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On August 29 2012 01:58 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 01:55 vthree wrote:On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. I will still cheer for GSL players mainly because I know them, and partly because a little competition among the fans is good. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I lol, not sure how Parting was out micro'ed and multi-tasked. Baby went for a 1 base double front attack that did basically nothing. And Fantasy's macro slipped while he was dropping. He still played a good game but people are overhyping it a lot. Fantasy's macro didn't slip, he has said he sometimes lets minerals build up on purpose, so he can build more of the units he wants.
lol, still trolling? Banking only makes sense if you actually have enough production to spend your bank quickly.
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I think a quote from DBZ Abridged is fitting.
"Krillen! Too soon!"
Let us wait a while before we draw conclusions. No need to be hasty
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On August 29 2012 01:51 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 01:43 xrapture wrote:On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I know nothing about him except that sc1 people consider him the best, but this is proof that sc1 skill does not immediately and totally translate to sc2 skill.
5. We have entered the First Golden Age of Starcraft, with the two powerhouses in Korea competing and cooperating. I can't wait for more.
What are your observations or things who learned from the matches? 1) Duh. They weren't rumors, everyone knew BW players have much better mechanics. 4) "Flash is nothing special" ........ what? Also, in his interview he just said he is practicing SC2 full time now. Prepare yourselves. 5) Yes, the beta phase is over. 4. Even you will admit that based on that game there was nothing special about him at all. I am not saying that he has no skills. I even recognize his sc1 reputation. I just exemplified him to conclude that the skill transfer is not automatic. And read #2 and 5. I do not assume this to be their final skill level, and even I am excited at the eventual increase in talent in the competition in general. By the way, Happy birthday! :D
As I've said I don't believe Flash is 'talented' he just works a lot harder than everybody else and also knows how to practice correctly.
Ohh and he is smart that helps to especially for understanding how the game works.
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Parting got out-micro'ed and out-multitask'ed? I guess I didn't watch the same game as you then.
Nestea got rolled, and San's play was pretty bland. Yeah in turn, some Kespa players will become the best in the world but I still think ESF players of high caliber have a huge edge over Kespa players.
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Fantasy's micro was good, but not "the best ever" good... I've seen MKP, MMA, MVP and others do much more impressive things with their marines. I mean, all Fantasy did was stutter steping his marines back till the banes catch up and then load them into medivacs.
Also I don't agree that Parting was outclassed. Quite the opposite. He had the perfect answer to all of the TY's attacks, every time knew how to split his army perfectly, never missed a forcefield etc, etc. I didn't see him struggle in any part of the game.
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Really look at Flash playing sc2 just of now. I say with no shame that he has the best macro and resource management showed up to date in sc2. It's really off the hook and when he can use that + his overall mechanics with alot better understanding of sc2 (aka understand the game inside and out) he will rise to god tier once again.
I would also wanna add that he is like the hardet working progamer and he also have alot of great help from KT Rolster's coaching staff aswell on his side.
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On August 29 2012 02:13 FeyFey wrote:
well if kespa players take over it is mostly due to their training, if gsl player will fall behind one thing will be cut. Going to international events. You notice that someone that attends multiple events falls off, with just a really small amount of players able to do it and keep their level (imagine if they would only train lol).
If against all odds, kespa players would also enter international events (more then only a few) the training thing would be evened out a little.
I have seen a few cute moves by kespa players, nothing impressive, i found it rather impressive that this isn't standard in pro level. But the rule seems to be, doesn't have to be done if no one else does it.
At the end i would put the chances higher into korea sheltering itself away in the competition and the international scene will lose the korean fan boy viewers. But from what i saw is that we might end up seeing more micro. (pulling medivacs away when dropping a protoss that is tying to snipe the medivac. bringing stalkers in the full marine range, easy to see easy to do)
It's also interesting how differently the kespa players evolve, depending how much help they get from the current sc2 players. And funny when they are confronted with something they didn't knew.
Can't wait though till the first mass fungaled group of marines will be completly saved due to medivac cloud kiting ... kidding.
Overall they have proven that they are pros, nothing special. Would have actually counted them out if they couldn't win Bo1s against ESF players after such a long preparation time.
At the end Fantasy will win everything anyway ! ... But MvP too they will have eternal draws in the finals.
Nothing special? The record between Kespa and ESF is something like 18-13 in WCS Korea and OSL. Who else could have pulled that off in that time frame and while still playing some BW?
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Canada16217 Posts
On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. I will still cheer for GSL players mainly because I know them, and partly because a little competition among the fans is good. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I
Parting wasn't out classed in mutli tasking all his opponent did were basic pressure at the front with a drop in the main/natural, the way entombed works well with drops due to spawns, I would not say he was out multi-tasked with something so basic because anyone can do pressure at the front while dropping.
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On August 29 2012 02:20 Gosi wrote:
Really look at Flash playing sc2 just of now. I say with no shame that he has the best macro and resource management showed up to date in sc2. It's really off the hook and when he can use that + his overall mechanics with alot better understanding of sc2 (aka understand the game inside and out) he will rise to god tier once again.
Flash had good macro. But honestly, he went for a super early 3rd that was unpunished and then both sides just went passive. I am sure a lot of terrans could macro like that in such a passive game.
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I'd say Flash was pretty impressive today showing what he can already do with his sc2 macro when not harassed, he basically got 40-50 supply ahead of San just from pure macro. When his BW game sense start kicking in with more knowledge he's gonna be scary.
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On August 29 2012 01:58 oneofthem wrote:
Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of May 2012
yea, nothing to see here.
What does that have to do with anything? This is extremely off-topic and an idiotic reply. Ironic, considering your post count and what you've implied by noting how long he has been on the site.
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On August 29 2012 02:22 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 02:13 FeyFey wrote:
well if kespa players take over it is mostly due to their training, if gsl player will fall behind one thing will be cut. Going to international events. You notice that someone that attends multiple events falls off, with just a really small amount of players able to do it and keep their level (imagine if they would only train lol).
If against all odds, kespa players would also enter international events (more then only a few) the training thing would be evened out a little.
I have seen a few cute moves by kespa players, nothing impressive, i found it rather impressive that this isn't standard in pro level. But the rule seems to be, doesn't have to be done if no one else does it.
At the end i would put the chances higher into korea sheltering itself away in the competition and the international scene will lose the korean fan boy viewers. But from what i saw is that we might end up seeing more micro. (pulling medivacs away when dropping a protoss that is tying to snipe the medivac. bringing stalkers in the full marine range, easy to see easy to do)
It's also interesting how differently the kespa players evolve, depending how much help they get from the current sc2 players. And funny when they are confronted with something they didn't knew.
Can't wait though till the first mass fungaled group of marines will be completly saved due to medivac cloud kiting ... kidding.
Overall they have proven that they are pros, nothing special. Would have actually counted them out if they couldn't win Bo1s against ESF players after such a long preparation time.
At the end Fantasy will win everything anyway ! ... But MvP too they will have eternal draws in the finals. Nothing special? The record between Kespa and ESF is something like 18-13 in WCS Korea and OSL. Who else could have pulled that off in that time frame and while still playing some BW?
Have you seen the BW games? I think stars vs KT was all one base play coming from stars...
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On August 29 2012 02:26 Darneck wrote:
I'd say Flash was pretty impressive today showing what he can already do with his sc2 macro when not harassed, he basically got 40-50 supply ahead of San just from pure macro. When his BW game sense start kicking in with more knowledge he's gonna be scary.
He was 25-30 ahead mainly due to the early third and San playing scared and getting a late 3rd. Yes, his macro was good but it was not a tier above any good terran.
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On August 29 2012 02:26 Darneck wrote:
I'd say Flash was pretty impressive today showing what he can already do with his sc2 macro when not harassed, he basically got 40-50 supply ahead of San just from pure macro. When his BW game sense start kicking in with more knowledge he's gonna be scary.
He wasn't harassed the whole time, and he double expanded way earlier then san so ye he is going to have a way better economy that way. Its like letting zerg get to 70-80 drones.
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I believe that flash is pretty good just by seeing that game, did you see the timing of the upgrades?, the macro advantage in a 2 bases vs 2 bases, he literally kill san with 1a moves and just by macro power. And well san is a pro gamer, oh is possible such a diference?
Yes I agree that strategy wise would be much better to do some drops and make some more kiting but in the end he looks like he was on 3 bases and san on 2, and he doesn't have insta warps ins or stuff like that,.
And milkies said that he isn't even that good at that ...
Just seeing that games I believe that in short time the kespa players with rape the eSF players, I really don't wan't but it seems that the eSF players should practice more as Boxer told them
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On August 29 2012 02:15 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 01:58 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 01:55 vthree wrote:On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. I will still cheer for GSL players mainly because I know them, and partly because a little competition among the fans is good. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I lol, not sure how Parting was out micro'ed and multi-tasked. Baby went for a 1 base double front attack that did basically nothing. And Fantasy's macro slipped while he was dropping. He still played a good game but people are overhyping it a lot. Fantasy's macro didn't slip, he has said he sometimes lets minerals build up on purpose, so he can build more of the units he wants. lol, still trolling? Banking only makes sense if you actually have enough production to spend your bank quickly.
Or when you haven't decided between higher tech or additional production. Of course you being so new to the scene, you don't know Fantasy much. It just seems to make more sense that he would bank up, if he has stated he likes to do it, rather than his macro slipping that bad.
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Why hating on KeSPA players because you don't like KeSPA? It's not like they make management decisions.. I usually like KeSPA players because good mechanics are my favorite thing to watch...
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On August 29 2012 02:31 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 02:15 vthree wrote:On August 29 2012 01:58 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 01:55 vthree wrote:On August 29 2012 01:30 Twinkle Toes wrote:
I had to take time before posting this to make sure what I write is at the very least objective and not a rant of a moronic hater. I admit, during the games, and perhaps even tomorrow, I will cheer as hard for ESF players against KeSPA, screaming every now and then things like "Go roll this noob" or "lol ESF > KeSPA". But all that is just for hype and nothing personal at all. I will still cheer for GSL players mainly because I know them, and partly because a little competition among the fans is good. Anyway, having established that, I want to have a little discussion on what we observed and learned from the first day of official clash between the highly regarded sc1 players and our heroes, the "seniors" of sc2. Here's what I learned:
1, Fuck micro and multitask. The rumors are true, in terms of micro and multitask, indeed sc1 >>> sc2 players.. Nestea and even Parting where simply outclassed in these areas. Parting won, but only because he had the good sense to see what Ty was doing and and the right reaction to it. Fantasy's marine micro might be the best I've seen, better than MMA even, and those drop harass + macro is impeccable.
2. Kespa players are not ahead, not yet. It is safe to say that GSL players still have a very slight advantage. I will not speculate whether it will hold or Kespa will take over. Both have an equal chance to improve at this point, so let's see how they adjust.
3. Experience counts. DRG and Parting won by sheer force of slyness and knowledge of the game.
4. Flash is nothing special. I will not speculate what is happening to him since I lol, not sure how Parting was out micro'ed and multi-tasked. Baby went for a 1 base double front attack that did basically nothing. And Fantasy's macro slipped while he was dropping. He still played a good game but people are overhyping it a lot. Fantasy's macro didn't slip, he has said he sometimes lets minerals build up on purpose, so he can build more of the units he wants. lol, still trolling? Banking only makes sense if you actually have enough production to spend your bank quickly. Or when you haven't decided between higher tech or additional production. Of course you being so new to the scene, you don't know Fantasy much. It just seems to make more sense that he would bank up, if he has stated he likes to do it, rather than his macro slipping that bad.
And you know I am new to the scene because?
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On August 29 2012 02:25 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 02:20 Gosi wrote:
Really look at Flash playing sc2 just of now. I say with no shame that he has the best macro and resource management showed up to date in sc2. It's really off the hook and when he can use that + his overall mechanics with alot better understanding of sc2 (aka understand the game inside and out) he will rise to god tier once again. Flash had good macro. But honestly, he went for a super early 3rd that was unpunished and then both sides just went passive. I am sure a lot of terrans could macro like that in such a passive game.
Today was not his first official game of sc2 you know...
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On August 29 2012 02:39 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 02:25 vthree wrote:On August 29 2012 02:20 Gosi wrote:
Really look at Flash playing sc2 just of now. I say with no shame that he has the best macro and resource management showed up to date in sc2. It's really off the hook and when he can use that + his overall mechanics with alot better understanding of sc2 (aka understand the game inside and out) he will rise to god tier once again. Flash had good macro. But honestly, he went for a super early 3rd that was unpunished and then both sides just went passive. I am sure a lot of terrans could macro like that in such a passive game. Today was not his first official game of sc2 you know...
Yes, I saw the game vs Kal that took KT out of the playoff picture.
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EPT
