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I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. I will still cheer for GSL players mainly because I know them, and partly because a little competition among the fans is good. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I
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- What we see now does not mean anything. The game is way too young in the hands of the KeSPA players. We should see how things have developed until next year imo.
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My conclusion would be that you cannot draw conclusion from such a small sample of games. We should wait for a year or so of competition until we start to evaluate. Let's just wait and see what happens....
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I said that too, which is why I am excited to see what's more. But we can already clearly draw certain observations, like the ones I mentioned.
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Real question: Why do you think such a small series of one-off games offers any conclusive insight into the play of KeSPA players?
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To soon to jump onto conclusions.
But anyway,
1. Fantasy's micro in protecting his marines + sniping banelings was impressive.
2. To me some are on the same level already (Roro, Effort, Jaedong, Fantasy, By.sun, CJhero), but they lack some general gamesense sometimes.
3. Flash didn't impress me that much either, he seems like macro hard and try to overpower the opponent with pure macro. Didn't see any harass. But ill give him some time, he is a practice beast.
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Don't know why you say Fantasy's micro is the best you have seen. I have seen better than that many times from MKP,Taeja,Mvp. I didn't see how Ty outclassed Parting in any area too. Parting just defended his drop easily.
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On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I know nothing about him except that sc1 people consider him the best, but this is proof that sc1 skill does not immediately and totally translate to sc2 skill.
5. We have entered the First Golden Age of Starcraft, with the two powerhouses in Korea competing and cooperating. I can't wait for more.
What are your observations or things who learned from the matches?
1) Duh. They weren't rumors, everyone knew BW players have much better mechanics.
4) "Flash is nothing special" ........ what? Also, in his interview he just said he is practicing SC2 full time now. Prepare yourselves.
5) Yes, the beta phase is over.
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All but your comment on Flash seems reasonable. Based on his short SC2 career, and this particular game, you judge that he is nothing special? Of course he is something very special. He is known as the Ultimate Weapon in BW for a reason. People might have been wrong in their prediction that he will dominate the fastest, but I can guarantee you, he will be one of the very best in the near future.
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5003 Posts
Flash is god tier in BW cause of his game sense, not because of his mechanics or whatever. players like Baby has always had fantastic mechanics and multitasking, while Flash is someone who just knows what you're doing and will destroy you cause he knows way too well what's going on in the game. Obviously it's going to take time for him to be impressive in a new game, and he even mentions that in an interview about how he needs a year or two to be god tier.
Saying stuff like "THIS IS EVIDENCE SC1 SKILLS DONT TRANSLATE IMMEDIATELY TO SC2" is pretty silly really. Give it time instead of being like "Oh he's nothing special" ~_~;
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4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I know nothing about him except that sc1 people consider him the best, but this is proof that sc1 skill does not immediately and totally translate to sc2 skill.
Let' s just say he is the Best BW player and the last Bonjwa (at the momment Fantasy is better, but he was the best from late 2008-2011) He won a WCG, 3 OSLs, 3 MSLs and a couple of BW GSLs (which I think were underrated)
He is special because he just practices more. If other BW players practice 12 hours he practices 14. A lot of BW pros are saying that he constantly practices for 14 hours a day. Once his practice kicks in he will be the best once again (if he works as hard as he did in BW)
and
Can somebody give me link to the game with Fantasy marines (It's a thing now!)
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There are no lessons to be learned in this thread. Further, it isn't even a finished OP, it ends with:
"4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I"
It's like saying that my reply here should be titled "What we have learned from Dr" and leave it at that.
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On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I know nothing about him except that sc1 people consider him the best, but this is proof that sc1 skill does not immediately and totally translate to sc2 skill.
5. We have entered the First Golden Age of Starcraft, with the two powerhouses in Korea competing and cooperating. I can't wait for more.
What are your observations or things who learned from the matches?
1. So true.
2. KESPA players are not ahead, but they're not behind. Both do not have an equal chance to improve only the KESPA players do. The ESF/GOM/Foreign players had 2 years, and the KESPA players caught up and surpassed their micro/macro/multitasking in a new game in what 4 serious months of practice. The only thing they're missing are some subtleties about how units work against one another (armored / light ect). The ESF/GOM/Foreign players were second rate before and they will be now, not for any one given reason, but they won't "improve." Meanwhile
3. Experience counts, but for how long? If they had trouble this soon, how long before they can't manage a single win in a BO7?
4. Flash God -> Wrist/Shoulder problems -> Surgery -> New Game -> Physical Therapy -> Metal replacement arm -> 10 more golds
5. Sure
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On August 29 2012 01:43 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I know nothing about him except that sc1 people consider him the best, but this is proof that sc1 skill does not immediately and totally translate to sc2 skill.
5. We have entered the First Golden Age of Starcraft, with the two powerhouses in Korea competing and cooperating. I can't wait for more.
What are your observations or things who learned from the matches? 4) "Flash is nothing special" ........ what? Also, in his interview he just said he is practicing SC2 full time now. Prepare yourselves.
Exactly. I'm 100% sure that ESF players don't practice 14 hours a day maybe 8
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There is clear flaws in your arguement, saying that SC1 players are just overall better, sure, maybe Fantasy will be have 5 GSL titles by the end of 2013.
BUT, you can see how other A-teamers like Hyun, who while he switched midway and has become a high Code A / Low Code S, but he isn't at the top, same goes with Forgg, he won an MSL or OSL, and yet he have yet yielded major results, he made Code S, he defeated some foreigners at Assembly, IEM and the other tournament in Germany recently.
And you draw this out of 1 game with NesTea and Fantasy, while we can look at some other games from other pros, let's take MarineKing, he played awful and lost 2-0 to Trimaster, now does this mean that Trimaster has become a top Code S guy/MLG contender?
No, he went onto get crushed by other players straight afterwards.
And the majority of the Kespa players who did well in WCG are the fairly unknown, none of the really big names have yet to show their skill in SC2, sure Flash won today, and his looked good, but today was his first time where he went up against a SC2 player and won ( I didn't see the game).
And also about multitasking, you comparing NesTea? he was always known as a brilliant mind, but with poor mechanics in comparison to other pro-gamers, thats why he never achieved much success in SC1, and very much early on in SC2.
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On August 29 2012 01:46 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I know nothing about him except that sc1 people consider him the best, but this is proof that sc1 skill does not immediately and totally translate to sc2 skill.
5. We have entered the First Golden Age of Starcraft, with the two powerhouses in Korea competing and cooperating. I can't wait for more.
What are your observations or things who learned from the matches? 2. KESPA players are not ahead, but they're not behind. Both do not have an equal chance to improve only the KESPA players do. The ESF/GOM/Foreign players had 2 years, and the KESPA players caught up and surpassed their micro/macro/multitasking in a new game in what 4 serious months of practice. The only thing they're missing are some subtleties about how units work against one another (armored / light ect). The ESF/GOM/Foreign players were second rate before and they will be now, not for any one given reason, but they won't "improve." Meanwhile
2. Well they still have to practice BW at least 20% of the time.
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fantasy vs. nestea game showed a lot. i think only young and skilled starcraft 2 players will survive.
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On August 29 2012 01:48 Hiea wrote:
BUT, you can see how other A-teamers like Hyun, who while he switched midway and has become a high Code A / Low Code S, but he isn't at the top, same goes with Forgg, he won an MSL or OSL, and yet he have yet yielded major results, he made Code S, he defeated some foreigners at Assembly, IEM and the other tournament in Germany recently.
The thing people don't seem to understand is that it's not the skill the player acquired from BW that makes him special it's the practice and KESPA players simply have a better practice enviroment.
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On August 29 2012 01:43 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I know nothing about him except that sc1 people consider him the best, but this is proof that sc1 skill does not immediately and totally translate to sc2 skill.
5. We have entered the First Golden Age of Starcraft, with the two powerhouses in Korea competing and cooperating. I can't wait for more.
What are your observations or things who learned from the matches? 1) Duh. They weren't rumors, everyone knew BW players have much better mechanics. 4) "Flash is nothing special" ........ what? Also, in his interview he just said he is practicing SC2 full time now. Prepare yourselves. 5) Yes, the beta phase is over.
Why the harsh tone? I was neutral in all this and you come out frothing in the mouth like that?
Specific replies:
1. They were rumors to me and to others like me who haven't watched a single sc1 game in my life and don't know who these guys are.
4. Even you will admit that based on that game there was nothing special about him at all. I am not saying that he has no skills. I even recognize his sc1 reputation. I just exemplified him to conclude that the skill transfer is not automatic. And read #2 and 5. I do not assume this to be their final skill level, and even I am excited at the eventual increase in talent in the competition in general.
Peace bro, we are just discussing here.
By the way, Happy birthday! :D
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Great mechanic is not something exclusive to Kespa players. Imo there could be players with great mechanic from both sides. There're already many SC2 pros who have great mechanic. DRG and MKP for example.
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EPT
