EPTReal Time Mafia - Page 15
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On June 28 2011 16:56 TheAwesomeAll wrote: hmm GMs last post is actually pretty good, however since your afraid of lylos let me paint one for you: 2 lurking townies 1 active townie 1 lurking maffia and 1 active . sounds horrible right? If all the lurkers were killed mafia had already won that situation, lurking is bad, scare people all you want, But keep in mind that every shot townie will hurt us a LOT. Thats why advocating careless shooting is anti town, now youre no noob and probably now this. Thats why i think you are scummy Give it a good thought. + Show Spoiler + giving scary lylo situations isnt that usefull for the town either btw, just focus on lynching scum, since after all this theorycrafting, no blue would know where to shoot If you killed ONE lurker the others would be scared into posting ^_^ And I'll take lylo 8v5 or something like that with all active players over lylo at 3v1 with no active players any day. Trust me, lurkers are a nightmare to read. Sure, focus on lynching scum, but give the lurkers a nice solid reason not to lurk. Bullets to the brain are as solid as reasons get. | ||
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TheAwesomeAll
Netherlands1609 Posts
On June 28 2011 16:54 GMarshal wrote: /applause. You just shot down all town discussion and missed the major point of the lurker discussion, which is to force people to take stances. For example YM seems to be pretty much in agreement with me, while sand is in opposition, from sand's strong stance and willingness to fight for the spotlight its easy to see he dosn't care if people focus on him, a town trait. You miss this because you are too busy dismissing it as "spam". I agree that hiro has yet to post anything of substance, yet after bashing talking about a "pro-town atmosphere" you go on to quote a post about the pro-town atmosphere as being one of the best. I notice you don't actually accuse hiro of being scum though. Care to commit with your vote? Also the cynical tone is typical of mafia players. Its a distancing mechanism, since you feel isolated and threatened. Nice light FoS on me without substance too. I like how you manage to both belittle all discussion AND start smearing doubt around. This post alone *reeks* of being mafia. I'm not going to be wishywashy about it either. ##Vote: TheAwesomeAll Quick, expand your FoS on hiro into something larger, something NOT spammy Mr. "This town is all spam" wow sorry GM did i step on some toes? Please expand more on that discussion, maybe i missed it, who are being accused, what valuable information did we gain? all i saw was spam spam spam, you know that town atmosphere of yours. Except talking about it, what did you do? did you give any points town should follow, did you create any discussion, did you *gasp* make an analysis? I must have missed all of that, dont expect me to post again untill ive read EVERYTHING 3 times at least, cya Edit without edit: it might have been unfair to blame you for the list, it was chaos question. Chaos gave the oportunity for a perfect mafia blend in. Not accusing you just saying it was chaosses fault, since it was an opportunity to post without information, to dissapear from any nasty lurker lists, to seem helpfull without doing anything really. And yes, why did you vote for me? didnt like the pressure? A good tactice to discourage anything is to punish the first guy who does it, since no second will come without a first right? Well the first guy to stick his neck out got a vote and the careless fos of the allmighty town leader. Sure as hell makes your case worse | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On June 28 2011 17:08 TheAwesomeAll wrote: wow sorry GM did i step on some toes? Please expand more on that discussion, maybe i missed it, who are being accused, what valuable information did we gain? all i saw was spam spam spam, you know that town atmosphere of yours. Except talking about it, what did you do? did you give any points town should follow, did you create any discussion, did you *gasp* make an analysis? I must have missed all of that, dont expect me to post again untill ive read EVERYTHING 3 times at least, cya Edit without edit: it might have been unfair to blame you for the list, it was chaos question. Chaos gave the oportunity for a perfect mafia blend in. Not accusing you just saying it was chaosses fault, since it was an opportunity to post without information, to dissapear from any nasty lurker lists, to seem helpfull without doing anything really. And yes, why did you vote for me? didnt like the pressure? A good tactice to discourage anything is to punish the first guy who does it, since no second will come without a first right? Well the first guy to stick his neck out got a vote and the careless fos of the allmighty town leader. Sure as hell makes your case worse I voted for you because your post was scummy in my eyes. It still is. Sand voted for me like 3 hours ago, but the way he went about accusing me was pretty townie, so I don't suspect him for it. We are 7 hours in, no I have no analysis. My first 30 or so hours will be spent generating discussion and figuring out who I think is green from their posting. I'll also be figuring out who is mafia or pushing mafia objectives. Finally the atmosphere seems good to me, no flaming, discussion is proceeding, people are being gentlemanly, right now its good that people are talking. I'm not going to post who I have concluded is town, because I have no interest in painting targets on their back, thank you very much. So far my scum reads are pretty soft, but as more people post I should be able to figure out a nice day 1 candidate. Read, carefully, the thread, a lot of valuable information has been revealed. For now my vote is staying on you, since I want to see you tick ^_^ Also it is now 4:15 am in my local area so I'm off to sleep. See you all in the morning! | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 28 2011 16:29 GMarshal wrote: Depends on the host actually, I've played games where vets can be roleblocked. Lets ask, not that it matters, but I'll admit I'm curious now. Can veteran's additional life be broken by a roleblock Yes. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
On June 28 2011 17:04 GMarshal wrote: Hint mafia *isn't* spamming, they are making simple posts that aren't quite lurking, but that serve no purpose, fluffy posts to be clear. Isn't this exactly what he's accusing hiro of doing? The guy has ~7 posts in the thread, and as TAA points out most aren't stellar contributions. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On June 28 2011 15:23 VisceraEyes wrote: @GM At any rate, 201 is correct, Palmar DID /out before the game started. He'll either be Mod-killed or replaced before Day 2, I totally forgot. Aside from adding LSB to the vet list, which Wiggles already suggested, I have no problems with your list. :D NOW What do we do with it? We've pretty much unanimously decided that blues will be acting on their own with VERY limited guidance from the rest of town. Should we just go down the list and start asking people their opinions on each one? Or is that just something to look at once people start dying? So, I did out, I still got sent a role, so I guess RoL decided I was in. I hate to disappoint but that means I'm more alive than you'd like. Here are my thoughts so far on the game. Anyone encouraging vigis to take care with their shots is insane. Just go nuts and shoot whoever you like. This means that some people will be really angry with you, but then we just hang those people for mafia. Also, the zodiac or vet lists are completely useless in my opinion. That's like inviting the mafia to contribute without actually contributing. If you feel like making lists you should rather be doing something like listing up the lurkers. Then you're actually useful before we hang you. I'm still catching up, you guys spammed 10 pages while I slept. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On June 28 2011 15:33 sandroba wrote: @GM Okay, now you are just being silly. Considering this setup you know mafia won't lurk, because lurkers are at an extreme dissavantage regarding everything. If new mafia players lurk, I'm all fine and dandy with it, since our DTs can quickly confirm/nail them. They are unlikely to be chosen GF AND if I read the op correctly only one GF is possible this game. Despite me saying VIGS DO NOT SHOOT LURKERS UNTIL IT BECOMES A PROBLEM I'm sure people will do it and I guarantee you they will all flip town. Do not ecourage them. You are border line pushing mafia objetives now. You're wrong. Vigis should be totally shooting people in the lurker list, because there is no reason for anyone in the game to be in the lurker list. DTs should NOT be checking into the lurker list, as that'd be completely stupid. Let me say this plain and simple. Everyone agrees that ideally, there will be no one on the lurker list, because it's anti-town to be in there, so people who are actually trying to win the game for town will not be in this list. So, that leaves people who are not trying to win the game for town.... voila, shoot them. As for DT checks, using those on the lurker list is stupid. I don't care if mr. mightbecop claims mr. lurker is innocent. The DTs should be focusing completely on scummy people instead. Hopefully, no one will be on the lurker list, so this ought to not be a problem, but if anyone remains there, then I hope a friendly vigi teaches them a good lesson with a bullet. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On June 28 2011 11:54 GMarshal wrote: gtrsrs. Hi. Pull shit like you did in SNMMIV, where you essentially sabotaged the town by creating a horrible day 1 atmosphere and I will absolutely *relish* your death. I don't want to kill you, but if you threaten this towns chances at victory I will. lol okay tough guy anyways jesus christ i was out moving furniture at my g/f's house all day and there's like 16 pages to read. def not gonna even attempt until tomorrow morning/afternoon. i might already even be dead! :x | ||
Mig
United States4714 Posts
Sandroba - Almost certainly town. In my experience mafia day 1 seem to mostly sit back or push to lynch an easy target. GM is pretty much the opposite of an easy day 1 lynch. So that combined with the fact that he is posting strongly with a differing opinion from what most of the town has gives him huge town cred in my eyes. I also agree with most of his thoughts on the lurkers. Lurkers suck but shooting them will almost certainly just being killing townies. GM - Really not sure. At the start I was a bit concerned about how his play might mirror that from XXXVII. But really he is 10x as outspoken and decisive this game. One thing he did say that concerned me tho was where he said he had no real analysis yet but would have it after 30 hours or so. Mafia post when it is convenient for them not for the town and often times you will see them promise to deliver analysis that never comes. GM even did some of this in PTP. So overall I am uncertain about him right now but I think he would be a bad day 1 lynch. He is super active and generates a lot of discussion. Even if he is mafia there will be a lot more information to build a case against him within a day or 2. Youngminii - I am suspicious of. First he starts out aggressively attacking some people which is fine. However once GM vs Sandroba starts he kind of fades a bit into the background without giving much of an opinion on who is right. Including this very strong stance he takes here. On June 28 2011 16:32 youngminii wrote: I can see what sandroba's saying, I don't fully agree but I don't fully disagree either. Which he makes without providing any explanation whatsoever to what part he agrees and disagrees with. Overall not the strongest case but he is probably the most suspicious to me so far. One other person I find suspicious is Eiii. He posted saying he promised himself he would post his thoughts more. Yet so far he has only posted a paragraph basically saying he doesn't understand the early days and doesn't like the showiness of some posters. He hasn't given any opinion on any specific people that he is suspicious of at all. I always try to take note of when someone says they are going to do something pro town and then does pretty much the opposite. So if I had to place my vote now I would vote for either Eiii or YM. | ||
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Hyaach
Singapore1737 Posts
On June 28 2011 14:59 youngminii wrote: Are you giving an excuse to play differently in this game than other games? Perhaps you just want to justify your actions for later in the game, it's okay I'd do it too ^_^ GM I'll answer for Dropbear. I have indeed formed an opinion of ym and it is one of utmost respect. He is such a lively fellow who takes his time to shoot fireballs at anyone and everyone who posts because as we all know, scum are particularly vulnerable to fire. He seems to be trying to weed out any and all mafia before they can get slip out of sight and cause town to kill itself. I do have one qualm about his posts though, he seems to interchange the words scum and mafia often and this bothers me. Hyaach I want you to answer me: Why did you first speak out and say "blues should not kill whoever they want" and then retract your statement by saying "blues should kill whoever they feel is scummy"? Did you get scared when we called you out on it? Did you decide not to post anymore because you've attracted too much attention? What's your opinion of me, am I a quack or am I being helpful to town? Don't forget to post your reasons, ta <3 You seem to miss my point. I came out saying action are time based and shooting into the lurker list early into the game is more likely to hit town given the ratio. I wasn't against killing scummy looking players, i was against shooting into the lurker list as and when blues with KP likes it. Yes they have a KP set for the lurker list but if you think its a use or waste power then you are wrong. you are not giving people a chance to speak up, i still stand by what i said earlier I'm not against killing, its just lurk and be dead is too strong an approach. I'd say give the lurkers a grace time to post before crossing them out. And by post i mean something that contributes, someone posting for the sake of saying "not a lurker" is deserving to get shot tho. Reading the past few pages, it seems like lurkers have lost people some games so the attention so far is devoted purely on what to do with blue's extra power on the lurker list. That route is a dead end tho, granted its making discussion but at the end of the day, blues are still gonna make their own call. But I propose DTs to use lurker checks near the end of the game. bbl | ||
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Hyaach
Singapore1737 Posts
I don't have a com with me 24/7 on weekdays so my real time mafia isnt that real time . | ||
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Hyaach
Singapore1737 Posts
if that is true we only have as much lurker killing power as there is vigilante: rereading | ||
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Hyaach
Singapore1737 Posts
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Vain
Netherlands1115 Posts
Here are my thoughts on some of the players Gmarshall: is generating some discussion witch is good. Though i found it strange that he wouldn't discuss his list but is fine discussing to or not to kill lurkers. He is painting himself as pro-town and plays like that. If he really is creating a good town atmosphere we'll see in time. If we are lynching scum all the time it's fine but when the town mislynching all the time we should really consider lynching or shooting him. As a dt you could decide to check him but if he's mafia there's a strong chance he is the gf. youngminii: town in my eyes. Usually mafia isn't that aggressive and attention-pulling. Sandroba: Also a bit agressive. Seems town Hyaach: only fluff posts till now I'm not doing more for the sake of discussing a few at one point. Usually long lists containing lots people are forgotten before someone finishes reading it. | ||
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Vain
Netherlands1115 Posts
On June 28 2011 19:46 Hyaach wrote: and this is purely just my newbie-ness speaking but where can i see all the abbreviation people are using? I don't have a com with me 24/7 on weekdays so my real time mafia isnt that real time . http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page There, now stop cluttering the thread. I like to reach page 50 later than sooner. | ||
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DropBear
Australia4264 Posts
On June 28 2011 14:38 GMarshal wrote: A pro-town atmosphere is one in which it is possible to scumhunt and read the thread without having to wade through crap. Its explained in Ver's town guide, but basically it means no mud flinging, no beating dead horses, avoiding unjustified OMGUS and generally behaving as gentlemen towards each other. If we do this we can generate and use information, it will also encourage newer posters to post. Thats the theory at least ^_^ This is a bit contradictory dude. What else about AwesomeAll makes you suspicious of him, other than that he directly disagreed with and voted for you? On June 28 2011 16:25 GMarshal wrote: Sure thing. Please post a more coherent argument. Let me reply to what you have 1.) Duh, anyone with a braincell should have known LSB was town. 2.) I thought of a *similar* plan, but I couldn't (still can't) think of a way to make use of it without having DTs claim. I am against ousting blue roles. 3.) Yes I am. I made my case why, and you should understand it. Vigis have a lurker only KP, they might as well use it, no? All lurkers are traitors, by definition. Ace said it best in my first game, I think, kill scum, and those who will not help you kill scum (not an exact quote, but I don't feel like looking it up) 4.) He admitted to fucking up with the medic thing, because he thought scum had 1 kp. If I think someone is scum I call them out on it. I just think YM is playing poorly, but not necessarily scummy. remember what we said about bad plans? Hell I missed that he made a posts about medics till you pointed it out and I had to go back and check. I don't see your case, but if you bring up any new points I will gladly answer them, so far it seems to me that you are dead set on me being mafia for some reason. I won't appeal to meta, but my alignment should be evident by now. Regarding point 3. How is using town KP to kill bored townies good? The LSB hit has brought a few things to light: - Medics should have protected someone they think is town already by now. The really early LSB shot shows that Mafia are underway with planning already. Any delay in choosing a Medic protect is detrimental. Their shots have to be used today so get protecting sooner rather than later! - Mafia are killing lurkers too. LSB hardly posted before he was shot. I don't think we should be trying to lynch lurkers, let the detectives, mafia and vigis take care of that. - Scum don't want to be on the detective checklists so they will increase their activity. What we should be doing is looking at people who have increased their activity compared to normal, not like we normally do in finding people who try to hide more. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
This couldn't be any more clear. We have a requirement to post actively and work pro-town in this game. We actually have a specific mechanic to help us identify the people that aren't actively posting. Being on the lurker list is not pro-town. Any town people on the list should really be banned for game-throwing, but aside from that, they should be shot. They should not be DT checked, reserve that for players who actually post but look scummy. And of course medics should already be thinking about their targets, but don't you dare try to direct the medics or I'll hang you. Take it those who deserve it, if you're town, and you end up on the lurker list, you're trying to lose, you're gamethrowing intentionally, you're ruining the game and I hope I never have to play with you again. Obviously, this hopefully won't be a problem, because any town trying to win the game will NOT be on the lurker list, and thus the mafia are forced to not be on it either. All I want for Christmas is an empty lurker list. Shape up people, get posting. And GM, even though I agree with you about lynching lurkers, DropBear's question about your OMGUS vote really needs answering. Why the hell should we trust someone who can't even follow his own policies? | ||
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DropBear
Australia4264 Posts
He originally set me off with his first several posts all being one-liners all directed at his mate. He has easily had the most pointless contribution so far. His largest post is this: On June 28 2011 14:44 sinani206 wrote: Pro-Town atmosphere would ideally be:
Being a "leader" seems really scummy to me. I just have this innate bias that leaders are mafia, and even though there is quite a slim chance of them being scum, if they are, town has already lost. As has been mentioned before, all spamming does is derail town. It makes posts hard to find and confuses people so that scum are harder to analyse and pin for what they really are. Scumhunting is obviously very pro-town. It gives the town a good discussion point and helps (obviously) find mafia. No reason not to do this. Lurking is confusing for all players who aren't lurking. It makes you hard to analyse. Obviously with all the anti-lurking abilities in this game, it isn't much of an issue, but keep this in mind. That pretty much covers it. If anyone has any additions, feel free to share. Keep all of these points in mind when posting and analyzing. Off to play some SotIS and then go to sleep. Probably won't check the thread until morning. Good night folks! This makes no sense to me at all. You are actively saying that we should kill people who try and lead the town and you also want to kill people who are lurking. Not only this, scum hunting is bona-fide town leadership! What middle ground do you want people to fill? Let's look at this again. On June 28 2011 14:44 sinani206 wrote: [*]No taking lead. Being a "leader" seems really scummy to me. I just have this innate bias that leaders are mafia, and even though there is quite a slim chance of them being scum They probably aren't scum but we should kill them anyway. Right. This post is a whole lot of nothing. FoS Henry VI. | ||
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