• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:02
CEST 22:02
KST 05:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202540Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up5LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments3[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced55
StarCraft 2
General
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Cow Gallstones for sale Whastapp:+44 7944332320 Clem Interview: "PvT is a bit insane right now" Serral wins EWC 2025 Would you prefer the game to be balanced around top-tier pro level or average pro level?
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
How do you go up to people? How do the new Battle.net ranks translate? Nobody gona talk about this year crazy qualifiers? Help, I can't log into staredit.net BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread 9/11 Anniversary Possible Al Qaeda Attack on 9/11
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 595 users

Balance Update #15 - February 22, 2013

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 22 23 24 Next All
FYI: You can still make hellbats without the upgrade, you just can't transform in and out of them until you get the upgrade.
juicyjames *
Profile Joined August 2011
United States3815 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 01:16:20
February 23 2013 00:34 GMT
#1
+ Show Spoiler [Complete WoL to HotS Balance Changes] +
PROTOSS
  • Carrier
    • Interceptors can now change targets when they are in leash range.
  • Dark Shrine
    • The cost is now 150/150, down from 100/250.
  • Mothership
    • Recall teleports the Mothership and all nearby units owned by the player to the targeted Nexus.
    • The Vortex ability has been removed from the game.
    • New Ability: Time Warp.
      • Creates a temporal field that slows all enemy ground units’ movement speed within a 3.5 radius by 50%.
      • This ability costs 75 energy to cast
      • This ability can be cast from 9 range.
  • http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Mothership_Core
  • http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Oracle
  • Phoenix
    • Range increased from 4 to 5. Upgrade still grants +2 range.
  • Pylon
    • Warp-in on ramps downhill is now allowed. Warp-in to the high ground is not possible anymore.
  • Sentry
    • Hallucination no longer requires research.
  • Stalker
    • Blink research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.
  • http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Tempest_(unit)
  • Void Ray
    • Prismatic Beam
      • No longer charges up.
      • Weapon period decreased from 0.6 to 0.5.
      • No longer does passive +massive damage.
    • New Ability: Prismatic Alignment
      • Increases damage to armored units by 6 for 20 seconds, with a 1 minute cooldown. This does not scale with upgrades.
      • Activating the ability now causes a timer to display over the Void Ray for the duration of the effect.
    • Supply cost increased from 3 to 4.

TERRAN
  • Armory
    • The Armory now only has one armor upgrade for both air and ground upgrades for both Factory and Starport units.
  • Battlecruiser
    • Yamato Cannon energy cost decreased from 125 to 100.
  • http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Hellbat
  • Medivac
    • New ability: Ignite Afterburners
      • Speed boost that increases movement speed and acceleration to 4.25 for 8 seconds. 20 second cooldown.
  • Raven
    • Seeker Missile has been redesigned:
      • Energy cost decreased from 125 to 75.
      • Can now fire from 10 range.
      • Missile comes out and stays immobile in front of the Raven for 5 seconds while charging up, then rapidly moves and explodes at the target for 100 damage plus splash damage.
      • Targeted unit lights up red when targeted. If the unit moves 13 range out of where the Seeker Missile is, the Missile fizzles.
  • Reaper
    • New passive ability: Combat Drugs
      • Health regenerates 2hp/s if not attacked during the last 10 seconds (same as Protoss shields)
    • Health increased from 50 to 60.
    • Movement speed increased from 2.95 to 3.75.
    • No longer requires a Tech Lab Addon.
    • No longer have their anti-building grenades.
    • P-45 Gauss Pistol weapon damage decreased from 4 +5 vs. Light to 4.
  • Siege Tank
    • Siege Tanks no longer require an upgrade in order to enter Siege Mode.
  • Thor
    • 250mm Strike Cannons has been removed, along with its associated energy bar.
    • The Thor can now switch between two modes: High-Impact Payload and Explosive Payload. The mode shift takes 4 seconds.
    • When in High-Impact Payload mode, the Thor switches to a different anti-air gun (250mm Punisher Cannons) that has 10 range and deals 24 flat damage.
    • Thor radius, inner radius, and separation radius increased from 0.8215 to 1.
  • (Wiki)Widow Mine

ZERG
  • Creep Tumor
    • No longer spawn instantly, but instead have a three second spawning animation.
    • May now be placed on ramps.
  • Hatchery
    • The Evolve Burrow upgrade requirement has been moved to the Hatchery.
    • The Pneumatized Carapace upgrade now only requires a Hatchery.
  • Hydralisk
    • New Upgrade: Muscular Augments
      • Increases hydralisk off-creep speed from 2.25 to 2.81. Speed on creep unchanged (3.37)
  • Infestor
    • Fungal Growth:
      • Is now a projectile.
      • Speed of the projectile is 12.
      • Range up to 10.
      • Damage decreased from 30 +10 vs. Armored to 30.
  • Mutalisk
    • Speed increased from 3.75 to 4. Acceleration stays at 3.5.
    • New passive ability: Tissue Regeneration
      • Mutalisk health regeneration rate increased from .2734 to 1
  • Spine Crawler
    • This unit now completely blocks pathing when placed next to other structures, including other Spine Crawlers.
      • Zerglings and other small units can no longer squeeze in between Spine Crawlers.
    • The scale of this unit has been increased from 0.85 to 0.95.
  • Spore Crawler
    • This unit no longer requires an Evolution Chamber.
    • The weapon damage for Acid Spew has been increased from 15 to 15 + 15 vs. Biological.
  • http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Swarm_Host
  • Ultralisk
    • Damage changed from 15+20 armored to 35 flat damage.
  • (Wiki)Viper



UNLISTED PATCHNOTE: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400025

On February 24 2013 05:33 Zelniq wrote:
Source

Previously hellbats received +1 to non light/+2 to light with every attack upgrade but now the scaling has been changed to +2 to non light/+3 to light. Max attack hellbats should now 1 shot max armored zerglings and 3 shot max armored emped zealots instead of 4.

Now, Hellbat damage are the following, with the upgrades of :

      +0: 18 to non-Light, 30 to Light

      +1: 20 to non-Light, 33 to Light

      +2: 22 to non-Light, 36 to Light

      +3: 24 to non-Light, 39 to Light

This seems more of a 'fix' rather than a 'buff' since all damage upgrades in the game scale by 10% of the base damage rounded. That would also explain why it was forgotten in the patch notes.

I'd say if you really had a concern, it should be with the base damage rather than the upgrades, the upgrades just follow naturally for the most part (sadly, units in certain dmg ranges like the hydralisk get the short end of the stick when it comes to upgrades, since technically they should get 1.5 per upgrade to scale like other units do, but instead get 1, same as the marine which has half the base damage)


CLARIFICATION: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17865306

On February 23 2013 23:39 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Hellbats may be built when Armory is constructed.
Hellion transformation is available with Armory research.


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7979378171

Hi everyone,

This afternoon, we will be making the balance changes listed below. This will not require that we bring down the beta service. Thanks again for all the great feedback you've provided while testing Heart of the Swarm. We hope to see you testing these changes and sharing your input soon!

Terran

Hellion
  • Transformation to and from Hellbat Mode now requires the Transformation Servos upgrade from the Factory Tech Lab.
  • Transformation Servos requires an Armory and costs 150/150, with a 110 second research time.


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7923874068

Now that the highest skilled pro players have been playing the beta for a few weeks, we've been gathering pro level ladder data, pro feedback, as well as watching all the HotS tournaments/show matches that have been going on.

Out of everything we're seeing and hearing from pro players, we think the most important issue we need to deal with rather quickly is early game ZvT.

The biggest issue in the ZvT early game at the highest pro level seems to be the mass Hellion contain leading into the various potential mass Hellbat combinations right when the Armory comes into play. The time between Terran gaining full map control and then converting all their map control units into straight up power units looks to be too narrow.

Even without this threat, Terran has plenty of early game strategies to utilize vs. Zerg. We're most likely going to add the Hellion to Hellbat transformation upgrade back to the Factory Tech lab with an Armory requirement. This will give Zerg more time to scout and prep against possible Hellbat based attacks when they see lots of Hellions in play.


Poll: Balance Update #15 First Impressions?

Thumbs Up (322)
 
61%

Thumbs Down (165)
 
31%

No Thumbs (44)
 
8%

531 total votes

Your vote: Balance Update #15 First Impressions?

(Vote): Thumbs Up
(Vote): Thumbs Down
(Vote): No Thumbs

This Week in SC2Find out what happened 'This Week in Starcraft 2': http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=278126
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-23 18:19:29
February 23 2013 00:37 GMT
#2
Isn't it bad enough already that they have no thumbs to participate in your poll, must you really single them out as well?

~~

Seems like a reasonable change.

Yay we can make some use of zerglings in the early game again
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
February 23 2013 00:38 GMT
#3
On February 23 2013 09:37 Zelniq wrote:
Seems like a reasonable change.

Yay we can make some use of zerglings in the early game again


Yeah now don't have to rush a roach warren .
When I think of something else, something will go here
freerolll
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Belgium1056 Posts
February 23 2013 00:39 GMT
#4
OMG there goes my winrate :p
Always give without remembering & always receive without forgetting.
birchman
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Sweden393 Posts
February 23 2013 00:40 GMT
#5
Great, now there's a unit I'll never use again, which is a shame. Maybe they could change back the cargo slots in the medivac now, seeing as rushes will be severely delayed, that would mean that the unit would still have some use, but people would have that extra time to prepare for something of that caliber.
Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
February 23 2013 00:41 GMT
#6
And they didn't revert the cargo nerf, kim is so previsible -.-
Terran & Potato Salad.
bobsire
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada296 Posts
February 23 2013 00:41 GMT
#7
Good change i guess... but the cost should of been 100/100
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
February 23 2013 00:41 GMT
#8
Hooray for making changes they said they would make.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Corrosive
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3741 Posts
February 23 2013 00:42 GMT
#9
Sounds like a good change to me.
Maruprime.
Freeborn
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany421 Posts
February 23 2013 00:43 GMT
#10
First decent change in a while.
Would be ok to revert the cargo change soon I think.
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-23 00:44:40
February 23 2013 00:44 GMT
#11
Decent change, cargo nerf now should be rolled back
<-- Protoss player (victim)
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
murphs
Profile Joined April 2011
Ireland417 Posts
February 23 2013 00:46 GMT
#12
Don't see anyone paying 150/150 for that.
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-23 00:49:01
February 23 2013 00:47 GMT
#13
Yay, TvP mech viable again I guess.. At least fucking remove bio flag, no one is going to research this shit for 150/150 going bio or something.. Such a mess. Siege tech gone, hellbat requiring armory and cost 150/150/110, shared vehicle/air armor, but no attack.. Is it just me or are they completely clueless?
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
February 23 2013 00:48 GMT
#14
Zergs rejoicing everywhere
AKMU / IU
ledarsi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States475 Posts
February 23 2013 00:53 GMT
#15
I hope Blizzard has a major patch or three waiting in the wings, because it sure looks like they are drawing down on a final release with these increasingly incremental patches. The game is completely fubar, and they have accomplished NONE of their alleged goals of reducing protoss deathball play, making mech viable, etc.. It sure looks like they have no idea what they are doing, and don't even care that they are about to release what is really an extremely weak, weird, even seriously defective expansion.

Add to this the fact they never fixed any of the gameplay complaints about Wings of Liberty after release. The HOTS expansion was their big chance to correct their mistakes from WOL. And.... nothing.
"First decide who you would be, then do what you must do."
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
February 23 2013 00:53 GMT
#16
Also, Are they only watching TvZ for the first 10 minuts games?

...
archonOOid
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1983 Posts
February 23 2013 00:54 GMT
#17
I wish they would rename balance updates to gameplay changes. Also as many others have pointed out zerglings now might not be such a rare sight.
I'm Quotable (IQ)
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-23 00:55:52
February 23 2013 00:54 GMT
#18
On February 23 2013 09:53 Everlong wrote:
Also, Are they only watching TvZ for the first 10 minuts games?

...


Yeah what about maxed terran mech or air armies, or sky toss? :/
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
KamikazeDurrrp
Profile Joined January 2012
United States95 Posts
February 23 2013 00:59 GMT
#19
You can't have the hellbat research requirement and NOT roll back the cargo space nerf :O. If you can't get hellbats as quickly and not be able to do as much damage with them then that takes away one of the strongest points of hellbats, that they were really strong in the early-mid stages of the game.

Plus with a 150/150 cost? I don't know, I understand that people were mad that hellbats didn't have a gas cost but this is honestly too much. Now it's always better to go blue flame upgrade opening if you want to do an early game drop, and then hope that you did enough damage to transition in to hellbats midgame, or just go straight for hellbats and turtle.

On February 23 2013 09:47 Everlong wrote:
Yay, TvP mech viable again I guess.. At least fucking remove bio flag, no one is going to research this shit for 150/150 going bio or something.. Such a mess. Siege tech gone, hellbat requiring armory and cost 150/150/110, shared vehicle/air armor, but no attack.. Is it just me or are they completely clueless?


Wait I'm confused, nerfing hellbats makes TvP mech more viable? Doesn't it make it less viable? Maybe I'm just hallucinating here.
TheSwagger
Profile Joined June 2012
United States92 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-23 01:02:48
February 23 2013 01:00 GMT
#20
I'm totally okay with this as long as cargo goes back to its previous amount. Otherwise, complete and total nerfage into oblivion - which is always a huge disappointment. It just seems like theres now an overwhelming amount of stuff to do just to get one hellbat onto the field, once you have it researched you then have to do all of the building swapping if you want it to have a reactor... It just seems a little silly to me. "It's beta"
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
1 2 3 4 5 22 23 24 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RotterdaM Event
16:00
Rotti's All Random #2
RotterdaM1395
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1395
IndyStarCraft 244
UpATreeSC 127
Nathanias 55
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3351
Shuttle 874
Mini 464
ggaemo 364
Soulkey 325
Larva 259
BeSt 252
firebathero 206
Barracks 110
TY 102
[ Show more ]
Mong 88
Jaeyun 45
IntoTheRainbow 12
Dota 2
qojqva4446
capcasts185
League of Legends
Reynor103
Counter-Strike
fl0m2627
Stewie2K1458
byalli306
Foxcn168
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King57
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu585
Other Games
Grubby4439
Beastyqt634
KnowMe257
Pyrionflax86
Trikslyr79
ZombieGrub44
Sick41
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 296
• davetesta54
• Reevou 7
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 7
• FirePhoenix5
• blackmanpl 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22023
League of Legends
• TFBlade944
Other Games
• imaqtpie1937
• Shiphtur410
• WagamamaTV362
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 58m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
14h 58m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
18h 58m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 3h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 14h
Stormgate Nexus
1d 17h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
RotterdaM Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
HCC Europe
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.