On January 17 2012 06:35 Protactinium wrote: For an explanation on BC, I changed my mind after realizing it is just possible for him to be bad town. Macpo/Ciryandor were better targets anyway.
On January 17 2012 05:37 Nisani201 wrote: Protactinium begins by running for mayor on the platform of lynching Ciryandor. But there is no way that Protactinium actually had a case against Ciryandor this early. Especially since, at the time Protactinium wrote that, Ciryandor only had one post in the game. So from this we can deduce that Protact is either bad town, or scum.
This is just flat out wrong. You dont need a lot of posts to tell that someone is mafia. Ciryandor was bullshitting about Wiggles having the best campaign. Thats it! Mafia trying to make something out of nothing right there. I don't need pages and pages of spam to prove someone is mafia. All it takes is a few posts to show they're making stuff up because they're not town. Strangely enough you think that my early accusation means I am bad or mafia. Lol. On the contrary, it just means I'm good. I didn't need followup questions. The rest of his posts revealed his colors without the need for questioning.
Why would a scum use bullshit to support a townie campaign?
I really don't like GGQ for a lynch candidate btw. Ciryandor was antagonistic and had the same reaction to his posts as he did other townie's accusations. I think he would react differently if he was speaking to a fellow mafia.
ok back again: We not going to lynch a new guy who barely posted. Theses guys turn out to be unreadable early on and flip by true chance. I've got to admit that I'm not done reading yet but I don't think lynching GGQ is a good idea yet although I would hardly call it a bad idea. We simply got better people.
Finding mafia is going to be easier the longer this game takes. You really want to lynch a new guy who HAS to screw up sometimes if he really is mafia? Just lynch the guy we're capable of reading RIGHT NOW: Sandroba
On January 17 2012 06:53 Toadesstern wrote: ok back again: We not going to lynch a new guy who barely posted. Theses guys turn out to be unreadable early on and flip by true chance. I've got to admit that I'm not done reading yet but I don't think lynching GGQ is a good idea yet although I would hardly call it a bad idea. We simply got better people.
Finding mafia is going to be easier the longer this game takes. You really want to lynch a new guy who HAS to screw up sometimes if he really is mafia? Just lynch the guy we're capable of reading RIGHT NOW: Sandroba
so you still would pick sandro over GGQ and Chaos? Have you read that? Looked very much like scum...
As I stated a billion times before, I think either Sandro or BC is scum. If both were town, the logs would be faked. I mean there was enough time, but this is soooo much effort for little gain. I might be wrong here.
If one of them is town, I am leaning towards BC. But I am not sure...
On January 17 2012 06:53 Toadesstern wrote: ok back again: We not going to lynch a new guy who barely posted. Theses guys turn out to be unreadable early on and flip by true chance. I've got to admit that I'm not done reading yet but I don't think lynching GGQ is a good idea yet although I would hardly call it a bad idea. We simply got better people.
Finding mafia is going to be easier the longer this game takes. You really want to lynch a new guy who HAS to screw up sometimes if he really is mafia? Just lynch the guy we're capable of reading RIGHT NOW: Sandroba
so you still would pick sandro over GGQ and Chaos? Have you read that? Looked very much like scum...
As I stated a billion times before, I think either Sandro or BC is scum. If both were town, the logs would be faked. I mean there was enough time, but this is soooo much effort for little gain. I might be wrong here.
If one of them is town, I am leaning towards BC. But I am not sure...
whoops almost edited. close one.
EBWOP:
If one of them is SCUM, I am leaning towards BC. But I am not sure...
On January 17 2012 06:35 Protactinium wrote: For an explanation on BC, I changed my mind after realizing it is just possible for him to be bad town. Macpo/Ciryandor were better targets anyway.
On January 17 2012 05:37 Nisani201 wrote: Protactinium begins by running for mayor on the platform of lynching Ciryandor. But there is no way that Protactinium actually had a case against Ciryandor this early. Especially since, at the time Protactinium wrote that, Ciryandor only had one post in the game. So from this we can deduce that Protact is either bad town, or scum.
This is just flat out wrong. You dont need a lot of posts to tell that someone is mafia. Ciryandor was bullshitting about Wiggles having the best campaign. Thats it! Mafia trying to make something out of nothing right there. I don't need pages and pages of spam to prove someone is mafia. All it takes is a few posts to show they're making stuff up because they're not town. Strangely enough you think that my early accusation means I am bad or mafia. Lol. On the contrary, it just means I'm good. I didn't need followup questions. The rest of his posts revealed his colors without the need for questioning.
Why would a scum use bullshit to support a townie campaign?
To make it look like they're contributing and having an opinion when they're actually not. Note how Wiggles never actually stands a chance of winning. His support of Wiggles is not relevant in the grand scheme of things, but it still makes him look contributing.
Its not untypical for mafia to appear to butt heads with each other in attempt to dissociate themselves. The thing is, if they are both mafia, Ciryandor knows how GGQ is going to respond, so that is one less unknown variable you have to worry about. Notice how GGQ never mentions Ciryandor. Why? Because, Ciryandor was never being serious about his accusation in the first place. Surprise! Again note the theme of laziness here. Mafia were too lazy to keep up the act.
Lets stop discussing Sandroba/BC being mafia for now. There are bigger fish to fry (all the apathetic people).
On January 17 2012 06:39 Nisani201 wrote: Why would a scum use bullshit to support a townie campaign?
On January 17 2012 06:45 VisceraEyes wrote: Why would scum support a townie campaign? Hmmmmmmm?
What are you guys talking about? I don't understand if you are being sarcastic or not.
However, MAFIA NEED EXCUSES TO VOTE.
It doesn't matter if they vote for or against Town. They will always need an excuse because they KNOW who isn't mafia.
It is very common for mafia to pretend to support Town-aligned players.
It was a very good tell that Ciryandor was looking for a reason to cast his vote. At the time he claimed that Mr. Wiggles (who he knew to be Town) had the best campaign. He stated no other explanation. There was no comparison between the various platforms. It was simply an excuse to cast his vote.
On January 13 2012 14:26 Ciryandor wrote: /confirm
LOL I won't vote for Kitaman after XLVIII's disaster. He was an absolute derp in that. Waiting for people to put in a serious campaign with a decent policy. This is why I'm waiting for Mr. Wiggles and Cyber_Cheese to provide us with good reasons; and right now, Wiggles has the best campaign of the lot.
I of course wonder if Sandroba or Palmar will try to get to the elections again.
I'm running for mayor on the platform of lynching Ciryandor. There's no way you seriously think Mr. Wiggles has the best campaign.
LOL that's a good reason to get you voted in. Lynching someone for having an opinion.
Your posts have been very bad so far.
On January 13 2012 13:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Oh fail, didn't realise there was elections... ##Unvote
I'm going to run for mayor.
Lynch all lurkers/liars is standard pre-game chat, and it's mostly useless. Let's skip that. It's all too situational, and we rarely follow through with it.
This post is also bad.
LOL says the guy whose first post is to criticize bad posts.
In a more productive light, where is Bill? Does he actually want to be mayor? I'm starting to wonder why Foolishness is pushing for him to be mayor. Are there any other candidates besides Kita and Wiggles that want to step up? I realize that it's only the third hour or so from game's start, so we'll probably have activity pick up in the next nine or so from EU people waking up.
Read: "What I just said was not useful, ignore it plz".
I honestly think GGQ has just as bad a posting history as mine, and that he has escaped scrutiny by creating an FoS on me just because I was asking why I should be believing the early candidates like Cyber_Cheese instead of Mr. Wiggles during that time.
For Ciryandor to think that GGQ "escaped scrutiny" must mean that he really did think GGQ was suspicious. Right? Well, the previous post says otherwise. His previous accusation is not made in a serious tone, and he even tries to cover it up by adding "In a more productive light" (followed by useless stuff) after. Ciryandor really isn't interested in lynching GGQ. Its just a distraction to save himself, or perhaps GGQ in the event that he does get killed.
On January 17 2012 06:53 Toadesstern wrote: ok back again: We not going to lynch a new guy who barely posted. Theses guys turn out to be unreadable early on and flip by true chance. I've got to admit that I'm not done reading yet but I don't think lynching GGQ is a good idea yet although I would hardly call it a bad idea. We simply got better people.
Finding mafia is going to be easier the longer this game takes. You really want to lynch a new guy who HAS to screw up sometimes if he really is mafia? Just lynch the guy we're capable of reading RIGHT NOW: Sandroba
so you still would pick sandro over GGQ and Chaos? Have you read that? Looked very much like scum...
As I stated a billion times before, I think either Sandro or BC is scum. If both were town, the logs would be faked. I mean there was enough time, but this is soooo much effort for little gain. I might be wrong here.
If one of them is town, I am leaning towards BC. But I am not sure...
quoted this, saw your EBWOP:
Well it's pretty much the same for me. Just that I think it's BC who's town, Sandroba is just incredible scummy this game and needs to die. Furthermore we're getting way much information out of him after lynching him. I hardly have information about GGQ and Chaos. I couldn't even tell you who they voted or who they want to lynch right now, but yeah I'm still reading. My point is, if both GGQ and sandroba are equally mafia I'd rather lynch sandroba for several issues: I never player with GGQ. Looks like a new guy to me and that's hard to judge from time to time. I'd be way more scared to mislynch GGQ because I'm not capable to understand him because of the fact that he's new. Another thing is that I'd like to get townies on ONE lynch. n1 we had a lot of people saying we need to lynch sandroba (myself included) and there's hardly anyone who disagrees in lynching sandroba although there's a bunch of people who are neutral about him. I think it's easier to get people on sandroba on a hard d2. After all d2 is still a day with little information and we're bound to have a lot of people who think they found scum as well and therefor think they need to vote the guy they found instead of say sandroba or GGQ.
On January 13 2012 17:11 sandroba wrote: Hi everybody, I'll be running for mayor and I need your support. The whole basis of my campaign is being town and pretty decent at figuring out scum. Myself holding day1 lynch and 3 votes everyday is a pretty good deal on average I'd say so. Also it's ridiculously easy to figure out my alignment not only because I suck as scum, but also because I hate it and usually can't keep up with the thread after a few days. So yeah, you don't have to worry about that because I'm thankfully town this game. Another benefit to electing me is that I usually get shot pretty early on (normally day2 the latest), and I can tell you that keeping me alive will improve town's chances by a lot. Let me say that there is no fucking reason to not elect a trustworthy established sumhunter in favor of electing a new player whose millage may vary. The main goal of the mayor role is to get someone who can reliably get scum lynched and be a threat to mafia. Putting in a random dude has no benefit to town and can even be detrimental if the dude has his head stuck up his ass. So town gather up and give me your support, because mafia isn't going to let me get this position easily. It makes them feel unsafe and fearful. They are right. I'm coming for them.
This post stuck out at me. The bolded part is what really stands out in this post. Its true. In the games I have played with sand as scum (PTP:I) after day 2, he just gave up for the most part. however, that he says that his scum play is bad is not the case at all. I think sandroba is one of the best day 1 scum players here. He will often go out of his way to do things that scum would never do on day 1, making pining him down as scum later in the game as hard to do. He makes a strong day 1 showing his game plan so he can ride on it for a few cycles as he gets more lazy, to use his own words. So what happened In PYP:I day 1?
*He devises a plan for how town should pick there roles, argues against people trying to put up other plans, and re-works the plan with the obviously townie and eventually Mayor Radfield. This plan adopted for the most part by a lot of townies results in a very strong set of roles for town.
*He get very active in PM land with a group of players that come to control the rest of the game. later on, WBG starts to really tunnel sandroba for being scum, but he can not convenience anyone else that sand is scum a la "look how pro town he is", this despite the fact that for the whole game he did NO SCUM HUNTING. he lives till the end of the game despite mostly giving up after day 2 because of his infiltration of the town circle and there read on him as town.
So far We have many Day 1 similarity's:
On January 14 2012 04:26 sandroba wrote: Okay let me address somethings I liked in this thread:
1) Proactinum post is the best one so far. Fuck yes I like it. Cyriandor is my top candidate for lynch if I get elected.
2) Jackal's idea is very good. If I'm elected I'll lynch 1 or 0 bg.
3) I'm seriously considering supporting a mason mass claim day1. Mafia will have to claim it early if they ever want to use it and it gives us good basis for discussion. These big games fall rapidly out of control if we don't keep focus and this will give us something to go by.
On January 14 2012 05:34 sandroba wrote: Alright peeps here are the advantages of mass claim masons:
1) It forces mafia to come under a lot of scrutiny if they want to use the mason power. The plan is to watch these people closely and get a lot of the info out in the open, instead of allowing masons to operate in the shadows.
2) If mafia doesn't want the spot light they will probably not claim nor use their mason powers, which is very good for town. For this same reason we must not go on a witch hunt on the claimed masons, because they can be of any alignment and may be all town as well. We shall lynch people because of suspicious behavior, not because of trying to find mafia withing the masons.
3) There is not much of a downside to it. If mafia wants to waste their roleblock/kill on mason by all means be my guest. It further protects our really important blue roles which is great. If they choose to ignore them we are back in the same place we we're before with extra info as town that mafia opted not to use. Which is great.
Here we have Sand making plans again. as well as budding up to players like protract and BC. Mass claiming Masons in this set up can be argued both ways as to whom it favors. In reality, it depends on how we go about it. These things are not scummy per say, but its how he is going about it that is. His motivations are for insuring his own safety, rather than scum hunting. which brings me to point 2.
Mayoral campaign and lynch
Sandroba wants to be mayor, and sandroba wants to lynch Cyriandor. This is what he says, but his actions say otherwise. Does anyone think sand was trying hard to get elected? Not from where I sit. His "campaign" is full of "Hey guys im good, elect me lawl im drunk!" He was running for mayor but had know intentions of getting elected. This allows him to push his "lynch", which Wont happen because he does not want to get elected. He does a great job of convincing us that Cyriandor is scum with powerful logic: "hes ugly and he smells bad". For added effect, he says it twice. Does anyone think that Sandroba is trying to convince town on his position? Because I can tell you he is not. His Modivation for these post is not one of getting scum lynch, but as a set up should Cyriandor flip later (whitch he knows is scum) to put him in a strong position. If he was town, He would have both tried harder to get elected and pushed Cyriandor harder.
Later in day 1 he sets up alternate lynches as well:
On January 14 2012 16:26 sandroba wrote: Alright people I want to get elected and no one is fucking voting for me. What do you want me to do so you would fucking vote? Tell me and I'll do it. I have plenty of time right now and I can post random useless shit if that's what get's you voting.
Why ciryandor?
I think I talked about this already. He's ugly and smells bad. Also protact's case was the best thing to land on this thread so far. Also I might lynch a bg instead. Who knows.
Giving himself an out. not the town Sandroba I know.
*Sandroba's play is consistent with his day 1 scum play from previous games. He has proven he is willing to go out of his way to act very protown, both by pushing plans that can be in towns interest, as well as lightly busing his own teammates.
*Sandroba's Motivations are not to find scum, rather his over all behavior shows self preservation as his primary motivating factor in his posting. This is in direct opposition to what town Sandroba does. Town Sandroba does not have to worry about looking town because he finds scum. Scum Sandroba does, at it reflects in his behavior this game.
On January 17 2012 06:53 Toadesstern wrote: ok back again: We not going to lynch a new guy who barely posted. Theses guys turn out to be unreadable early on and flip by true chance. I've got to admit that I'm not done reading yet but I don't think lynching GGQ is a good idea yet although I would hardly call it a bad idea. We simply got better people.
Finding mafia is going to be easier the longer this game takes. You really want to lynch a new guy who HAS to screw up sometimes if he really is mafia? Just lynch the guy we're capable of reading RIGHT NOW: Sandroba
It's posts like these that only solidify GGQ is scum. Look at the way Toad defends GGQ, he recognizes the merits of the case but says we have better people. This is a common theme with people who think GGQ is a bad lynch, let's take a look at another such person.
On January 17 2012 06:51 p4NDemik wrote: I really don't like GGQ for a lynch candidate btw. Ciryandor was antagonistic and had the same reaction to his posts as he did other townie's accusations. I think he would react differently if he was speaking to a fellow mafia.
Again, there's hesitancy and at the same time an unwillingness to engage the issue directly. Neither Toad nor p4ndemik flat out tell me I'm wrong, instead they simply say they don't like it. WHY? I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, what I'm not fine with is people disagreeing without giving a reason. And no, Toad did not give a reason. Saying "there are better people" is a cop out because you don't have to address whether you think the case is good. And in Toad's case, he even says "it's not a bad idea." Well if it's not a bad idea then you must agree with it, if you agree with it then you think GGQ is scum, if you think GGQ is scum then why aren't you voting him?
On January 17 2012 02:56 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually Sand, I'm not so sure about GGQ...I'd rather a vig take care of this one than lynch it. I find this post to be humorous as hell. Why would you want to lynch someone with like seven posts Sand? If you really think he's skating-by-scum, wouldn't the optimal play be to let a vig take care of him?
Here we have another soft defense of GGQ, VE tactly admits that GGQ is scummy but would rather have a vigi take care of him. I really don't get it. All three of these people acknowledge the case on GGQ but somehow all of them have an excuse for why GGQ is a bad lynch. It's actually baffling, if you say it's a good case then you vote the person, you don't come up with bullshit reasons why they're not the best option.
I don't know if all three of these are scum or if one or two just got caught up in retard reasoning, however mark these posts well, this is how scum get pressure off themselves, by admitting the case is good to mollify those pushing the lynch and then offer alternatives to a lynch.
I guess here's my final word on the soft defends. If you're gonna step up and defend GGQ then do so, I have no problem with someone defending GGQ as long as they do so in a townie manner. These little softs defends just scream mafia. Just because I think GGQ is mafia it doesn't mean you're mafia for defending him unless you defend him in a scummy way.
Lets stop discussing Sandroba/BC being mafia for now. There are bigger fish to fry (all the apathetic people).
That's something I've got problems with. Why to you want to lynch into apathetic people at all. Those people are the kind of people you lynch when you've got nothing going on and need to get at least something going. Just let our vigis shoot into lurkers and deal with them once we run out of obvious targets like sandroba. That's what our vigis are good for after all.
On January 17 2012 06:53 Toadesstern wrote: ok back again: We not going to lynch a new guy who barely posted. Theses guys turn out to be unreadable early on and flip by true chance. I've got to admit that I'm not done reading yet but I don't think lynching GGQ is a good idea yet although I would hardly call it a bad idea. We simply got better people.
Finding mafia is going to be easier the longer this game takes. You really want to lynch a new guy who HAS to screw up sometimes if he really is mafia? Just lynch the guy we're capable of reading RIGHT NOW: Sandroba
It's posts like these that only solidify GGQ is scum. Look at the way Toad defends GGQ, he recognizes the merits of the case but says we have better people. This is a common theme with people who think GGQ is a bad lynch, let's take a look at another such person.
are you kidding me? I pushed for a sandroba lynch way before people even started to think about GGQ. If anythin GGQ is the guy who is supposed to safe Sandroba
On January 17 2012 07:17 kingjames01 wrote: Bill Murray:
You incarcerated Lanaia during Night 1. Why did you choose her? Also, why do you think you saved her from death? She received no such notification.
Do you believe that the mafia joined the election Day 1 and do you think that they succeeded to take at least one of the roles?
Have you taken also precautions so that in the event of BC and/or your early demise, the Bodyguards will be revealed to the thread?
Better question. Bill, Why did you use "incarcerate" It's limited 3 time use. What made you think it was good to use it on lanaia rather then saving it?
GGQ is pretty much not a priority at the moment, few amount of posts. Seriously, the best thing that we got on him is that he considers macpo a ,,newb town''. This player doesn't have any logic at all, and therefore is hard to analyse.He says that people are bad without any reason, says who to lynch without basis, responds to trivial thread questions with 1 liners. It could be that he's mafia, but We have other priorities(macpo amongst glaring cases).
Also, I don't give as much importance to things like: If a flipped mafia doesn't suspect another player , then he must be mafia(the other player). Mafia often bus their weakest players, maybe not as bad as pushing hard for their lynch when the player already has a decent number of votes, in order to weed out liabilities in their roster. Else they attract attention as a group that doesn't fit the town agenda.
Prota,I believe you're bussing macpo because of your sudden switch from BC to him once you found out someone was going to notice anyway. Cyriandor was, for you, nothing more than a simple start to your campaign of painting scum-You were planning to switch anyway and let the case be forgotten. After macpo flips red, i'll turn towards you. You're suspicious, but there may still be cases in which you're innocent-I'll delve into it.
Lets stop discussing Sandroba/BC being mafia for now. There are bigger fish to fry (all the apathetic people).
That's something I've got problems with. Why to you want to lynch into apathetic people at all. Those people are the kind of people you lynch when you've got nothing going on and need to get at least something going. Just let our vigis shoot into lurkers and deal with them once we run out of obvious targets like sandroba. That's what our vigis are good for after all.
Apathy is not inactivity. Apathy does not mean that a player is unreadable. On the contrary, look at how this game has unfolded as a whole. Day 1 is full of chaos. The thread explodes to 75 pages, and hardly anyone is looking for mafia. You have some hardline players like WBG and company who want to throw Palmar off a cliff, and a bunch of useless mason discussion. The mafia have no reason to be actively at the front of the stage because it inherently carries risk. The town is already in a natural state of chaos anyway. Thus, the mafia are the ones who are going to be slacking off.
A sandroba lynch is absolutely ridiculous and the amount of support it is getting is shockingly disturbing.
On January 14 2012 04:26 sandroba wrote: 1) Proactinum post is the best one so far. Fuck yes I like it. Cyriandor is my top candidate for lynch if I get elected.
On January 14 2012 16:26 sandroba wrote: Alright people I want to get elected and no one is fucking voting for me. What do you want me to do so you would fucking vote? Tell me and I'll do it. I have plenty of time right now and I can post random useless shit if that's what get's you voting.
Why ciryandor?
I think I talked about this already. He's ugly and smells bad. Also protact's case was the best thing to land on this thread so far. Also I might lynch a bg instead. Who knows.
No mafia digs up a case on a fellow mafia when it is dead and buried.
On January 16 2012 06:22 wherebugsgo wrote: @ Toadesstern:
Please explain why you find bumatlarge to be scummy.
Also, summarize your thoughts on Protactinium and sandroba while you're at it. I want to know things from you.
as promised (sry took longer because I completly forgot it ) about sandroba: I don't like the fact that BC lynched Palmar at all. Sandroba was the guy who made BC lynch Palmar instead of whoever he wanted to lynch first. I asked BC and Sandroba to show me their pm logs, neither one did it and I don't like the coincidence of bc masoning sandroba although I have to agree that that one point probably is circular reasoning because I think it's something that makes bc scummy Sandroba's budding with Palmar (without a reason) and with BC (without giving an explanation). Also he voted BC.
If you now look at what I posted about bum and BC you realize that there's a lot of mentioning each other within this circle of BC-Bum-Sandroba. I've got the feeling sandroba is trying to trick me/ us his picks and his style obviously is not helping at all. My highest priority to lynch right now would be sandroba, followed by bum. I won't support a bc lynch although I think he's leaning scum for me right now because I'm not sure about my judgement of bc yet. I'd say he's got a 30-50% of flipping red instead of true 10 out of 50.
Explain how you know Sandroba made BC lynch Palmar, when he never said such a thing.
EPT
) about sandroba:
