EPTNaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 174
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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people. Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. | ||
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UpSiloN
Canada3 Posts
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MLMNL
Netherlands14 Posts
I 100% disagree with people here flaming Mr. Chae for this decision. He felt he had to take a stand (understandably), and he did. I'd rather have better quality games in the future then one extra season with one extra foreigner. Sure, it's sad it happened, but who are we to flame someone who has been doing a lot for SC2 esports in the past. | ||
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
Who wins here? Naniwa surely doesn't. GOM is getting a ton of shit. Yea they're getting a couple of "good job"s and "I'm going to subscribe now!", but lets be real. The people that are going to subscribe to GOM because of this incident have probably subscribed before or were planning to anyway. I'd be willing to bet that the amount of subscribers they are losing is far greater. In addition this just comes off as bad press all around. This isn't really something you want to keep in the headlines. So then you have to ask yourself, if GOM is losing out on this, and Naniwa is losing out on this, what is the point? I guess Idra wins? | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:28 purpose wrote: What if Nestea had 7pooled and Naniwa had won the game? What if Naniwa had said after the game that he thougth nestea would 6 or 7 pooled and decided that a probe rush could have countered it. this rule is so stupied that its just patetic. How are they ever going to apply this for future situations? Probe rush doesn't counter 6 pool, and it doesn't counter 7 pool. It's the weakest tactic imaginable. If you're 6 pooling when probes arrive, you either run away with your drones until lings pop, or you cancel the pool and build more drones. The probes have 0 chance. | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:14 .Sic. wrote: "During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours" Gom stepped over the boundaries by deciding that they have the right to determine what play is "offensive to opponents/audience" or not. What exactly about the ensuing furore makes you think GOM got that call wrong? I've read a good few of the 100+ pages of this thread and without exception those opposed to GOM's decision have focused on only a small part of the big picture. Sure, the match didn't matter as far as Naniwa's chances in the competition were concerned. So if that's all you decide to care about, his decision was entirely reasonable. But professional sport is not about pandering to one individual. In professional sport, everyone is in it together: players, spectators, organisers, officials - everyone. It only works if we all pull together. Are victory ceremonies or in-game victory BM (to which this has been compared) against the spirit of the sport? No. Fans love that stuff; it foments rivalries, increase the spectacle. Obviously there is a point where they would become detrimental (literally pissing into your opponent's cubicle for instance), but right now, no. Would Nestea going on tilt and 6-pooling in that same game be against the spirit of the sport? No. A 6-pool is a genuine, if desperate, attempt to win. It would at least show he cared. What Naniwa did, on the other hand, was entirely selfish. He denied Nestea a chance to save face by earning a win, made his sponsors look stupid after they hyped the game, used the match as a platform to humiliate the organisers for their choice of format - a format he signed up for by choosing to take part, disappointed the fans who stayed up to watch - in short, he made it perfectly clear that the only thing he gave a damn about was himself. If you think 'SC2-pro' is just a kind of unofficial league above GM, you're woefully mistaken. Doing anything professionally carries obligations over and above those attached to a recreational activity, because it's no longer just about you. It's about you and the people paying you. You can cook? Great! You want to be a chef? Better start adhering to health and safety and hygiene standards, and getting food out on time and on budget. You can take nice photos? Great! Want to be a wedding photographer? Then you'll be wanting insurance and a network of other pros in case you're ill on the day. You'll be multiply-RAIDing your hard drives, scouting venues, honing your interpersonal and organisational skills so that the wedding party have a great time and great pictures to take away and don't have to spend all day away from their guests. You can play SC2 well? Great! You want to be a pro-gamer? You want a sponsor to pay you and ferry you around from tournament to tournament? You want fans who'll tune in and maybe buy the products you endorse? Then you act like you give a shit, 100% of the time. That's part of the job. ___________________________________________________________________________________ Yeeej completely killed the Quote thingy.  Just reposting this so you can stop hating and start thinking (hating GOM for acting perfectly reasonable that is) | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:26 The_LiNk wrote: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/64582 Posted on the 13th of April 2011. Unless time goes backwards... Um.. the rule mentioned in the OP is not actually in the link you provided.. | ||
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pOtentiaLeaver
Australia60 Posts
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dolvlo
United States99 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:29 Tobberoth wrote: Du är ju korkad, aldrig hört talas om fotboll? Almost all tournaments have meaningless games. Do they? Can you name one meaningless game from MLG? From Dreamhack? Can you name one meaningless game from the offline IPL3 event? You're full of shit. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Fwmeh
1286 Posts
Either the game is such that it is interesting to watch when played at a high level, or it is not, you cannot make artificial rules about what is a "correct" play, pleasing for the audience. That must come from the game design, and deciding that it is illegal to attack with workers is just not reasonable. And again, to those bringing up that he didn't care, so you would have been happy if he had "lied" to you? Is that what people want. In the end, Idra already said all that needs to be said with regard to avoiding such situations: If you want players to "care" about the matches, make sure they mean something. | ||
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anomalopidae
Slovenia549 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:26 NHY wrote: Kespa's rules were pretty arbitrary. GOM didn't say Naniwa's play style is offensive. GOM didn't kick Naniwa's out of any league. Naniwa was considered for Code S, as in not finalized but almost certain. Naniwa was not in GSL or Code S. So he did not earn his Code S spot as best non Code S performer at MLG Providence? I'm pretty sure he did, unless GOM will back out of their deal with MLG where that's stated pretty clearly . http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291 Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players. If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player. All travel and accommodation expenses for these players will be provided by the GSL. | ||
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Gekks
United States5 Posts
I don't know why people think that its okay to throw a match in such a blatant way when you are getting PAID to play it out. | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:29 Rikiya wrote: I totally understand the decision made by GOM and i will continue to support them. What Naniwa did may be small to foreigners but this is very very rude to do in Korea. So what? It's GLOBAL star league, not Korean star league | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:29 CrugerDK wrote: i think the principle of GOM stepping in and deeming a certain tactic "unworthy" of their tournament is very troubling. Once you cross that barrier, who knows what early plays will be banned. Soon the meta game of the GSL will have completely changed because certain early plays will no longer need to be considered... A probe rush is unwinnable no matter how much micro you use, if you play against a semi-competent Gold leaguer. Also the fact that Naniwa wasn't even using his keyboard shows you how much he actually cared. There is no question that Naniwa intentionally decided to throw the game because he didn't want to play it. | ||
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St00r
Sweden4 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:29 Tobberoth wrote: Du är ju korkad, aldrig hört talas om fotboll? Almost all tournaments have meaningless games. Skönt att du snackar om en lagsport. Det är som att säga att ett lag skulle sätta upp med ett A-lag i en meningslös match. Du är ju korkad! | ||
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AJTeal
United States1 Post
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Sh1bby
Germany711 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:28 purpose wrote: What if Nestea had 7pooled and Naniwa had won the game? What if Naniwa had said after the game that he thougth nestea would 6 or 7 pooled and decided that a probe rush could have countered it. this rule is so stupied that its just patetic. How are they ever going to apply this for future situations? Please watch the game, because you clearly don´t know how Naniwa behaved. He used only one hand and it was obvious that he didn´t want to play this game. | ||
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creepcolony
Germany362 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:28 Xax wrote: I still can't believe people base their opinion on something that was translated by a 3rd party. Do you guys REALLY believe that Mr Chae chose those words? REALLY? Well if i cant get a correct korean - english translation here on TL where in the world would i get one ? Seriously. Naniwa and Mr. Chae should just stream a fight between them. After they beat the shit out of each other they both shake hands and its done. | ||
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NHY
1013 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:31 anomalopidae wrote: So he did not earn his Code S spot as best non Code S performer at MLG Providence? I'm pretty sure he did, unless GOM will back out of their deal with MLG where that's stated pretty clearly . No. Read MLG-GSL exchange rule. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10569 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:24 Vardant wrote: Well, they could have told him before the match, not after. I would have no problem with this, if that happened. Every peson with half a brain would assume that you have to play "hard" in a televised tournament game, no matter if the game itself matters anymore. No person with the slgihtest bit of respect for everyone else involved would probersuh and take his hand off the keyboard jsut to lose asap. | ||
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Radook
Sweden326 Posts
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