Want to program video games? - Page 4

On November 20 2011 06:54 Inori wrote:
Recently I keep hearing from various sources that game dev is worst position a programmer can go to in terms of work stress. You're forced to work hard for months, constantly doing overtime (even unpaid) because of deadlines and etc. Then you finish it, have a little party and the cycle begins again with next title.

Is this in any way true?

On December 02 2011 17:16 Hairy wrote:
I went into programming, and was in the games industry for a whopping 18 months. My advice personally to anyone wanting to become a "game designer" is... to stop. Most games DESIGN degrees are actually a sham, and are not teaching the skills that games development studios actually want - make sure your degree course is not one of those. And do you actually know what a game DESIGN job is?

How does the menu flow work?
What menus will there be?
What button presses do what?
What button hints will we show on the screen?
What happens when we press those buttons?
What happens if he presses different buttons?
What help text should we display?
When should that help text appear?
Will that help text have a delay in appearing? How big should that delay be?
Will that help text work ok in different languages?
Are any of the game UI elements too close to the edge of the screen? (nintendo enforced)

Game DESIGN involves solving ALL those questions, and thousands and thousands more, and extensively documenting it. You don't do the art - the art is done by artists. You don't actually make it happen, as that is done by the programmers. You don't think of and make the cool sounds or music, as that is done by the music guys. Your job is to write a document. Every_SINGLE_DETAIL of how EVERYTHING works must be documented exactly. That is what game design is. Very little of it is thinking up what cool weapons you use etc. In fact, you'll be lucky if you have much choice in the matter - a lot of the time you'll be designing a game that fits what the publisher needs/wants (the publisher is the company funding the work on your game), and you will have a strict budget you need to stick to (cool ideas usually take time (and therefore money) to implement).

I would also warn that I don't think you'll ever get a job out of university with a game 'designer' degree. Very small indie games companies require someone else already in the team (a programmer/artist) to take on the responsibilities of that role - they can't afford to pay someone just to design. Big companies have the money to hire someone with proven skill and experience, OR they can take someone from their team that they know and trust and have them do the role instead. Why would you hire someone fresh out of university, with no experience or proven track record to do one of the most important jobs?

If you want in the games industry, don't aim for games design. Do music, or art, or programming (incidentally, do C++, not C). You can move onto games designer later after you've gained experience in the industry.



Yes. Overtime is almost always unpaid, and it is expected. It is not constant, but you WILL have to do overtime. At my job I did 4 weeks where I was in the office will 9 - 10pm at night, and I didn't see a penny of extra cash. You are constantly working towards the next deadline, and often it is a pretty intense working environment.

I don't intend to dissuade people TOO much - there IS still fun to be had. But, realistically, only go into it if you absolutely adore MAKING games (making is very different from playing), and you intend to put in the work required. Only the most dedicated are going to actually make it into the industry, and only the most passionate of those are going to stay there. The games industry is incredibly competitive, so you need to be fantastic. Go and learn some programming like in the opening post in your free time. Go and learn MORE programming. Do projects off your own back, in your own time. If this is sounding too much like hard work... it probably is. Because there are people out there who have the passion to spend almost all of their free time just programming, improving their craft, and practicing to get better. If you can't be at least as good as them you're going to find it difficult.

Become a hobbyist game programmer, and if you still ADORE it then go for it. If you just like games, and think working on games will be cool... you need to rethink.

On December 02 2011 17:26 leperphilliac wrote:
Damn, this post is sobering. Just wondering, though, isn't unpaid overtime highly illegal?

On December 02 2011 17:59 skipgamer wrote:
I like this blog post, except for the word hobbyist in the first sentence...

A beginner hobbyist game programmer should not bother learning C, it is not worth the time, and I'd be surprised to hear a professional recommend it either. Better off focusing on learning a language/engine/SDK that has the tools and meets the requirements of whatever type of game you're trying to make.

Sure it may not exactly be "programming" in the eyes of professionals, but there is a big difference between wanting to be a professional game programmer, and wanting to make games as a hobby. You can (and have to) get your hands dirty with coding regardless of what language/engine/SDK you choose if you are going it alone.


6 years as a hobbyist programmer/game developer with the UT2k4 engine (unrealscript), Source engine(c++), Java, Actionscript and the UnrealEngine(unrealscript+actionscript) have taught me this.

If I started by learning C, I wouldn't have had anywhere near the amount of experience I've had... That being said, I've never actually taken a project to completion (the most I could say I have created is a proof of concept), but that's what being a hobbyist is all about right? It's the journey, not the destination.

On December 02 2011 18:36 Mirosuu wrote:
Another question is why do you code your games in a console window? Aren't they rather limited in scope compared to a window created as part of a GUI?

On December 02 2011 18:41 Ramuh wrote:


I think that is the point

On December 02 2011 18:04 Osmoses wrote:
Writing games in the windows console can be fun, but I don't think it teaches you very much about how to do anything else. Knowing memory management is well and good, but modern coding is all about abstraction. I hardly think building a new game engine from scratch is common practice anywhere these days. Why reinvent the wheel when you can just build onto an existing, proven library?

As has been already said, game designing is a collaborative effort outside indie studios, and you generally have very little influence yourself. And if you want to make your game, you can't spend your time writing low level memory management code, you'll never see anything close to a finished product. Swallow your pride and use someone else's code, use an API or a finished engine. Your game doesn't need to be cutting edge, minecraft looks like shit but it's still a great game.

If you want to make a game and see some real results before you die, try Cocos2D. There are 3D APIs as well, but I haven't tried any.


Lol you beat me to it :p

On December 02 2011 19:33 Calvin[Deck] wrote:



I am a professional programmer, and i have the complete opposite opinion. You have to start with the complete basic to get really good at something.

If you use flash+actionscript, or some other tool/API, yes you can have a lot if fun, and you will get faster to doing something.

But then you will hit a wall, where you want to do something that the tool does not easily provide. And by that point you will need the basic skills of programming, to extend the API you are using, instead of being limited by it.

I am not saying that you should not use some high level API, but eventually you need to get into really nasty technical details about some technology, if you have some need in your game, that are pushing the technology a bit.

That is why making simple games in ASCII art can improve your skills in programming a lot.

On December 02 2011 19:33 Calvin[Deck] wrote:



I am a professional programmer, and i have the complete opposite opinion. You have to start with the complete basic to get really good at something.

If you use flash+actionscript, or some other tool/API, yes you can have a lot if fun, and you will get faster to doing something.

But then you will hit a wall, where you want to do something that the tool does not easily provide. And by that point you will need the basic skills of programming, to extend the API you are using, instead of being limited by it.

I am not saying that you should not use some high level API, but eventually you need to get into really nasty technical details about some technology, if you have some need in your game, that are pushing the technology a bit.

That is why making simple games in ASCII art can improve your skills in programming a lot.

On November 17 2011 05:56 Lysenko wrote:


At first I scratched my head, then I realized that like any good C programmer you started at an index of 0.

On November 17 2011 05:40 CecilSunkure wrote:

I've worked professionally at a game development studio working on Age of Empires Online, and the designers there were actually critical. Basically, as a development studio gets larger in numbers of employees, the studio can tackle larger projects. The larger the studio, the larger their projects are. In order for this to work, each employee added to the company makes the employees of the company more and more specialized. In smaller studios, especially, indi developers, people can be a generalist; they can program, do art, design, production all at once. But in a highly specialized position, you do a more narrow set of jobs but you do them very very well.

Designers are needed and in my opinion especially critical for larger projects. There are different sections of game design, however. At GPG (gas powered games) I worked mostly with a single designer focused on Player vs Player experience - we balanced the multiplayer game. There were other level designers, lead designers, designers that work for the publisher as a liaison, and concept artists (which sorta spill into design). So to answer your question honestly, I feel that there is a strong need in the industry for highly skilled and valuable designers, but there is a lot less demand for entry-level design positions. Because of this designers here at DigiPen study design alongside with something else. Here you can be a designer with a heavy programming background, or heavy art-focused background. It's sort of funny, the CS focused design degree here is basically identical to the dedicated CS degree for the first year. This makes you more versatile and competent as a designer overall.

Hope that helps!