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United States2095 Posts
On January 17 2012 08:18 rgTheSchworz wrote:@Sheth, do not think I am uninformed or dumb in any way. I play IRL mafia if that helps and some friends have gotten me into forum mafia. Show nested quote +(The only way Schworz would know he is bussing someone is if he was mafia too).
Feel free to speculate on my supposed stupidity.Logically before playing i have read some Mafiawiki.I know what the term means. Macpo is a clear case for reasons i have mentioned.I won't switch to someone else unless people fail to vote. ##Vote: Macpo
Everyone makes mistakes, I wasn't calling you dumb. I in fact state I've made the same mistake. It is speculation, so we'll see. Did you accidentally type bussing then btw? I notice you never really deny it in your post.
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United States13896 Posts
Toad can you please be less ambiguous are you talking about Proact or Sandro?
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On January 17 2012 07:42 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 07:24 Toadesstern wrote:On January 17 2012 07:10 Protactinium wrote:
Lets stop discussing Sandroba/BC being mafia for now. There are bigger fish to fry (all the apathetic people).
That's something I've got problems with. Why to you want to lynch into apathetic people at all. Those people are the kind of people you lynch when you've got nothing going on and need to get at least something going. Just let our vigis shoot into lurkers and deal with them once we run out of obvious targets like sandroba. That's what our vigis are good for after all. Apathy is not inactivity. Apathy does not mean that a player is unreadable. On the contrary, look at how this game has unfolded as a whole. Day 1 is full of chaos. The thread explodes to 75 pages, and hardly anyone is looking for mafia. You have some hardline players like WBG and company who want to throw Palmar off a cliff, and a bunch of useless mason discussion. The mafia have no reason to be actively at the front of the stage because it inherently carries risk. The town is already in a natural state of chaos anyway. Thus, the mafia are the ones who are going to be slacking off. A sandroba lynch is absolutely ridiculous and the amount of support it is getting is shockingly disturbing. Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 04:26 sandroba wrote:
1) Proactinum post is the best one so far. Fuck yes I like it. Cyriandor is my top candidate for lynch if I get elected.
Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 16:34 sandroba wrote:On January 14 2012 16:31 bumatlarge wrote:On January 14 2012 16:26 sandroba wrote:
Alright people I want to get elected and no one is fucking voting for me. What do you want me to do so you would fucking vote? Tell me and I'll do it. I have plenty of time right now and I can post random useless shit if that's what get's you voting. Why ciryandor? I think I talked about this already. He's ugly and smells bad. Also protact's case was the best thing to land on this thread so far. Also I might lynch a bg instead. Who knows. No mafia digs up a case on a fellow mafia when it is dead and buried. Lets look at one of your posts about sandroba: Show nested quote +On January 16 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:On January 16 2012 06:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
@ Toadesstern:
Please explain why you find bumatlarge to be scummy.
Also, summarize your thoughts on Protactinium and sandroba while you're at it. I want to know things from you.
as promised (sry took longer because I completly forgot it  ) about sandroba:I don't like the fact that BC lynched Palmar at all. Sandroba was the guy who made BC lynch Palmar instead of whoever he wanted to lynch first. I asked BC and Sandroba to show me their pm logs, neither one did it and I don't like the coincidence of bc masoning sandroba although I have to agree that that one point probably is circular reasoning because I think it's something that makes bc scummy Sandroba's budding with Palmar (without a reason) and with BC (without giving an explanation). Also he voted BC. If you now look at what I posted about bum and BC you realize that there's a lot of mentioning each other within this circle of BC-Bum-Sandroba. I've got the feeling sandroba is trying to trick me/ us his picks and his style obviously is not helping at all. My highest priority to lynch right now would be sandroba, followed by bum. I won't support a bc lynch although I think he's leaning scum for me right now because I'm not sure about my judgement of bc yet. I'd say he's got a 30-50% of flipping red instead of true 10 out of 50. Explain how you know Sandroba made BC lynch Palmar, when he never said such a thing.
]Did it ever occur to you that the chaos was mafia made and not town made? And did you also ask yourself who was pushing the discussion? BC and sandro. The masoning buddies. So you're right it, the day was horrible. No one seemed scum, everyone was discussion. Nice place for scum to be in. Don't be fooled that it was town play which got us that.
To who suggested the lynch: This is the log of the last minutes before BC decided to lynch Palmar, decide yourself.
[/spoiler]
[14/01/2012 3:51:45 PM] Sandro Maculan: you are lynching protact 100%?
[14/01/2012 3:52:13 PM] james: not 100% no
[14/01/2012 3:53:12 PM] james: i have foolishness, palmar, protact, brownbear and wiggles
[14/01/2012 3:53:16 PM] james: on a list of possible red vets
[14/01/2012 3:53:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol
[14/01/2012 3:53:28 PM] Sandro Maculan: i want to lynch none of those
[14/01/2012 3:53:35 PM] james: most wont
[14/01/2012 3:53:41 PM] james: brownbear hasn't posted that I remember
[14/01/2012 3:53:47 PM] james: if i had to choose former mayor candidates
[14/01/2012 3:53:50 PM] james: is shoot slardar
[14/01/2012 3:53:51 PM] Sandro Maculan: bb might even get mkéd
[14/01/2012 3:53:53 PM] james: but hes so obviously not red
[14/01/2012 3:54:12 PM] james: so many vets have done
[14/01/2012 3:54:13 PM] Sandro Maculan: tbh i don't even remember reading his posts
[14/01/2012 3:54:15 PM] james: dick fuck all
[14/01/2012 4:01:44 PM] Sandro Maculan: man I'll compromise don't lynch fool or incog then you get my vote
[14/01/2012 4:04:25 PM] james: fine, ill agree to that
[14/01/2012 4:05:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: k gotta roll
[14/01/2012 4:05:54 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'd totally support palmar
[14/01/2012 4:06:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: fuck him he is scum
[14/01/2012 4:07:01 PM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 4:17:56 PM] james: off to work be back later
[12:05:56 AM] Sandro Maculan: i'm back
[12:06:01 AM] Sandro Maculan: who got lynched
[12:11:43 AM] james: palmar flipped miller
[/spoiler]
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On January 17 2012 08:20 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 08:18 rgTheSchworz wrote:@Sheth, do not think I am uninformed or dumb in any way. I play IRL mafia if that helps and some friends have gotten me into forum mafia. (The only way Schworz would know he is bussing someone is if he was mafia too).
Feel free to speculate on my supposed stupidity.Logically before playing i have read some Mafiawiki. I know what the term means.Macpo is a clear case for reasons i have mentioned.I won't switch to someone else unless people fail to vote. ##Vote: Macpo Everyone makes mistakes, I wasn't calling you dumb. I in fact state I've made the same mistake. It is speculation, so we'll see. Did you accidentally type bussing then btw? I notice you never really deny it in your post.
Learn to read. No, not at all accidental, i find it more helpful to use an agreed-upon term than a whole sentence to describe the same thing.
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United States2095 Posts
Also upon reading GGQ's filter I don't see much to defend him. Hes defended Macpo by saying hes clearly a "newbie town", but never explains why. He also wants to lynch Prot + Cyber and doesn't explain anything. I'd much rather lynch Macpo and go off of what that gives us personally, but I can definetly see the case against GGQ, I just feel the one against Macpo will provide us more information and I'm more confident he'll flip red then GGQ.
Also, for those who want to lynch Prot consider his reads on Macpo + GGQ.
+ Show Spoiler +Macpo Here we revisit Macpo. I won't restate my previous analysis. However, I think people are not seeing the subtle differences in how Macpo is different from some of the other newbies or lurkers. The key is overemphasis on inexperience to the point that he is begging to be ignored. This is a textbook case of mafia. But for all of you doubters, here is a new piece of information. Look at Macpo's 4th post here: Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 20:02 Macpo wrote:
It's getting clear that Bill Murray is the way to go.
Mr Wiggles, a good town, but he just doesn't want to be on the stage too much, so I guess the mayor role doesn't suit him very well.
BC: way too unclear and risky for me; he is trying too much stuff, going for a thousand contradictory stuff, taking back what he said and so on.
Bill has shown a lot of presence, and has made reasonable analyses, plus he is not afraid. That's enough for me up to now, I think we won't have better than that.
To those complaining about me being rational, it's getting obvious that they prefer random one line crap to argumentation. I'll answer back when they'll meet my standards.
Also, I changed my mind on Cybercheese, as he opened my eyes on the the BC case.
To bill: some people here have NOT posted yet at all!! I feel fine about lynching sandroba, as he acts quite scummy, but I suggest that if you are elected, you lynch someone who has not talked yet. statistics we'll be that it is mafia.
and compare to his first post, where he overly emphasizes his newbiness. See the difference? Macpo doesn't apologize at all in this post, and spews a bunch of opinions. Previously, he stated that "I just feel that being confident in my claims on day 1 is kind of stupid, as there is almost no rational basis for being so." Huge contrast. Its as if its a different person posting. Its pretty obvious that Macpo is getting coaching from his mafia friends. Then his next post: Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 09:13 Macpo wrote:
I haven't been able to post my scum tells last post, here they are.
Basically, I think we kind of neglect all these players, who are basically hiding. I am not saying this 100% scums; some of them are probably really not here. but I also think it's more than 20% scum in there, we should keep this in mind:
- Refallen 2 empty posts.
- Munk-E 1 empty post.
- Brownbear 4 posts, 4lines.
- d3_crescentia 3 posts 3 lines.
- igabod 4 posts 4 lines.
- rtgICEMAN 4 posts, and no clear position.
- Maxella 2 posts.
Please guys, really get into it and help town; as now you are just very embarrassingly hiding. Until you convincingly do, you are all my favorite scums tells.
Also, while going through the filters, I saw the remarkable case of Jayjay, one poster, 10%of the whole thread. and to be honest, only crap in it; far from any rational standard . This annoys me, so I put him on my scummy list. We really need to have more rational stuff to clarify things. like REALLY. Besides the fact that Macpo doesn't follow his own advice and really doesn't "get into it and help town", notice the pleading tone. I bet its a different coach this time! LOLOLOLOL GGQ Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 12:02 GGQ wrote:
havent caught up, I'm at page 57, but I skipped ahead. don't vote in Protractinium. Seriously, don't. Macpo is pretty clearly a newb town imo For not having caught up yet, GGQ has a shockingly strong opinion that Macpo is newb town. What's even more interesting is that this read is his basis for urging people not to vote me in. Why does GGQ have such a strong attachment to Macpo? He never once discusses lynch targets or inquires about who the other mayoral candidates is going to lynch. But for some reason he really wants to save Macpo. Without even considering whether or not I am otherwise a good candidate for mayor. He doesn't attempt to persuade me not to lynch Macpo, he just flat out says that I shouldn't be voted in. In short, GGQ is apathetic both about who becomes mayor and who gets lynched. But for some reason he really cares that Macpo doesn't get lynched. GGQ is also lurking hard while providing no content. Contrast to Responsibility Mafia where he is active, expresses interest in finding a good target for the lynch and gives a few detalied analyses on GMarshal and Mr. Wiggles.
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##vote Protactinium
On my phone; in short, massive slip. When the "day 1 summary" was posted by Protactinium, it suggested that there was pre-knowledge that the chaos was town-induced.
Note how Protactinium never questions that the people who pushed Palmar for lynch (WBG and other hardliners) were anything but town. It's not possible to make absolute generalizations like Protactinium is doing unless there's knowledge that those generalizations are true. That knowledge is only available to scum.
I'll post more about this shortly when I get comp access.
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On January 17 2012 08:19 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
@Lanaia + Opz
What are your thoughts on GGQ + Macpo?
@Opz were not lynching Lanaia today because of your "gut". Post what your "gut" is telling you and why.
I done posted my suspcisions,. I haven't directly quoted them, because I'm being lazy. Lanaia doesn't have many posts, click on filter. But i've done posted them, it isn't my fault you don't bother reading. Your still scum in my eyes too.
I haven't read anything from Macpo, so give me a little bit. Same for GGQ.
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United States2095 Posts
On January 17 2012 08:25 rgTheSchworz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 08:20 Liquid`Sheth wrote:On January 17 2012 08:18 rgTheSchworz wrote:@Sheth, do not think I am uninformed or dumb in any way. I play IRL mafia if that helps and some friends have gotten me into forum mafia. (The only way Schworz would know he is bussing someone is if he was mafia too).
Feel free to speculate on my supposed stupidity.Logically before playing i have read some Mafiawiki. I know what the term means.Macpo is a clear case for reasons i have mentioned.I won't switch to someone else unless people fail to vote. ##Vote: Macpo Everyone makes mistakes, I wasn't calling you dumb. I in fact state I've made the same mistake. It is speculation, so we'll see. Did you accidentally type bussing then btw? I notice you never really deny it in your post. Learn to read. No, not at all accidental, i find it more helpful to use an agreed-upon term than a whole sentence to describe the same thing.
I read that you know what the term means. I believe you've always known what the term means. I asked if you didn't mean to say that and you havn't responded to that in two posts. Its a small thing, but a definite thing. I agree that it is easy to use an agreed-upon term to describe things. Again here your saying that you believe he was bussing. You're really not convincing me you didn't scum slip. However for the sake of kieeping today about the small amount of lynch targets, lets get back on GGQ / Macpo.
I'll look through Schwortz filter a bit more closesly later on. I'm sure it will be very interesting from what I remember of his posting 
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On January 17 2012 08:17 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Protact is suspected strongly mafia to me and should be to everyone else, plus annoying as heck, example: They've been asked repeatedly, by multiple people, to post which one of them are posting. It's not hard or difficult to comply with that, and seems reasonable I believe.
I'm going to echo this. I very much agree it would be helpful, though I'm not sure if it's that common with hydras.
On January 17 2012 08:19 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
@Lanaia + Opz
What are your thoughts on GGQ + Macpo?
I think GGQ is scum. Hence why I said I'd be willing to lynch him out of the three main candidates.
Macpo has good cases against him and terrible defenses. I'm not a huge fan of his "i'm a noob" thing (nor anyone else's for that matter).
I quoted a post
+ Show Spoiler +On January 16 2012 02:19 Macpo wrote:
Now I feel my only chance is to be as transparent as possible. So here I am: my strategy was two sided.
1.I should be honest and rational (the simpler, the better), as the first thing you read in guides is that mafia was always trying to flood/spam/lack of argumentation. So I kind of spoke my mind, and especially shared my uncertainties (only liars want to appear to be certain). I tried to do some constructive stuff, at my skill level, like going through the filter and gather information on who is posting and who is not; instead of saying "=> YOU are guilty", without any kind of evidence as so many did, with the brilliant results we know. I am still not sure why I should give up this attitude, as I feel it's more constructive than lots of other stuff.
Some people say I didn't want to take responsibility, but that's precisely being responsible: not to attack without any kind of reason. Not to mention the fact that I was one of the first to vote, for Bill Murray (who so nicely now wants to kill me).
2. Also, I definitely tried to make friends so that we can back up each other in case we were under attack (like Mr Wiggles and Echelon toe); I take that from my experience of previous games where it is essential (for those knowing Junta). Maybe it's a bit clumsy, it obviously didn't work, but hey! can you even call a piece of argument against me?
But now, because of all this, I feel badly trapped!
So I beg you kindly: don't lynch me! If there is any other evidence or question I can answer to, in order to prove my innocence, just let me know.
but I have no idea why anymore. So I'm rereading and have new stuff I want to talk about.
He wants to show that he's uncertain. This isn't necessarily scum, but if he thinks only liars are certain, then the majority of people in the game would be scum, no?
He begs not to be lynched. You should NOT be begging.
He's possibly scum but I feel more strongly on the GGQ front.
Also thanks evantrees for the filter list.
Connection is really shitty right now and I'm not sure why. Refreshing has become a chore.
Also there seems to be a lot of hostility in this thread. More than feels normal.
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On January 17 2012 08:37 Liquid`Sheth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 08:25 rgTheSchworz wrote:On January 17 2012 08:20 Liquid`Sheth wrote:On January 17 2012 08:18 rgTheSchworz wrote:@Sheth, do not think I am uninformed or dumb in any way. I play IRL mafia if that helps and some friends have gotten me into forum mafia. (The only way Schworz would know he is bussing someone is if he was mafia too).
Feel free to speculate on my supposed stupidity.Logically before playing i have read some Mafiawiki. I know what the term means.Macpo is a clear case for reasons i have mentioned.I won't switch to someone else unless people fail to vote. ##Vote: Macpo Everyone makes mistakes, I wasn't calling you dumb. I in fact state I've made the same mistake. It is speculation, so we'll see. Did you accidentally type bussing then btw? I notice you never really deny it in your post. Learn to read. No, not at all accidental, i find it more helpful to use an agreed-upon term than a whole sentence to describe the same thing. I read that you know what the term means. I believe you've always known what the term means. I asked if you didn't mean to say that and you havn't responded to that in two posts. Its a small thing, but a definite thing. I agree that it is easy to use an agreed-upon term to describe things. Again here your saying that you believe he was bussing. You're really not convincing me you didn't scum slip. However for the sake of kieeping today about the small amount of lynch targets, lets get back on GGQ / Macpo. I'll look through Schwortz filter a bit more closesly later on. I'm sure it will be very interesting from what I remember of his posting
Also, please look into Chaos. We'll hopefully have a double lynch coming up VOTE NOW and take of things.
In other news: I decided to reconsider the last pages and therefore ##unvote.
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On January 17 2012 08:22 p4NDemik wrote:
Toad can you please be less ambiguous are you talking about Proact or Sandro?
sry didn't see this post earlier. Are you talking about this post?
On January 17 2012 08:19 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 08:14 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
The reasoning for why I don't want to lynch Sandro / Protact tonight is mostly because I think we have a much much better read on the others. Sandro has been a bit quiet and although he did help lynch Palmar which I dislike he has also been very decisive. Protact I feel helped cause the Vig shot on Cy and he despite switching lynch candidates he never did so for no reason. Might have tooken him a bit to explain but he has.
read the posts he where he tells us what he likes and what he does not like. Do you think that this is a townie who is trying to help by evaluating why he got the reads he has?
If that's the one you want me to make clearer I think your confusion is based on my failure to [b]-tag something:
I was talking about sandroba and thought the b tags make that clear. "edited" within my quote.
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Supersoft/BillMurray
Do you guys think a doublelynch is a good idea?
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United States13896 Posts
WBG why are you all of the sudden posting in 3rd person? That's like the most suspicious thing I've ever seen lol. Now I need to read your entire filter.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
jaj22 is replacing igabod.
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United States2095 Posts
On January 17 2012 08:34 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 08:19 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
@Lanaia + Opz
What are your thoughts on GGQ + Macpo?
@Opz were not lynching Lanaia today because of your "gut". Post what your "gut" is telling you and why. I done posted my suspcisions,. I haven't directly quoted them, because I'm being lazy. Lanaia doesn't have many posts, click on filter. But i've done posted them, it isn't my fault you don't bother reading. Your still scum in my eyes too. I haven't read anything from Macpo, so give me a little bit. Same for GGQ.
Here are some quotes about your "posted suspicions".
+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2012 08:01 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 07:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
@schworz, there are currently three serious candidates being discussed, protact, sandroba, and GGQ. That's a fine number of candiates for me. I want to lynch Lanaia. Every post is wishywashy, and that big post with probably 30 people on it was a huge attempt to appear to be doing something. Just doesn't feel right.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2012 08:17 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 08:04 Toadesstern wrote:On January 17 2012 08:01 ~OpZ~ wrote:On January 17 2012 07:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
@schworz, there are currently three serious candidates being discussed, protact, sandroba, and GGQ. That's a fine number of candiates for me. I want to lynch Lanaia. Every post is wishywashy, and that big post with probably 30 people on it was a huge attempt to appear to be doing something. Just doesn't feel right. she is that wishy washy as town. I don't think she's mafia at all unless she does that on purpose to look like her town play. I'd say the first one is more likly. I've never played with her, and regardless of it, I said I feel off. I'm trusting my gut on this one. She is mafia. Protact is suspected strongly mafia to me and should be to everyone else, plus annoying as heck, example: They've been asked repeatedly, by multiple people, to post which one of them are posting. It's not hard or difficult to comply with that, and seems reasonable I believe. Also, THEY gained a random ass following, claimed to have had given Day one direction, when they had all of 4 posts when they claimed to have given direction to the day. Seriously. That's a load of horse manure. I don't trust protact, at all even if he pointed out ciryandor. He wasn't the first to call him out and even changed his target to BC afterwards. I won't sheep after his wishes.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2012 03:03 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 02:20 Jayjay54 wrote:Hey guys, I’m back from work, so I have time to figure stuff out. First of all, GG to all the dead. May they rest in peace! WP everyone. I try to focus on the NKs, we may get information why they were shot. I’ll compare them by listing People they opposed and things they supported, mostly with quotes. May contain traces of WIFOM. I want to start with the not so sure shot people. You'll see why. LanaiaOn January 16 2012 14:10 Bill Murray wrote:
I am pretty sure I saved Lanaia from being killed last night People she opposed:Well, pretty much none (talking about before the day 2 start, she gave a pretty neutral list today). A little post against palmar, a little post about L, but quickly withdraw. Things she supported:Well, uhm. Yeah. Vote was on BC Sooo Lanaia? What? Why? She was a total Null read to nearly everybody. Some people even called her scum. Includiiing: On January 15 2012 21:52 Bill Murray wrote:
Lynch, Lynch, Lynch!:
Lanaia
Mafia a) Why the fuck would BM jail Lanaia? Because he thought she has a role? Lanaia was even confused herself. On January 16 2012 14:16 Lanaia wrote:
Bill, if that were the case, would I have been notified of being killed?
But yeah, I can confirm he did target me.
However, I have no idea why. May I ask why? This makes 0 sense to me. Care to explain BM? b) How does BM know that he saved her? Does he get notified? And why would he want that if he thinks shes scum? And why on earth would the mafia use a pretty NK to kill a pretty neutral person who even was a lynch candidate to some? Please enlighten us BM. => Don’t know what to make out of it. But I don’t believe whatsoever that the mafia used a NK on her. Which is why: Could Lanaia be mafia? You ever consider that? I have...Not just the long post today were neutral. Almost every post. But I'll be pointing that out later, I gotta do some things real quick.
You say it isn't your fault that I don't bother reading. I in fact have been reading.
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United States2095 Posts
Despite me going after Opz a bit here, today I still want us to lynch Macpo for all of the reasons before stated.
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On January 17 2012 08:45 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Despite me going after Opz a bit here, today I still want us to lynch Macpo for all of the reasons before stated.
aren't you afraid that he actually IS a newbie town player? I mean stressing to be newb may be a newb mistake afterall.
Don't get me wrong, I'd lynch him, but IMO he might flip town.
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On January 17 2012 08:04 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
@Meapak I think adding a 4th candidate in Macpo is a good idea. I'm not fine with voting Sandroba off or Protact. I need to think more about GGQ. Protact was one of the first to go after Cyr and Sandroba was as well, I don't know why these two are considered a good lynch for Day 2. Meapak I've been really happy with your play today, are you willing to go for Macpo based on how he has been posting ?
I called you out earlier for voting for protact for no reason, and then now you want to go and defend him saying he was one of the first to go after ciry. You mean until he changed to wanting to lynch BC, when Ciry was obviously more scummy? Looks to me like he was trying to bus a weaker scum. Seems kind of early to me, but go read ciry's posts, or check your inbox. He was obvious mafia.
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How many times do i have to say it, I meant it.
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United States2095 Posts
I'm not afraid of it, but there is a chance he is. I feel that from how he has changed his style so much and from the way he has posted he is very likely a newbie mafia though. And just because someone "might" flip town is never a reason not to lynch him. (I realize you say you'd lynch him).
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EPT
