2 community in it's current state? Essentially I'd end up being hated by half the people regardless of what position I took on anything that occurs. The entire community needs to grow up and leave sponsors out of it bar some positive feedback for supporting us. We are ALL stakeholders with the sponsors. If someone was directly sponsoring you you wouldn't go and complain to them about problems you were having, you'd maintain a professional face and deal with it privately. The community needs to start thinking of themselves as being sponsored from all these fantastic companies contributing financially to us all and begin acting accordingly. The sponsors aren't this dumb. They aren't children. They have certain sums of money to spend on advertising and they have people who spend time doing research to make sure their advertising money gets spent as well as possible. There is hardly anything that's more of a turn off for advertisers than having to be associated with racist language. Of course, I don't blame them for dropping Destiny in the slightest. Another big turn off is catching flak from the community over any decision they make and running into controversy because the community is so immature. If we, the community, keep it up soon there won't be any sponsors left.
or how about public figures start maturing and realize you can't use racist insults publically. it's really not that hard.
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It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone.
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On May 12 2012 21:51 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 15:07 Peleus wrote:On May 12 2012 15:02 Resistentialism wrote:On May 12 2012 14:42 Peleus wrote:
If I was a sponsor why would I want to get involved in the SC2 community in it's current state? Essentially I'd end up being hated by half the people regardless of what position I took on anything that occurs. The entire community needs to grow up and leave sponsors out of it bar some positive feedback for supporting us. We are ALL stakeholders with the sponsors. If someone was directly sponsoring you you wouldn't go and complain to them about problems you were having, you'd maintain a professional face and deal with it privately. The community needs to start thinking of themselves as being sponsored from all these fantastic companies contributing financially to us all and begin acting accordingly. The sponsors aren't this dumb. They aren't children. They have certain sums of money to spend on advertising and they have people who spend time doing research to make sure their advertising money gets spent as well as possible. There is hardly anything that's more of a turn off for advertisers than having to be associated with racist language. Of course, I don't blame them for dropping Destiny in the slightest. Another big turn off is catching flak from the community over any decision they make and running into controversy because the community is so immature. If we, the community, keep it up soon there won't be any sponsors left. or how about public figures start maturing and realize you can't use racist insults publically. it's really not that hard.
Oh but then people will just dig up your ancient history and find dirt on you (Orb-hint), once a racist always a racist apparently. NOT A PROBLEM WITH OUR COMMUNITY AT ALL.
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On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone.
if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences
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On May 12 2012 21:57 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 21:51 Woony wrote:On May 12 2012 15:07 Peleus wrote:On May 12 2012 15:02 Resistentialism wrote:On May 12 2012 14:42 Peleus wrote:
If I was a sponsor why would I want to get involved in the SC2 community in it's current state? Essentially I'd end up being hated by half the people regardless of what position I took on anything that occurs. The entire community needs to grow up and leave sponsors out of it bar some positive feedback for supporting us. We are ALL stakeholders with the sponsors. If someone was directly sponsoring you you wouldn't go and complain to them about problems you were having, you'd maintain a professional face and deal with it privately. The community needs to start thinking of themselves as being sponsored from all these fantastic companies contributing financially to us all and begin acting accordingly. The sponsors aren't this dumb. They aren't children. They have certain sums of money to spend on advertising and they have people who spend time doing research to make sure their advertising money gets spent as well as possible. There is hardly anything that's more of a turn off for advertisers than having to be associated with racist language. Of course, I don't blame them for dropping Destiny in the slightest. Another big turn off is catching flak from the community over any decision they make and running into controversy because the community is so immature. If we, the community, keep it up soon there won't be any sponsors left. or how about public figures start maturing and realize you can't use racist insults publically. it's really not that hard. Oh but then people will just dig up your ancient history and find dirt on you (Orb-hint), once a racist always a racist apparently. NOT A PROBLEM WITH OUR COMMUNITY AT ALL.
ancient history? as far as I'm concerned he made those insults fairly recently. you know why somebody like incontrol still has a job, even though he has his fair share of haters? because he's smart enough to not publically say dumb shit that can get him fired easily. or even if he does does, he's smart enough to not lie and get upset about it (orb) or act like what he did was not wrong at all (destiny)
I'm sorry, but when you are in a position where 3 emails can cost you your job, it's your own fault. you people act like not using racist slurs as a public figure is some kind of big challenge, ugh.
even that said you know, orb would've been fine if he wouldn't have been so stupid to lie about it and wrongly attacking people and destiny would've been fine if he didn't act like he is the big protector of free speech for using racist slurs.
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On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences
And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all.
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On May 12 2012 22:10 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 22:02 mememolly wrote:On May 12 2012 21:52 TheCreature wrote:
It's amazing how 3 emails to a sponsor can ruin it for everyone. if you say dumb racist shit then you should suffer the consequences And Destiny suffered no consequences, QuanticGaming did. The players and staff more than anyone else. Destiny lost a marginal amount of money at best. The people who got hurt was QuanticGaming and the community. It's amazing that people can't see this at all.
Well, in a way Quantic is also suffering the consequences of their actions. they knew what they were getting into when they hired destiny.
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EPT
