1, No way to bind a basic attack now. - What the heck? How basic is this and it doesnt work. You've had 6 years on the game and even have builds built around basic attacks. Yet you can't even BIND it to a key now. This means Demon hunters cant even use melee weapons.
2. Skill UI is worse now. -See the huge feedback on the beta forums. Can't rebind left/right clicks to any other keys, forced to use them which causes problems when trying to run instead of attack etc. Also much harder to navigate, taking up the entire screen and using too many nested windows.
- Can't swap skill hotkeys, aka if you want to switch your left cilck skill with right click skill you can't
SO basically after 6+ years and the "retail" test version coming out, the BASIC FUNCTIONALITY IS NOT WORKING.
3. NO chat channels for communities or guilds - aka making a "teamliquid" channel. Also the chat window is extremely small.
What's a reason to use a basic attack? Fundamentals for the DH and Virtuoso for Wizard are the only skills I know that encourage basic attacks, and both skills seemed like they were fated to be pretty crappy because there were much better alternatives for generating resources that far outweighed the versatility of an extra skill. Why deal a 100% damage attack for hatred when you can do hungering arrow for the same amount of hatred and pierce effect or a magic missile for up to 150% weapon damage.
Also a DH can use melee weapons, there are some hatred generators that don't require a bow. Actually screw that even, how would you make a melee DH pre-patch any better? Auto-attacks in D3 plain sucked so a melee DH stuck using auto-attacks would be laughably bad anyways.
As it is now you can make a melee weapon DH and rely on skills like Spike Trap, Impale, etc that don't need a bow equipped to use. Auto-attacks have nothing to do with that.
I'm pretty sure you could even say bind impale to LMB and once you run out of hatred you'll auto-attack instead of impale. That's what it does when skills are on cooldown at least.
I'm fine with them putting back in a way to force auto-attack, but you're being overly dramatic about a minor (at best) oversight.
So my melee DH would be Impale (LMB), Chakram/Fan of Knives (RMB), Spike Trap (1, and optional), then discipline skills to fill everything else out. So Bam: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#ZWhdUQ fully functional melee DH build (minus runes and traits).
Why do you think you have to open another thread for this, when it fits perfectly well in the patch 13 thread, the one you opened, you know?
Unless your opinion is more important, that is.
Either way your first two points I consider minor issues and both of them are probably going to be fixed/tweaked. Chat channels I couldn't care less, but sure, cannot hurt to make it like in Sc2. But to that I can also point you to the Patch 13 thread, where I was talking about the problems with Wc3/SC-like chat.
I agree. They always come up with something totally awesome, then start messing with it and fail on such basic things like binding skills to hotkeys you want, delivering convenient UI and so on. I really hope they fix it because it would be really below their level if this was final version.
On February 21 2012 03:17 dacthehork wrote: the BASIC FUNCTIONALITY IS NOT WORKING.
Functionality is different than "I think it should work differently. It works exactly like THEY want it to, just not like YOU want it to. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I trust Blizzard more than I trust a few people in the beta to determine best game design.
If they made it so you need to hit '1' and click instead of just right-clicking to attack, you'd complain a lot. If they made it so you had to spam '1' to attack instead of right clicking, others would complain that clicking is easier (you might not, but people would). That, and it could be that having a targetted 'move' command (a command which makes you move even when targetting an enemy) conflicts with how they've coded abilities, and that recoding would require a TON more retesting and more delays which would bring (you guessed it) complaints. The fact that you see no obstacles to what you describe as 'basic functionality' says more about how much you've considered your ideas than it does about blizzard's ability to design games.
I wonder if you are in beta or if you've read what Jay Wilson said about this patch cause you can bind any skill you want to any of the unlocked slots. By default the skills are separated in 4 categories, but if you don't like it that way you just have to enable "elective mode" in game's options and you can put any skill you want on the unlocked slots (and mouse 1 or 2).
On February 21 2012 06:21 Turage wrote: I wonder if you are in beta or if you've read what Jay Wilson said about this patch cause you can bind any skill you want to any of the unlocked slots. By default the skills are separated in 4 categories, but if you don't like it that way you just have to enable "elective mode" in game's options and you can put any skill you want on the unlocked slots (and mouse 1 or 2).
His complaint is accurate. You can bind (almost) any skill to any slot*, but you now have 6 buttons to perform combat actions and 6 skills. There is no way to bind LMB to auto-attack and have 6 skills afaik.
*Some skills, like caltrops can't be bound to the mouse.
Since I play patch 13, my faith in Blizzard is restored. They finally managed to get a deep skill system which will keep us do the math for years to come. The UI isn't perfect yet but better than as it was at the initial Beta release.
On February 21 2012 06:43 [F_]aths wrote: Since I play patch 13, my faith in Blizzard is restored. They finally managed to get a deep skill system which will keep us do the math for years to come. The UI isn't perfect yet but better than as it was at the initial Beta release.
you mean the built in runestones? i prefer having them drop from creeps because eventually the "hdin" style runes that everyone wants will have a high demand. it feels much more like diablo when you can barter your rare items instead of just being handed them as you level up.
You can't bind caltrops to mouse 1 due to the nature of the spell, you won't be able to move until you are out of discipline, but you can bind it to mouse 2 just fine. And about the autoatack i can't see why he complains, you don't use autoatack anyway, and you autoatack by default when you are out of resources.
Another crazy episode in the totally ridic and tragic soap opera that is Diablo 3. Stay tuned everyone, they might just find a way to F up one of the biggest slam-dunk game releases in history.
The old skill menu was much more streamlined, but where would the runes have gone in it? Blizzard added an extra level of complexity and needed to redesign the menus to handle it, although I do kind of agree that Blizzard fell into the same trap lots of recent games have. No one wants to click through 6 different menus to see information that should be displayed on one page.
On February 21 2012 06:55 Turage wrote: You can't bind caltrops to mouse 1 due to the nature of the spell, you won't be able to move until you are out of discipline, but you can bind it to mouse 2 just fine. And about the autoatack i can't see why he complains, you don't use autoatack anyway, and you autoatack by default when you are out of resources.
Various classes have passives that buff the primary attack, usually making it grant huge resources when used.
The new rune system is obviously garbage,meant for casuals and console idiots that cant handle a deep and involved system..
On February 21 2012 06:55 Turage wrote: You can't bind caltrops to mouse 1 due to the nature of the spell, you won't be able to move until you are out of discipline, but you can bind it to mouse 2 just fine. And about the autoatack i can't see why he complains, you don't use autoatack anyway, and you autoatack by default when you are out of resources.
Various classes have passives that buff the primary attack, usually making it grant huge resources when used.
The new rune system is obviously garbage,meant for casuals and console idiots that cant handle a deep and involved system..
Can you elaborate on that? Seems like I miss your that oh so "obvious" part. You still got the same amount of different skills available - the difference now. You actually get all of them by level 60 instead of grinding runestones forever. On top of that, when you want to change your skill setup you can easily do so with the new system, as you can just select the skills' different Rune versions. Before, you would've to remove your current Runes and place them into the skill you wanna play with next. Later on you're going to have alot different Runes duo to the fact that there were 7 levels of them (lvl 6/7 super rare) and 5 different types. So one setup may require 5 runes of one certain type, while another one may require 5 different runes etc. That could become quite the hassle, even if you wouldn't switch your skills too regularly.
So what about that is meant for casuals? Is it "skillfull", "deep" and "involved" to grind for runes, i.e. have luck? Or does that go for the part where you prove your amazing inventory management? Because if that's what declares you some kind of hardcore player then I have no doubt that Blizzard doesn't give a shit if the new rune system doesn't appeal to the likes of you. There's nothing great about making inventory management etc. a hassle - nothing. That's not a fun activity either, so even as a "pro player" you shouldn't long for something like that.
But when you talk about "garbage, meant for casuals and console idiots that cant handle a deep and involved system" that actually says enough.
On February 21 2012 06:55 Turage wrote: You can't bind caltrops to mouse 1 due to the nature of the spell, you won't be able to move until you are out of discipline, but you can bind it to mouse 2 just fine. And about the autoatack i can't see why he complains, you don't use autoatack anyway, and you autoatack by default when you are out of resources.
Various classes have passives that buff the primary attack, usually making it grant huge resources when used.
The new rune system is obviously garbage,meant for casuals and console idiots that cant handle a deep and involved system..
Can you elaborate on that? Seems like I miss your that oh so "obvious" part. You still got the same amount of different skills available - the difference now. You actually get all of them by level 60 instead of grinding runestones forever. On top of that, when you want to change your skill setup you can easily do so with the new system, as you can just select the skills' different Rune versions. Before, you would've to remove your current Runes and place them into the skill you wanna play with next. Later on you're going to have alot different Runes duo to the fact that there were 7 levels of them (lvl 6/7 super rare) and 5 different types. So one setup may require 5 runes of one certain type, while another one may require 5 different runes etc. That could become quite the hassle, even if you wouldn't switch your skills too regularly.
So what about that is meant for casuals? Is it "skillfull", "deep" and "involved" to grind for runes, i.e. have luck? Or does that go for the part where you prove your amazing inventory management? Because if that's what declares you some kind of hardcore player then I have no doubt that Blizzard doesn't give a shit if the new rune system doesn't appeal to the likes of you. There's nothing great about making inventory management etc. a hassle - nothing. That's not a fun activity either, so even as a "pro player" you shouldn't long for something like that.
But when you talk about "garbage, meant for casuals and console idiots that cant handle a deep and involved system" that actually says enough.
The first level runestone for every color and type was way more significant than the bonus the levels actually gave you. If you wanted to apply a rune to a skill you got, you pretty much could right as soon as you entered act 2 of normal.
In fact there was an entire crafting mechanic that would use up spare runestones you found, and there used to be more bag space before as well to accomodate this. Its gone now presumably because it was too complex or just not ready and they had to give it the axe to rush the game.
Now if there is a rune ability that you really want to get, but it doesnt get unlocked until way down the road, like hell mode, you are fucked. Before you could just socket a rune whenever you picked up a rune of that color (and you would very easily because stones were an intrinsic drop in the game, no real "luck" involved). And a rune could have just been consumed by the UI when applied to a skill honestly, no need for an inventory element to always be around.
Before there was little luck in whether or not you were able to unlock a rune ability you wanted, now there is a huge amount of luck involved around Blizzard designing the class you wanted to play in a way that you liked.
And what of the end game?
Before we had: skill ranks, gear, gems, enchants. Now we have: gear, gems.
Way too simplified. D2 was a much richer game than D3 at this point. Gems alone cant support the end game. They dont do nearly enough interesting things. Now the current changes are fine, I just wish they would start adding things back into the game, they have deleted a LOT of diablo 3 these last 4 beta patches.
Popular amendments to the current rune system/patch 13 are as follows:
Unlock all runes for a skill the moment the skill is unlocked. This prevents people who wanted a certain rune early from getting fucked.
Skill advancement system of any kind. Something, anything.
Ability to remap basic attack. Or just fix the god awful UI in general. The guy who designed it should be fired. I can't believe someone looked at it and went "Yup, thats a good system, Im proud of it."
If going to remove runes as drops, we need to add something to the game to stop it from being a game where you pickup or trade for loot, and then gem it. Its not that two end game tasks are bad. It is just that we have that game already. Its been done. We've all moved on.
On February 21 2012 10:14 Lysenko wrote: I'm pretty sure they rushed out this skill and chat UI and that many of these issues will be addressed in later beta builds, let alone release.
Yeah, it was rushed and is most likely incomplete. The reason I feel this way is purely due to the time-frame they have been working on. The revamp to the rune system was a major change. It was not like some minor adjustments that I at least was imagining. No, they revamped the core of the system which the system alone is a major portion of what makes Diablo III the game it is.
So what most likely happened is this; the developers decided on the change after not being satisfied with how the skill and progression of the game works. Mostly has to do with the 30-60 level'ing and how it feels. So, they decided to change it up. Which also caused the delay of the game further (since the earlier delay was hinted to being primarily due to Rune system (or it being one of the main reasons, and RMAH not being one of them).
The development team needed to get the core mechanics for the game out. Which is what we see now; this is the more simplistic version of the system UI. It was given to us most likely due to Blizzard wanting to release the game without further delays. So the UI of the rune, the UI and problem with the chat system is due to it simply not being a finished project. It is the skeleton of what ought to be worked on later (although I believe the chat, since quite broken, will be patched prior to release).
Yes, I do not have any Blue posts to back my theory up. And I do not claim that it is the absolute truth (so I can very well be mistaken). But the way the UI looks, Blizzards desire to ship this (removing Mystic instead of delaying game to for it to be reworked), shows at least the mentality of Blizzard.
Go into the game. Hit options, gameplay, and select "Elective mode." Lets you put abilities on whatever button you want.
As far as no auto attack, I kind of agree. I think they are going to get rid of auto attacks though, now you just have an ability replace your auto attack and the old passives will be removed.
On February 21 2012 13:38 Medzo wrote: Go into the game. Hit options, gameplay, and select "Elective mode." Lets you put abilities on whatever button you want.
As far as no auto attack, I kind of agree. I think they are going to get rid of auto attacks though, now you just have an ability replace your auto attack and the old passives will be removed.
This hasn't worked for me. My hotbar is permanently padlocked..
On February 21 2012 14:03 Warpath wrote: This hasn't worked for me. My hotbar is permanently padlocked..
In the current patch, you can't directly manipulate the hotbar. However, using Elective Mode means you can put any ability into any slot in the skills window -- use the left and right arrows to pick different categories.
Yeah, it's clunky, and yeah, I'll bet the developers are keenly aware of this by now.
On February 21 2012 10:25 Nilrem wrote: The development team needed to get the core mechanics for the game out. Which is what we see now; this is the more simplistic version of the system UI. It was given to us most likely due to Blizzard wanting to release the game without further delays. So the UI of the rune, the UI and problem with the chat system is due to it simply not being a finished project. It is the skeleton of what ought to be worked on later (although I believe the chat, since quite broken, will be patched prior to release).
The new UI does not suggest to me that they were cutting corners. If corners needed to be cut, they could well have made the patch 12 UI work just as well with the new rune system. The new UI was a new concept for what it should be, and they probably put it together and threw it out there in a very short timeframe, figuring that where they went with it (or if they went anywhere with it) might be dictated by feedback.
On February 21 2012 06:43 [F_]aths wrote: Since I play patch 13, my faith in Blizzard is restored. They finally managed to get a deep skill system which will keep us do the math for years to come. The UI isn't perfect yet but better than as it was at the initial Beta release.
you mean the built in runestones? i prefer having them drop from creeps because eventually the "hdin" style runes that everyone wants will have a high demand. it feels much more like diablo when you can barter your rare items instead of just being handed them as you level up.
Since attack skills scale with weapon damage (true even for caster classes), you still need to hunt items for best damage output.
If I would see both systems, old and new, on the paper, I would prefer runes as items, too. But having played the new system, I consider this one way better.
Every change that was made in last 6 months is making this game easier for casual players (95% of people that will buy it) also these changes are forced because Blizzard is working on port D3 on consoles. So to sum up: They are making easier and not challanging game to make more money... Sad but true, this is future of gaming industry...
On February 21 2012 10:25 Nilrem wrote: The development team needed to get the core mechanics for the game out. Which is what we see now; this is the more simplistic version of the system UI. It was given to us most likely due to Blizzard wanting to release the game without further delays. So the UI of the rune, the UI and problem with the chat system is due to it simply not being a finished project. It is the skeleton of what ought to be worked on later (although I believe the chat, since quite broken, will be patched prior to release).
The new UI does not suggest to me that they were cutting corners. If corners needed to be cut, they could well have made the patch 12 UI work just as well with the new rune system. The new UI was a new concept for what it should be, and they probably put it together and threw it out there in a very short timeframe, figuring that where they went with it (or if they went anywhere with it) might be dictated by feedback.
You've suggested the UI has been put together in a short timeframe. You have any dates to support this?
On February 21 2012 17:41 Bulkers wrote: Every change that was made in last 6 months is making this game easier for casual players (95% of people that will buy it) also these changes are forced because Blizzard is working on port D3 on consoles. So to sum up: They are making easier and not challanging game to make more money... Sad but true, this is future of gaming industry...
games easier to master = more buyers = more money
Wrong conclusion. The game is easier to access. The endgame (inferno mode) remains hard. Blizzard's motto is "easy to learn, hard to master". The latter part will be fully delivered with D3.
I wonder how many guys who complain that D3 would get too simple then actually play a hardcore character (with just one life) in the inferno difficulty.
The console version does not influence the PC version in any negative way. The PC version for example still will use skills which requires you to aim the target with a mouse. The console version for D3 will not be a 1:1 port anyway.
On February 21 2012 08:04 Medrea wrote: Before we had: skill ranks, gear, gems, enchants. Now we have: gear, gems.
Enchants and gems obviously overlapped. Skill ranks (rune ranks) sounded great but they didn't work out in Blizzard's internal tests. The system is now streamlined. It's easier to understand, yet it delivers depth.
Having many options is not always good. It's better to have fewer, but meaningful options. Look at D2: You can put 1-20 points into a skill. But in reality you put either one point (to unlock another skill) or you max it out. D3 offers a much better (more meaningful) skill progression.
On February 21 2012 08:04 Medrea wrote: Before we had: skill ranks, gear, gems, enchants. Now we have: gear, gems.
Enchants and gems obviously overlapped. Skill ranks (rune ranks) sounded great but they didn't work out in Blizzard's internal tests. The system is now streamlined. It's easier to understand, yet it delivers depth.
Having many options is not always good. It's better to have fewer, but meaningful options. Look at D2: You can put 1-20 points into a skill. But in reality you put either one point (to unlock another skill) or you max it out. D3 offers a much better (more meaningful) skill progression.
They didnt overlap.
There were a lot of different enchantments that you cant get with gems.
And enchants also werent flat, and had there own RNG. Gems are flat and static. The two were completely different.
On February 21 2012 08:04 Medrea wrote: Before we had: skill ranks, gear, gems, enchants. Now we have: gear, gems.
Enchants and gems obviously overlapped. Skill ranks (rune ranks) sounded great but they didn't work out in Blizzard's internal tests. The system is now streamlined. It's easier to understand, yet it delivers depth.
Having many options is not always good. It's better to have fewer, but meaningful options. Look at D2: You can put 1-20 points into a skill. But in reality you put either one point (to unlock another skill) or you max it out. D3 offers a much better (more meaningful) skill progression.
They didnt overlap.
There were a lot of different enchantments that you cant get with gems.
And enchants also werent flat, and had there own RNG. Gems are flat and static. The two were completely different.
They overlap as both make an existing item better in some way. It would be better to introduce new gem types instead of having both gems and enchantments. But probably Blizzard don't want to give you too much freedom to improve an item because this would render the luck factor at crafting less relevant.
On February 21 2012 17:41 Bulkers wrote: Every change that was made in last 6 months is making this game easier for casual players (95% of people that will buy it) also these changes are forced because Blizzard is working on port D3 on consoles. So to sum up: They are making easier and not challanging game to make more money... Sad but true, this is future of gaming industry...
games easier to master = more buyers = more money
Wrong conclusion. The game is easier to access. The endgame (inferno mode) remains hard. Blizzard's motto is "easy to learn, hard to master". The latter part will be fully delivered with D3.
I wonder how many guys who complain that D3 would get too simple then actually play a hardcore character (with just one life) in the inferno difficulty.
The console version does not influence the PC version in any negative way. The PC version for example still will use skills which requires you to aim the target with a mouse. The console version for D3 will not be a 1:1 port anyway.
It's amazing that you post the same stuff in every thread.
The latter part will be fully delivered with D3.
YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS. Stop acting like everything will be perfectly fine in the end and all the people have to do is to sit tight and trust in Blizzard. This has not worked in Cataclysm, it hasn't worked in SC2. These things may just be bugs or temporary fixes, but they may just as well be yet another intended screwup on Blizzard's part.
On February 21 2012 17:41 Bulkers wrote: Every change that was made in last 6 months is making this game easier for casual players (95% of people that will buy it) also these changes are forced because Blizzard is working on port D3 on consoles. So to sum up: They are making easier and not challanging game to make more money... Sad but true, this is future of gaming industry...
games easier to master = more buyers = more money
Wrong conclusion. The game is easier to access. The endgame (inferno mode) remains hard. Blizzard's motto is "easy to learn, hard to master". The latter part will be fully delivered with D3.
I wonder how many guys who complain that D3 would get too simple then actually play a hardcore character (with just one life) in the inferno difficulty.
The console version does not influence the PC version in any negative way. The PC version for example still will use skills which requires you to aim the target with a mouse. The console version for D3 will not be a 1:1 port anyway.
It's amazing that you post the same stuff in every thread.
YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS. Stop acting like everything will be perfectly fine in the end and all the people have to do is to sit tight and trust in Blizzard. This has not worked in Cataclysm, it hasn't worked in SC2. These things may just be bugs or temporary fixes, but they may just as well be yet another intended screwup on Blizzard's part.
Not everyone will be fine, but most complains in this thread are from ignorance about the actual game. One has to consider all game mechanics working together, one cannot take a single aspect of the game and claim this is proof that D3 for PC and Mac would be like a console game or too easy.
Instead of doing theorycrafting devised from Jay Wilson's blog and some screenshots, please follow me after the release in the hardcore mode and play a char to inferno. Then we can talk again if D3 is too simple.
the skill ui is awful when you're using elective mode but in the regular mode the only thing missing from what i can tell is easily switching out what skills are bound to what key
On February 21 2012 17:41 Bulkers wrote: Every change that was made in last 6 months is making this game easier for casual players (95% of people that will buy it) also these changes are forced because Blizzard is working on port D3 on consoles. So to sum up: They are making easier and not challanging game to make more money... Sad but true, this is future of gaming industry...
games easier to master = more buyers = more money
Wrong conclusion. The game is easier to access. The endgame (inferno mode) remains hard. Blizzard's motto is "easy to learn, hard to master". The latter part will be fully delivered with D3.
I wonder how many guys who complain that D3 would get too simple then actually play a hardcore character (with just one life) in the inferno difficulty.
The console version does not influence the PC version in any negative way. The PC version for example still will use skills which requires you to aim the target with a mouse. The console version for D3 will not be a 1:1 port anyway.
It's amazing that you post the same stuff in every thread.
YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS. Stop acting like everything will be perfectly fine in the end and all the people have to do is to sit tight and trust in Blizzard. This has not worked in Cataclysm, it hasn't worked in SC2. These things may just be bugs or temporary fixes, but they may just as well be yet another intended screwup on Blizzard's part.
i dunno, man. say what you will about blizzard but one thing they've been consistently able to nail is challenging content. wow raids have some brutal encounters, and sc2 on brutal can get pretty rough in spots.
On February 21 2012 20:06 thatsundowner wrote: the skill ui is awful when you're using elective mode but in the regular mode the only thing missing from what i can tell is easily switching out what skills are bound to what key
On February 21 2012 17:41 Bulkers wrote: Every change that was made in last 6 months is making this game easier for casual players (95% of people that will buy it) also these changes are forced because Blizzard is working on port D3 on consoles. So to sum up: They are making easier and not challanging game to make more money... Sad but true, this is future of gaming industry...
games easier to master = more buyers = more money
Wrong conclusion. The game is easier to access. The endgame (inferno mode) remains hard. Blizzard's motto is "easy to learn, hard to master". The latter part will be fully delivered with D3.
I wonder how many guys who complain that D3 would get too simple then actually play a hardcore character (with just one life) in the inferno difficulty.
The console version does not influence the PC version in any negative way. The PC version for example still will use skills which requires you to aim the target with a mouse. The console version for D3 will not be a 1:1 port anyway.
It's amazing that you post the same stuff in every thread.
The latter part will be fully delivered with D3.
YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS. Stop acting like everything will be perfectly fine in the end and all the people have to do is to sit tight and trust in Blizzard. This has not worked in Cataclysm, it hasn't worked in SC2. These things may just be bugs or temporary fixes, but they may just as well be yet another intended screwup on Blizzard's part.
i dunno, man. say what you will about blizzard but one thing they've been consistently able to nail is challenging content. wow raids have some brutal encounters, and sc2 on brutal can get pretty rough in spots.
Indeed.
The UI is not final. One can see it since the first Beta. From there the UI underwent several improvements, but it's still confusing sometimes. I hope that the final game will have the elective mode only, but with a cleaner user interface. The sad thing is that a cleaner UI would be used as additional proof that Blizzard dumbs down the PC/Mac version for the console version.
On February 21 2012 19:22 nuclear_nub wrote: The UI in a 8months+ beta is unrefined? Grab your pitchforks!
Fixed it for ya.
The UI didn't get any better with this patch, instead it became rigid. While attempting to make it easier for the casual players, Blizzard only made a UI harder to customize.
The rune system was greatly simplified for the benefit of casual players. While attempting to make the rune system more accessible to the players, it also reduced the amount of spell modifiers and therefore, reduced the spell customization potential.
Always the same, someone complains about a change made in a game and people always jump on them because 'it's not done' or 'wait till release' .. why?
This beta has been live for months, they have mountains of feedback.. if all of that really honestly lead to these changes being implemented then well, I guess that is how gamers want it these days for better or worse.
It is plain to see though even after playing the new build for 30 minutes how unwieldy this new UI is.. if you think it's swift and non intrustive then I just don't agree with you Doesn't make either of us right or wrong.
You all realize that eventually you will be able to use elective mode to do whatever the heck you want, right? Also, there is 0 need to bind basic attack.
On February 21 2012 22:09 Gescom wrote: You all realize that eventually you will be able to use elective mode to do whatever the heck you want, right? Also, there is 0 need to bind basic attack.
Just because there isn't any need on your opinion, doesn't mean there isn't any need for someone else.
As an example, I rebound my Tab key on WOW to a macro that selects a target and autoattacks. Before I knew how to use macros, I was doing Tab-T to attack, NOT clicking on the mobs.
I haven't played the beta, but for someone who is used to A-moving, having a keyboard bind for "attack next" is extremely helpful.
On February 21 2012 19:22 nuclear_nub wrote: The UI in a 8months+ beta is unrefined? Grab your pitchforks!
Fixed it for ya.
The UI didn't get any better with this patch, instead it became rigid. While attempting to make it easier for the casual players, Blizzard only made a UI harder to customize.
The rune system was greatly simplified for the benefit of casual players. While attempting to make the rune system more accessible to the players, it also reduced the amount of spell modifiers and therefore, reduced the spell customization potential.
Do you see a trend here?
It's more than a UI which is good for casual players. With the new skill classification and the re-ordering when skills unlock, the chars become much more interesting to play. With the previous char wipes I just played WD and wizard to level 13. The new system however makes the level progression and the actual playing much better. I try out way more builds than just having the same "best" attack spell spammed all the time. Now I feel that the skill system finally is right. It tool them long enough and we had some big changes in the beta already (making any offensive skill scale by weapon damage, introduction and removal of the Nephalim altar) but this one just feel that they finally are on the right track.
The rune system was purged from unnecessary complexity. Consider the option in D2 to put 1, 2, 3, 4, ... 20 points into a skill. While it sounds great, actually this was useless as you maxed out any skill you were going to use anyway. The new system in D3 condenses the skill mechanic to the core and slags options which don't actually add depth.
On February 21 2012 22:09 Gescom wrote: You all realize that eventually you will be able to use elective mode to do whatever the heck you want, right? Also, there is 0 need to bind basic attack.
Just because there isn't any need on your opinion, doesn't mean there isn't any need for someone else.
As an example, I rebound my Tab key on WOW to a macro that selects a target and autoattacks. Before I knew how to use macros, I was doing Tab-T to attack, NOT clicking on the mobs.
I haven't played the beta, but for someone who is used to A-moving, having a keyboard bind for "attack next" is extremely helpful.
your story and resulting opinion don't apply to Diablo 3. There is no reason to base attack in D3 over an ability.
On February 21 2012 22:09 Gescom wrote: You all realize that eventually you will be able to use elective mode to do whatever the heck you want, right? Also, there is 0 need to bind basic attack.
Just because there isn't any need on your opinion, doesn't mean there isn't any need for someone else.
As an example, I rebound my Tab key on WOW to a macro that selects a target and autoattacks. Before I knew how to use macros, I was doing Tab-T to attack, NOT clicking on the mobs.
I haven't played the beta, but for someone who is used to A-moving, having a keyboard bind for "attack next" is extremely helpful.
your story and resulting opinion don't apply to Diablo 3. There is no reason to base attack in D3 over an ability.
Witch doctor that is out of mana.
They are the only class that doesn't have resource free or resource generating abilities. I haven't played since they gave the WD's mana a "tuning pass" in this last patch, but I did run out of mana in longer fights in the beta. They also need to expend mana to break destructables etc. These things are a big deal in beta since it regenerates fairly fast, but we don't know how it will be later in the game. Basic attacks gave you something to do while you're mana regenerated ... it would suck to be forced to sit there and wait with NOTHING to do.
On February 21 2012 22:09 Gescom wrote: You all realize that eventually you will be able to use elective mode to do whatever the heck you want, right? Also, there is 0 need to bind basic attack.
Just because there isn't any need on your opinion, doesn't mean there isn't any need for someone else.
As an example, I rebound my Tab key on WOW to a macro that selects a target and autoattacks. Before I knew how to use macros, I was doing Tab-T to attack, NOT clicking on the mobs.
I haven't played the beta, but for someone who is used to A-moving, having a keyboard bind for "attack next" is extremely helpful.
your story and resulting opinion don't apply to Diablo 3. There is no reason to base attack in D3 over an ability.
Witch doctor that is out of mana.
They are the only class that doesn't have resource free or resource generating abilities. I haven't played since they gave the WD's mana a "tuning pass" in this last patch, but I did run out of mana in longer fights in the beta. They also need to expend mana to break destructables etc. These things are a big deal in beta since it regenerates fairly fast, but we don't know how it will be later in the game. Basic attacks gave you something to do while you're mana regenerated ... it would suck to be forced to sit there and wait with NOTHING to do.
At higher level you can life tap for mana. Smacking a barrel with a dagger when OoM is not really grounds for wasting a bind on autoattack.
It's really just Blizzard trying to help noobs. You'd be amazed at the number of people who still had autoattack bound to 1 in WoW after hitting max level... /doh
On February 21 2012 22:09 Gescom wrote: You all realize that eventually you will be able to use elective mode to do whatever the heck you want, right? Also, there is 0 need to bind basic attack.
Just because there isn't any need on your opinion, doesn't mean there isn't any need for someone else.
As an example, I rebound my Tab key on WOW to a macro that selects a target and autoattacks. Before I knew how to use macros, I was doing Tab-T to attack, NOT clicking on the mobs.
I haven't played the beta, but for someone who is used to A-moving, having a keyboard bind for "attack next" is extremely helpful.
your story and resulting opinion don't apply to Diablo 3. There is no reason to base attack in D3 over an ability.
Witch doctor that is out of mana.
They are the only class that doesn't have resource free or resource generating abilities. I haven't played since they gave the WD's mana a "tuning pass" in this last patch, but I did run out of mana in longer fights in the beta. They also need to expend mana to break destructables etc. These things are a big deal in beta since it regenerates fairly fast, but we don't know how it will be later in the game. Basic attacks gave you something to do while you're mana regenerated ... it would suck to be forced to sit there and wait with NOTHING to do.
At higher level you can life tap for mana. Smacking a barrel with a dagger when OoM is not really grounds for wasting a bind on autoattack.
It's really just Blizzard trying to help noobs. You'd be amazed at the number of people who still had autoattack bound to 1 in WoW after hitting max level... /doh
Wasting a bind wouldn't be an issue if there was just another bind. Limited buttons for console controllers be damned.
There is another solution as well, probably the better solution if they are worried about keeping everything clean and identical between console and PC versions. I don't imagine the out of mana issues for a WD being a problem at higher levels. It does happen at lower levels (for instance the jar of souls or whatever it was event ...). Until you lock all your skill slots they are just going to be unused. Why not allow the option to still bind basic attack? By the time you have all 6 skills the need to have a basic attack is probably gone.
I'm just saying a basic attack is still useful to a low level WD. I don't really see a good reason NOT to allow it to be used while you can't even fill all your binds with skills anyway.
If the design was perfect, there'd be no need. All the melee classes will auto-attack if you try to use an attack skill that can't be used at that time. Wizard has some 0 mana abilities. Low lvl WD is the only example of a time when you might possibly need to use an auto-attack.
Is it worth changing the whole system so a lvl 7 WD can break a barrel while waiting 2s for mana to recharge? Most people would say no. (and it really is just barrels, because you'll have a follower + minions to fight enemies if you ran yourself OoM)
On February 22 2012 01:39 [F_]aths wrote: I am not 100% sure but I think that the char uses the default attack automatically when he is out of resource. I will test is later today.
Yes, all Barb/Monk/DH will do this. Wizard has some 0 AP spells. WD does not have a proper solution to this, I think.
Is the need for a low level WD to have an auto attack really that big of a deal? Not really no, but there is definitely a case for there to be one. You say it isn't a big enough deal to fix, but how big of a deal is it to implement the fix? There is unused binds until you have all your skill slots, and the ability to bind a basic attack was already there; they just need to bring it back. It might not be a big deal, but its also a really small fix. I don't see why not.
It's actually not a small "fix". Allowing an autoattack to be bound really overrules the whole intention of their new system and opens up a lot of issues. It's not worth it.
What issues does it open up? That it doesn't fit with their new skill categories? If they're that worried about it, just let it be an option in elective mode.
On February 21 2012 22:09 Gescom wrote: You all realize that eventually you will be able to use elective mode to do whatever the heck you want, right? Also, there is 0 need to bind basic attack.
Just because there isn't any need on your opinion, doesn't mean there isn't any need for someone else.
As an example, I rebound my Tab key on WOW to a macro that selects a target and autoattacks. Before I knew how to use macros, I was doing Tab-T to attack, NOT clicking on the mobs.
I haven't played the beta, but for someone who is used to A-moving, having a keyboard bind for "attack next" is extremely helpful.
Please, if you haven't even played it, why would you respond against that? There really is 0 need. You can do your first class primary attack which is auto-given from the start for much more damage and even (class dependent) generate your resource pool. Afaik, WD is the only class which doesn't, and you need to spam hard to deplete your pool from poison dart.
Edit: It's very hard to imagine Blizzard getting the fundamentals right at release or anytime after now. As if they seem to be missing the bigger picture of things. Many of the rage threads in the d3 forums have merit to them, if you can pick off the calmer and sensible sentences. I find it very ironic that they expect the community and players to be in a comatose state (because that's at least what you need to beat Normal I expect) yet fail to understand how to incorporate proper social elements to encourage a community to thrive.
As patch after patch is released of this now exhausting beta phase, it seems very clear that many people consider blizzard doing more harm than good the longer they work on the game. And those who just don't want to wait any longer, respond with "Who cares, deal with it, it's overdue for release now. Let me play." Or something along those lines.
Unfortunately, I feel like less is more at this point. Laughing skeletons, an entire screen used for skills (which you still have to scroll sideways through), runes readily available to all, large popups every few minutes ("You're Cinder Arrow rune is ready to use" "You have an equipment slot open" "Massacre! You've destroyed 4 objects!"). Not to mention a wealth system that after 10 mins of your first time playing, you will never be that hardpressed for gold, ever again for any future character. I feel by level 8, I have the wealth a level 20 char should have regarding artisan unlocks and full set of magical gear at my crafting disposal. Why can I craft roughly lvl 25 gear? If I'm lvl 8, shouldn't I be hardpressed to afford to craft something my own level and work to find the good things out in the battlefield? Let alone being able to craft multiples of a lvl 20+ full set of (good) magical gear... Plus the fact I can craft a rare as early as lvl 3 makes it a very simple process of being able to outpace the gameplay with how powerful I quickly become.
You want to know my favourite part so far? Starting from scratch with a character wipe. How great does it feel to be new and fresh, dirt poor and so vulnerably naked? 40-60 mins later and you're almost if not fully geared and your arty is up to a point where you can't reach your top items to craft because they need a level of 20-25 or so to unlock. The level limitation isn't much of a barrier, but that's literally the only thing stopping me from having my 2nd character roll into New Tristram, hitting up haedrig and crafting a full set of great gear right off the bat from the progression of my 1st char. So instead, I'll go lvl for 10 mins, comeback a lvl 4-5 or so and boom, I'm OP vs any area I choose to venture to. Imo this really is a step backwards as an rpg from blizzard.
Yes, thank you, I am aware of how much of the full game this beta covers. I am aware that it's used for testing servers, the AH, stress tests, etc. But it is real and it does give a solid glimpse of the early and basic mechanics of the game. I'm sorry to say but if your opinion lies with this being a currently near flawless then well, I really don't know how you stumbled upon TL (maybe you actually Stumbled (TM) upon it, who knows). It has many fundamental mistakes, both in gameplay and out of gameplay (out being bnet 2.0, a whole separate fail topic in itself). Yes, I'm judging from the current content, because it's almost impossible to imagine how this game will properly scale in the later stages.
On February 21 2012 17:41 Bulkers wrote: Every change that was made in last 6 months is making this game easier for casual players (95% of people that will buy it) also these changes are forced because Blizzard is working on port D3 on consoles. So to sum up: They are making easier and not challanging game to make more money... Sad but true, this is future of gaming industry...
games easier to master = more buyers = more money
Wrong conclusion. The game is easier to access. The endgame (inferno mode) remains hard. Blizzard's motto is "easy to learn, hard to master". The latter part will be fully delivered with D3.
I wonder how many guys who complain that D3 would get too simple then actually play a hardcore character (with just one life) in the inferno difficulty.
The console version does not influence the PC version in any negative way. The PC version for example still will use skills which requires you to aim the target with a mouse. The console version for D3 will not be a 1:1 port anyway.
It's amazing that you post the same stuff in every thread.
The latter part will be fully delivered with D3.
YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS. Stop acting like everything will be perfectly fine in the end and all the people have to do is to sit tight and trust in Blizzard. This has not worked in Cataclysm, it hasn't worked in SC2. These things may just be bugs or temporary fixes, but they may just as well be yet another intended screwup on Blizzard's part.
just in case you haven't seen this yet
I guess this would mean that blizzard breaks their first promise if they fail wouldn't it? Really, have you been keeping up with blizzard progression?
Horrde, keep in mind you've played the first ten levels probably a dozen times now. It's not like someone picking up the game for the very first time would be playing in that manner or thinking that way.
On February 22 2012 03:22 MrTortoise wrote: tbh in the grand scheme of getting a game ready your complaints seem pretty damn trite
I think your comment is very fair to say. These would be my own words if I never had access to beta I'd imagine. But a first glance and experimentation with the gameplay and I stand by my opinion. Trite, maybe, but I think there is a bit of originality in there after all. All the words are my own, and I'd just like to now see the game reach at least half the potential it could be.
This "grand scheme of things" has been going for who actually knows? 3-5 years? With raw solid data feedback of a 6+ month beta now? And it's this unbalanced at such a low level of the game? It's looking to get exponetially worse as you level higher... ack.
On February 22 2012 01:39 [F_]aths wrote: I am not 100% sure but I think that the char uses the default attack automatically when he is out of resource. I will test is later today.
Yes, all Barb/Monk/DH will do this. Wizard has some 0 AP spells. WD does not have a proper solution to this, I think.
I tested the WD. He does perform a standard attack when he has no mana.
On February 22 2012 01:39 [F_]aths wrote: I am not 100% sure but I think that the char uses the default attack automatically when he is out of resource. I will test is later today.
Yes, all Barb/Monk/DH will do this. Wizard has some 0 AP spells. WD does not have a proper solution to this, I think.
I tested the WD. He does perform a standard attack when he has no mana.
Well that sounds like a good enough of a solution to me. There is still a potential issue of not realizing you're out of mana and closing to melee range unintentionally. But at that point you should just realize you're out of mana and not expect the game to play itself for you and stop yourself lol.
On February 22 2012 01:39 [F_]aths wrote: I am not 100% sure but I think that the char uses the default attack automatically when he is out of resource. I will test is later today.
Yes, all Barb/Monk/DH will do this. Wizard has some 0 AP spells. WD does not have a proper solution to this, I think.
I tested the WD. He does perform a standard attack when he has no mana.
Well that sounds like a good enough of a solution to me. There is still a potential issue of not realizing you're out of mana and closing to melee range unintentionally. But at that point you should just realize you're out of mana and not expect the game to play itself for you and stop yourself lol.
There's a reason holding down Shift is important when attacking with left click.
On February 22 2012 01:39 [F_]aths wrote: I am not 100% sure but I think that the char uses the default attack automatically when he is out of resource. I will test is later today.
Yes, all Barb/Monk/DH will do this. Wizard has some 0 AP spells. WD does not have a proper solution to this, I think.
I tested the WD. He does perform a standard attack when he has no mana.
Well that sounds like a good enough of a solution to me. There is still a potential issue of not realizing you're out of mana and closing to melee range unintentionally. But at that point you should just realize you're out of mana and not expect the game to play itself for you and stop yourself lol.
There's a reason holding down Shift is important when attacking with left click.
Well it isn't an issue for me personally, but newer players might not know to use shift. Like I said, it seems like with a WD doing an auto attack when OOM it is good enough.
Since patch 13 I play D3 beta A LOT. The game got so much better with the new skill system. I don't use just one skill, I have to use other skills because the "good" ones are unlocked later. But this gets me to think about how I fight. I fight with much more strategy (casting AOE damage / slow to soften up a group of mobs) than before.
In older patches you either got a new skill which you used, but most time you didn't use that skill. With the new rune system, each level gained is so much more meaningful. Virtually any new level you get reasonable options to change your build.
On February 22 2012 01:39 [F_]aths wrote: I am not 100% sure but I think that the char uses the default attack automatically when he is out of resource. I will test is later today.
Yes, all Barb/Monk/DH will do this. Wizard has some 0 AP spells. WD does not have a proper solution to this, I think.
I tested the WD. He does perform a standard attack when he has no mana.
Well that sounds like a good enough of a solution to me. There is still a potential issue of not realizing you're out of mana and closing to melee range unintentionally. But at that point you should just realize you're out of mana and not expect the game to play itself for you and stop yourself lol.
There's a reason holding down Shift is important when attacking with left click.
Well it isn't an issue for me personally, but newer players might not know to use shift. Like I said, it seems like with a WD doing an auto attack when OOM it is good enough.
Any of the standard (simple) skill description tells you to hold shift to cast without moving.
Dont be confused with the fact that just because runes skills are part of the beta test that the system is now better than it was before where they were in act 2.
On February 22 2012 04:34 [F_]aths wrote: Since patch 13 I play D3 beta A LOT. The game got so much better with the new skill system. I don't use just one skill, I have to use other skills because the "good" ones are unlocked later. But this gets me to think about how I fight. I fight with much more strategy (casting AOE damage / slow to soften up a group of mobs) than before.
In older patches you either got a new skill which you used, but most time you didn't use that skill. With the new rune system, each level gained is so much more meaningful. Virtually any new level you get reasonable options to change your build.
On February 22 2012 01:39 [F_]aths wrote: I am not 100% sure but I think that the char uses the default attack automatically when he is out of resource. I will test is later today.
Yes, all Barb/Monk/DH will do this. Wizard has some 0 AP spells. WD does not have a proper solution to this, I think.
I tested the WD. He does perform a standard attack when he has no mana.
Well that sounds like a good enough of a solution to me. There is still a potential issue of not realizing you're out of mana and closing to melee range unintentionally. But at that point you should just realize you're out of mana and not expect the game to play itself for you and stop yourself lol.
There's a reason holding down Shift is important when attacking with left click.
Well it isn't an issue for me personally, but newer players might not know to use shift. Like I said, it seems like with a WD doing an auto attack when OOM it is good enough.
Any of the standard (simple) skill description tells you to hold shift to cast without moving.
Is that a newer change? I don't remember seeing that when I was playing, but it is definitely possible that I just missed it.
On February 22 2012 04:37 Medrea wrote: Dont be confused with the fact that just because runes skills are part of the beta test that the system is now better than it was before where they were in act 2.
Random skill progression sounds to be fun. The rune system as it is now is in fact fun.
I am very sad about the magnitude of misconception in this entire thread. Most worries voiced are completely imaginary. Some UI issues (for example it's quite some work to just swap the hotkey / mousebutton assignment of skills) are still there but those issues are not even mentioned in this thread because hardly anyone here actually plays the game.
On February 22 2012 04:37 Medrea wrote: Dont be confused with the fact that just because runes skills are part of the beta test that the system is now better than it was before where they were in act 2.
Random skill progression sounds to be fun. The rune system as it is now is in fact fun.
I am very sad about the magnitude of misconception in this entire thread. Most worries voiced are completely imaginary. Some UI issues (for example it's quite some work to just swap the hotkey / mousebutton assignment of skills) are still there but those issues are not even mentioned in this thread because hardly anyone here actually plays the game.
Sorry I dont like being handed shit for free at random times. Gems and Loot cant support the end game alone.
Even if you like the changes. Dont you think they should add to the game instead of just giving everything the axe?
TBH, I love the mechanics of the changes in this patch.
I don't at all like the way the UI is now, but I have hope that it will be iterated on and potentially solved. The rune unlocks are fun IMO, and they really do encourage skill variety.
It seems that when you unlock a rune at low levels it is nearly always better to switch back to a previous skill that now has a rune, rather than to remain with a skill that has no rune. Although I haven't played all classes yet, it feels this way on Barb, Monk and Wizard. There are some instances where maybe you don't want the effects the rune provides and in that case you just don't go back to that spell.
Well you only have access to a small handful of runes, as they unlock your choices will become more personal and less obligatory.
Before they were always personal preference since runes dropped a lot and you unlocked all skills pretty quickly. Now there is an obligatory period where you have to play a build you dont want to play until Blizzard unlocks the runes for you.
I really wanted to play an Exploding fist monk where the explosion had that chain reaction rune. That sounded cool, now I have to wait until level 54 to do that instead of act 2 >.>
it's kind of unfortunate that for certain builds you may have to wait until later in the game before it becomes viable but one thing that didn't sound fun speaking as somebody who's probably going to be switching my skills around a lot just to play around with them, keeping physical rune items around to do that seems more annoying than anything else
Well the beta sentiment was that once a rune is used upon a skill it gets consumed by the UI so you would never have to accomodate it in your inventory, even if you switch it out. Only once its replaced entirely would the UI grant the actual item back to you. So you can switch at will and never worry about an inventory stuff with runes.
No need to hold onto all those runes after all.
That was the most common suggestion for a way to tackle that problem correctly. So blizzard took it one step further and deleted runes altogether.
I think the not being able to bind basic attacks thing is clearly just a mistake in design, seeing as there are passives (wizard wand +damage passive, for example) that are made around using the basic attack. I can't imagine that this is the way the game will ship, though, given all the shitty feedback this system has been getting. It just surprises me that apparently they've been testing this system internally for a while and still thought it was a good idea to release as a beta patch.
On February 21 2012 03:17 dacthehork wrote: - Can't swap skill hotkeys, aka if you want to switch your left cilck skill with right click skill you can't
Wrong. Go into gameplay options and check 'elective skills'. You can now bind skills any way you like (although in a cumbersome way which will probably be improved in a future patch).
I'm pretty sure you're entire post's meat goes wayside once you know this. The rest are just minor UI grievances you seem to be having.
On February 21 2012 03:17 dacthehork wrote: - Can't swap skill hotkeys, aka if you want to switch your left cilck skill with right click skill you can't
Wrong. Go into gameplay options and check 'elective skills'. You can now bind skills any way you like (although in a cumbersome way which will probably be improved in a future patch).
I'm pretty sure you're entire post's meat goes wayside once you know this. The rest are just minor UI grievances you seem to be having.
I'm pretty sure he means this situation...
LMB - Hungering Arrow RMB - Bola Shot
Oh crap I want LMB to be bola shot! Let me fix that.
Oh wait you can't directly. You have to...
1. Bind LMB to a random skill not being used. 2. Bind Hungering Arrow to RMB. 2a. Wait for cooldown on LMB to finish. 3. Bind Bola shot to LMB. 3a. Wait for bola shot on LMB to finish.
Barrin: Easy buddy, we're on the same side. We both want d3 to flourish. I see you post in SC2 forums all the time... don't think I haven't noticed. I read almost all forums constantly, and I've been here for years longer than what my post count and join date suggests, as I believe you to yours as well.
Onwards. Hell and Inferno I think will be a challenge as well. No doubt, simple tinkering by blizzard will make it so. I don't see where you think I refuted that and all this from my couple sentence reply to you. But with 60 levels and let me see, within 4 hours time from a dirt scratch start, should I have access to almost half my artisan for the overall game and be able to craft items to near level 30? Which don't forget, doesn't reset. I have that forever now. Or maybe think a bit deeper and try to imagine a progression graph of how your collective characters fare against time. Does that in any way seem right to you?
I attacked D3's current wealth management system. And I do believe its all over the map right now. Not properly scaled, outpaces gameplay with every new char after the 1st. Your average poster here would be quick on the keyboard saying ohhh its beta, they don't care, 1st half of 1st act, etc. But they do care. They do read forums occasionally, they do have data and feedback, and you know what else? They have a 6+ month running beta now. And to top it all off, they switched up the rune system just last weekend. Wouldn't you say that's a staple in the entire system? Did you miss that about d3's development? So obviously they care. When is it okay to start balancing these things? Or are they considered balanced if they haven't been changed thus far? We are led to believe so, as the all mighty Bashiok (please, that's sarcasm) PR'ed that they have revamped the gold and item system not too long ago.
By the way, the clear and deeper meaning of that video is that they promise you will die repeatedly. Not just 1st death and prophecy fulfilled, going home. Co mon, to go through an entire d3 career of never dying is laughable to think about, and not a very great argument for anyone. I very much believe even casual gamers will join the bandwagon of a common way to play and become a 'monkey see, monkey do' demographic and come to eventually take on inferno very well. And furthermore, hype it up like it's some feat of immense skill to conquer. Please don't take the tagline of the video literally, that's a very simpleton way of ignoring the underlying meaning of that entire video that you yourself posted. And in that way I would consider it a failed promise.
You really haven't said much of your opinion about the game, just a limited amount of what you think will be hard. Why don't you share some of your insight to the current gameplay mechanics, not just what your "still quite sure of." Maybe I'll take a shot at picking apart some of your points and agreeing with other ones. I've put my thoughts out here, care to share yours?
But to your previous quote, the person you quoted is entirely justifiable. SC2's social system is a mess and likely won't change. And this is what D3 looks to be mimicking. Now it's me who would assume (I'm giving you credit here of being around TL before your join date...) someone from the BW/D2 whatever era, hell, lets just say pre bnet2.0 era would understand. They (blizz) really can't be left alone, and sitting tight and having faith they will pull through is exactly why many long time players all have their panties in a bunch. So I hope you don't blame anonymous posters when they're very skeptical with their concerns for a better system than this "leap backwards" (yes, runes included) which is the thread your posting in...
Of all the things you could complain about you choose the most miniscule thing. The whole point of the new systems that D3 is trying to implement is to remove the neutral attack portion of the game. Who liked Act 1 Normal in D2 when you were hitting zombies with your staff as a Sorc? No one.
And for all the "Hardcore Gamers" that are bitching about things such as rune changes. There are reasons for these changes, Blizzard feels like leveling 30-60 was an unnecessary grind fest because the items you get are useless but at the same time you don't get rewarded by anything when leveling because of the removal of skill points. Thus, they decided to move the cool effects of runes outside of late game grinding and into the quirks of leveling. Obviously, they felt that this would be more fun, more enjoyable. Blizzard isn't going to make the game less fun just to appeal to someones epeen.
On February 21 2012 03:17 dacthehork wrote: - Can't swap skill hotkeys, aka if you want to switch your left cilck skill with right click skill you can't
Wrong. Go into gameplay options and check 'elective skills'. You can now bind skills any way you like (although in a cumbersome way which will probably be improved in a future patch).
I'm pretty sure you're entire post's meat goes wayside once you know this. The rest are just minor UI grievances you seem to be having.
I'm pretty sure he means this situation...
LMB - Hungering Arrow RMB - Bola Shot
Oh crap I want LMB to be bola shot! Let me fix that.
Oh wait you can't directly. You have to...
1. Bind LMB to a random skill not being used. 2. Bind Hungering Arrow to RMB. 2a. Wait for cooldown on LMB to finish. 3. Bind Bola shot to LMB. 3a. Wait for bola shot on LMB to finish.
This is honestly the most frustrating thing to do. If the game ships in this state it will be a sad sad day in Blizzardland. Lets just hope that they're using the beta to test stuff out and this is a highly unrefined iteration of some ideas they're trying to implement...
On February 22 2012 04:37 Medrea wrote: Dont be confused with the fact that just because runes skills are part of the beta test that the system is now better than it was before where they were in act 2.
Random skill progression sounds to be fun. The rune system as it is now is in fact fun.
I am very sad about the magnitude of misconception in this entire thread. Most worries voiced are completely imaginary. Some UI issues (for example it's quite some work to just swap the hotkey / mousebutton assignment of skills) are still there but those issues are not even mentioned in this thread because hardly anyone here actually plays the game.
Sorry I dont like being handed shit for free at random times. Gems and Loot cant support the end game alone.
Do you know that or do you assume that?
Crafting should be an end game mechanic, too. Crafting involves random specs on the crafted items.
On February 22 2012 06:55 Medrea wrote: Even if you like the changes. Dont you think they should add to the game instead of just giving everything the axe?
I really do like the changes. Yesterday I just wanted to look at the tooltips, if they tell you about shift to hold your position (which they do) but then I played for two hours straight because of the new skill progression.
In SC2, Blizzard scrapped some stuff, too: The star map, the planet outside the window of the bridge where you could zoom in, multiple choice dialog options when you talk, many unit concepts and unit upgrades and so on. I didn't like it but I trust that it benefits the game. They are the professionals, I am an amateur.
Allow me for a short moment to go a bit offtopic. Currently I write a small piece of software. I get some input within the company I work with. The guy who gives me input thinks that his ideas are great. While a few of them are worthy to be considered, most of his ideas are just not sensible because he isn't able to consider the implications. I even cut some features already to focus on the core application. I guess that it is similar from the point of view of any software development team, too. When my tool finally will be released, everyone will wonder why I needed months to write this small application.
So I can imagine why it took Blizzard month for some rather small changes as well as why they scrap things they originally wanted to implement: Those ideas were good, but not the best ideas.
Apart from teribad ui, the gameplay itself is much more fun in patch 13. More skills, more enemies = more fun. The basic attack wont be missed, since I didnt even use it (any class shouldn't have) before this patch.
I'm not concerned about the interface too much since it feels like it's a last minute implementation and didn't think it through. The interface ingame of SC2 had made some changes during the beta as well. And even if it goes through to me it's just a minor annoyance. Not a dealbreaking thing. I really like patch 13 and it really feels like the best Diablo like (lol) I've played so far.
What I would like to see is that rune enchants if they ever come work like how Glyps work in WoW now. Once found you can always select it in a list.
Stop whining. After all the whining, everybody is still going to shell out $60 for the game along with giving it at least a 9.5/10 in rating and will become fulltime users of the real money auction house (RMAH) because its going to be a great fucking game with a storyline that sucks you in and gameplay/loot addiction that will make you replay the game 10+ times over and over.
kick and cry all you want, you're still gonna play over 100+ hours of this game.
embrace the dark side and stop trying to fight it =D
On February 22 2012 19:44 hyperknight wrote: Stop whining. After all the whining, everybody is still going to shell out $60 for the game along with giving it at least a 9.5/10 in rating and will become fulltime users of the real money auction house (RMAH) because its going to be a great fucking game with a storyline that sucks you in and gameplay/loot addiction that will make you replay the game 10+ times over and over.
kick and cry all you want, you're still gonna play over 100+ hours of this game.
embrace the dark side and stop trying to fight it =D
KEKE
Enough people with your attitude and we'll have Blizzard going down EA's path even quicker than it's already happening.
Quick note, so you learn something today: People passionate about their hobby who voice concerns aren't "whining". Stop being a jerk just because being on the internet makes it so easy for you to play the badass.
On February 22 2012 19:44 hyperknight wrote: Stop whining. After all the whining, everybody is still going to shell out $60 for the game along with giving it at least a 9.5/10 in rating and will become fulltime users of the real money auction house (RMAH) because its going to be a great fucking game with a storyline that sucks you in and gameplay/loot addiction that will make you replay the game 10+ times over and over.
kick and cry all you want, you're still gonna play over 100+ hours of this game.
embrace the dark side and stop trying to fight it =D
KEKE
Enough people with your attitude and we'll have Blizzard going down EA's path even quicker than it's already happening.
Quick note, so you learn something today: People passionate about their hobby who voice concerns aren't "whining". Stop being a jerk just because being on the internet makes it so easy for you to play the badass.
Most whining in this thread isn't justified as the disadvantages criticized are based on misconceptions. As I see it, most guys who actually play the beta (including me) like the changes. The ones complaining are mostly guys who just theorycraft based on screenshots and blogs.
To help Blizzard make better games, one should voice informed criticism. And post it in the official Blizzard forums.
On February 22 2012 23:06 Aela wrote: Diablo 3 is going extremly more casual+console. Looks like they want to adjust the game for a console-version.
The UI actually got more complex, this makes the PC version less usable for a console version. The console game will not be a direct PC/Mac port anyway, because the PC version has skills you need to aim with a mouse. While the Normal difficulty setting, especially Act 1, does target for casual gamers, the Inferno mode does not. Diablo 3 will be easier to learn than any previous Diablo, but also harder to master than any previous Diablo. For example in Diablo 2 one could always quit the game even with a hardcore char and use this to escape death. In Diablo 3 you will die as you cannot instantly quit the game. You also cannot use a TP during boss fights like in D2, where you always could TP out and buy some new potions.
On February 22 2012 19:44 hyperknight wrote: Stop whining. After all the whining, everybody is still going to shell out $60 for the game along with giving it at least a 9.5/10 in rating and will become fulltime users of the real money auction house (RMAH) because its going to be a great fucking game with a storyline that sucks you in and gameplay/loot addiction that will make you replay the game 10+ times over and over.
kick and cry all you want, you're still gonna play over 100+ hours of this game.
embrace the dark side and stop trying to fight it =D
KEKE
Really, posts like this is what dilutes the thread into a pool of poor content. Can you imagine if everyone had this mindset? It adds nothing, only a stupid bias that as long as people have shit to click on, we're good to go. I'd rather you flat out disagree with points in the thread than construct that "post" you made.
If I cared enough to keep you out of this thread, I'd hit the report button thats just burning to be clicked on. Just keep out from now on and watch from afar. You bring nothing to the table.
On February 22 2012 19:44 hyperknight wrote: Stop whining. After all the whining, everybody is still going to shell out $60 for the game along with giving it at least a 9.5/10 in rating and will become fulltime users of the real money auction house (RMAH) because its going to be a great fucking game with a storyline that sucks you in and gameplay/loot addiction that will make you replay the game 10+ times over and over.
kick and cry all you want, you're still gonna play over 100+ hours of this game.
embrace the dark side and stop trying to fight it =D
KEKE
Enough people with your attitude and we'll have Blizzard going down EA's path even quicker than it's already happening.
Quick note, so you learn something today: People passionate about their hobby who voice concerns aren't "whining". Stop being a jerk just because being on the internet makes it so easy for you to play the badass.
Most whining in this thread isn't justified as the disadvantages criticized are based on misconceptions. As I see it, most guys who actually play the beta (including me) like the changes. The ones complaining are mostly guys who just theorycraft based on screenshots and blogs.
To help Blizzard make better games, one should voice informed criticism. And post it in the official Blizzard forums.
Actually, from reading the d3 forums, I see the opposite being true. There are far more topics trying to raise awareness for how poor the changes have been compared to "Great changes! I just love 'em!" type of threads.
I really don't see how you got this complainer to theorycraft association. I'm going to assume that's just some homebrew opinion you decided to come to. I'm seeing a lot more people say they dislike what they're playing to what the game could be or even what it once was (which isn't much of an improvement compared to it's present development). If any of my previous posts are misconceived or unjustifiable, please, do tell. Because I assure you, I am not theorycrafting but going from experimentation. I have the beta, and graphics and audio aside, I very much dislike what I see from the early stages.
On February 22 2012 19:44 hyperknight wrote: Stop whining. After all the whining, everybody is still going to shell out $60 for the game along with giving it at least a 9.5/10 in rating and will become fulltime users of the real money auction house (RMAH) because its going to be a great fucking game with a storyline that sucks you in and gameplay/loot addiction that will make you replay the game 10+ times over and over.
kick and cry all you want, you're still gonna play over 100+ hours of this game.
embrace the dark side and stop trying to fight it =D
KEKE
People like you are the reason games released today are lower quality, not as thought-out and much less content-filled than older games. Because people like you are satisfied with everything they give you, so they give you less, and still you never make criticism or valid point on what should be better and rather are grateful.
On February 22 2012 23:26 Horrde wrote: Actually, from reading the d3 forums, I see the opposite being true. There are far more topics trying to raise awareness for how poor the changes have been compared to "Great changes! I just love 'em!" type of threads.
I dare to say this is because the majority of gamers is busy enjoying the game. I also predict that once the game is released, that most guys even on TL agree that the skill system works. Of course there will always be some who complain but you can't please anyone.
I know that sounds like a bold prediction. But at least from my experience, the skill system didn't nail it in earlier patches. Too often I just passed the newly unlocked skill. With the new system, most levels gives you something new which you are actually going to use. A large role in this plays the re-ordering of the skill unlock progression. But the unlocked runes play very well along with it as they offer more options. I could go further in detailled explaining but it's more than that. It's that – for me at least – it now feels right. Blizzard finally made a good skill system (but as of yet with a confusing UI.)
On February 22 2012 23:26 Horrde wrote:I really don't see how you got this complainer to theorycraft association. I'm going to assume that's just some homebrew opinion you decided to come to. I'm seeing a lot more people say they dislike what they're playing to what the game could be or even what it once was (which isn't much of an improvement compared to it's present development). If any of my previous posts are misconceived or unjustifiable, please, do tell. Because I assure you, I am not theorycrafting but going from experimentation. I have the beta, and graphics and audio aside, I very much dislike what I see from the early stages.
With that statement of mine I addressed the one-line postings which just repeat that D3 is going to be like a casual console game.
As I began to play the beta, I actually didn't really like the graphics. It looked too much like a D&D RPG to me. I did like the crafting system except I found it too tedious to collect the training pages. The skill system didn't look finished either. Now with Patch 13 it feels right or at least being on the right track.
But this thread here mostly consists of whining about the removal of the option to bind the basic attack, and about the rune changes. Both changes are okay within the context, though. The only valid complain I see is the skill UI for the elective mode. But it's still beta. We should come up with reasonable proposals how it could be done better and post them in their forums.
I haven't read this whole thread but I'm wondering what this new skill system means past level 30. Seems the old system had more going on once you reached the end of skill unlocking where as new system there doesn't seem to be anything past loot? Is this the case or am I missing something.
Correct. Before you had to hunt for runes to collect and combine in order to increase the degree of magnitude whatever the rune affect had on the skill. This served as a secondary loot finding system.
Now as you level, not only are skills and skill slots unlocked (just like before) but the rune types are unlocked as well. Every level 15 demon hunter will have the exact same abilities to their avail just like every level 23 barbarian will as well for one another. Choosing is as simple as selecting the skill, then selecting the rune from a sub-category and boom, you have your "customization." It pairs with your weapon of choice. There is no more degree of magnitude. The degree lies solely with your weapon or +damage attributes in the form of DPS and no more of the rune escalation type. What do you think of that? Pretty fun huh?
Everything is dependable upon level. Other than endgame gear, I predict there will be no more separation from the next guy. I like clementines and he likes tangerines and he likes oranges. You can do and have access to everything like everyone else so long as you match their level. A naked lvl 20 wizard is 100% like the next naked wizard of same level. Up until that point, people will craft to their will so long as it gets them by to that final level 60. 30-60 seems to be back on autopilot mode.
I dare to say this is because the majority of gamers is busy enjoying the game. I also predict that once the game is released, that most guys even on TL agree that the skill system works. Of course there will always be some who complain but you can't please anyone.
I know that sounds like a bold prediction.
I think it's a pretty passive prediction, because it can never truly be wrong. Whatever happens, happens. And most will just be 'meh' after a few months of playing, without a care to shake the system into something better any further. That is how I perceived that prediction. It's comparable to the SC2 social chat function. The system will always work, so long as the simple process of the program works bugfree. How poor it works is very much up for debate. If nothing changes as of now, people will eventually accept it and just play knowing it could be worse and slowly forgetting about what could have been. As many posters have shown, here and inside the blizzard d3 rage threads (ie "too bad, deal with it, lets just play already, I don't understand..." type posts) some will be content to eat whatever blizzard shits on a plate and places in front of them. If you can sitby and eat your heart out, more power to you. But many cannot.
There is a very large standup against the recent changes and of course beating the dead horse over past changes made by intelligent people who post some very valid points in the d3 forums.
It's too bad the guys that praise the system just cannot step away from the 45 minute content beta because they're so engulfed in how awesome it is to give their input and to see what any other people think of the game. "No! I got to kill king leoric again!" But in all honesty, I really don't think that's the case.
On February 22 2012 19:00 Makavw wrote: Apart from teribad ui, the gameplay itself is much more fun in patch 13. More skills, more enemies = more fun. The basic attack wont be missed, since I didnt even use it (any class shouldn't have) before this patch.
Those were always part of the game. It is just that they were opened up for beta.
Just because we are getting to test some of the skills now doesnt mean they never existed >.>
I joined the beta a few days ago (So I can't compare patch 13 with previous patches). UI is indeed really bad. (I'd always use elective). And swapping 2 skills from button is horrible. Also assigning new skills is still a bit meh. I don't want my skills spreaded over 5 pages.
Killing stuff is fun :D (can't compare it to older patches, so not much to say about that).
When playing as WD I missed auto attack a bit. When you're spamming poison darts, and you're really low on mana, but want to cast Grasp of Death (AoE skill which is better). You need to wait for a second or two. At this moment you can't do anything (can't cast dart cuz ur waiting for mana, and you can't auto attack yourself). But I think people are right and this should only be an issue on low level.
one other major annoyance is the auction house. When I compare this to WoW's auctionhouse, this one really is a setback. -You can only search items for the classes you are playing yourself. (although you'll end up with all the classes anyway, still terrible) -You can't search on item name. -For materials you have to set an amount you want before you can search (also not super bad)
Am I mistaken with these AH issues, or are they real?
On February 23 2012 02:17 imPermanenCe wrote: I joined the beta a few days ago (So I can't compare patch 13 with previous patches). UI is indeed really bad. (I'd always use elective). And swapping 2 skills from button is horrible. Also assigning new skills is still a bit meh. I don't want my skills spreaded over 5 pages.
Killing stuff is fun :D (can't compare it to older patches, so not much to say about that).
When playing as WD I missed auto attack a bit. When you're spamming poison darts, and you're really low on mana, but want to cast Grasp of Death (AoE skill which is better). You need to wait for a second or two. At this moment you can't do anything (can't cast dart cuz ur waiting for mana, and you can't auto attack yourself). But I think people are right and this should only be an issue on low level.
one other major annoyance is the auction house. When I compare this to WoW's auctionhouse, this one really is a setback. -You can only search items for the classes you are playing yourself. (although you'll end up with all the classes anyway, still terrible) -You can't search on item name. -For materials you have to set an amount you want before you can search (also not super bad)
Am I mistaken with these AH issues, or are they real?
AH complaints are pretty common but I don't like to complain about something like that and chat since those functions are always so transient.
The UI wouldnt bother me so much either so long as the problem in question deals with somethign I dont need to deal with very often at the end of the game. Like setting skills. Inventory UI obviously has to be good.
My beef with this particular skill UI is that it is simply a backwards step from the previous one. Its so clear a downgrade. Who looked at this and thought it was ok to put out there?
On February 21 2012 03:17 dacthehork wrote: - Can't swap skill hotkeys, aka if you want to switch your left cilck skill with right click skill you can't
Wrong. Go into gameplay options and check 'elective skills'. You can now bind skills any way you like (although in a cumbersome way which will probably be improved in a future patch).
I'm pretty sure you're entire post's meat goes wayside once you know this. The rest are just minor UI grievances you seem to be having.
I'm pretty sure he means this situation...
LMB - Hungering Arrow RMB - Bola Shot
Oh crap I want LMB to be bola shot! Let me fix that.
Oh wait you can't directly. You have to...
1. Bind LMB to a random skill not being used. 2. Bind Hungering Arrow to RMB. 2a. Wait for cooldown on LMB to finish. 3. Bind Bola shot to LMB. 3a. Wait for bola shot on LMB to finish.
Indeed. A minor UI grievance. How is this inconvenience (that will most likely be fixed up soon - it is beta after all) a leap backwards? Sounds like exaggerated whining to me.
On February 22 2012 19:44 hyperknight wrote: After all the whining
On February 23 2012 02:30 VPCursed wrote: i like the system and find the ui to work fine. I dont understand the bitching.
On February 23 2012 04:13 Gescom wrote: Dry those tears!
Is there a cave where you guys live together? Really, please tell us, so we can avoid you at all costs.
Don't agree with folks? Perfectly fine. But don't be assholes about it. Stay civil, like [F_]aths does, who manages to be polite despite the majority disagreeing with him. Don't have anything to contribute but trolling, provocation and snappy comments? There's the door.
Is there a cave where you guys live together? Really, please tell us, so we can avoid you at all costs.
Don't agree with folks? Perfectly fine. But don't be assholes about it. Stay civil, like [F_]aths does, who manages to be polite despite the majority disagreeing with him. Don't have anything to contribute but trolling, provocation and snappy comments? There's the door.
On February 21 2012 03:17 dacthehork wrote: - Can't swap skill hotkeys, aka if you want to switch your left cilck skill with right click skill you can't
Wrong. Go into gameplay options and check 'elective skills'. You can now bind skills any way you like (although in a cumbersome way which will probably be improved in a future patch).
I'm pretty sure you're entire post's meat goes wayside once you know this. The rest are just minor UI grievances you seem to be having.
I'm pretty sure he means this situation...
LMB - Hungering Arrow RMB - Bola Shot
Oh crap I want LMB to be bola shot! Let me fix that.
Oh wait you can't directly. You have to...
1. Bind LMB to a random skill not being used. 2. Bind Hungering Arrow to RMB. 2a. Wait for cooldown on LMB to finish. 3. Bind Bola shot to LMB. 3a. Wait for bola shot on LMB to finish.
Indeed. A minor UI grievance. How is this inconvenience (that will most likely be fixed up soon - it is beta after all) a leap backwards? Sounds like exaggerated whining to me.
Oh no, I agree with you, I actually have one of the first replies in this thread saying the OP is being crazy. The UI unquestionably has some issue though (but the underlying system is much more solid than before).
On February 23 2012 01:23 Horrde wrote: Now as you level, not only are skills and skill slots unlocked (just like before) but the rune types are unlocked as well. Every level 15 demon hunter will have the exact same abilities to their avail just like every level 23 barbarian will as well for one another. Choosing is as simple as selecting the skill, then selecting the rune from a sub-category and boom, you have your "customization." It pairs with your weapon of choice. There is no more degree of magnitude. The degree lies solely with your weapon or +damage attributes in the form of DPS and no more of the rune escalation type. What do you think of that? Pretty fun huh?
Everything is dependable upon level. Other than endgame gear, I predict there will be no more separation from the next guy.
There will be much variety through gear, gems, and personal preference before the end game. For example some skills are easier to use but less effective. With better items (the beta offers just a few basic item types) the difference in the gear compared to other chars also increases.
With runes as items you feel that you cannot use your character's full potential since you want rune type X for skill Y, but also a high rune level. Since the supply of runes is limited, you have to distribute your available runes to optimize your char. This requires much math. It distracts you from playing the game. You have to handle runes as items, meaning if you want to try out a new build, you have to click a lot.
Even though the new elective mode UI isn't the best, it's probably still way cleaner than the original rune item handling.
With the enchanter gone, I hope that Blizzard introduces more gems though. But even if we don't get it and have to wait for the expansion where we probably get charms through a talisman, the expansion still can be based upon a working skill system. If the old system would have worked well, it wouldn't have been replaced, or would it. We know that Blizzard scrapped some ideas, quite early, including charms, and some other stuff even during beta, to focus on the core mechanic.
It's easier to expand customizations based on a well-working system than add stuff to a ... weird system (see WoW, endless re-working, still not perfect.)
Yeah I really don't understand why people think that you can just be any spec at any time.
If I'm making use of Impale, Multishot, or Elemental arrow that's going to be one set of gear (probably attack speed and extra hatred). If I'm making use of Strafe and/or Rapid shot then I'm much better off with less attack speed and more damage and on hit effects. It's not clear that bola shot can stack on a single mob, so if I'm using bola shot then damage is the name of the game. If I'm using the traps and the companion then attack speed is almost worthless and I really need gear to help me build up discipline better as well as a high base damage.
Then even more with runes. On hit effects are awesome with hungering arrow + extra pierce chance (or at least immobilize is), but less important if I'm using a different rune.
It's not like you're going to have all this gear available to you all the time. People will still be different depending on how they gear up and what that means for their skills/runes.
“On a more serious note, I too worry that we won't be able to meet the expectations people have built up for themselves,” wrote community manager Bashiok. “Part of my job is managing people's expectations, so... eh... stop it. Stop thinking about how awesome this game could be. Just imagine it's a new M. Night Shyamalan movie. Sure Sixth Sense was amazing and Unbreakable had it's moments, but this right here is the sequel to The Village ... or The Happening ... or Signs ... or any of the movies besides the two I first mentioned. So just like, lower those expectations, but still definitely buy the game please, and everything will be just fine. K?”
“On a more serious note, I too worry that we won't be able to meet the expectations people have built up for themselves,” wrote community manager Bashiok. “Part of my job is managing people's expectations, so... eh... stop it. Stop thinking about how awesome this game could be. Just imagine it's a new M. Night Shyamalan movie. Sure Sixth Sense was amazing and Unbreakable had it's moments, but this right here is the sequel to The Village ... or The Happening ... or Signs ... or any of the movies besides the two I first mentioned. So just like, lower those expectations, but still definitely buy the game please, and everything will be just fine. K?”
What, Bashiok isn't allowed to make a humorous post anymore?
It's funny how most people demand Blizzard employees to tell us more generally while at the same time, every yet so small statement/quote there is from them gets torn apart by probably the very same people.
The Blizzcon 2011 Balance discussion by Browder and David Kim took the cake, every single word was dissected.
I hope none looks at that quote and goes "oh god, he thinks the game is awful!" - though I know people will -.-
“On a more serious note, I too worry that we won't be able to meet the expectations people have built up for themselves,” wrote community manager Bashiok. “Part of my job is managing people's expectations, so... eh... stop it. Stop thinking about how awesome this game could be. Just imagine it's a new M. Night Shyamalan movie. Sure Sixth Sense was amazing and Unbreakable had it's moments, but this right here is the sequel to The Village ... or The Happening ... or Signs ... or any of the movies besides the two I first mentioned. So just like, lower those expectations, but still definitely buy the game please, and everything will be just fine. K?”
wow, way to basically throw your job out the window
"dear gamers, diablo 2 was great. but diablo 3 might suck, sorry!"
I don't see what's wrong with what he said. Every gamer knows the terrible sting of hype from one point or another. We're about to play a game that people are looking back on fondly from 10 years ago with rose colored glasses to overlook all of its flaws. People are hyping up crazy expectations and demands for this game pretty much demanding from the onset that it has enough depth to allow them to play the game for 10 years like they did with D2. Meanwhile a whole other group of people are probably expecting D3 to take the genre to some crazy place that it's really not even shooting for (it's a high quality iteration on D2, not a breakthrough revolution to the genre).
There's no way any game can live up to that hype, not because the game can't be good enough, but because even the most minor flaws will cause players to enrage.
On February 24 2012 01:34 Logo wrote: Yeah I really don't understand why people think that you can just be any spec at any time.
If I'm making use of Impale, Multishot, or Elemental arrow that's going to be one set of gear (probably attack speed and extra hatred). If I'm making use of Strafe and/or Rapid shot then I'm much better off with less attack speed and more damage and on hit effects. It's not clear that bola shot can stack on a single mob, so if I'm using bola shot then damage is the name of the game. If I'm using the traps and the companion then attack speed is almost worthless and I really need gear to help me build up discipline better as well as a high base damage.
Then even more with runes. On hit effects are awesome with hungering arrow + extra pierce chance (or at least immobilize is), but less important if I'm using a different rune.
It's not like you're going to have all this gear available to you all the time. People will still be different depending on how they gear up and what that means for their skills/runes.
Yeah you can put multiple bolas on a single enemy.
WTF was Bashiok thinking? I mean.. he is the COMMUNITY MANAGER for christ's sake.
This is why I respect the FABLE 3 lead director. That dude was a stone cold killer. Guy stands on the podium dead serious and tells the world that FABLE 3 will be the greatest game of all time. He'll never be out of a job with that poker face.
How are you supposed to move your character around in this new control scheme? I always used to just right click to move around in D2. Are we supposed to use arrow keys now? Or is there something like the inverse of a-move, a key which lets you move-move?
--
Also, while we're anti-Blizzard ranting... anyone else here seriously not considering buying the game unless they allow offline play? Diablo 2 is a classic that we will be able to play and keep playing, regardless of whether Blizzard servers are up or Activision one day goes under. Diablo 3 is a game that we can't even play when we're without internet connection (or how about when there's slow internet?). I really really want to get Diablo 3... but I think the only-online play is too big a downside
Some of you might have seen some headlines or a certain (obviously sarcastic) blue post that implies that we're unsteady about where Diablo III stands, and that you should temper your expectations when it comes to the next installment in the Diablo series.
Let me be clear: Nothing could be further from the truth.
Surely, sarcasm can be hard to detect on the internet, but in this case it was damn obvious. But of course you're not the only one, nothing makes for a better headline than "Blizzard thinks Diablo 3 won't be that good!" - So that's what a bunch of websites did.
That hasn't been the first time either, Bashiok often made funny remarks etc. that then got taken seriously. And I like him as a CM quite a bit, I love it when he makes a sarcastic comment towards totally pathetic bullshit. But I guess that's not what you're supposed to do as a CM nowadays, not if you belong to a big company like Blizzard were everyone jumps on everything you say.
I'm not sure if I understand you, but I guess word wasn't the right term to use there? Otherwise I don't get your problem.
You despise the people trying to make sense into blizzard statement by saying "they dissect every words". Well, I'm sorry, but that's how you make meaning: you take a word, you put it in the context and you create meaning. You rant about nerds over-processing blue post, but you don't acknowledge the meaning of "On a more serious note".
Weeew, good thing it was just sarcasm/irony by "Bioshock".
On February 24 2012 18:19 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Yeah, I'm probably trolling, because every time we aren't sure about something we call someone a Troll nowadays, because hey why not.
You take no meaning from "On a more serious note" and rant about people dissecting words. I felt like all you wanted was to stir some shit, because otherwise.. what was your goal with posting such a comment? I guess, just like Bashiok, you had nothing better to write, you were bored and needed some attention.
Trolling is a technique used for fishing - Trolls are little green fantasy creatures. They are written almost identically but they definitely don't have the same meaning. It's important to use the right words in a proper context (without sarcasm or irony) if you want others to understand you clearly. Take example on Bashiok.. wait, no.
Dont have much to say about the UI but as for the new rune system, I love it. Im no casual gamer, quite frankly im the opposite. But I never liked the old rune system. Having to grind for skills just seems dumb. Yea i've grinded for gold in WoW, grinded for reputation but I dont want to grind for skills.
Is it easier? Lol, at the end of the day grinding for a rune takes no skill anywayz, so why not just give it to us. You know whats easier? Starcraft 2's improved UI is easy mode compared to brood wars. Sometimes change is for the better. I for one think this new rune change is good but there will always be people who think they are so great at games that they deserve more content than people who dont game as much. Giving people equal access to spells is awesome. You can still grind for better gear, why do you need the biggest variety of spells too?
On February 24 2012 17:42 TheRealPaciFist wrote: Uhhhhhhhh. I'm confused... =/
How are you supposed to move your character around in this new control scheme? I always used to just right click to move around in D2. Are we supposed to use arrow keys now? Or is there something like the inverse of a-move, a key which lets you move-move?
--
Also, while we're anti-Blizzard ranting... anyone else here seriously not considering buying the game unless they allow offline play? Diablo 2 is a classic that we will be able to play and keep playing, regardless of whether Blizzard servers are up or Activision one day goes under. Diablo 3 is a game that we can't even play when we're without internet connection (or how about when there's slow internet?). I really really want to get Diablo 3... but I think the only-online play is too big a downside
I'm greatly confused too :D Why do you think the controls have changed? It's exactly the same as D2 (the moving part at least), use of skills has changed a little bit, but isn't that different either. You still move with the mouse. Either left or right button, u can hold or click.
And I have decent internet, so I will buy it, period. It may suck for when you're out of internet yes, it is a downside yes. But I think I'll probably not be in such a situation that I want to play D3 when I'm without Inet. Only thing I can think off would be maintances, although they're mostly at midnight, so that shouldn't bother us.
On February 25 2012 11:01 Fumble wrote: Dont have much to say about the UI but as for the new rune system, I love it. Im no casual gamer, quite frankly im the opposite. But I never liked the old rune system. Having to grind for skills just seems dumb. Yea i've grinded for gold in WoW, grinded for reputation but I dont want to grind for skills.
Is it easier? Lol, at the end of the day grinding for a rune takes no skill anywayz, so why not just give it to us. You know whats easier? Starcraft 2's improved UI is easy mode compared to brood wars. Sometimes change is for the better. I for one think this new rune change is good but there will always be people who think they are so great at games that they deserve more content than people who dont game as much. Giving people equal access to spells is awesome. You can still grind for better gear, why do you need the biggest variety of spells too?
Lol, at the end of the day grinding for better gear takes no skill anywayz, so why not just give it to us.
On February 24 2012 17:42 TheRealPaciFist wrote: Uhhhhhhhh. I'm confused... =/
How are you supposed to move your character around in this new control scheme? I always used to just right click to move around in D2. Are we supposed to use arrow keys now? Or is there something like the inverse of a-move, a key which lets you move-move?
--
Also, while we're anti-Blizzard ranting... anyone else here seriously not considering buying the game unless they allow offline play? Diablo 2 is a classic that we will be able to play and keep playing, regardless of whether Blizzard servers are up or Activision one day goes under. Diablo 3 is a game that we can't even play when we're without internet connection (or how about when there's slow internet?). I really really want to get Diablo 3... but I think the only-online play is too big a downside
I'm greatly confused too :D Why do you think the controls have changed? It's exactly the same as D2 (the moving part at least), use of skills has changed a little bit, but isn't that different either. You still move with the mouse. Either left or right button, u can hold or click.
And I have decent internet, so I will buy it, period. It may suck for when you're out of internet yes, it is a downside yes. But I think I'll probably not be in such a situation that I want to play D3 when I'm without Inet. Only thing I can think off would be maintances, although they're mostly at midnight, so that shouldn't bother us.
But now there's a "Primary skill" mapped to mouse button 1 and "Secondary skill" mapped to mouse button 2. If both of those skills happen to be AoE targetable (as in, you target the ground), then you'd have no way to move!
Also, I think I decided what I'll do: I'll still get the game, but not for full price
On February 24 2012 17:42 TheRealPaciFist wrote: Uhhhhhhhh. I'm confused... =/
How are you supposed to move your character around in this new control scheme? I always used to just right click to move around in D2. Are we supposed to use arrow keys now? Or is there something like the inverse of a-move, a key which lets you move-move?
--
Also, while we're anti-Blizzard ranting... anyone else here seriously not considering buying the game unless they allow offline play? Diablo 2 is a classic that we will be able to play and keep playing, regardless of whether Blizzard servers are up or Activision one day goes under. Diablo 3 is a game that we can't even play when we're without internet connection (or how about when there's slow internet?). I really really want to get Diablo 3... but I think the only-online play is too big a downside
I'm greatly confused too :D Why do you think the controls have changed? It's exactly the same as D2 (the moving part at least), use of skills has changed a little bit, but isn't that different either. You still move with the mouse. Either left or right button, u can hold or click.
And I have decent internet, so I will buy it, period. It may suck for when you're out of internet yes, it is a downside yes. But I think I'll probably not be in such a situation that I want to play D3 when I'm without Inet. Only thing I can think off would be maintances, although they're mostly at midnight, so that shouldn't bother us.
But now there's a "Primary skill" mapped to mouse button 1 and "Secondary skill" mapped to mouse button 2. If both of those skills happen to be AoE targetable (as in, you target the ground), then you'd have no way to move!
Also, I think I decided what I'll do: I'll still get the game, but not for full price
Yeah as above guy said, you can't put such skills on mouse 1 button.
And not getting the game for full price = u wait half a year and then buy it? Won't solve your internet problem D:
And if you care for offline play so much, you might aswell pirate that game.. And then you'll miss out on awesome coop, achievements that link to your customizable banner and the auction house. (edit: again, I'm not pro-online only, just not bothered by it that much.)
If you're planning to play the game for more than a week, it's worth the money imo.
On February 24 2012 17:42 TheRealPaciFist wrote: Uhhhhhhhh. I'm confused... =/
How are you supposed to move your character around in this new control scheme? I always used to just right click to move around in D2. Are we supposed to use arrow keys now? Or is there something like the inverse of a-move, a key which lets you move-move?
--
Also, while we're anti-Blizzard ranting... anyone else here seriously not considering buying the game unless they allow offline play? Diablo 2 is a classic that we will be able to play and keep playing, regardless of whether Blizzard servers are up or Activision one day goes under. Diablo 3 is a game that we can't even play when we're without internet connection (or how about when there's slow internet?). I really really want to get Diablo 3... but I think the only-online play is too big a downside
I'm greatly confused too :D Why do you think the controls have changed? It's exactly the same as D2 (the moving part at least), use of skills has changed a little bit, but isn't that different either. You still move with the mouse. Either left or right button, u can hold or click.
And I have decent internet, so I will buy it, period. It may suck for when you're out of internet yes, it is a downside yes. But I think I'll probably not be in such a situation that I want to play D3 when I'm without Inet. Only thing I can think off would be maintances, although they're mostly at midnight, so that shouldn't bother us.
But now there's a "Primary skill" mapped to mouse button 1 and "Secondary skill" mapped to mouse button 2. If both of those skills happen to be AoE targetable (as in, you target the ground), then you'd have no way to move!
Also, I think I decided what I'll do: I'll still get the game, but not for full price
Yeah as above guy said, you can't put such skills on mouse 1 button.
And not getting the game for full price = u wait half a year and then buy it? Won't solve your internet problem D:
And if you care for offline play so much, you might aswell pirate that game.. And then you'll miss out on awesome coop, achievements that link to your customizable banner and the auction house. (edit: again, I'm not pro-online only, just not bothered by it that much.)
If you're planning to play the game for more than a week, it's worth the money imo.
Achievements aren't by any means awesome, they just take you out of the game's immersion.
I can't stand achievements. Back when 40% of games were actually awesome none of them needed achievements to make you feel like you were doing something while in fact you are just grinding random shit.
On February 24 2012 17:42 TheRealPaciFist wrote: Uhhhhhhhh. I'm confused... =/
How are you supposed to move your character around in this new control scheme? I always used to just right click to move around in D2. Are we supposed to use arrow keys now? Or is there something like the inverse of a-move, a key which lets you move-move?
--
Also, while we're anti-Blizzard ranting... anyone else here seriously not considering buying the game unless they allow offline play? Diablo 2 is a classic that we will be able to play and keep playing, regardless of whether Blizzard servers are up or Activision one day goes under. Diablo 3 is a game that we can't even play when we're without internet connection (or how about when there's slow internet?). I really really want to get Diablo 3... but I think the only-online play is too big a downside
I'm greatly confused too :D Why do you think the controls have changed? It's exactly the same as D2 (the moving part at least), use of skills has changed a little bit, but isn't that different either. You still move with the mouse. Either left or right button, u can hold or click.
And I have decent internet, so I will buy it, period. It may suck for when you're out of internet yes, it is a downside yes. But I think I'll probably not be in such a situation that I want to play D3 when I'm without Inet. Only thing I can think off would be maintances, although they're mostly at midnight, so that shouldn't bother us.
But now there's a "Primary skill" mapped to mouse button 1 and "Secondary skill" mapped to mouse button 2. If both of those skills happen to be AoE targetable (as in, you target the ground), then you'd have no way to move!
Also, I think I decided what I'll do: I'll still get the game, but not for full price
Yeah as above guy said, you can't put such skills on mouse 1 button.
And not getting the game for full price = u wait half a year and then buy it? Won't solve your internet problem D:
And if you care for offline play so much, you might aswell pirate that game.. And then you'll miss out on awesome coop, achievements that link to your customizable banner and the auction house. (edit: again, I'm not pro-online only, just not bothered by it that much.)
If you're planning to play the game for more than a week, it's worth the money imo.
$60 now is worth more than twice as much as $30 a year from now. If everyone protested like I did, Blizzard's profits would drop more than half (actually... I know that math is horribly off, because I don't know what the actual profit margins look like when you subtract out costs and intermediaries. But you get my point). It's a weak form of protest and it doesn't fix my internet, but what else can I do?
Also, would pirating even be an option? I know (or hope) that TL isn't the place to discuss pirating, but: I thought one part of the reason to not have offline play was to keep more of the game structure sort of on their side, so people can't just rip the game and pirate it. (Like, SC2 you can get the single player but that's it. Though in D3 if you could get the entire single player pirated, that'd be... wow. I dunno. I dont even feel good talking about it)
There are only two reasons why I even like online play: (1) coop (2) pvp Couldn't care less about achievements (stupid in SC2) or the banner (woopdeedoo) I'm really glad they're trying to make online play awesome, but that doesn't reduce my frustration with their removal of offline play... for a game series that's founded in single player
On February 26 2012 12:32 ShadowDrgn wrote: You can only bind certain skills to mouse 1 so that can't happen.
Yes in Diablo 3 a lot calculations are server based.
As there aren't an EU servers up yet (I think?) I have to play on US ones and from time to time the connection just doesn't seem to be good. Then it's pretty easy to recognize what's done server side. Or well if you just lose the connection completely.
You can still move and try to use skills, however the skills won't take place. Like using Bash with the Barbarian will result in a basic attack. You cannot use stuff like Leap etc. of course. So skills aren't done locally on your machine it seems. Same goes for damage/hit detection and item drops. Of course the whole game comes to somewhat of a still stand. Progression of any kind isn't possible then.
So yeh, I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be possible to create some Diablo 3 crack. What would be required is running one emulated server or of course make the multiplayer completely yourself.
Both those options however basically require you to get access to the stuff running on the servers or well you need to reverse engineer a server by the information you can gather from the BNet connection, however that seems something that's nigh impossible. I mean, who knows. If there are just some basic placeholder infos for the skills on your local machine then that would mean you will have to recreate each of the skills. Without source code - not possible. Including rune variations we're talking about >600 different skills. And as I mentioned above that's by far not all they're doing.
So yeah, if nothing goes terrible wrong there shouldn't be a cracked version out anytime soon.
And to be frank, I'm really, really interesting to see if Blizzard actually succeeds with this anti piracy method. I despise piracy and 99.9% of those doing it, do it for downright retarded reasons. I mean looking at even TeamLiquid, it seems like 1/3rd of the user base would feel justified to pirate SC2 due to UI issues etc.
Either way, Starcraft 2 had the offline Singleplayer component -> one of the most downloaded games on torrent sites etc. Far above 2million on just one of them in the first year if I recall correctly. Just once I'd like there to be a huge game coming out that people simply cannot pirate.
You can compile a whole WoW server by yourself if you want to spend the time. There are third party WoW, Diablo II, and who knows what else servers. I hardly think Diablo III can't have the same happen.
On March 01 2012 08:32 Kickboxer wrote: I can't stand achievements. Back when 40% of games were actually awesome none of them needed achievements to make you feel like you were doing something while in fact you are just grinding random shit.
Then don't worry about achievements. I don't care about achievements at all, but the fact that they are present doesn't hurt my experience at all. If others enjoy them, then I think it's a good idea.
On March 01 2012 10:58 ddrddrddrddr wrote: You can compile a whole WoW server by yourself if you want to spend the time. There are third party WoW, Diablo II, and who knows what else servers. I hardly think Diablo III can't have the same happen.
But fewer people will do that because they can't be arsed to download the game AND figure out where to go. Sure, there'll be there after a while but they're usually retarded versions of the real deal (that was the case in WoW at least).
And recently a friend bought me Diablo II + it's expansion. Having played the Diablo 3 beta before ever having touched Diablo 2 I can say Blizzard really improved the game alot. God can D2 be boring at the start (lvl 12 now wtih my barbarian in D2) where the default melee attack seems to be the most effective still. Maybe at the moment D2 is better then D3 lategame, but in the early parts D3 is waaaaay better.
On February 25 2012 11:01 Fumble wrote: Dont have much to say about the UI but as for the new rune system, I love it. Im no casual gamer, quite frankly im the opposite. But I never liked the old rune system. Having to grind for skills just seems dumb. Yea i've grinded for gold in WoW, grinded for reputation but I dont want to grind for skills.
Is it easier? Lol, at the end of the day grinding for a rune takes no skill anywayz, so why not just give it to us. You know whats easier? Starcraft 2's improved UI is easy mode compared to brood wars. Sometimes change is for the better. I for one think this new rune change is good but there will always be people who think they are so great at games that they deserve more content than people who dont game as much. Giving people equal access to spells is awesome. You can still grind for better gear, why do you need the biggest variety of spells too?
Lol, at the end of the day grinding for better gear takes no skill anywayz, so why not just give it to us.
Good strawman argument. Getting better gear and leveling up is the core of RPG games. Itemizing skills however was something blizzard was experimenting with. They ultimately thought it was not a good idea and I agree. Gear gives players enough to grind for, needing to grind for skills was not something I was looking forward to. I used the argument that it is easy anyways because people were against this idea just because they don't like the idea that people would have equal footing in abilities because they like to be an elitist.
Believe me, I understand though because I played WoW until end of WOTLK and I hated how they made good gear accessible to casuals. But I feel that grinding for skills is just too much.
On February 25 2012 11:01 Fumble wrote: Dont have much to say about the UI but as for the new rune system, I love it. Im no casual gamer, quite frankly im the opposite. But I never liked the old rune system. Having to grind for skills just seems dumb. Yea i've grinded for gold in WoW, grinded for reputation but I dont want to grind for skills.
Is it easier? Lol, at the end of the day grinding for a rune takes no skill anywayz, so why not just give it to us. You know whats easier? Starcraft 2's improved UI is easy mode compared to brood wars. Sometimes change is for the better. I for one think this new rune change is good but there will always be people who think they are so great at games that they deserve more content than people who dont game as much. Giving people equal access to spells is awesome. You can still grind for better gear, why do you need the biggest variety of spells too?
Lol, at the end of the day grinding for better gear takes no skill anywayz, so why not just give it to us.
Good strawman argument. Getting better gear and leveling up is the core of RPG games. Itemizing skills however was something blizzard was experimenting with. They ultimately thought it was not a good idea and I agree. Gear gives players enough to grind for, needing to grind for skills was not something I was looking forward to. I used the argument that it is easy anyways because people were against this idea just because they don't like the idea that people would have equal footing in abilities because they like to be an elitist.
Believe me, I understand though because I played WoW until end of WOTLK and I hated how they made good gear accessible to casuals. But I feel that grinding for skills is just too much.
Doesn't seem like grinding to me. Did "grinding" for skills in D2 bother you?
Though I guess there would be grinding involved to try to get to those runes that are at the latest level. I forget what they said about when you hit level 60... was it: normal 0-30 nightmare 30-50 hell 50-60 (inferno 61) ? Could be annoying playing through all of nightmare and hell without a lvl 60 rune you really want... but for the most part I'm really excited about the rune system, and it makes every level up feel more awesome than before
EPT
Doesn't make either of us right or wrong.
