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Hey guys,
I wrote a short analysis of Losira's very solid ZvT style that he used to such great effect in the Code A finals.
You can see the full article here:
http://www.evolutioncomplete.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=49&Itemid=786
And here's an excerpt:
Losira’s play in this season of the GSL has been pretty dominant, which is really saying something in an era that’s been more or less defined by rants about Zerg being underpowered. In his recent Code A run, Losira has really shown some amazing games across all matchups, but what I really want to focus on today is his ZvT style. In order to really talk about Losira’s ZvT, though, we should probably first talk about the state of ZvT in Starcraft II in general.
Muta/Ling/Bane: Those are the three words that have defined this matchup for months. It’s a very potent, explosive style that builds on the mobility and the expendability of the Zerg race to punish Terran players for being out of position, or for just leaving their base in general. While the strength of muta/ling/bane is undeniable, one must also acknowledge how damn hard it can be to engage a Terran ball regardless of your unit composition. In the early stages of the mid-game, muta/ling/bane is amazing, but as games drag on, and as Terran becomes more and more stable, the raw fighting power of the muta/ling/bane army really begins to dwindle – and this, of course, only occurs if a Zerg player manages to survive whatever early pressure Terran throws his way.
This is the jumping off point I want to establish for the genius that is Losira’s recent ZvT.
If we were to define the key points of a typical Zerg vs. Terran game, it would probably look like this:
Some kind of early expand in close proximity with zergling speed.
- This gives Zerg both early map control, and the economic boon he needs to survive
A relatively quick Lair: usually with Zerg’s 2nd 100 gas.
- This opens up the Zerg tech tree, giving quick access to both baneling speed, and mutas, long-time benchmarks of ZvT
A tremendous gas investment in mutas, while using the map control they grant to expand freely
- Map control is everything, and mutas give us that.
Constant harass, ideally denying the Terran’s 3rd base, and eventually forcing a 2 base all-in that Zerg wins with a huge baneling/ling/muta engagement
- This is best case scenario, and it’s one that virtually every Terran player is familiar with.
However… Things change. Players improve. Metagames shift.
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Woooot? MrBitter, I didn't know you had a site like this, with event schedule and everything. And jemag has a stream too, yay  Very well done. Starting to read know, was waiting for this since I heard about it on your stream yesterday. Thanks!
CD
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I agree that the current trend in ZvT on most "safe maps" (long rush distances) the trend is to FE as zerg. However, I have recently been playing purely the stand safe opening of 14 gas 14 pool or close variations to get ling speed up quick. After seeing LosirA's game vs Byun in code A on shakuras where LosirA went gas before pool got great scouting intel on byuns stand FE as terran. This allowed Losira to have the information of knowning he could double expand and mass drone for endless amounts of time. Since seeing this game I have tried to emulate the exact style of play and it has been working great, however at first I realized I died a little bit to the 4 barracks after expansion marine/maurader stim timing push. So I worked on positioning overlords at optimal places to sac for the timing and it has worked great because if they do not do that push I am free to drone for an even longer amount of time and sometimes I can even get up a fourth base before the terran even moves out on his two bases. So I have been really enjoying the 14 gas 14 pool opener on ladder and a lot of terran still do 2 racks pressure and often make to big of a commitment against my speed opener and I can take an early advantage against the "mid master" terrans.
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Very nice read. I'm not exactly as enthousiastic about it as you seem to be, though. I like the conclusion, but at the moment hive tech seems to be quite weak so it's hard to imagine a better use of gas than mutas or baneling.
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<3 mrbitter
I was only able to watch few of Losira's games, and was disappointed that i didn't get to see his style in action and wasn't able to copy it.... so this article is just godsend :D
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On March 16 2011 17:55 evils_death wrote:
<3 mrbitter
I was only able to watch few of Losira's games, and was disappointed that i didn't get to see his style in action and wasn't able to copy it.... so this article is just godsend :D
Support sc2 and eSports and purchase the premium ticket to the vods so you don't have to watch them live at 2 a.m all the time.
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On March 16 2011 17:56 frozt_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 17:55 evils_death wrote:
<3 mrbitter
I was only able to watch few of Losira's games, and was disappointed that i didn't get to see his style in action and wasn't able to copy it.... so this article is just godsend :D Support sc2 and eSports and purchase the premium ticket to the vods so you don't have to watch them live at 2 a.m all the time.
I live in australia so GSL starts at 8pm for me :D
But I seriously do think thats a good idea, as I'm having trouble with SQ streams.... T.T
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United States976 Posts
As a Z player I was sooo pumped watching Losira play (also July, also FD in up/down), I think your article is great and pretty much sums up my thinking on the issue and equals my excitement about it. Well written, to the point, I love it, almost as much as I love Losira and all other great Zergs!!
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Great article, I missed Losira's games, but was aware of the "delaying your lair timing" build. However, you explained the finesses for me
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Very interesting article.
The late sentence is a wink to your "Skipping mutas for Infestors" article, MrBitter ?^^
One thing that makes me wonder is how good is this approach when dealing agaist drops ? It always have been the problem of non-mutas ZvT plays. Now T focus much more on marine-tank agression because it is doing so well against muta/ling/bane, but is a muta-less strategy long term viable because of this very threat of drop play?
I'd love to hear your opinion about this.
And I would like to add that your stream is one of the most useful content ever about SC2 strategy and you're part of the reason I'm not that bad of a player now. So thank you MrBitter.
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I love going mass banelings as well, always have since the beta. There is nothing more hilarious than blowing up the entire terran army ..... his natural ...... and his barracks in one giant acidy explosion. However I find this type of play is very susceptible to a Terran who employs a ton of drops, I always had a lot of trouble against drops but maybe there are cost effective ways of stopping drop play besides mutalisk. Good amounts of sunkens and infestors are the obvious answer but as the game goes on and your bases become increasingly spread across the map it gets hard to manage.
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nice write up MrBitter, i really enjoy reading the strategy writeups for zerg (zerg player myself). This doesn't seem too cost effective but i love seeing HUGE amounts of banelings. I'm going to have to try this out myself XD
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On March 16 2011 18:08 Synk wrote:
I love going mass banelings as well, always have since the beta. There is nothing more hilarious than blowing up the entire terran army ..... his natural ...... and his barracks in one giant acidy explosion. However I find this type of play is very susceptible to a Terran who employs a ton of drops, I always had a lot of trouble against drops but maybe there are cost effective ways of stopping drop play besides mutalisk. Good amounts of sunkens and infestors are the obvious answer but as the game goes on and your bases become increasingly spread across the map it gets hard to manage. Well not only drop play destroys this play but also mech, as baneling are pretty useless against mech. However, if you just go pure baneling you basically are going to become in cost effective as time goes on because stim marines can out micro banelings easily with siege tanks and when he gets enough tanks your army and economy will be gone. killing tanks with banelings is so cost ineffective it is not the optimal strategy in a high level setting.
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Interestingly enough, the Zv P(!) match-up also shifts towards a very late lair at the moment. The reasons are similar. Time to drone up (you also need an evo to be save against air and to go +1 lings or range).
So, I am definitely looking into this style and I actually quite like it.
Good post.
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Interesting.. but I would like to know how this would deal with drops. Just going mass baneling/roach/ling seems like it would be just asking for the terran to do drops on you in multiple locations... I'll have to try this out
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You sir are one of the reasons why I stick to Zerg. The amount of time you spend helping out us zergplayers are SOOO much appreciated. You probably know that already but I dont know if people tell you enough!
Thank you so much!
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Can we have a replay or BO plz with that, because this sounds amazing Mr.Bitter <3
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Thanks for highlighting a very exciting Z style. Watching those games I didn't think there was any way Losira was going to break some of the siege lines, but he just pounded through with that roach/ling/bane army. A couple points about his play stuck out to me as well:
Early and continuous upgrades. He started his +1s earlier than many "rush and save for muta" zergs do. When Lair eventually kicked in, he was ready to start +2s and stuff like baneling speed. I think his armor advantage really helped some of his waves of units that rolled over his opponents.
Crazy drones. He had 90+ in one of the games. And yet, he was spending all his money. Upgrades and banelings! Both roaches and banelings are more larva efficient than pure lings, so I think using that tech mix let him squeeze out more drones safely early on. Later, the supply efficiency of his banes meant he wasn't stuck up against the 200 cap too quickly.
A couple questions though. Do Terrans usually get Armory and mech upgrades earlier? I'm not sure if Losira's upgrade advantage is something Z can count on in this matchup, but it might be. It was surprising to see banes do so well against bunkers+tanks. I also wonder what kind of micro Losira did in some of his engagements. Roaches in first, to take some hits, but his ling/bling control seemed super effective. Was that just a-move with zerglings and move command on the banes, or something more sophisticated?
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An interesting read but as some people mentioned, the lack of mutalisks will make it hard to deal with drops. But then again if you have so much stuff, you could leave a few roaches and banelings behind, near the mineral line so to kill off drops. Also the extra money from not making muta's could also go into spines/spores possibly to defend.
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I ♥ you Mr Bitter as I'm sure you know already this style is going to make me super strong
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EPT
