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I've thinking about this since my first or second reservist training when the brigade commander said, "we all hate going to the army. But if you ask anyone, including yourself, whether the army has made you a better person, 9 times out of 10 the answer will be yes."
I wonder if the army really is beneficial for most people. So, seeing as how South Korea and Singapore have conscription, and how some of TL.net is/was in some kind of military organisation, has the army made you a better person?
It really kills me to admit this, but yeah, the army has made me a better person. It's kind of hard to express, but I feel like I matured a lot in there, I got to meet people from different backgrounds, I got to work with and under a variety of assholes and nice guys and I got to do things I wouldn't have done otherwise. Most importantly, I was asked to do a brigade video while I was in there and that experience made me choose the career I have.
EDIT: I realise my OP was kind of vague, so to give some concrete examples of how the army helped me:
1. Discipline - not in the sense that you just follow orders. What is discipline? Discipline is DOING THINGS YOU SHOULD DO, BUT DON'T WANT TO. The army makes people do a lot of that, I think, from keeping their bunks clean to eating what they should eat to exercising the way they should exercise.
I don't think my experience was as bad as most people's, but I know that it showed me what I was capable of. And you come out of something tough and you realise it wasn't especially special either, because everyone was doing it and everyone is still alive. That kind of mindset made me question a lot of things I used to think were too tough to do, or couldn't be bothered to try to do.
2. Gave me time to think about my career. This probably isn't a big deal for some cultures, but in Singapore, the normal route for women is to go through non stop studying from 4 (kindergarten) to 21 (university). At 18, after my A levels, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I didn't even know that the job I'm currently in existed. If I was British or American I might have thought about taking a gap year, but such a thing doesn't exist in Singapore. I really didn't want to go to the army, I hated the thought, but after 2.5 years (which was a whole lot longer than I had to be in, if you ask me) in there, I came out with a much better idea of who I was and what I wanted to do. I don't think that is purely due to the army, but it's fair to say that if not for the army, I would not have had the chance to think about what I wanted in life. I would definitely not have had my current job.
Besides, I was asked to do a video for my brigade and that's when I realised that while production work is tougher than going out into the jungle, it was the kind of thing I wanted to make a career out of.
3. Meeting different people - I'm ashamed to admit this, but I was a middle class snob before. It wasn't deliberate, but since I went to the kind of schools that middle class people go to, I was totally clueless about everyone else. Then I go to the army and I meet these two guys. One of them was a school dropout who worked part time jobs until he could afford a motorcycle. His dream was to upgrade it to something better. Seems like a stupid dream, but he was proud of it because he had bought the bike (and the lessons) with his own money while supporting his mother. And there was another guy who was also a school dropout who used to run a small business selling recycled printer cartridges. He had to close it down when he got conscripted.
I suddenly felt pathetic, since I had never worked for my own money and complained bitterly about joining the army when so many other people were leaving so much more behind. What did I leave behind when I joined the army anyway? Nothing really important. I would not have had that experience outside the army, that's for sure.
That really made me decide to do something worthwhile with my life that I could be proud of, and I owe that to the army.
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Are you aware this is gonna turn into a flamewar in seconds? Or did you post this innocently?
Anyway. In before Aegraen.
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Austin10833 Posts
For many people, the army provides a certain strict discipline and guidance severely lacking in home life. There's male bonding, learning to deal with authority, performance under pressure, etc.
There are many cons to military life, but some of the pros are invaluable to a person lost in the world.
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There is no conscription in western Europe anymore.
I'm quite glad about it, have to say. I really dislike the whole military idea in general.
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On May 23 2009 17:18 BroOd wrote:
There are many cons to military life, but some of the pros are invaluable to a person lost in the world. Yea like "listen exclusively to what you're told and never ever think for yourself like the good sheep you are", I'm sure I would love my kids to learn that.
Whatever I should've been sleeping a long time ago >< good bye.
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On May 23 2009 17:16 VIB wrote:
Are you aware this is gonna turn into a flamewar in seconds? Or did you post this innocently?
Anyway. In before Aegraen.
On May 23 2009 17:23 VIB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2009 17:18 BroOd wrote:
There are many cons to military life, but some of the pros are invaluable to a person lost in the world. Yea like "listen exclusively to what you're told and never ever think for yourself like the good sheep you are", I'm sure I would love my kids to learn that. Whatever I should've been sleeping a long time ago >< good bye.
Thus far it seems like the only one trying to turn this into a "flamewar" is you. There is no reason why it should be one - if you've been in the military, I'd like to hear whether you felt it was good for you and why. If you haven't been in the military, go surf round the girlfriend thread or something.
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is awesome32278 Posts
On May 23 2009 17:18 BroOd wrote:
For many people, the army provides a certain strict discipline and guidance severely lacking in home life. There's male bonding, learning to deal with authority, performance under pressure, etc.
There are many cons to military life, but some of the pros are invaluable to a person lost in the world.
You can get all that from studying too. Except physical training of course.
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Surely, for going through all the training/bunk life/politics/bureaucracy, a person will surely change, mature, have a wider perspective of things. I myself didnt pick up smoking or gambling or anything else, so i think it made me a better man.
But still, conscription is still a serious waste of time. Many things are done inefficiently and time management is never high on the commander's list of priorities. Once, my unit made the whole company sit in a small hall for 3 hours, only to wait for a colonel to speak to us for 10 mins. Instances like this multiplied by 2 years, you can guess the pain.
Yes, army made me better. But perhaps i could have learnt the same lessons outside studying or working as well.
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Austin10833 Posts
On May 23 2009 17:23 VIB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2009 17:18 BroOd wrote:
There are many cons to military life, but some of the pros are invaluable to a person lost in the world. Yea like "listen exclusively to what you're told and never ever think for yourself like the good sheep you are", I'm sure I would love my kids to learn that. Whatever I should've been sleeping a long time ago >< good bye.
I haven't been in the army, but if you're suggesting that everyone who has is some sort of sheep, then yes you should have been sleeping a long time ago.
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On May 23 2009 17:32 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2009 17:18 BroOd wrote:
For many people, the army provides a certain strict discipline and guidance severely lacking in home life. There's male bonding, learning to deal with authority, performance under pressure, etc.
There are many cons to military life, but some of the pros are invaluable to a person lost in the world. You can get all that from studying too. Except physical training of course.
i completely disagree.
The reasons I disagree include:
1 discipline is not learned through studying but rather a requirement to being able to study, kind of like how mothers say you shouldn't sit close to the TV because it'll ruin your eyes, it's total bullshit, but if you do in fact sit very close to the TV your eyes are already ruined.
2. studying in and of itself does not bring male bonding, maybe the context in which you are studying but not the studying it's self
3 studying simply does not contribute much to learning to deal with authority, i merit this to the fact that learning empowers an individual and sometimes arrogance sets in with the knowledge, and although some measure of arrogance is good it does not help with learning to deal with authority.
and no i am not trying to sound like an asshole, and I do generally agree that studying is a better alternative to joining the military.
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is awesome32278 Posts
On May 23 2009 17:54 Etherone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2009 17:32 IntoTheWow wrote:On May 23 2009 17:18 BroOd wrote:
For many people, the army provides a certain strict discipline and guidance severely lacking in home life. There's male bonding, learning to deal with authority, performance under pressure, etc.
There are many cons to military life, but some of the pros are invaluable to a person lost in the world. You can get all that from studying too. Except physical training of course. i completely disagree. The reasons I disagree include: 1 discipline is not learned through studying but rather a requirement to being able to study, kind of like how mothers say you shouldn't sit close to the TV because it'll ruin your eyes, it's total bullshit, but if you do in fact sit very close to the TV your eyes are already ruined. 2. studying in and of itself does not bring male bonding, maybe the context in which you are studying but not the studying it's self 3 studying simply does not contribute much to learning to deal with authority, i merit this to the fact that learning empowers an individual and sometimes arrogance sets in with the knowledge, and although some measure of arrogance is good it does not help with learning to deal with authority. and no i am not trying to sound like an asshole, and I do generally agree that studying is a better alternative to joining the military.
Trust me, nothing but discipline gets you through the days with minimal sleep to keep staring at a sheet of paper for hours.
bonding comes from studying with other people. At one point or another you will need to develop this in your studies or professional life.
I don't see how dealing with authority is a good thing, but yeah you do when you see your exam corrected hahaha.
It seems you had awful learning experiences from your post.
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On May 23 2009 17:54 Etherone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2009 17:32 IntoTheWow wrote:On May 23 2009 17:18 BroOd wrote:
For many people, the army provides a certain strict discipline and guidance severely lacking in home life. There's male bonding, learning to deal with authority, performance under pressure, etc.
There are many cons to military life, but some of the pros are invaluable to a person lost in the world. You can get all that from studying too. Except physical training of course. i completely disagree. The reasons I disagree include: 1 discipline is not learned through studying but rather a requirement to being able to study, kind of like how mothers say you shouldn't sit close to the TV because it'll ruin your eyes, it's total bullshit, but if you do in fact sit very close to the TV your eyes are already ruined. 2. studying in and of itself does not bring male bonding, maybe the context in which you are studying but not the studying it's self 3 studying simply does not contribute much to learning to deal with authority, i merit this to the fact that learning empowers an individual and sometimes arrogance sets in with the knowledge, and although some measure of arrogance is good it does not help with learning to deal with authority. and no i am not trying to sound like an asshole, and I do generally agree that studying is a better alternative to joining the military.
I tend to agree with this guy. Altough I never went to the army, I think it would have been a better waste of time then flunking out of university a couple of times. Cheaper, too. Intothewow; I think you were able to pick up discipline a lot faster then the lot of us. Many of my friends flunked out of university as well. I don't think the army let you flunk out.
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I probably wouldn't mind if there was a manditory draft of service for every man in US like it used to be (and is for many other countries still).
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Some people simply aren't able to teach themselves discipline, even if they truly want to reform themselves and stop the procrastination bullshit.
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On May 23 2009 17:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:
There is no conscription in western Europe anymore.
I'm quite glad about it, have to say. I really dislike the whole military idea in general.
qft, I prefer having proffesional army to defend me and my country during war than bounch of random people who didn't want to study right after high school and were forced into it.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On May 23 2009 17:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:
There is no conscription in western Europe anymore.
I'm quite glad about it, have to say. I really dislike the whole military idea in general. There is in Germany :p Although it's a joke, because they end up selecting like 1/6th or so of the men -.-
I didn't have to do it either and for France I had to do the JAPD, but that's half a day lol
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I have served the minimum of 6months in finnish artillery. I didn't want to, but in finland you have to choose between military(6,9,12months) or civil service(12months) and i thought ill see it because it's most likely only 6 months and ill rather get new experience and do something for public "good" than sit for free in library for 12months.
Well what i can say, the most important thing i learned is that i got alot more knowledge about people in general because everybody are equal and you meet people from all social classes(my battery was so called thiefbattery, because alot people got crimeregister and 1 guy actually shot someone during the service on vacation ). Ofcourse as said before there is shitloads of stupid things in military but those things are mostly for reason even you cant realise it.
As said before i am alot more mature, have alot wider perspective of things etc, after all ill say that my military service was good thing for me but yeah multiply it by 2years and it will be most likely waste of time.
But for me time well spent :D!
Btw Conscription will be probably soon over in finland because we will most likely join nato in 10 years.
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Germany1306 Posts
I am not really sure it made me a better person but it was a very funny time I enjoyed alot. Not because of the army institution itself, but because of the goof friends i made there and because of the massive amount of sports you do there.
And you learn, from your officers, how to dodge any kind of work and still make it look like you did the whole job, which is not a "good" thing but can help you in your job 
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My aunt said that her brothers had become trustless and desolated after they had returned from the military service.
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EPT
