EPTI had been playing for about 10 games vs my friend using this strategy the past few nights, and from those replays, I found out that this build has a point where it is fairly weak. That timing is after the first vulture comes out till tanks come in play to secure the expansion. The terran rely on spidermines and vulture drops till the tanks are ready to defend. This window of weak defense can be hit hard if zerg goes fast overlord speed and fast range hydras with 1 sunken on each expansion and 2 hydras to defend against the vulture drop.
Position overlords in the ground path between terran and zerg for a fast hydra rush
Also if zerg knows the fantasy build is comming, what they can do is position their overlords on the path to the terran's base, in order to spot spidermines that way they don't even have to wait for overlord speed and hit terran hard with 6 hydras off 2 hatch before lair. If terran decide to make a wraith before dropship to kill those overlords they won't be looking at the path between the 2 bases, the wraiths goes straight into zerg base to scout or ovie hunt.
Now with that said, what can terran do to stop this? from the terran's point of view, he have 1st vulture out, run to zerg base, and found 1 sunken in natural, so he proceed to mine up a long the path between the 2 bases, he notice that the zerg is flowing slow overlords along the path between the 2 bases, so he brings his 1 marine out to make the zerg run those ovies back. But before the dropship finishes building 4 hydralisks comes to defend those slow overlords with 2 more hydralisks following. At this point terran is building an expansion, but no tank, 4 vultures 1 marine spider mine vs 6 hydralisks with overlords spoting.
Anyone else want to contribute to a possible counter vs Fantasy build?
This one possible counter given by testie
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 18 2008 11:36 MYM.Testie wrote:
You counter it by screwing over the fact that it isn't very mobile. It is one of the reasons people used to sacrifice an overlord to scout a terrans base. If you know it's coming, and you're used to playing against mech and have a keen sense of game control, you will not be bothered by it.
If it does not hurt you early and you play a heavy drone style, you will over-run it. Likewise, if there is no early expansion you can 2 hatch muta with well placed sunkens and muta-drone with well-placed overlords to completely obliterate it. Often being able to face the army and simply crush it repeatedly (not pushing into his base) while starving him.
The valkyries are not normally an issue due to the fact they take a long time to build and scourge are so very useful against them early. After a certain amount of mutas you can often cut all muta production together for a while and just hard drone+hard expand. So he cannot come out of his base. With this knowledge you must make sure drones going to expansions all over the map are not sniped. AKA overlord speed and no wasteful movements with your mutas. So essentially, in this slow to build strategy (the terrans), you can literally take the map with well placed overlords - muta - scourge - drone while eventually switching to mass hydras while the terran has likely not built enough tanks after scanning your mass air-drone build. You should have quite an economic advantage once he is able to really mobilize and finally come out. But by then, it should always be too late and you will crush the mech force repeatedly, or in the event you can't, have bought enough time to keep him running back and forth and starving him out through a mass econ style of guerrila warfare. i.e. muta+hydradrops around his armies.
While this can be said for all strategies, and there are some truly solid mech strategies out there, mech has always worked best as a surprise. Again, like most strategies, with small timing tweaks you can make mech seem nearly invincible. It is something you every Terran should have in their arsenal, and they need to know when and why to use it. From maps - to positions - even opponent can be a factor.
Defilers are also very good against it, very laaaaate game. Why late game? Most builds against mech don't have a proper transition period to defilers. As in, it leaves a weakness to be exploited to tech up to those units which take quite a while before they can be put into use effectively with plague. I recall beating a good mech terran with equal money in the past with muta-hydra turned into queen-broodling-hydra as well. So there are other options.
You counter it by screwing over the fact that it isn't very mobile. It is one of the reasons people used to sacrifice an overlord to scout a terrans base. If you know it's coming, and you're used to playing against mech and have a keen sense of game control, you will not be bothered by it.
If it does not hurt you early and you play a heavy drone style, you will over-run it. Likewise, if there is no early expansion you can 2 hatch muta with well placed sunkens and muta-drone with well-placed overlords to completely obliterate it. Often being able to face the army and simply crush it repeatedly (not pushing into his base) while starving him.
The valkyries are not normally an issue due to the fact they take a long time to build and scourge are so very useful against them early. After a certain amount of mutas you can often cut all muta production together for a while and just hard drone+hard expand. So he cannot come out of his base. With this knowledge you must make sure drones going to expansions all over the map are not sniped. AKA overlord speed and no wasteful movements with your mutas. So essentially, in this slow to build strategy (the terrans), you can literally take the map with well placed overlords - muta - scourge - drone while eventually switching to mass hydras while the terran has likely not built enough tanks after scanning your mass air-drone build. You should have quite an economic advantage once he is able to really mobilize and finally come out. But by then, it should always be too late and you will crush the mech force repeatedly, or in the event you can't, have bought enough time to keep him running back and forth and starving him out through a mass econ style of guerrila warfare. i.e. muta+hydradrops around his armies.
While this can be said for all strategies, and there are some truly solid mech strategies out there, mech has always worked best as a surprise. Again, like most strategies, with small timing tweaks you can make mech seem nearly invincible. It is something you every Terran should have in their arsenal, and they need to know when and why to use it. From maps - to positions - even opponent can be a factor.
Defilers are also very good against it, very laaaaate game. Why late game? Most builds against mech don't have a proper transition period to defilers. As in, it leaves a weakness to be exploited to tech up to those units which take quite a while before they can be put into use effectively with plague. I recall beating a good mech terran with equal money in the past with muta-hydra turned into queen-broodling-hydra as well. So there are other options.
Discuss plz
