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On November 04 2011 21:42 Badfatpanda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 21:25 BONE wrote:
Is there a play style to play Zerg that isn't Marine Tank Medivac that works? I'm not good at all at Marine Tank Medivac, I always seem to lose my marines to Banglings and then my tanks to Mutalik’s, I’m a Platinum player so I don’t have great Marine splitting or super high APM. I was trying to play a more mech style with Hellion\Tank\Thors but I always seem to win the 1st push but then die to wave after wave of roaches, or sometimes Broodlords. The only way I ever beat a Zerg is to 2 port banshee cheese them it seems like, but this is super all in, if they blind counter you it’s over. It's very important with mech to be constantly scouting tech path, if you see infestor or hive with a drop or a scan you need 5 rax ghost production, 4 at least. NP isn't as much of an issue but you'll need to ghosts to counter hive tech. As far as roach spam goes, make sure you stay up with double upgrades, no down time on those armories, and the more roaches he has, the more tanks you can add to your army, if you're worried about losing them to unsiege, build a few sensor towers on the map. Banshees are also a good way to force infestor/muta which eats at roach numbers, but you have to keep up with economic damage regardless because you won't be mobile enough to constantly deny their expos. Hope this helps, mech is really the only alternative to so-so marine control, as pure bio isn't really viable then >< and it's the other alternative.
Thanks, I guess my problem is I try to always center my army around Thors, and not tanks, I could probably get away with 3-5 Thors and way more Tanks. I've played some 2v2 games where I've gone mostly Thor\Banshee\and Hellion and it seems to work, but I'm not sure how good it would be 1v1.
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On November 04 2011 21:51 BONE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 21:42 Badfatpanda wrote:On November 04 2011 21:25 BONE wrote:
Is there a play style to play Zerg that isn't Marine Tank Medivac that works? I'm not good at all at Marine Tank Medivac, I always seem to lose my marines to Banglings and then my tanks to Mutalik’s, I’m a Platinum player so I don’t have great Marine splitting or super high APM. I was trying to play a more mech style with Hellion\Tank\Thors but I always seem to win the 1st push but then die to wave after wave of roaches, or sometimes Broodlords. The only way I ever beat a Zerg is to 2 port banshee cheese them it seems like, but this is super all in, if they blind counter you it’s over. It's very important with mech to be constantly scouting tech path, if you see infestor or hive with a drop or a scan you need 5 rax ghost production, 4 at least. NP isn't as much of an issue but you'll need to ghosts to counter hive tech. As far as roach spam goes, make sure you stay up with double upgrades, no down time on those armories, and the more roaches he has, the more tanks you can add to your army, if you're worried about losing them to unsiege, build a few sensor towers on the map. Banshees are also a good way to force infestor/muta which eats at roach numbers, but you have to keep up with economic damage regardless because you won't be mobile enough to constantly deny their expos. Hope this helps, mech is really the only alternative to so-so marine control, as pure bio isn't really viable then >< and it's the other alternative. Thanks, I guess my problem is I try to always center my army around Thors, and not tanks, I could probably get away with 3-5 Thors and way more Tanks. I've played some 2v2 games where I've gone mostly Thor\Banshee\and Hellion and it seems to work, but I'm not sure how good it would be 1v1.
It's a balance thing that you'll get more skilled at determining the more you mech, just remember roaches don't cost that much gas, so be wary of what ELSE he's teching to, thors are good because he can muta switch at any time, but if you have 3-5 thors and ghosts you should be fine against any number of mutas, heavier thor is OK too on some maps where tank positioning is difficult, but always have at least 4 tanks against any roach comp.
And ye, mech is REALLY good in 2s 
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Hi , Ive recently been moved from high level Bronze to High level Silver and i feel like ive improved. However my TvZ just sucks. As usual i will go MMM because of lings i see and i attack , I loose my army to alot of melee units so i carry on with MMM then i get 10-20 mutas in my base and i have nothing. I just cant seem to beat mutas early on. The mutats normally come between 12 and 20 minutes is there a certain build or tactic i can use to either delay the mutas or totally take out the zerg before 12 minutes? . Thanks , Any advice would be greatly appreciated
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Hi , Ive recently been moved from high level Bronze to High level Silver and i feel like ive improved. However my TvZ just sucks. As usual i will go MMM because of lings i see and i attack , I loose my army to alot of melee units so i carry on with MMM then i get 10-20 mutas in my base and i have nothing. I just cant seem to beat mutas early on. The mutats normally come between 12 and 20 minutes is there a certain build or tactic i can use to either delay the mutas or totally take out the zerg before 12 minutes? . Thanks , Any advice would be greatly appreciated
You may have more success adding some mech units to your composition. In any case if he's going muta, you will want to have thors to deal with them. A better opening for you might be to start with hellion, then switch to tank/marine/medivac, then add in thors once you scout mutalisk.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 05 2011 01:16 Obelix wrote:Show nested quote +Hi , Ive recently been moved from high level Bronze to High level Silver and i feel like ive improved. However my TvZ just sucks. As usual i will go MMM because of lings i see and i attack , I loose my army to alot of melee units so i carry on with MMM then i get 10-20 mutas in my base and i have nothing. I just cant seem to beat mutas early on. The mutats normally come between 12 and 20 minutes is there a certain build or tactic i can use to either delay the mutas or totally take out the zerg before 12 minutes? . Thanks , Any advice would be greatly appreciated You may have more success adding some mech units to your composition. In any case if he's going muta, you will want to have thors to deal with them. A better opening for you might be to start with hellion, then switch to tank/marine/medivac, then add in thors once you scout mutalisk.
Obelix has the right idea. Probably to figure out what has gone wrong in your games we'll need a replay. Try uploading a replay to drop.sc or a similar site and posting the link here-- we'd be glad to take a look.
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On November 05 2011 01:11 Soldierman wrote:
Hi , Ive recently been moved from high level Bronze to High level Silver and i feel like ive improved. However my TvZ just sucks. As usual i will go MMM because of lings i see and i attack , I loose my army to alot of melee units so i carry on with MMM then i get 10-20 mutas in my base and i have nothing. I just cant seem to beat mutas early on. The mutats normally come between 12 and 20 minutes is there a certain build or tactic i can use to either delay the mutas or totally take out the zerg before 12 minutes? . Thanks , Any advice would be greatly appreciated
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=274004
This really really helped my tvz. Its a build which you get out a decently quick CC and still harass a little. All gearing up to a decent 3 tank timing push to deny/kill a 3rd. Even in diamond i often win games flat out with the push.
You have to be able to scout 1 base roach play though as it hard counters it pretty bad.
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Heres the replay: http://drop.sc/52983 . Its pretty much how my TvZ games go except sometimes the mutas come later
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Is anyone up to date with the playstyles the Korean Terrans use against all three races nowadays? Is it still the standard stuff? Or something different?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 05 2011 07:03 KenDM wrote:
Is anyone up to date with the playstyles the Korean Terrans use against all three races nowadays? Is it still the standard stuff? Or something different?
From what I've seen in the GSL, there's still a fair amount of 1/1/1 in TvP, but also plenty of 1 rax FEs and big bio play with lots of ghosts. I haven't watched many TvZs. TvT still has the usual variety of builds, with banshee rushes, fast expands, bio pushes, tank rushes, full mech, and bio-mech all in there. Mvp is still using full mech so I suspect that's the best TvT.
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Hey guys, I'm a mid plat Terran player and yesterday I've played against my diamond zerg friend and I got roflstomped by him. I went normal reactored hellion expand into marine siege tanks thor, but the zerg just went mass mutas with zergling baneling. I've put turrets in my mineral lines and stuff, but he just targets his mutas on my addons 
How do I counter this mass mass muta with zergling baneling? Much help appreciated thanks!
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On November 05 2011 12:57 WafflesX3 wrote:Hey guys, I'm a mid plat Terran player and yesterday I've played against my diamond zerg friend and I got roflstomped by him. I went normal reactored hellion expand into marine siege tanks thor, but the zerg just went mass mutas with zergling baneling. I've put turrets in my mineral lines and stuff, but he just targets his mutas on my addons How do I counter this mass mass muta with zergling baneling? Much help appreciated thanks!
I suggest posting the replay so others can give better advice.
I'm also a mid plat Terran who used to struggle a lot against mutalisks.
Stating the opponent was able to amass a large number of mutalisks indicates a lack of pressure from you. Try finding a push timing that hits before the usual mutalisk timing. The more threatening the push is, the more resources Zerg uses on units that are not mutalisks. Of course, it's more wise to back off at that point if the Zerg makes enough units to outright crush your push.
I tend to rely on this timing a lot and skimp on turrets, to be honest. Obviously, this doesn't always work out to my favor, but until later in the game where a large mutalisk count is seen, I can't justify the mineral investment. Maybe 0~2 (usually none) near my addons and 0~1 in each mineral line depending on how many units I force from Zerg. They're only there to stall the mutalisks until marines arrive anyway. Alternatively, keep a clump of marines around a base that is susceptible to muta harass if you don't want to invest too heavily into turrets; it'll let you get more barracks, therefore more marines.
Upgrades, start them early. Against a Zerg who techs straight to mutas, you should have a head start on upgrades and try to maintain that upgrade advantage.
Make sure your tank count is respectably high before starting Thor production, unless you're on enough gas geysers to have multiple factories producing both. Tanks are needed in taking out banelings (which are the main threat to your marines) while marines don't need thor support against mutalisks, provided that they're upgraded well.
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I feel dumb for even asking this, but in regards to 1 rax FE:
10 - Supply Depot + scout close position. If opposing player there then wall-off.
12 - Barracks
15 - Marine (1), skip if no scout
16 - Orbital Command
17 - Command Center (2), do not skip SCVs
17 - Supply Depot (2)
Am I supposed to be cutting marines after the first one, until my CC is started? I ask this for a couple reasons:
1) It specifically says to not skip SCVs...so I'm assuming there should only be 1 marine and the 17th supply would be used by an scv. But this means having nothing producing for a good 20 seconds during the time period where the marine finishes but i'm still waiting for the OC to complete so I can start an SCV. On top of that, by not producing the extra marine, I'd have enough money to start the CC on 16, and still not have to delay the SCV when the OC completes...so why would I be waiting for 17?
2) If I start a second marine for the 17th supply, then a CC/Depot I would be delaying an SCV (or delaying the CC to 18)
Again, it's probably a dumb question, but I was looking for some replays and couldn't really find any...and in gameplay it SEEMS optimal (no delays/no supply blocks/constant scv production) doing 16 depot 18 CC (with an additional marine AND scv making the gap from 16-18...). Or to just do CC on 16, scv when the OC completes, then supply depot on 17.
Is this just more of a preference issue based on matchup/map?
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High Diamond Terran transitioning to Master. 43 PvTs in the last week, 100% Protoss player are fully retarded and go one base all-in, mostly immortal or fast colossus and flame me that I'm a nap cause Terran is imba. What to do? Do you expand only when Protoss expands or can you expand against a one base all-in? Tried 5 bunker ultra defense, 50 Immortal damage just destroys everything.
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Is reaper FE viable on Shakuras Plateau vs. every race? And vs. Zerg do you bunker rush with your reapers or do you just poke around and try to force a few lings and get some scouting done?
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@Hyduk, a lot of people I know will cut the supply depots on large maps and vs. Zerg, but vs. Protoss/Terran will make the marine/supply depot first. Just decide how safe you are and make your call on if you want to cut the supply depot. Just make constant workers and don't get supply blocked
@Carvaleur, the thing about TvP is that scouting is REQUIRED and the Protoss players can hide their buildings anywhere. If I see that Protoss is all inning, I keep my expansion in my base and I just bunker up at the top of my ramp. Try and get a good concave with your bunkers as well (I can't tell if you get a good concave or not from your post but it's not that important). Marines are really good vs. immortals, but vs. Sentries they do quite poorly. Focus fire the guardian shield sentries with your marines and then focus fire the stalkers with your marauders, try and keep your bunkers alive and try to get a wall up incase of zealots.
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how do you deal with cloaked banshee tvt?
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On November 05 2011 20:04 jjhchsc2 wrote:
how do you deal with cloaked banshee tvt?
In what situation? Rushed cloaked banshees from a proxy starport? 2-port banshee? Delayed banshees as part of a push? Lategame mass banshee? While the respons differs for these situations, the one common aspect to all of them is: Scout it.
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If any >Diamond level player does a 2Rax FE against Toss, would you mind posting a replay please?
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@KenDM By > Diamond level player, do you mean Masters or above, or high diamond as well?
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Just wondering what kind of midgame/lategame compositionlow masters terrans are doing for TvZ? Reactored helion CC has pretty much become THE opening to do. But i've been having alot of success in masters league just completely cutting tanks in my composition. Meaning i keep the reactor on the factory and keep pumping helions.
The extra gas goes into more medivacs (normally youd have arund 4-5 with tihs you can get up to 8-10) and quick infantry upgrades. WIth the medivacs and no tanks to harass, mutas become pretty useless, and you can use helions to run ahead to snipe banelings/infestors while doing lots of drop play because you have lots of marines/medivacs.
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EPT
