EPT
Lessons from OSL Kespa vs GOM competition - Page 6
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
| ||
|
Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
On August 29 2012 01:40 massivez wrote: 3. Flash didn't impress me that much either, he seems like macro hard and try to overpower the opponent with pure macro. Didn't see any harass. But ill give him some time, he is a practice beast. I assure you, you'll see micro. Flash is not a 1-dimensional macro player. Very good game sense, very good strategies, very good macro, very good micro. All I learned from today is though is that KeSPA and ESF should stop with this grudge bullshit and merge. If not merge, AT LEAST work together. | ||
|
mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
| ||
|
rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On August 29 2012 05:41 mrtomjones wrote: Oh god dude. lol. Kespa mechanics are NOT better universally. I saw plenty of things that they did wrong or moments when macro slipped. How can you argue that Parting was out micro'd when HE had the harder job to do? Defending those drops and the pressure at the front is harder for the Protoss than the Terran. Drg won because Jangbi was not experienced enough and had nothing to do with superior mechanics on either side although Jangbi made at least 3 bad mechanical errors, I can easily attribute those to a lack of experience since he started SC2 last. Nestea just looked BAD and has been rolled by multiple good and bad Terran players lately so that is not an example of BW mechanics winning. Fantasy's play looked very good with his dropship harass, but he had excess minerals on hand and that strategy hasnt worked against Zerg like that in ages. As for ManZenith vs Flash.. Flash picked a clever build and San decided he could win that without getting Storm which he couldnt, so between the good and the bad San got rolled. I've read some funny things in my time here... Yes kespa mechanics are better universally. It's really not possible for anyone to argue that. What esf players have to their advantage is build orders, timings, how to execute an attack etc. They have experience on their side, not raw hand speed. | ||
|
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
| ||
|
mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On August 29 2012 05:44 rysecake wrote: I've read some funny things in my time here... Yes kespa mechanics are better universally. It's really not possible for anyone to argue that. What esf players have to their advantage is build orders, timings, how to execute an attack etc. They have experience on their side, not raw hand speed. Wow ignorance at its worst. It is nice to know that literally every BW player has better mechanics than EVERYONE else. So ignorant. It is very possible to argue that but not with someone who has already made up their mind, so I am done here. | ||
|
mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On August 29 2012 05:45 jinorazi wrote: i dont get fantasy's multidrop dont matter since nestea didnt manage it right argument. terran's dropships drop regardless of zerg being prepared or not. if there are mutas out terran will adapt. zerg's preparedness dont discredit terran's attempt at multitasking. its either it does damage or not, it does not take away multitasking. I think the argument most people who are downplaying it is that Nestea should have been in a better spot to handle those and even in the spot he was in he should have done better. Fantasy had some pretty sick 3 pronged harass going though so no one should take away from that. | ||
|
rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On August 29 2012 05:45 mrtomjones wrote: Wow ignorance at its worst. It is nice to know that literally every BW player has better mechanics than EVERYONE else. So ignorant. It is very possible to argue that but not with someone who has already made up their mind, so I am done here. It's not ignorance, it's truth. You remember mvp in his prime? You remember those mechanics? You seem to forget nestea, drg, and parting are all ex bw players. Remember flash's interview saying nestea was a genius in bw, but he just didn't have the mechanics to execute his brilliance? So the argument is a-team mechanics > b-team mechanics? Yes I think this one is pretty obvious. I'm not saying kespa > gsl players. I'm saying kespa mechanics > gsl mechanics. Plus from your post history it seems pretty blatant you're a hardcore esf fan. Who's talking about bias now? And before you go ahead and call me a bw fanboy, I entered the starcraft scene with sc2. | ||
|
Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On August 29 2012 05:44 rysecake wrote: I've read some funny things in my time here... Yes kespa mechanics are better universally. It's really not possible for anyone to argue that. What esf players have to their advantage is build orders, timings, how to execute an attack etc. They have experience on their side, not raw hand speed. Fantasy reach 2k minerals because of his amazing mechanic, sure. | ||
|
rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On August 29 2012 05:50 Faust852 wrote: Fantasy reach 2k minerals because of his amazing mechanic, sure. Someone should tell him what reactors are lol | ||
|
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
when u got 4 bases and busy doing a battle, you're going to pool money in matter of seconds. if they got 1k, 2k minerals and spend it all in the next 5 seconds, its not bad macro. | ||
|
Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
On August 29 2012 05:49 rysecake wrote: It's not ignorance, it's truth. You remember mvp in his prime? You remember those mechanics? You seem to forget nestea, drg, and parting are all ex bw players. Remember flash's interview saying nestea was a genius in bw, but he just didn't have the mechanics to execute his brilliance? So the argument is a-team mechanics > b-team mechanics? Yes I think this one is pretty obvious. I'm not saying kespa > gsl players. I'm saying kespa mechanics > gsl mechanics. Plus from your post history it seems pretty blatant you're a hardcore esf fan. Who's talking about bias now? And before you go ahead and call me a bw fanboy, I entered the starcraft scene with sc2. Generally yes, kespa mechanics > esf. And MVP in his prime didn't have insane mechanics as you said, MVP never was a mechanical player...he's super smart and just wins like Nestea. They both arren't that fast, MVP maxes at like 180-190 eapm. But on the other hand you got players like DRG,Hero,Taeja,Supernova who all got 200+ eapm - getting even to 220-230. Mechanics don't even matter all that much, in the recent IEM games Yongwha had an average of ~210 eapm every game and he lost to those pesky EU zergs who have like 170-180. MVP had around ~150-170. Fantasy showed some great multitasking but I think what was more important is that Nestea was having a hard time defending all that. | ||
|
Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On August 29 2012 05:59 jinorazi wrote: it actually annoying to hear people bashing players of pooling money, especially zerg when they're suppose to pool money. when u got 4 bases and busy doing a battle, you're going to pool money in matter of seconds. if they got 1k, 2k minerals and spend it all in the next 5 seconds, its not bad macro. Fantasy plays zerg? don't think so. Terran should never got 2k minerals until they are maxed. | ||
|
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 29 2012 06:06 Faust852 wrote: Fantasy plays zerg? don't think so. Terran should never got 2k minerals until they are maxed. reading comprehension error? where did i say fantasy. shit happens, having 2k minerals for reasonable time is not a big deal. | ||
|
DidYuhim
Ukraine1905 Posts
On August 29 2012 06:06 Faust852 wrote: Fantasy plays zerg? don't think so. Terran should never got 2k minerals until they are maxed. Terran also never has more bases than zerg does. Fantasy was a better player, in the end. You should not be figuring "who is better" or "who will dominate". "Elephant meter" should be checked few tournaments later. It's no point in arguing over things that didn't happen. At least, not yet. I really enjoyed Nestea vs Fantasy game, since that was the only game where one of the players was not outclassed by another. Rest games were really, really wide apart. Let's hope in time both KeSPA and ESF manage to produce high quality games. The only game that actually could've been better, is JangBi vs DRG. He lost the game because of the mis-click, which may happen at every level of play. | ||
|
Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
This is what i expected to happen, really. In terms of mechanics and multitasking they should be better (on average), because they are used to it in bw, while esf players are a lot more 'in the game'; against kespa players they need their knowledge about the game and decisionmaking to get the edge. This is not necessarily a consequence of talent, but above all of how things played out. Kespa players need to work on the game itself, while esf players need to work on mechanics and multitasking. This was mostly on average, there are of course exceptions to the rule. | ||
|
mrRoflpwn
United States2618 Posts
| ||
|
thOr6136
Slovenia1775 Posts
| ||
|
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 29 2012 06:32 mrRoflpwn wrote: My analysis from not even watching the games is that we should all be afraid of foreign players losing relevancy in their play- why would I watch the average foreigner when I can just turn on a VOD of the OSL or GSL and see someone who is far superior? i watched every game of grrr and elky during their days, i'm always rooting for foreigners in korean leagues. i'm sure foreigners will step up their game or get recruited into korean teams in the long run | ||
|
BlitchizSC2
United States306 Posts
| ||
| ||
