TL Mafia XLIV - Page 98

IT'S C BITCHES

Although, I suppose, it's not inaccurate to say that it could be a combination of all of them. It's entirely possible that the post is a complete fabrication and that bum didn't actually read through the thread, just claimed to do so. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised with that either.

Foolish's main arguments were that BB was being dodgy and defensive, and that his vote posts have been pure restatements of existing arguments.

However, I disagree with his analysis of the connections, too, just like you, bum! The difference is that I find merit in his other arguments, and I'm not overly focused on WHAT Foolish was saying. You disagree with one of his points=foolish automatically wrong about BB (who you replaced). In fact, he's SO wrong he becomes mafia (wtf?).

You recant your vote on foolish once you're called out, and you basically admit to not reading properly. Well, kind of, since you could've read it all anyway and just lied.

Anyway, to clarify what I said about disagreeing with Foolish's arguments about BB's connections to other people: I think his analysis of the Mig-BB connection was good. However, I disagree with some of the other people he listed in his large BB analysis post. A bunch of people were listed there that I'm very strongly sure are town.

It is my belief that a mafia would not react to an accusation in this manner. Vain is being fairly confrontational here, and mafia don't generally defend themselves by putting themselves out like this. His defense is pretty logical, too, as supersoft did not have a very good reason at all for voting vain.





Both of these posts are pretty straight to the point and honest. This doesn't say much yet, but when I asked him questions again to clarify his opinions, and to see what he would say when probed for reasons, he responded with this:



Yes, I really did just highlight in green, almost his entire post. Why?

Well, first he takes a slight stab at me by saying, "you sure love lists." That's not much, but would mafia respond like that? I doubt it.

Then, he contributes! He establishes firm reasons for believing nard to be scum. He says that nard has voted and said things without actually saying anything of substance. He says that nard has been contradictive (and provides clear evidence, via quote!) i.e. nard wants a lynch but votes BB.

He's honest; he admits he hasn't read all the post histories, so he's hesitant to throw names around. Finally, he straight up says, "I'm not lurking now, am I?" and adds that he probably made a mistake, but without the air of apology that is often a theme of mafia posts.

I think we (and me too) focused a little too much on vain's inactivity and not enough on the manner of his posts. Vain's style of posting suggests to me that he is a townie.



Again, he's actually contributing here. His post is short, but it has contribution. Important parts that are beneficial to town are highlighted in green:

He provides what he knows about Lucidity in a succinct manner, and refocuses town attention away from him because he's a lurker. Good points here.

Finally, provides good reasons with respect to HOW hiro posted in order to justify his vote for hiro. He didn't restate other people. He had his own opinion, despite the fact that it wasn't exhaustive, he contributed something.

Now, the caveat is that, after that, vain has done nothing. I'm inclined to believe that he has kinda forgotten about this game. He needs to post more, there is no doubt about that. HOWEVER; the thing to keep in mind about this is that an inactive person who has been accused several times by town players of being mafia is a GREAT choice for mafia to frame, and to focus on for a potential mislynch. This is because the mafia players can force a mislynch on said suspected townie without actually fabricating anything. It's very easy to convince people to lynch someone who already appears scummy to everyone, rather than fabricating a case or diverting a lynch on an actual mafia member. The icing on the cake is the framing ability that confounds DTs and causes "assurance" among the town with respect to the criminality of the suspected player.

If I had to guess the last two right now, I'd guess Kurumi and Rayzor, but it's certainly possible that one of them is not. Kurumi's claim was really strange to me, and that's why he's now on my suspect list, and Navillus+Pyo have done nothing, so it's probably two of these four:
Pyo, Rayzor, Kurumi, Navillus. ?? I've had a slight change of heart about Rayzor but I am reluctant to doubt my initial reads on him. I want everyone's opinions on these four players.

I think you are seeing way too much into the "DT dies tonight" claim though. We expected DropBear to be killed on the second night and Foolishness on the third - and now it's safe to assume that Chaoser will follow. Still, Bumatlarge is clearly mafia.

The fact that you can derive a read from a person saying a claimed DT will get shot shows everyone exactly what your underlying goal is here. Nard is lynched, mafia team has 4 people, vain gets lynched its down to 3, which is a dangerous number to sit at for mafia, as the difference between 2kp and 1kp is drastic. The longer that mafia has 3 players the more likely they can beat us. If this is what it will come down to we'll have an easier time then I thought rooting the rest of you out.



As far as I could see BB was on the pedestal with mig for hanging, and it would be incredibly bad if we didn't lynch mig at that point. Defending BB was practically my purpose coming into the game, and it paid off. 1 mafia dead and we haven't lost yet.



So not reading the thread makes me scum? You say "indirectly" because there is nothing contradictory about it. The fact that I'm inquiring about mig's situation is exactly the opposite of what you just said that I'm only focused on defending myself.



AND YOU SAY NOTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST SAID I LIED ABOUT. I said connecting people based on not talking about them was extremely faulty, and the foolishness focusing on BB rather then Mig was a bad approach to it. And that was the "strongest" part of foolishness' "connection".



So you're just saying you don't believe I didn't read the thread? So as mafia, I falsely accused a CONFIRMED TOWNIE that his methods were anti-town and I thought he was scum for that. Toss that idea in your head a bit. Tell me if you can honestly reach the convoluted conclusion you just did. It simply makes no sense! No exaggeration here, it makes ZERO sense.



Then vote me for BB's behavior, I've defended this all before, so you're lying when you I conveniently ignored the other points. His connection point was the one I had the biggest problem with and why I thought he was scummy.



You are now inventing reasons for things that are clear. I didn't read the thread closely enough and there is no reason as mafia for me to lie about that in this situation. How would this benefit me at all.





Well if you and other people see things in these kind of posts, don't let me stop you.




That's quite a jump lol, having to call me a framer for an argument to work is quite a stretch, no? I won't argue against this until there is proof of there being a framer at all.



How about switching to nard if people feel that is a better vote then vain? I initally felt vain needed to be killed to clear chaoser, but that would be the wrong move because perhaps chaoser was trying to save nard from a lynch, which would be the highest likelihood because it doesn't involve GF's, millers, framers or nosy neighbors. Occam's Razor.



It's doesn't make chaoser's claim better, it made the vain lynch more necessary, but then considering all the factors, such as a Vig or mad hatter, they would be better spent on nard anyway. Even if I was entertaining the notion that chaoser could be lying, it would still be better to go for nard over him.




Well that isn't true, I've found you and vain now which is a pretty clear contribution now



Just as Mafia tend to give thoughts uncertainly?



I don't think any of that's true, I've voted what would be help town at all times? My content is very straightforward, one thing I've purposefully done to make me as transparent as possible, and I have not contradicted myself at all knowingly. Saying I've read the thread, then falling into a hole based on not reading the thread is a lot of things but not a purposeful contradiction.



I think this up for everyone else to decide if this is a logical leap. It's interesting to say the least I think the rest of this doesn't pertain to me as much, but I suggest everyone read it. I defintely disagree with Vain being town, and the fact that you had to do a complete "180" to defend him seems very desperate. I'll give my own analysis of you, because this isn't OMGUS, this is a last ditch effort to clinch the game, that much is clear to me.

Liquidite - Welcome to TL Mafia XLIV you are Lance, the local professional starcraft 2 player, your user name is Legion, and you are a member of the well reputed team IM, as IMLegion, you have no special powers, however you will use your tactical genius and gosu micro to vote for scum and bring down the mafia.