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1, No way to bind a basic attack now.
- What the heck? How basic is this and it doesnt work. You've had 6 years on the game and even have builds built around basic attacks. Yet you can't even BIND it to a key now. This means Demon hunters cant even use melee weapons.
2. Skill UI is worse now.
-See the huge feedback on the beta forums. Can't rebind left/right clicks to any other keys, forced to use them which causes problems when trying to run instead of attack etc. Also much harder to navigate, taking up the entire screen and using too many nested windows.
- Can't swap skill hotkeys, aka if you want to switch your left cilck skill with right click skill you can't
SO basically after 6+ years and the "retail" test version coming out, the BASIC FUNCTIONALITY IS NOT WORKING.
3. NO chat channels for communities or guilds - aka making a "teamliquid" channel. Also the chat window is extremely small.
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What's a reason to use a basic attack? Fundamentals for the DH and Virtuoso for Wizard are the only skills I know that encourage basic attacks, and both skills seemed like they were fated to be pretty crappy because there were much better alternatives for generating resources that far outweighed the versatility of an extra skill. Why deal a 100% damage attack for hatred when you can do hungering arrow for the same amount of hatred and pierce effect or a magic missile for up to 150% weapon damage.
Also a DH can use melee weapons, there are some hatred generators that don't require a bow. Actually screw that even, how would you make a melee DH pre-patch any better? Auto-attacks in D3 plain sucked so a melee DH stuck using auto-attacks would be laughably bad anyways.
As it is now you can make a melee weapon DH and rely on skills like Spike Trap, Impale, etc that don't need a bow equipped to use. Auto-attacks have nothing to do with that.
I'm pretty sure you could even say bind impale to LMB and once you run out of hatred you'll auto-attack instead of impale. That's what it does when skills are on cooldown at least.
I'm fine with them putting back in a way to force auto-attack, but you're being overly dramatic about a minor (at best) oversight.
So my melee DH would be Impale (LMB), Chakram/Fan of Knives (RMB), Spike Trap (1, and optional), then discipline skills to fill everything else out. So Bam: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#ZWhdUQ fully functional melee DH build (minus runes and traits).
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Why do you think you have to open another thread for this, when it fits perfectly well in the patch 13 thread, the one you opened, you know?
Unless your opinion is more important, that is.
Either way your first two points I consider minor issues and both of them are probably going to be fixed/tweaked. Chat channels I couldn't care less, but sure, cannot hurt to make it like in Sc2. But to that I can also point you to the Patch 13 thread, where I was talking about the problems with Wc3/SC-like chat.
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I agree. They always come up with something totally awesome, then start messing with it and fail on such basic things like binding skills to hotkeys you want, delivering convenient UI and so on. I really hope they fix it because it would be really below their level if this was final version.
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On February 21 2012 03:17 dacthehork wrote:
the BASIC FUNCTIONALITY IS NOT WORKING.
Functionality is different than "I think it should work differently. It works exactly like THEY want it to, just not like YOU want it to. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I trust Blizzard more than I trust a few people in the beta to determine best game design.
If they made it so you need to hit '1' and click instead of just right-clicking to attack, you'd complain a lot. If they made it so you had to spam '1' to attack instead of right clicking, others would complain that clicking is easier (you might not, but people would). That, and it could be that having a targetted 'move' command (a command which makes you move even when targetting an enemy) conflicts with how they've coded abilities, and that recoding would require a TON more retesting and more delays which would bring (you guessed it) complaints. The fact that you see no obstacles to what you describe as 'basic functionality' says more about how much you've considered your ideas than it does about blizzard's ability to design games.
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I wonder if you are in beta or if you've read what Jay Wilson said about this patch cause you can bind any skill you want to any of the unlocked slots.
By default the skills are separated in 4 categories, but if you don't like it that way you just have to enable "elective mode" in game's options and you can put any skill you want on the unlocked slots (and mouse 1 or 2).
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On February 21 2012 06:21 Turage wrote:
I wonder if you are in beta or if you've read what Jay Wilson said about this patch cause you can bind any skill you want to any of the unlocked slots.
By default the skills are separated in 4 categories, but if you don't like it that way you just have to enable "elective mode" in game's options and you can put any skill you want on the unlocked slots (and mouse 1 or 2).
His complaint is accurate. You can bind (almost) any skill to any slot*, but you now have 6 buttons to perform combat actions and 6 skills. There is no way to bind LMB to auto-attack and have 6 skills afaik.
*Some skills, like caltrops can't be bound to the mouse.
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Since I play patch 13, my faith in Blizzard is restored. They finally managed to get a deep skill system which will keep us do the math for years to come. The UI isn't perfect yet but better than as it was at the initial Beta release.
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On February 21 2012 06:43 [F_]aths wrote:
Since I play patch 13, my faith in Blizzard is restored. They finally managed to get a deep skill system which will keep us do the math for years to come. The UI isn't perfect yet but better than as it was at the initial Beta release.
you mean the built in runestones? i prefer having them drop from creeps because eventually the "hdin" style runes that everyone wants will have a high demand. it feels much more like diablo when you can barter your rare items instead of just being handed them as you level up.
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You can't bind caltrops to mouse 1 due to the nature of the spell, you won't be able to move until you are out of discipline, but you can bind it to mouse 2 just fine.
And about the autoatack i can't see why he complains, you don't use autoatack anyway, and you autoatack by default when you are out of resources.
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Another crazy episode in the totally ridic and tragic soap opera that is Diablo 3. Stay tuned everyone, they might just find a way to F up one of the biggest slam-dunk game releases in history. 
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This ui is beyond retarded, the patch 12 ui was so well organized and accessible. This is just pure and utter garbage
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The old skill menu was much more streamlined, but where would the runes have gone in it? Blizzard added an extra level of complexity and needed to redesign the menus to handle it, although I do kind of agree that Blizzard fell into the same trap lots of recent games have. No one wants to click through 6 different menus to see information that should be displayed on one page.
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On February 21 2012 06:55 Turage wrote:
You can't bind caltrops to mouse 1 due to the nature of the spell, you won't be able to move until you are out of discipline, but you can bind it to mouse 2 just fine.
And about the autoatack i can't see why he complains, you don't use autoatack anyway, and you autoatack by default when you are out of resources.
Various classes have passives that buff the primary attack, usually making it grant huge resources when used.
The new rune system is obviously garbage,meant for casuals and console idiots that cant handle a deep and involved system..
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For those of us not blessed with a Beta key, could someone please provide screenshots of the changes, preferably before/after?
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On February 21 2012 07:32 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 06:55 Turage wrote:
You can't bind caltrops to mouse 1 due to the nature of the spell, you won't be able to move until you are out of discipline, but you can bind it to mouse 2 just fine.
And about the autoatack i can't see why he complains, you don't use autoatack anyway, and you autoatack by default when you are out of resources. Various classes have passives that buff the primary attack, usually making it grant huge resources when used. The new rune system is obviously garbage,meant for casuals and console idiots that cant handle a deep and involved system..
Can you elaborate on that? Seems like I miss your that oh so "obvious" part.
You still got the same amount of different skills available - the difference now. You actually get all of them by level 60 instead of grinding runestones forever. On top of that, when you want to change your skill setup you can easily do so with the new system, as you can just select the skills' different Rune versions. Before, you would've to remove your current Runes and place them into the skill you wanna play with next. Later on you're going to have alot different Runes duo to the fact that there were 7 levels of them (lvl 6/7 super rare) and 5 different types. So one setup may require 5 runes of one certain type, while another one may require 5 different runes etc. That could become quite the hassle, even if you wouldn't switch your skills too regularly.
So what about that is meant for casuals? Is it "skillfull", "deep" and "involved" to grind for runes, i.e. have luck? Or does that go for the part where you prove your amazing inventory management?
Because if that's what declares you some kind of hardcore player then I have no doubt that Blizzard doesn't give a shit if the new rune system doesn't appeal to the likes of you.
There's nothing great about making inventory management etc. a hassle - nothing. That's not a fun activity either, so even as a "pro player" you shouldn't long for something like that.
But when you talk about "garbage, meant for casuals and console idiots that cant handle a deep and involved system" that actually says enough.
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On February 21 2012 07:48 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 07:32 Medrea wrote:On February 21 2012 06:55 Turage wrote:
You can't bind caltrops to mouse 1 due to the nature of the spell, you won't be able to move until you are out of discipline, but you can bind it to mouse 2 just fine.
And about the autoatack i can't see why he complains, you don't use autoatack anyway, and you autoatack by default when you are out of resources. Various classes have passives that buff the primary attack, usually making it grant huge resources when used. The new rune system is obviously garbage,meant for casuals and console idiots that cant handle a deep and involved system.. Can you elaborate on that? Seems like I miss your that oh so "obvious" part. You still got the same amount of different skills available - the difference now. You actually get all of them by level 60 instead of grinding runestones forever. On top of that, when you want to change your skill setup you can easily do so with the new system, as you can just select the skills' different Rune versions. Before, you would've to remove your current Runes and place them into the skill you wanna play with next. Later on you're going to have alot different Runes duo to the fact that there were 7 levels of them (lvl 6/7 super rare) and 5 different types. So one setup may require 5 runes of one certain type, while another one may require 5 different runes etc. That could become quite the hassle, even if you wouldn't switch your skills too regularly. So what about that is meant for casuals? Is it "skillfull", "deep" and "involved" to grind for runes, i.e. have luck? Or does that go for the part where you prove your amazing inventory management? Because if that's what declares you some kind of hardcore player then I have no doubt that Blizzard doesn't give a shit if the new rune system doesn't appeal to the likes of you. There's nothing great about making inventory management etc. a hassle - nothing. That's not a fun activity either, so even as a "pro player" you shouldn't long for something like that. But when you talk about "garbage, meant for casuals and console idiots that cant handle a deep and involved system" that actually says enough.
The first level runestone for every color and type was way more significant than the bonus the levels actually gave you. If you wanted to apply a rune to a skill you got, you pretty much could right as soon as you entered act 2 of normal.
In fact there was an entire crafting mechanic that would use up spare runestones you found, and there used to be more bag space before as well to accomodate this. Its gone now presumably because it was too complex or just not ready and they had to give it the axe to rush the game.
Now if there is a rune ability that you really want to get, but it doesnt get unlocked until way down the road, like hell mode, you are fucked. Before you could just socket a rune whenever you picked up a rune of that color (and you would very easily because stones were an intrinsic drop in the game, no real "luck" involved). And a rune could have just been consumed by the UI when applied to a skill honestly, no need for an inventory element to always be around.
Before there was little luck in whether or not you were able to unlock a rune ability you wanted, now there is a huge amount of luck involved around Blizzard designing the class you wanted to play in a way that you liked.
And what of the end game?
Before we had: skill ranks, gear, gems, enchants.
Now we have: gear, gems.
Way too simplified. D2 was a much richer game than D3 at this point. Gems alone cant support the end game. They dont do nearly enough interesting things. Now the current changes are fine, I just wish they would start adding things back into the game, they have deleted a LOT of diablo 3 these last 4 beta patches.
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Popular amendments to the current rune system/patch 13 are as follows:
Unlock all runes for a skill the moment the skill is unlocked. This prevents people who wanted a certain rune early from getting fucked.
Skill advancement system of any kind. Something, anything.
Ability to remap basic attack. Or just fix the god awful UI in general. The guy who designed it should be fired. I can't believe someone looked at it and went "Yup, thats a good system, Im proud of it."
If going to remove runes as drops, we need to add something to the game to stop it from being a game where you pickup or trade for loot, and then gem it. Its not that two end game tasks are bad. It is just that we have that game already. Its been done. We've all moved on.
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I'm pretty sure they rushed out this skill and chat UI and that many of these issues will be addressed in later beta builds, let alone release.
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On February 21 2012 10:14 Lysenko wrote:
I'm pretty sure they rushed out this skill and chat UI and that many of these issues will be addressed in later beta builds, let alone release.
Yeah, it was rushed and is most likely incomplete. The reason I feel this way is purely due to the time-frame they have been working on. The revamp to the rune system was a major change. It was not like some minor adjustments that I at least was imagining. No, they revamped the core of the system which the system alone is a major portion of what makes Diablo III the game it is.
So what most likely happened is this; the developers decided on the change after not being satisfied with how the skill and progression of the game works. Mostly has to do with the 30-60 level'ing and how it feels. So, they decided to change it up. Which also caused the delay of the game further (since the earlier delay was hinted to being primarily due to Rune system (or it being one of the main reasons, and RMAH not being one of them).
The development team needed to get the core mechanics for the game out. Which is what we see now; this is the more simplistic version of the system UI. It was given to us most likely due to Blizzard wanting to release the game without further delays. So the UI of the rune, the UI and problem with the chat system is due to it simply not being a finished project. It is the skeleton of what ought to be worked on later (although I believe the chat, since quite broken, will be patched prior to release).
Yes, I do not have any Blue posts to back my theory up. And I do not claim that it is the absolute truth (so I can very well be mistaken). But the way the UI looks, Blizzards desire to ship this (removing Mystic instead of delaying game to for it to be reworked), shows at least the mentality of Blizzard.
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EPT
