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Hamza Kashgari, a 23 year old Saudi-Arabia national is facing persecution for a set (3) of tweets that he placed on his twitter account.
Recently the birthday of Muhammed (prophet of islam) came and passed. In reaction to this, Hamza Kashgari posted 3 tweets and is now facing a possible death sentence for what he did.
Now you might be wondering, what outragous thing did he say that would make people want to kill him?
I say people because this is not a totalitarian regime acting against the wishes of its people. This is a totalitarian theocracy acting entirely according to the wishes of the people. Facebook groups have been organized and tens of thousands of people have taken part in these groups that ask for "justice" (the death sentence) for Hamza Kashgari.
But back to what he said, what did he say that was so offensive that people want him dead?
The 3 tweets in question:
Tweet 1
“On your birthday, I will say that I have loved the rebel in you, that you’ve always been a source of inspiration to me, and that I do not like the halos of divinity around you. I shall not pray for you.”
Tweet 2
“On your birthday, I find you wherever I turn. I will say that I have loved aspects of you, hated others, and could not understand many more.”
Tweet 3
“On your birthday, I shall not bow to you. I shall not kiss your hand. Rather, I shall shake it as equals do, and smile at you as you smile at me. I shall speak to you as a friend, no more.”
The sentence for apostacy in islam is well known, death. But this is not apostasy. This man did not turn from islam, he simply questioned it.
And for his questions his home adress and various other locations (like the mosque he attended) were placed online. You can picture the result.
Hamza Kashgari escaped Saudi-Arabia when he noticed the growing storm, but reports are coming in that he might have been arrested in Malaysia, a country that will gladly sent him back to Saudi-Arabia to face a possible death sentence. Reporting is still unclear at this point.
There is a facebook group with thousands of muslims calling for the execution of Hamza Kashgari. As of this moment, there is no facebook group that calls for mercy.
So, this is what is going on in our "ally" nation of Saudi-Arabia. If they aren't busy exporting salafism then they are hunting down people that even dare to question the faith.
Is this "their way?" Is this their culture?
A 23-year old man is likely going to end up dead. Should we respect that? Should we tip our hat when they decapitate him? Should we silently shake our heads when they stone him?
Many people on this forum have probably lived longer then this man. Most of you will live to be older than Hamza. But 23-years old, that puts him into the same age group as most people on this forum.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/08/twitter-aflame-with-fatwa-against-saudi-writer-hamza-kashgari.html
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People don't understand how fundementaly backward the middle east is and why america thinks that we need to invade for their oil.
this is pretty much why. You can't expect them to be your friends while you shit on their culture and you can't shit on their culture without condemning thousands to death for one reason or another.
the reason why iran hate us so much is that we granted a guy that they hate a lot asylum in our country and saved his life. don't give a shit reason like its the right thing to do when you're talking about international politics.
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Well what can we realistically do? Not being rhetorical. Maybe grant him asylum?
I mean everyone knows Saudi Arabia is pretty theocratic and misogynistic in their law. The question is what should we do about it?
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The French discovered the solution to harmony in multiculturalism many many years ago:
Get the fuck off people's backyard! It's easy to debate on ideals and pure order, but we have to realized different people operate on different values. Given that most of us don't know about this in full detail, it's better that we leave them alone to sort this out.
I honestly don't know Islam law, and I don't know the gravity of his words in accordance to religion, but the most I think we can do is to leave this to the experts of traditional and progressive Islam culture and see how this recent event falls. The less people who know nothing say about this, and the more those who have authoritative knowledge on the topic express the facts and opinions, the better the discussion will be.
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Saudi Arabia has the most retarded variation of Islamic Law. This is really retarded.
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On February 10 2012 00:54 Le French wrote:
The French discovered the solution to harmony in multiculturalism many many years ago:
Get the fuck off people's backyard! It's easy to debate on ideals and pure order, but we have to realized different people operate on different values. Given that most of us don't know about this in full detail, it's better that we leave them alone to sort this out.
I honestly don't know Islam law, and I don't know the gravity of his words in accordance to religion, but the most I think we can do is to leave this to the experts of traditional and progressive Islam culture and see how this recent event falls. The less people who know nothing say about this, and the more those who have authoritative knowledge on the topic express the facts and opinions, the better the discussion will be.
While I agree we should ignore it because its not our problem, the issue is its unbalanced punishment and way over the top for his crime. If he said that in any country with real tangible rights he would not get in any trouble for using freedom of speech. These countries have government and religion so heavily intertwined that they are killing people for going against their faith and forcing it on others. Must of us can agree this is wrong on any rational scale and therefore condemnable. I won't deny some issues have gray areas but if you can't see that its wrong to kill someone for tweeting three lines then you/your country needs to seriously reevaluate itself.
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On February 10 2012 00:59 DragoonPK wrote:
Saudi Arabia has the most retarded variation of Islamic Law. This is really retarded.
Is there a non retarded version of a religion based legal system?
To expand, I think the American justice system sucks too and needs a major overhaul in how its carried out.
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I think if he had kept his beliefs to himself it could have been avoided.That is just the sociological norm there. Nothing unusual. The fact that it would be considered ridiculous in some other countries is kind of irrelevant.
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On February 10 2012 01:16 navy wrote:
I think if he had kept his beliefs to himself it could have been avoided.That is just the sociological norm there. Nothing unusual. The fact that it would be considered ridiculous in some other countries is kind of irrelevant.
Isn't that pretty bad though? I think it is, and it's fine to be reminded from time to time.
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amazing this is still happening amazing...
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it's so hard for me to understand why freedom of speech is not considered a valuable good and some parts of the world...
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Whatever you do, never mess with God or his people/saints/messengers.
When will humanity outgrow this myth.
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On February 10 2012 01:16 navy wrote:
I think if he had kept his beliefs to himself it could have been avoided.That is just the sociological norm there. Nothing unusual. The fact that it would be considered ridiculous in some other countries is kind of irrelevant.
How can it be irrelevant that a religion demands your death if you reject it. It does not matter what country it is, it's ridiculous. Especially in this modern age.
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On February 10 2012 01:43 BeJe77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2012 01:16 navy wrote:
I think if he had kept his beliefs to himself it could have been avoided.That is just the sociological norm there. Nothing unusual. The fact that it would be considered ridiculous in some other countries is kind of irrelevant. How can it be irrelevant that a religion demands your death if you reject it. It does not matter what country it is, it's ridiculous. Especially in this modern age.
the middle east really isn't in the modern age. That why we have so many problems in it.
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Interesting news, but this thread is going in a terrible direction.........
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All I can say is that the 3rd tweet really did him in. He could have easily gotten away with just the 1st one.
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Sad thing is, this probably happens to so many people around the world in countless situations, and only the ones who get notoriety for their actions have a chance for intervention. I think someone should help him out, you shouldn't be condemned for questioning things, that's actually the greatest thing you can ever do is question - and thats probably why they don't tolerate it; people thinking outside of their bonds? Slay him! it's archaic and maybe even stupid to let cultures and religions dictate the direction of a society. Most of these people are so brain washed to hate Western(ers) (influence) it causes a lot of unneccisary hate when we're just trying to help these people.
Everyone complains nobody does anything, then when people do, particularly the U.S, all the outrage is just the same, but from a different group of people. You can't win politically, for some reason people think letting people live under these conditions is Ok, everyone should be free to make such remarks, and question things among most else. The matter of how seem to be an issue I guess. Do the right thing, you cannot ignore a situation because the people doing it believe it's right, fuck them, what if it was your Life, or a family members, its nonsensical.
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On February 10 2012 02:29 v3chr0 wrote:
Sad thing is, this probably happens to so many people around the world in countless situations, and only the ones who get notoriety for their actions have a chance for intervention. I think someone should help him out, you shouldn't be condemned for questioning things, that's actually the greatest thing you can ever do is question - and thats probably why they don't tolerate it; people thinking outside of their bonds? Slay him! it's archaic and maybe even stupid to let cultures and religions dictate the direction of a society. Most of these people are so brain washed to hate Western(ers) (influence) it causes a lot of unneccisary hate when we're just trying to help these people.
Everyone complains nobody does anything, then when people do, particularly the U.S, all the outrage is just the same, but from a different group of people. You can't win politically, for some reason people think letting people live under these conditions is Ok, everyone should be free to make such remarks, and question things among most else. The matter of how seem to be an issue I guess. Do the right thing, you cannot ignore a situation because the people doing it believe it's right, fuck them, what if it was your Life, or a family members, its nonsensical.
US outrage is seen as hypocrisy because lots of things people get outraged about are things that the country has problems with. Having people live under these conditions is not okay, but there is no good way of solving it. When America shows that it is worthy of its holier-than-thou attitude, it may gain the right to call other countries out on their imperfections because it is already above it. Until then, attempts at "helping" other countries are nothing but selfish actions buried under demagogical excuses.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
It's a shame that Saudi's oil reserves form a protective barrier around their outdated and inhuman laws. You can question this guy's intelligence for courting punishment, but isn't it better for some to speak out and bring attention to these issues rather than everyone living 'intelligently' in fear? I wish this guy the best.
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EPT
