TL Mafia L - Page 91

On January 17 2012 02:20 Jayjay54 wrote:
Hey guys, I’m back from work, so I have time to figure stuff out.

First of all, GG to all the dead. May they rest in peace! WP everyone.

I try to focus on the NKs, we may get information why they were shot. I’ll compare them by listing People they opposed and things they supported, mostly with quotes. May contain traces of WIFOM.

I want to start with the not so sure shot people. You'll see why.


Lanaia




People she opposed:
Well, pretty much none (talking about before the day 2 start, she gave a pretty neutral list today). A little post against palmar, a little post about L, but quickly withdraw.

Things she supported:
Well, uhm. Yeah. Vote was on BC
Sooo Lanaia? What? Why? She was a total Null read to nearly everybody. Some people even called her scum. Includiiing:



a) Why the fuck would BM jail Lanaia? Because he thought she has a role? Lanaia was even confused herself.


This makes 0 sense to me. Care to explain BM?

b) How does BM know that he saved her? Does he get notified? And why would he want that if he thinks shes scum? And why on earth would the mafia use a pretty NK to kill a pretty neutral person who even was a lynch candidate to some? Please enlighten us BM.

=> Don’t know what to make out of it. But I don’t believe whatsoever that the mafia used a NK on her. Which is why:

On January 17 2012 03:03 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Could Lanaia be mafia? You ever consider that? I have...Not just the long post today were neutral. Almost every post. But I'll be pointing that out later, I gotta do some things real quick.

On January 16 2012 14:11 L wrote:
Jayjay, if you've got questions, now's the time.

I'm going to take a sleep and write up my main suspects thusfar when I have a slow period at work.

On January 17 2012 02:47 Jayjay54 wrote:


At this point, a lot. I'd bet my ass that if sandro is town, BC is scum

On January 17 2012 02:15 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Is it just me, or is that some timing? Just as Sandroba decides GGQ as his vote

It took me some time to write the post before that, and then I refreshed and saw the post by sandroba and felt his argument for pushing ggq was quite weak and I didnt want palmar happening again.


BAM! SOFTDEFEND

So I took a look at Chaosquo's Filter





1 - Protects Ciryandor multiple times.
Look at the thread at that time. Ciry only made three meaningful posts at that time and non seemed very scummy. I didnt understand the accusation protactinium and sandroba were making, it didnt have much grounds imo. I thought that this accusation got seemingly randomly picked up by different people (Sheth comemntated on it later), which left me pretty confused, so I wanted to hear a stronger case.
2 - Casts doubt on both Palmar.
I just said that what palmar was doing is questionable, and I wanted him to step up the posting to avoid getting lynched.
3 - And Wiggles

4 - Apologetic
That was after I looked into his other game and I felt the meta argument was overdone.
5 - Calls attention to his inexperience
And I was trying to reinforce the point that I that believe mafia masons can manipulate town.

##Vote Chaosquo

On January 17 2012 04:05 Cwave wrote:


How so? I think his masonclaim plan was bad.
But i don't see how Sandro flipping scum/town has any impact on the allignment of BC at this moment?

On January 17 2012 04:11 hiro protagonist wrote:
Ok, time to start this game

Today's lynch will be scumdroba

analysis coming shortly

On January 17 2012 03:31 sandroba wrote:
One thing that tipped me off is him comparing my play to the game we played together as scum, which he should be able to do better and realize that's not the same.

hi everyone!

/confirm.

I am a complete noob in this game, so please be forgiving to my small mistakes here and there!
I'll try to share my views on this first day. Sorry if it's a bit clumsy, I am doing my best.

1. concerning the mayor election, I don't know if it's a usual thing, but I feel it's a bad idea to have too many people running for the election... in a sense, this mess is already a success for the mafia, isn't it? So, I would suggest that the persons who don't seem to be so concerned with it just stop running for the election, so that we have only a few candidates left. It doesn't mean there will be more or less scums among the left candidates, but at least, we can look more closely to who they are and clarify things. But maybe that's a bad idea!

about who could be a good mayor, I am not so sure right now.(how difficult is it to ground any judgment at the moment! ) I think the main thing is to keep in mind that whoever we elect, we are absolutely not sure of who he really is, even if we convincingly voted for him after some reasonable discussion.
So let me give my two cents (not worth more!).
I have to say I appreciated the candidacy of Mr Wriggles , who has a clear argumentation and is pleasant to read. Not talking too much, making clear logical points. The only thing I am afraid of is that it may be a trick. Also, the Foolishness Bill murray candidacy sounds too big to be mafia-ish. There are claiming their "alliance" too loud, it would be way too risky for them if they were mafia, as everyone focuses on them. So, paradoxically, I would trust them more (or Bill Murray more precisely) as mayor.
So I guess I will vote either Mr Wriggles, or Bill Murray; Mr Wriggles being more rational and precise in his analysis (but maybe it's a game) while Bill Murray is more a safety choice (with our very limited information, I feel it's rational to assume that he can't be mafia). But these are only very limited hypotheses and assumptions. How do you guys feel about that?

I am also kind of sad that Echelon tee didn't apply, as I feel I share most of his analyses up to now . except for foolishness maybe.

2. Reading the whole 5 pages of debate, I noticed a few things. First is Cyber_cheese. What's the point of attacking Mr Wriggles from the beginning? that doesn't help for town cohesion at all (even more if it's a "joke"). it just looks like he wants to create a mess. Other people seem to have similar concerns with him, so maybe this is something worth discussing alltogether. So what do you think? Cyber, if maybe, could you say a word about this?

To make it clear, it's merely an impression, I don't want to focus too much on you either. In a sense, Cyber is obviously not the only one. I feel that there are many useless agressive posts all around. So how do you guys feel about that? For instance, lthe ast one between Wherebugsgo and palmar, (as Toadesstern remarked): What's the point of being aggressive like that if you are town? Correct me if I am wrong, but I see no other reason for such a behaviour than one of them at least being scum. At the same time WBG's analysis sounds convincing for the moment. Others in similar situations would be nisani for instance. But maybe I am missing things here...

Feel free to criticize my analysis, I am here to improve! and all my apologies to the misaccused persons, but from what I read in various guides, we have to go through this to find out real mafia...


Macpo

just a short question : how are you so sure that palmar is scum? palmar sounded a bit agressive, but saying he is easy to read? (I am not asking this with an agressive suspicious tone, just trying to figure things out)
Also, what is it in BCs posts that makes you feel he is trustworthy?

Ok, I feel I have now to address some critiques which got louder and louder to the point that I am close to being lynched.
As far as my friendly tone is concerned, please first have a look at my previous posts in the mafia section, and you will see that I am not "faking" this for the purposes of the game (unless I had foreseen before actually starting the game that it would help being mafia later).
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133814&currentpage=27
or, in the beginning of this thread, before day 1.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=16
For further psychological profiling, if you really want to go that far, have a look at the zerg help me thread in sc2 strategy section.

Do you guys remember that it is completely normal to be modest and friendly when you arrive somewhere? Think about it: you get on a forum you don't know anything about, how can you even think about doing this weird shit you all do, like random accusations every 2 seconds? I didn't suspect not doing this would bring me into huge trouble, and that insulting and accusing everyone was the way to go. So I feel it's kind of unfair to make me reproaches in this regard.
About lists: what's wrong with lists, BM did a list… nobody complains… I still don't get the point. The truth is, I really don't know how to identify who is mafia. I have read many guides on TL, or even on mafia wiki, but hey! it's a lot of (often contradictory) information. Even the vocabulary is a pain in the ass, as I have to go on mafiawiki every two posts to understand what you are talking about.

Now I feel my only chance is to be as transparent as possible. So here I am: my strategy was two sided.
1.I should be honest and rational (the simpler, the better), as the first thing you read in guides is that mafia was always trying to flood/spam/lack of argumentation. So I kind of spoke my mind, and especially shared my uncertainties (only liars want to appear to be certain). I tried to do some constructive stuff, at my skill level, like going through the filter and gather information on who is posting and who is not; instead of saying "=> YOU are guilty", without any kind of evidence as so many did, with the brilliant results we know. I am still not sure why I should give up this attitude, as I feel it's more constructive than lots of other stuff.
Some people say I didn't want to take responsibility, but that's precisely being responsible: not to attack without any kind of reason. Not to mention the fact that I was one of the first to vote, for Bill Murray (who so nicely now wants to kill me).
2. Also, I definitely tried to make friends so that we can back up each other in case we were under attack (like Mr Wiggles and Echelon toe); I take that from my experience of previous games where it is essential (for those knowing Junta). Maybe it's a bit clumsy, it obviously didn't work, but hey! can you even call a piece of argument against me?
But now, because of all this, I feel badly trapped!
So I beg you kindly: don't lynch me! If there is any other evidence or question I can answer to, in order to prove my innocence, just let me know. But please (and I don't want to be excessive, but I am afraid it's gonna end up like that) don't make a stalinian trial like you seem to do all the time:
"YOU ARE guilty Macpo
- No no I am not? I didn't do anything, I wasn't even there!
- WHY do you even defend yourself, if you are not guilty??? YOU ARE guilty!

I'm going to take a look at a few people, GGQ, rgtscworch, BC's list etc. rgtSchwors have been under alittle suspicion but I just saw he signed up for another game. To me that almost feels like a confession. He hasn't put that much pro-town effort into this game to justify signing up for a new game. Train of thoughts. Signing up for another game means he has more time. More time he doesn't put into this game means he is already putting down as much time as he wants to in this game. He is mafia.