EPTLessons from OSL Kespa vs GOM competition - Page 5
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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Baalthersar
Germany239 Posts
Be patient and enjoy the games. Some things to take into consideration the fastest player is not necceseraly the best player. The amount of Data/vods for the gsl players is far larger. The Gameknowledge for the gsl players is bigger since they played more and encountered more. Best of 1 does not always mean that the winner is the stronger overall player. Competition is good for all. And If we are lucky maybe some great builds and strategies will come out of it. | ||
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habeck
1120 Posts
On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote: I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. I will still cheer for GSL players mainly because I know them, and partly because a little competition among the fans is good. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned: 1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable. 2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust. 3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game. 4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I Really? Nestea never was very fast + he is quite old. Fantasy micro isnt best you've seen, you probably saw only this game. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
Nestea vs Fantasy: Epic drop made possible by epic fail. BaBy vs PartinG: 2010 called, they want their strategy back. Flash vs San: The game that actually showed us most, told us that top KeSPA players can beat mid-tier eSF players, but we knew that already. Edit: How San made it this far is the greatest mystery of all. Somehow he went through a decent bracket and then caught both Symbol and ByuN derping, all while fail to qualify for Code A 6 seasons in a row. | ||
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dofz
Norway98 Posts
On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote: 1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable. Parting dealt with it fine, when terran goes for that kinda strategy ofcourse he cant hold it perfect since he doesnt have the units needed for it, but he dealt with it fine without losing too much, and then just rolled over him | ||
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winthrop
Hong Kong956 Posts
 NesTea vs  Fantasy, there is a timing terran can abuse medivacs and that map is retarded for zerg, not NesTea'S  Fault.also PartinG vs BaBy, all he needs to do is force field the ramp as BaBy did not fast expand, antidrop is not the most important, also there is map abuse as same as NesTea vs Fantasy, the force field placements are more crucial.in First game JangBi vs DRG, the guardian shield against zerglings reminded me Trickster =.=Anyway, entombed valley should be removed from tournament map pool as soon as possible | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On August 29 2012 04:40 Sinensis wrote: Flash is extremely special. Considering he only very recently switched to Sc2 the fact that he is able to beat someone who has been a full time pro since the beta in a big tournament already is insane. I agree Flash is great and have incredible potential, but beating San is the exact opposite of "insane". San failed to qualify for Code A in 6 straight seasons, which means he haven't been able to claim to be a top 50 player for a year. If you look up "sane" in dictionary, a talented pro-gamer beats someone like San is listed as a definition. | ||
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
The multitasking of fantasy looked amazing cause nestea did a pisspoor job defending it. If you are talking about multitasking, what about the 2k mins fantasy was floating on? And dont give me the 'fantasy likes saving minerals' bullshit ive heard.] DRG didnt win with 'slyness'. he just outplayed jangbi on every part of the game. He was winning so badly it almost looked like he was just toying with him. Flash isnt anything special, sure, but I didnt see anyone claiming he was. Most people where excited about the kespa pros who did well in wcs korea. Everyone wants to see flash do well, but I def dont have the feeling he is being hyped alot atm. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On August 29 2012 04:46 []Phase[] wrote: heh didnt agree with anything really. The multitasking of fantasy looked amazing cause nestea did a pisspoor job defending it. If you are talking about multitasking, what about the 2k mins fantasy was floating on? And dont give me the 'fantasy likes saving minerals' bullshit ive heard.] DRG didnt win with 'slyness'. he just outplayed jangbi on every part of the game. He was winning so badly it almost looked like he was just toying with him. Flash isnt anything special, sure, but I didnt see anyone claiming he was. Most people where excited about the kespa pros who did well in wcs korea. Everyone wants to see flash do well, but I def dont have the feeling he is being hyped alot atm. To be fair, JangBi game was over the second he clicked on Guardian Shield. Unless you expecting him to do that again anytime soon, we should just pretend that game never happened when evaluating performance. | ||
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
On August 29 2012 04:47 ragz_gt wrote: To be fair, JangBi game was over the second he clicked on Guardian Shield. Unless you expecting him to do that again anytime soon, we should just pretend that game never happened when evaluating performance. Alright ill give you that, tho judging from the game overall id say DRG was still going to win it anyways. The point is that he didnt need the slyness to win, janbi just happened to make a stupid mistake and drg capitalised on it, but even without the mistake or the 'slyness' as the OP calls it, it wouldve still made Jangbi look like a noob compared to DRG | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On August 29 2012 04:46 []Phase[] wrote: heh didnt agree with anything really. The multitasking of fantasy looked amazing cause nestea did a pisspoor job defending it. If you are talking about multitasking, what about the 2k mins fantasy was floating on? And dont give me the 'fantasy likes saving minerals' bullshit ive heard.] DRG didnt win with 'slyness'. he just outplayed jangbi on every part of the game. He was winning so badly it almost looked like he was just toying with him. Flash isnt anything special, sure, but I didnt see anyone claiming he was. Most people where excited about the kespa pros who did well in wcs korea. Everyone wants to see flash do well, but I def dont have the feeling he is being hyped alot atm. Yeah, I just watched the Fantasy Nestea game, and although Fantasy did a good job with mult-pronged medivac harass, I hardly think his gameplay was like Bomer macro+MMA multitask+MKP control (which some people have actually said, don''t know if it was in jest though). I'm not bashing any player, or trying to incite a debate. Good (but not stellar) play from Fantasy, and typically horrible drop defense by Nestea. Again, we need to see more games, and I can't wait to see how this all turns out. HOTS should shake things up a lot more, it being a brand new game and all! | ||
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On August 29 2012 04:45 ragz_gt wrote: I agree Flash is great and have incredible potential, but beating San is the exact opposite of "insane". San failed to qualify for Code A in 6 straight seasons, which means he haven't been able to claim to be a top 50 player for a year. If you look up "sane" in dictionary, a talented pro-gamer beats someone like San is listed as a definition. A lot of people would say San is better than his GSL performance. People were saying he is something like the best protoss outside of GSL a while back. Look it up. But that isn't so relevant, the point is that San is still a very good player with lots of experience. How many foreigners with a few months of practise do you see beating him? What about GSL pros? It is quite insane how quickly the Kespa pros have progressed. | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On August 29 2012 04:34 winthrop wrote: 1. NesTea vs Fantasy, there is a timing terran can abuse medivacs and that map is retarded for zerg, not NesTea'S Fault.also PartinG vs BaBy, all he needs to do is force field the ramp as BaBy did not fast expand, antidrop is not the most important, also there is map abuse as same as NesTea vs Fantasy, the force field placements are more crucial.in First game JangBi vs DRG, the guardian shield against zerglings reminded me Trickster =.=Anyway, entombed valley should be removed from tournament map pool as soon as possible Sorry, but it was NEsteas fault. I remember when Nestea was with the marines at a cliff. Neste sends all lings/banes. Fantasy loads in and drops on the other side of the cliff, NEstea sends everything again, etc... . He had queens nearby and could have focused the medivacs. Or split his lings. It is not the first time I see Nestea outmiltitasked and Nestea has always had some games like this. | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On August 29 2012 05:03 Dionyseus wrote: No one practices harder than Kespa pros, it's just a matter of time before they dominate every event. In order for them to do that, Kespa would have to let them off their leash. | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
Hero vs Roro at Cloud Kingdom is the other example. Ofcourse it was a very entertaining match, but Hero played ~10 times worse than what I saw from him. I think the GOM-Players are very anxious if they play vs Kespa-Players. Me too, if I play vs Grubby or Stephano, I would play worse than against random, because they are legend/excellent. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8313 Posts
On August 29 2012 03:40 ragz_gt wrote: It's fun to get excited and all... but seriously, today's game were pretty terrible compared to games we had in WCS, by both KeSPA and eSF players. Not the best set of examples to draw conclusions from. Fortunately the RESULTS were some of the best we could've hoped for. Anything could happen in the remaining days but it's a start at least at producing a wicked RO8 | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8313 Posts
On August 29 2012 05:10 Dingodile wrote: We should notice that many GOM Players didnt play good vs KesPA, especially the WCS Korea Games. One example is Genius vs Jaedong at Ohana. Hero vs Roro at Cloud Kingdom is the other example. Ofcourse it was a very entertaining match, but Hero played ~10 times worse than what I saw from him. I think the GOM-Players are very anxious if they play vs Kespa-Players. Me too, if I play vs Grubby or Stephano, I would play worse than against random, because they are legend/excellent. That was not LiquidHero that was CJHerO[JOIN] | ||
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mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
I am more impressed with Flash`s macro. | ||
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