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Update #2On February 06 2013 04:22 Code wrote:On the next page he also gives his thoughts on a few other things: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533624206?page=9#162Show nested quote +We don't think Hydralisks are weak at all. Hydralisks are one of the most frequently used units in the beta right now.
And for Protoss air, we are definitely seeing an increased usage in all Stargate units. Some of our thoughts are:
- Tempests maybe do too much damage to non massive units for their supply cost.
- New strategies will seem more OP than not naturally because they're new and they didn't used to do as much as they do now. We think this is a good thing at this point because how else would we introduce new, powerful options if every strategy just remain as it is?
- Not a lot of players are doing the run away during Voidray is charged up micro. Makes us think even top players are still not that used to fighting against the new Voidray.
- Surprisingly a lot of players still don't know that the Voidray ability doesn't do any extra damage vs. Hydralisks nor any other light units. Also makes us think it's way too early to make a judgement in saying Voidrays are OP.
- HotS tournaments are starting up, and we'd like to really make sure how all the new strategies in HotS turn out.
We are and will definitely be paying extremely close attention to the highest level tournament games in HotS in order to really make sure a lot of the community concerns and concerns we have on our end are actual problems.
Update 20:13 CET:
They're also thinking of buffing the widow mine against P!
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533624206?page=8#152
We're also playing with increasing the single target damage of Widow Mines from 125 to 125 + 35 shields to give it some more strength vs. Protoss.
David Kim posted potential incoming changes on the EU battle.net forums:
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6533624206
Hello everyone,
We're thinking on a few changes and wanted to get your thoughts as well. Please remember none of these are final.
Overlord speed upgrade moved down to tier 1
HotS has given a lot more tech options to all three races, and we feel scouting is more important than ever. Terran/Protoss already got their scouting buffs, and we felt Zerg could use one too. Keep in mind this isn't as crazy as it sounds because you still need to spend the extra 100/100 resources as well as 100 seconds to get this upgrade in tier 1.
Spore buff vs. bio (maybe 15 +15bio)
Fungal missile speed down a bit more
We think in ZvZ Mutalisks are a bit too dominant right now.We're realizing the Fungal Growth nerf was too much vs. Mutas and potentially not enough vs. other units.
Therefore, we think a +bio buff to Spores will only mostly affect Mutalisks to make room for ground based strategies in ZvZ. And we're hoping this gives us more room to nerf Fungal Growth a bit more. We feel units like Mutalisks, Hydralisks, or Ultralisks received significant buffs in Heart of the Swarm that it's probably ok to tone down the Infestor a bit more.
Oracle Envision duration increased from 30 seconds to 60 seconds
This one is to make this spell a bit more viable.
Only big change being overlord speed on tier 1 I think.
EDIT: Spore buff won't affect ZvZ so much, because when people have a big enough muta flock they basically oneshot spores anyway. Envision is rarely used. Could see more use with that change but I doubt it.
Don't know about fungal nerf.
What do you guys think?
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Overlord speed change shouldn't affect too much. Burrow change was bigger IMO and that hasn't had much an effect so far.
Spore buff is good as well as infestor nerf.
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On February 05 2013 03:37 HelloSon wrote:
Overlord speed change shouldn't affect too much. Burrow change was bigger IMO and that hasn't had much an effect so far.
Spore buff is good as well as infestor nerf.
If they want more burrow play earlier on, I wouldn't be surprsied if they decreased the research time on it. Right now it's 80 seconds for Lair and 110 for burrow.
Also, 37 days until official HotS release! Can't wait myself. Hopefully the game will be decently balanced (I expect a day 1 patch). Here's to another 3 years
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they are making much smaller changes now, i think hots needs a couple more big patches
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I like the envision buff, 30 seconds was just not really long enough to comfortably shut down DT rushes especially since it costs 50 energy and you'd rather be building void rays or phoenix for PvP defense. It will be easier to cover more ground now, making builds like 2g stargate expand even more viable.
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Bisutopia19397 Posts
On February 05 2013 03:37 HelloSon wrote:
Overlord speed change shouldn't affect too much. Burrow change was bigger IMO and that hasn't had much an effect so far.
Spore buff is good as well as infestor nerf.
It's only big is if zergs decide now that they have speed on overlords that once lair is done then researching drop tech might become more standard.
@Spore buff, I was like wtf is bio and flying at first lol (was only thinking ZvP, ZvT.
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So when are they going to buff zerg AA so we can actually win against sky toss late game?
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The envision duration increase makes sense in my opinion.
I'm interested to see how the Zerg changes pan out. Seems like they are focused on smaller problems now, indicating they are overall quite happy with the state of the beta.
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They're still avoiding fundamental issues with units that it's really getting absurd, they're doing the small stuff before the big changes.... We'll get through beta and still have broken units at this rate :/
Fungal sounds ehh.. the problem isn't if it hits or not, just the effect it has. You're never going to miss fungals in a 200/200 fight...So I don't really understand this line of thinking, it just makes casting the spell harder than it should be for absolutely no reason :/ I think the spore buff sounds good for some variance, or at least attempted variance in ZvZ. Oracle envision doesn't really help because 30 is all you need to make a 2nd one+robotics--> observer... Don't really have an opinion too much on overlords, seems fine.
I guess we will see though....!
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So, the one thing everyone is saying is that Zerg is to weak vs any mass air play from either terran or toss in later stages of the game, and they think scouting something we cannot stop is going to help us out ?
Really I wanna know how to beat sky terran, havent seen it been done so far.
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On February 05 2013 03:41 EleanorRIgby wrote:
they are making much smaller changes now, i think hots needs a couple more big patches
Most probably afraid of doing such drastic changes when HOTS is so close to release.
If they were to do a big patch, I would love for them to add in Scourge for zerg to deal with all these new air units
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On February 05 2013 03:47 Buffy wrote:
So, the one thing everyone is saying is that Zerg is to weak vs any mass air play from either terran or toss in later stages of the game, and they think scouting something we cannot stop is going to help us out ?
Really I wanna know how to beat sky terran, havent seen it been done so far.
Ditto, and they do realize that infestors are fine now because it is actually possible to win without them now. Since I started playing beta i rarely make investors outside of zvz anymore.
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I really was expecting more and bigger changes,but it seems they wont do them.
Agree with all new changes.Its ok for Zerg to scout better and Oracle as well,but I still wait for TvP Mech improvements.No buff to siege tanks?Free siege is not enough.Tanks shoot slower and weaker than immortals and the HP are pretty low...Just buff their vs Mech damage....
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I don't understand, they say they dislike too much muta in ZvZ and at the same time they want to reduce fungal speed? Won't that increase muta play even more..?
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Spore buff is going to be the biggest change.
Spores will now kill Mutas in 5 hits (4 assuming there's a queen by it).
Basically when the first 8 or so Mutas pop out for Zerg, one spore at each base will shut down Muta harass HARD. Notice your opponent going for a mass Muta flock? Just toss down another spore at your bases and you have 2 static defenses dealing 30 damage a piece. I almost feel like the change will kill Muta play since spores will absolutely demolish them.
Looking at the change though, I feel like Blizzard is missing a huge opportunity to just buff the fucking Hydralisk against air.
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... Wow I have to say how disappointing. Spore buff is meh. I am fine with zvz staying muta wars there are way more pressing issues then that rofl. No nerfs to void rays. Wonder how long till they realize how broken they are en mass.
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I'm absolutely shocked that they're not taking the nerf bat to the hellbat (pun most definitely intended.) IMO (and evidenced by the post I made earlier about fast hellbat drops in TvZ) the hellbat seems a little too strong when combined with medivacs right now.
I will say though, I'm absolutely loving the new raven hunter seeker changes. I've started going double tech starport in every matchup because of how good they are now!
Roach/hydra/viper, meet your beeping doom, muahahahah!
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On February 05 2013 03:51 sagefreke wrote:
Spore buff is going to be the biggest change.
Spores will now kill Mutas in 5 hits (4 assuming there's a queen by it).
Basically when the first 8 or so Mutas pop out for Zerg, one spore at each base will shut down Muta harass HARD. Notice your opponent going for a mass Muta flock? Just toss down another spore at your bases and you have 2 static defenses dealing 30 damage a piece. I almost feel like the change will kill Muta play since spores will absolutely demolish them.
Looking at the change though, I feel like Blizzard is missing a huge opportunity to just buff the fucking Hydralisk against air.
Not to be a dick, but this changes nothing, you can still not move out from your base, and if you see them mass spores you can just take another base and keep map control, this will change nothing except the initial 8 mutas, when the muta flock is at 24 and you have ling / bane with speed banes and ultras, and he is maxxed on his hydra roach army, you are still dead.
Only thing this will possibly change is the fact that muta vs muta doesnt never end up in a baserace again
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I'm not sure about buffing Zerg scouting... I like there to be more option between taking risks and playing safe, and Zerg should have to build some units to be safe against anything if they can't scout everything. Buffing scouting just lets Zergs Drone more confidently, which I don't think is a good thing.
When the opponent can scout really easily, it basically limits
They're buffing mutas and buffing some things to counter them, but other ground units don't do well enough against them. Stalkers, Hydras and Thors in particular, I think need to be buffed as alternative ground-to-air. But I like the Nerf to fungal and the spore buff against Mutas, since Infestors are actually a very strong ground-to-air unit and they are the only unit that really shouldn't be since they have a massive amount of utility in their root.
I hope we can see a little Hydra buff.
Oracle Envision... Seems like a good change. I never see it used.
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EPT
