|
Here we go again. This weekend is about good games and good fun. Don't rain on that parade. Play nice guys. Here's the very standard and friendly:
- NO Balance Whine.
- NO Player Bashing.
- NO Caster Bashing.
- NO BM whatsoever.
Breaking these rules (from pg 166 forward) will be met with severe punishment. |
Haha I love how Naniwa is public enemy #1 and dethrones Idra from King of BM.
He really has that villain side glance with that insidious smile and not to mention that walk.
|
HOLY SHIT LEENOCK!
Awesome! GG!!!!
|
On November 21 2011 13:00 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:50 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:47 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:43 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:38 Jiddra wrote:On November 21 2011 12:36 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:28 Casablancas wrote:On November 21 2011 12:25 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:17 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:14 jyLee wrote:
[quote]
So now that he apologised its all good, lol. He's bm and hes proven it multiple times at this mlg. Maybe you didnt catch him trashing MLG during a game either. Dude has zero class and nobody can blame fans for booing him. Apologised for the miscommunication. Because that's what it was; he didn't apologise for calling Professor Tea an idiot, he apologised for appearing to when he really didn't mean to. I saw him calling MLG a joke tournament. As I pointed out, Idra has done the same and worse and he still gets some of the loudest support. So now your just crying about why Naniwa has no friends when Idra has so many. I just cannot fathom why anyone would be angry at the fans for booing an unlikable person. Real mature. Immature for saying people shouldnt boo at a player who just accomplished maybe the best result a foreigner have ever done? No immature for being mad at fans for booing. Fans can boo whoever the hell they please and who can blame them for booing Naniwa after his actions. Also maybe you should check your facts before claiming Naniwa had the best result a foreigner had. Pretty sure Huk WINNING mlg would be a better pick lol. And we can boo whatever crowd we want for booing. Silly how this arguemnt can go round and round... No you have no reason to be upset. Why are you so mad that people dont like Naniwa. Last time I checked he hasnt proven himself with a GSL championship or MLG championship and bms worse than Idra. When was the last time he bmed? He called MLG a joke tournament out of frustration, nothing that hasn't happened before, and his temper is one of his flaws. He claims he never meant to disrespect Nestea, and as far as I can see he didn't. So when has he bmed since the days of old Naniwa who'd cheese every game, which was ages ago? As for proving himself...god damn man are you just biased against the guy? Over the last 3 days he beat MVP, Nestea, Nestea again, Huk, and DRG. Yeah he has no resul-OH WAIT he just took 2nd in the most stacked MLG ever. It was only about an hour ago, maybe you can recall it. And he has won an MLG. Thats a lot of excuses. He hasnt won anything, only thing he's proven is that he's good. The MLG he won was with zero koreans attending so yeah it was pretty much a joke. I'm not biased, its clear you are a raging Naniwa fanboy though. Setting aside that he won the MLG Global Invitational two days ago, the only thing he's proven is he's good? What the FUCK else is there to prove? What the fuck are you even saying? You are biased. I am, indeed, a Naniwa fan, well spotted. A very good night to you.
Why are you not banned yet? Its like you dont even bother reading.
|
I don't play zerg but I always hear zerg is supposed to play reactively, I'd say leenock did it right in that case. :p
|
On November 21 2011 12:56 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:52 Defacer wrote:
I just wanted to add that I thought it was a great finals, that you can only appreciate in the context of the whole tournament.
Naniwa looked like he had Zerg solved, but thankfully Leenock solved Naniwa. They both had brilliant runs and deserve a lot of credit. Did it look to anyone else like Leenock was not fully confident in his zvp? He's good, don't get me wrong, but his builds seemed designed to net him early advantages riskily. Did anyone think that maybe he was worried about an even macro game? Not to take anything away from him. It obviously worked. But I would only question whether he's capable of adapting against other tosses.
The way I see it, Leenock did the only thing that all the other Zerg's didn't have the nerve to do. Naniwa's two-base army compositions were so strong, and to give him a mid-game advantage would pretty much keep a macro game from ever developing -- Naniwa was consistently applying pressure to his zerg opponents third's, while doing sick phoenix and warp prism harass in the mains.
Basically, Naniwa is too good to allow him to get an easy expansion and solid mid-game army.
I'm sure other zerg players like Nestea recognized how risky Naniwa's fast expand actually was, but weren't willing to deviate far enough from standard play to capitalize.
|
On November 21 2011 13:02 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:54 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:36 jj33 wrote:Also, the top korean players like flash etc aren't the top because they just play alot, they are talented.
Playing alot is a GIVEN. What separates a good pro from the cream of the crop like bisu/flash/Jaedong is their talent.
So no it's not just training. If it's just mass training, why don't you go and do it? Since you hate koreans why don't you go beat them? It's near proven that experts are trained and not born. Amount of training is only a factor, more important is quality of training. Koreans aren't genetically better, and it's odd that you'd claim that absolutely without evidence. Case in point; a married couple of scientists raised their 3 daughters to play chess to try and prove that men weren't automatically better at the game; I believe all 3 girls were grandmasters at a young age. bullcrap. Talent is very real. some people are just way more naturally talented than others. everybody is built differently. Michael Jordan is the greatest bball player of all time because not only did he work hard, but he was EXTREMELY talented. can't believe there are people out that actually believe talent isn't real. Also WHERE DID I SAY KOREANS ARE GENETICALLY SUPERIOR? I said jaedong/flash/bisu are extremely talented and they are. I name those three, because they are the best bw players of all time. has nothing to do with race.
You have nothing to support your assertions, though. You are simply repeating them.
|
On November 21 2011 13:00 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:50 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:47 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:43 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:38 Jiddra wrote:On November 21 2011 12:36 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:28 Casablancas wrote:On November 21 2011 12:25 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:17 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:14 jyLee wrote:
[quote]
So now that he apologised its all good, lol. He's bm and hes proven it multiple times at this mlg. Maybe you didnt catch him trashing MLG during a game either. Dude has zero class and nobody can blame fans for booing him. Apologised for the miscommunication. Because that's what it was; he didn't apologise for calling Professor Tea an idiot, he apologised for appearing to when he really didn't mean to. I saw him calling MLG a joke tournament. As I pointed out, Idra has done the same and worse and he still gets some of the loudest support. So now your just crying about why Naniwa has no friends when Idra has so many. I just cannot fathom why anyone would be angry at the fans for booing an unlikable person. Real mature. Immature for saying people shouldnt boo at a player who just accomplished maybe the best result a foreigner have ever done? No immature for being mad at fans for booing. Fans can boo whoever the hell they please and who can blame them for booing Naniwa after his actions. Also maybe you should check your facts before claiming Naniwa had the best result a foreigner had. Pretty sure Huk WINNING mlg would be a better pick lol. And we can boo whatever crowd we want for booing. Silly how this arguemnt can go round and round... No you have no reason to be upset. Why are you so mad that people dont like Naniwa. Last time I checked he hasnt proven himself with a GSL championship or MLG championship and bms worse than Idra. When was the last time he bmed? He called MLG a joke tournament out of frustration, nothing that hasn't happened before, and his temper is one of his flaws. He claims he never meant to disrespect Nestea, and as far as I can see he didn't. So when has he bmed since the days of old Naniwa who'd cheese every game, which was ages ago? As for proving himself...god damn man are you just biased against the guy? Over the last 3 days he beat MVP, Nestea, Nestea again, Huk, and DRG. Yeah he has no resul-OH WAIT he just took 2nd in the most stacked MLG ever. It was only about an hour ago, maybe you can recall it. And he has won an MLG. Thats a lot of excuses. He hasnt won anything, only thing he's proven is that he's good. The MLG he won was with zero koreans attending so yeah it was pretty much a joke. I'm not biased, its clear you are a raging Naniwa fanboy though. Setting aside that he won the MLG Global Invitational two days ago, the only thing he's proven is he's good? What the FUCK else is there to prove? What the fuck are you even saying? You are biased. I am, indeed, a Naniwa fan, well spotted. You are also another one of those annoying kids who thinks that 'results' are the be all and end all. They are not. You don't need to win the tournament to prove yourself when you beat 5 of the undisputed best players in the world, back to back. A very good night to you.
Jesus dude just stop replying. There's no circus without a crowd.
|
On November 21 2011 12:59 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:56 DamageControL wrote:On November 21 2011 12:52 Defacer wrote:
I just wanted to add that I thought it was a great finals, that you can only appreciate in the context of the whole tournament.
Naniwa looked like he had Zerg solved, but thankfully Leenock solved Naniwa. They both had brilliant runs and deserve a lot of credit. Did it look to anyone else like Leenock was not fully confident in his zvp? He's good, don't get me wrong, but his builds seemed designed to net him early advantages riskily. Did anyone think that maybe he was worried about an even macro game? Not to take anything away from him. It obviously worked. But I would only question whether he's capable of adapting against other tosses. Probably he is, his builds were pretty obviously reactive to the fact that nani had been FFEing against every zerg every single time and didn't seem like he was doing anything else any time soon. Leenock historically hasn't had very good ZvP but it has been improving a lot as of late. I think he just metagamed Nani terribly ad punished him for being so inflexible. If you look closely, most of the games Leenock wasn't blindly going for the Roach/ling pressure, he was going for a standard speedling expand, but when he saw the FFE he just went for the pressure, since it's much better against FFE than speedling expand.
Perhaps you are correct. Although that seven pool game was kind of blind, and I believe there was one other where it was apparent he was one basing pretty early on. I will have to watch further, but he really did make Nani look rather silly for FFE every game, didn't he?
|
On November 21 2011 13:03 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:56 DamageControL wrote:On November 21 2011 12:52 Defacer wrote:
I just wanted to add that I thought it was a great finals, that you can only appreciate in the context of the whole tournament.
Naniwa looked like he had Zerg solved, but thankfully Leenock solved Naniwa. They both had brilliant runs and deserve a lot of credit. Did it look to anyone else like Leenock was not fully confident in his zvp? He's good, don't get me wrong, but his builds seemed designed to net him early advantages riskily. Did anyone think that maybe he was worried about an even macro game? Not to take anything away from him. It obviously worked. But I would only question whether he's capable of adapting against other tosses. The way I see it, Leenock did the only thing that all the other Zerg's didn't have the nerve to do. Naniwa's two-base army compositions were so strong, and to give him a mid-game advantage would pretty much keep a macro game from ever developing -- Naniwa was consistently applying pressure to his zerg opponents third's, while doing sick phoenix and warp prism harass in the mains. Basically, Naniwa is too good to allow him to get an easy expansion and solid mid-game army. I'm sure other zerg players like Nestea recognized how risky Naniwa's fast expand actually was, but weren't willing to deviate far enough from standard play to capitalize.
Leenock owned Huk in Code S the same way. See FE? Make them units.
|
On November 21 2011 12:47 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:35 Wallstreet11 wrote:On November 21 2011 12:07 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 12:05 quancer wrote:On November 21 2011 11:57 Wallstreet11 wrote:
Naniwa for pres!
Him and Huk shows that koreans are not special and that foreigners with the same training partners/schedules can beat any of the top koreans. Then we have the master mind Stephano who is just a natural born killer.
All this flak for not kissing everyones ass is so sad. Naniwa is just speaking his mind. I bet all the koreans there gave Leenock tips of how to beat Naniwas usual build cause all koreans think so highly of themselves(DRG wasn´t even rooting for his teammate)...
I recall Idra saying that the koreans were hypocrites(spelling) and that they were at least as BM as himself except for when the public were watching... This makes it even more disgusting when people are booing Naniwa for not even being that BM. Get this nationalistic, borderline racist, shit out of here. People like you make the world suck. He's definitely racist. where does he even get that part where "koreans think so highly of themselves?" I know exactly where, racists like him when the target people he does not like win, he has to find ways to antagonize them. this kid is pathetic Koreans don't have problems with foreigners doing well. Oh wake up. That´s why all the korean teams collectively whine when foreign organisations pick up good korean players? You don´t think that this elitist approach has any value to them? That the brand of "capital of E-sport" doesn´t lead to big revenues for the nation? MUCH hangs on them being seen as the E-sport nation. I guess you also can´t say that Americans also generally holds themselves very high cause they have such a big influence in the world through economic, political and military power? I think the korean top are elitist and that they generally don´t like foreigners showing them up... Ego is necessary and it is an effective motivational force, but that means it is so much more fun when their illusion gets a crack(schadenfreud). As I said I love to root for the underdogs in this case and the consensus is that the koreans are the top dogs atm. Simple as that. Naive people like you who only believes what they see on the very surface are never gonna get ahead in life. I think this deserves to be the most idiotic thing I have ever read on TL. As delusional as possible yet calling the others who actually follow the scene "naive"....just wow guess what, you have to earn the "captial of esport" title, that's where the good players are trained and where the ones who want to be good go. It's not hanging on, they have earned it. SCBW IS their national pride game, NOT sc2. Where did you get this SC2 is their precious game, I have no idea.
Wow where should I even start...
First of all. When the SCBW pros makes the transition. Is it still not gonna be a pride thing in your eyes?
Secondly. Do you buy all what for example commercials say also?... On the outside all koreans are mannered and people rage on those who speak their mind or shows any negative emotions. When you watch streams here on TL when foreigners play koreans BM is pretty common. Idra who is one of those who speaks freely has said many times that the korean scene is so cuddly and mannered on the surface but that there are much BM in reality. I mean come on, OF COURSE they have huge pride and ego when it comes to SC2. The original game pretty much was 99% korean dominated... It´s natural that they think that SC2 is their territory as well. This is why I see them as the top dogs and I think the community in general regards them as that... which makes beating them even more fun. The greater the climb... The bigger the fall.
Another example: Why do you think such a big part of the world dislikes USA? Do you think it is because they literally have been mugged by an actual american or that it has to do with their attitude and how they see themselves?
|
On November 21 2011 13:03 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:56 DamageControL wrote:On November 21 2011 12:52 Defacer wrote:
I just wanted to add that I thought it was a great finals, that you can only appreciate in the context of the whole tournament.
Naniwa looked like he had Zerg solved, but thankfully Leenock solved Naniwa. They both had brilliant runs and deserve a lot of credit. Did it look to anyone else like Leenock was not fully confident in his zvp? He's good, don't get me wrong, but his builds seemed designed to net him early advantages riskily. Did anyone think that maybe he was worried about an even macro game? Not to take anything away from him. It obviously worked. But I would only question whether he's capable of adapting against other tosses. The way I see it, Leenock did the only thing that all the other Zerg's didn't have the nerve to do. Naniwa's two-base army compositions were so strong, and to give him a mid-game advantage would pretty much keep a macro game from ever developing -- Naniwa was consistently applying pressure to his zerg opponents third's, while doing sick phoenix and warp prism harass in the mains. Basically, Naniwa is too good to allow him to get an easy expansion and solid mid-game army. I'm sure other zerg players like Nestea recognized how risky Naniwa's fast expand actually was, but weren't willing to deviate far enough from standard play to capitalize.
Also the fact that leenock has some of the most crisp and active micro I've ever seen. I used to think DRG early game micro was insane, then leenock just owns him - badly. TBH, I don't think Nestea has that same confidence Leenock does in pulling that kind of stuff off.
|
On November 21 2011 13:02 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:54 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:36 jj33 wrote:Also, the top korean players like flash etc aren't the top because they just play alot, they are talented.
Playing alot is a GIVEN. What separates a good pro from the cream of the crop like bisu/flash/Jaedong is their talent.
So no it's not just training. If it's just mass training, why don't you go and do it? Since you hate koreans why don't you go beat them? It's near proven that experts are trained and not born. Amount of training is only a factor, more important is quality of training. Koreans aren't genetically better, and it's odd that you'd claim that absolutely without evidence. Case in point; a married couple of scientists raised their 3 daughters to play chess to try and prove that men weren't automatically better at the game; I believe all 3 girls were grandmasters at a young age. bullcrap. Talent is very real. some people are just way more naturally talented than others. everybody is built differently. Michael Jordan is the greatest bball player of all time because not only did he work hard, but he was EXTREMELY talented. can't believe there are people out that actually believe talent isn't real. Also WHERE DID I SAY KOREANS ARE GENETICALLY SUPERIOR? I said jaedong/flash/bisu are extremely talented and they are. I name those three, because they are the best bw players of all time. has nothing to do with race.
I agree. BW players like JD, Flash, Bisu are talented AND hard working. That's why they consistently place at the top with similar training schedules with many teammates.
A few players being talented doesn't mean a whole nation is somehow genetically superior. There could be just as many talented players at Flash's level in North America. But guess what? There's ISN'T a infrastructure here to discover those talents! Talented Player X isn't going to dominate in BW if he doesn't even train in it or play it.
|
On November 21 2011 13:03 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 13:02 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 12:54 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:36 jj33 wrote:Also, the top korean players like flash etc aren't the top because they just play alot, they are talented.
Playing alot is a GIVEN. What separates a good pro from the cream of the crop like bisu/flash/Jaedong is their talent.
So no it's not just training. If it's just mass training, why don't you go and do it? Since you hate koreans why don't you go beat them? It's near proven that experts are trained and not born. Amount of training is only a factor, more important is quality of training. Koreans aren't genetically better, and it's odd that you'd claim that absolutely without evidence. Case in point; a married couple of scientists raised their 3 daughters to play chess to try and prove that men weren't automatically better at the game; I believe all 3 girls were grandmasters at a young age. bullcrap. Talent is very real. some people are just way more naturally talented than others. everybody is built differently. Michael Jordan is the greatest bball player of all time because not only did he work hard, but he was EXTREMELY talented. can't believe there are people out that actually believe talent isn't real. Also WHERE DID I SAY KOREANS ARE GENETICALLY SUPERIOR? I said jaedong/flash/bisu are extremely talented and they are. I name those three, because they are the best bw players of all time. has nothing to do with race. You have nothing to support your assertions, though. You are simply repeating them.
support what? You haven't supported anything.
If you really believe talent is not real, haha I have nothing to say then.
Nice try at getting away from answering as you even accused me of saying Koreans are genetically superior, when I never said that.
Talent is real. get over it.
|
On November 21 2011 13:02 jyLee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 13:00 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:50 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:47 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:43 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:38 Jiddra wrote:On November 21 2011 12:36 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:28 Casablancas wrote:On November 21 2011 12:25 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:17 The KY wrote:
[quote]
Apologised for the miscommunication. Because that's what it was; he didn't apologise for calling Professor Tea an idiot, he apologised for appearing to when he really didn't mean to.
I saw him calling MLG a joke tournament. As I pointed out, Idra has done the same and worse and he still gets some of the loudest support. So now your just crying about why Naniwa has no friends when Idra has so many. I just cannot fathom why anyone would be angry at the fans for booing an unlikable person. Real mature. Immature for saying people shouldnt boo at a player who just accomplished maybe the best result a foreigner have ever done? No immature for being mad at fans for booing. Fans can boo whoever the hell they please and who can blame them for booing Naniwa after his actions. Also maybe you should check your facts before claiming Naniwa had the best result a foreigner had. Pretty sure Huk WINNING mlg would be a better pick lol. And we can boo whatever crowd we want for booing. Silly how this arguemnt can go round and round... No you have no reason to be upset. Why are you so mad that people dont like Naniwa. Last time I checked he hasnt proven himself with a GSL championship or MLG championship and bms worse than Idra. When was the last time he bmed? He called MLG a joke tournament out of frustration, nothing that hasn't happened before, and his temper is one of his flaws. He claims he never meant to disrespect Nestea, and as far as I can see he didn't. So when has he bmed since the days of old Naniwa who'd cheese every game, which was ages ago? As for proving himself...god damn man are you just biased against the guy? Over the last 3 days he beat MVP, Nestea, Nestea again, Huk, and DRG. Yeah he has no resul-OH WAIT he just took 2nd in the most stacked MLG ever. It was only about an hour ago, maybe you can recall it. And he has won an MLG. Thats a lot of excuses. He hasnt won anything, only thing he's proven is that he's good. The MLG he won was with zero koreans attending so yeah it was pretty much a joke. I'm not biased, its clear you are a raging Naniwa fanboy though. Setting aside that he won the MLG Global Invitational two days ago, the only thing he's proven is he's good? What the FUCK else is there to prove? What the fuck are you even saying? You are biased. I am, indeed, a Naniwa fan, well spotted. A very good night to you. Why are you not banned yet? Its like you dont even bother reading.
What he's done to distinguish himself from players like HuK or Idra is defeating the very best: MMA and Nestea. You can argue why those achievements are not meaningful, but he did it in an offline tournament. So yeah. HuK also won a tournament (MLG) and is also in contention, but he finished much lower in the tournament that you are degrading Nani for "only" placing second in.
|
On November 21 2011 13:06 Quiescence wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 13:02 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 12:54 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:36 jj33 wrote:Also, the top korean players like flash etc aren't the top because they just play alot, they are talented.
Playing alot is a GIVEN. What separates a good pro from the cream of the crop like bisu/flash/Jaedong is their talent.
So no it's not just training. If it's just mass training, why don't you go and do it? Since you hate koreans why don't you go beat them? It's near proven that experts are trained and not born. Amount of training is only a factor, more important is quality of training. Koreans aren't genetically better, and it's odd that you'd claim that absolutely without evidence. Case in point; a married couple of scientists raised their 3 daughters to play chess to try and prove that men weren't automatically better at the game; I believe all 3 girls were grandmasters at a young age. bullcrap. Talent is very real. some people are just way more naturally talented than others. everybody is built differently. Michael Jordan is the greatest bball player of all time because not only did he work hard, but he was EXTREMELY talented. can't believe there are people out that actually believe talent isn't real. Also WHERE DID I SAY KOREANS ARE GENETICALLY SUPERIOR? I said jaedong/flash/bisu are extremely talented and they are. I name those three, because they are the best bw players of all time. has nothing to do with race. I agree. BW players like JD, Flash, Bisu are talented AND hard working. That's why they consistently place at the top with similar training schedules with many teammates. A few players being talented doesn't mean a whole nation is somehow genetically superior. There could be just as many talented players at Flash's level in North America. But guess what? There's ISN'T a infrastructure here to discover those talents! Talented Player X isn't going to dominate in BW if he doesn't even train in it or play it.
While you have a point, the level of dedication is different too. Flash/MVP/Ryung/MMA all deal with CTS and still train 10+ hours a day regardless. Foreigners (cough TLO) took time off. I'm not saying that as a bad thing to him, he SHOULD prioritize his health but it just shows how much this means to the Koreans.
|
On November 21 2011 12:59 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:56 DamageControL wrote:On November 21 2011 12:52 Defacer wrote:
I just wanted to add that I thought it was a great finals, that you can only appreciate in the context of the whole tournament.
Naniwa looked like he had Zerg solved, but thankfully Leenock solved Naniwa. They both had brilliant runs and deserve a lot of credit. Did it look to anyone else like Leenock was not fully confident in his zvp? He's good, don't get me wrong, but his builds seemed designed to net him early advantages riskily. Did anyone think that maybe he was worried about an even macro game? Not to take anything away from him. It obviously worked. But I would only question whether he's capable of adapting against other tosses. Probably he is, his builds were pretty obviously reactive to the fact that nani had been FFEing against every zerg every single time and didn't seem like he was doing anything else any time soon. Leenock historically hasn't had very good ZvP but it has been improving a lot as of late. I think he just metagamed Nani terribly ad punished him for being so inflexible. If you look closely, most of the games Leenock wasn't blindly going for the Roach/ling pressure, he was going for a standard speedling expand, but when he saw the FFE he just went for the pressure, since it's much better against FFE than speedling expand.
Nope, 1-base roach pressure is only "good" vs FFE if it is not scouted, otherwise its almost an instant loss. Its the definition of cheese. It was quite a nice mindgame from leenock though to use it again and again even after it initially failed on shakuras.
|
On November 21 2011 13:06 Quiescence wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 13:02 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 12:54 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:36 jj33 wrote:Also, the top korean players like flash etc aren't the top because they just play alot, they are talented.
Playing alot is a GIVEN. What separates a good pro from the cream of the crop like bisu/flash/Jaedong is their talent.
So no it's not just training. If it's just mass training, why don't you go and do it? Since you hate koreans why don't you go beat them? It's near proven that experts are trained and not born. Amount of training is only a factor, more important is quality of training. Koreans aren't genetically better, and it's odd that you'd claim that absolutely without evidence. Case in point; a married couple of scientists raised their 3 daughters to play chess to try and prove that men weren't automatically better at the game; I believe all 3 girls were grandmasters at a young age. bullcrap. Talent is very real. some people are just way more naturally talented than others. everybody is built differently. Michael Jordan is the greatest bball player of all time because not only did he work hard, but he was EXTREMELY talented. can't believe there are people out that actually believe talent isn't real. Also WHERE DID I SAY KOREANS ARE GENETICALLY SUPERIOR? I said jaedong/flash/bisu are extremely talented and they are. I name those three, because they are the best bw players of all time. has nothing to do with race. I agree. BW players like JD, Flash, Bisu are talented AND hard working. That's why they consistently place at the top with similar training schedules with many teammates. A few players being talented doesn't mean a whole nation is somehow genetically superior. There could be just as many talented players at Flash's level in North America. But guess what? There's ISN'T a infrastructure here to discover those talents! Talented Player X isn't going to dominate in BW if he doesn't even train in it or play it.
no arguments here. You are right talent is not exclusive to race as some people accuse me of saying due to their own biases.
talent and hardwork = success in any sport or whatever it may be that you put your time into to hone your craft
|
On November 21 2011 13:06 Quiescence wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 13:02 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 12:54 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:36 jj33 wrote:Also, the top korean players like flash etc aren't the top because they just play alot, they are talented.
Playing alot is a GIVEN. What separates a good pro from the cream of the crop like bisu/flash/Jaedong is their talent.
So no it's not just training. If it's just mass training, why don't you go and do it? Since you hate koreans why don't you go beat them? It's near proven that experts are trained and not born. Amount of training is only a factor, more important is quality of training. Koreans aren't genetically better, and it's odd that you'd claim that absolutely without evidence. Case in point; a married couple of scientists raised their 3 daughters to play chess to try and prove that men weren't automatically better at the game; I believe all 3 girls were grandmasters at a young age. bullcrap. Talent is very real. some people are just way more naturally talented than others. everybody is built differently. Michael Jordan is the greatest bball player of all time because not only did he work hard, but he was EXTREMELY talented. can't believe there are people out that actually believe talent isn't real. Also WHERE DID I SAY KOREANS ARE GENETICALLY SUPERIOR? I said jaedong/flash/bisu are extremely talented and they are. I name those three, because they are the best bw players of all time. has nothing to do with race. I agree. BW players like JD, Flash, Bisu are talented AND hard working. That's why they consistently place at the top with similar training schedules with many teammates. A few players being talented doesn't mean a whole nation is somehow genetically superior. There could be just as many talented players at Flash's level in North America. But guess what? There's ISN'T a infrastructure here to discover those talents! Talented Player X isn't going to dominate in BW if he doesn't even train in it or play it.
hahahaha oh lord. "There could be just as many talented players at FLASH's level in NA." - what are you smoking. There is no one near his talent level in NA. And it ain't just because we haven't found them in the basement's all over the U.S. Flash's talent evolved over many years of practice and hard work.
|
On November 21 2011 13:08 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 13:02 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 13:00 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:50 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:47 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:43 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:38 Jiddra wrote:On November 21 2011 12:36 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:28 Casablancas wrote:On November 21 2011 12:25 jyLee wrote:
[quote]
So now your just crying about why Naniwa has no friends when Idra has so many. I just cannot fathom why anyone would be angry at the fans for booing an unlikable person. Real mature. Immature for saying people shouldnt boo at a player who just accomplished maybe the best result a foreigner have ever done? No immature for being mad at fans for booing. Fans can boo whoever the hell they please and who can blame them for booing Naniwa after his actions. Also maybe you should check your facts before claiming Naniwa had the best result a foreigner had. Pretty sure Huk WINNING mlg would be a better pick lol. And we can boo whatever crowd we want for booing. Silly how this arguemnt can go round and round... No you have no reason to be upset. Why are you so mad that people dont like Naniwa. Last time I checked he hasnt proven himself with a GSL championship or MLG championship and bms worse than Idra. When was the last time he bmed? He called MLG a joke tournament out of frustration, nothing that hasn't happened before, and his temper is one of his flaws. He claims he never meant to disrespect Nestea, and as far as I can see he didn't. So when has he bmed since the days of old Naniwa who'd cheese every game, which was ages ago? As for proving himself...god damn man are you just biased against the guy? Over the last 3 days he beat MVP, Nestea, Nestea again, Huk, and DRG. Yeah he has no resul-OH WAIT he just took 2nd in the most stacked MLG ever. It was only about an hour ago, maybe you can recall it. And he has won an MLG. Thats a lot of excuses. He hasnt won anything, only thing he's proven is that he's good. The MLG he won was with zero koreans attending so yeah it was pretty much a joke. I'm not biased, its clear you are a raging Naniwa fanboy though. Setting aside that he won the MLG Global Invitational two days ago, the only thing he's proven is he's good? What the FUCK else is there to prove? What the fuck are you even saying? You are biased. I am, indeed, a Naniwa fan, well spotted. A very good night to you. Why are you not banned yet? Its like you dont even bother reading. What he's done to distinguish himself from players like HuK or Idra is defeating the very best: MMA and Nestea. You can argue why those achievements are not meaningful, but he did it in an offline tournament. So yeah. HuK also won a tournament (MLG) and is also in contention, but he finished much lower in the tournament that you are degrading Nani for "only" placing second in.
HuK is consistently on Code S though, I think nani had an awesome run, but I don't think he's solid enough to remain in Code S for long, particularly now that the format is even less forgiving. We'll have to see.
|
Koreans are and always will be better than foreigners in sc2 because of their culture.
The argument is a matter if potential, and the cultures capacity to exploit this to reach the best possible results.
America does not have this capacity, hence foreigners training in Korea.
Nothing to do with genes, IQ or any other dumb suggestions people keep throwing.
Koreans hold a sense of pride for being the e-sports nation, just like Americans like to think they are the 'land of opportunity' and the biggest super power.
The difference is, Korea is the e sports nation, and America will soon fall behind china in military and economic power...
Korea have embraced e sports, while America never will, as being rich, powerful and high on the social heirarchy has been Ingrained into their culture.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
