• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:20
CEST 19:20
KST 02:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup9StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)71Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2316
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups? October World Ranking: herO stays #1, ByuN returns
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft Sagi.gg Launcher Released Fantasy returning? Bot on ladder [ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8887 users

The Battlecry of the Damned: Imbalance

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
Ursad0n
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States523 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 02:17:04
January 07 2011 01:37 GMT
#1
Imbalance - The reason 99% of players lost their games (or so they say...)
[image loading]

Introduction:

Now I've heard a tremendous amount of talk about imbalance since I expanded the SC2 section on the left and started playing again. It seems to be the talk of the town since the early days of beta, with the large influx of new posters running around not understanding the rules and regulations of the Glorious site that is Teamliquid.net. This influx of people who have not played the predecessor to SC2 - Starcraft: Brood War (the greatest game of all time to this day) - has upset the once stable, well balanced ecosystem that Teamliquid once was. The reason this is true is that the Brood War players had a wealth of RTS experience, and many of us played the game for large portions of our lives, playing through the bugs and so-called "Imbalances" and adapting builds to overcome them. For those of you who have not played BW or were not around early enough to experience all of the horrendous little gems that BW had to offer, I'd like you to watch this video:

+ Show Spoiler +


A Journey to the Past:

Now that you've seen that, you may be asking: What the fuck!? IMBALANCE
At the time, so were we...momentarily. Now let me just say that I didn't belong to TL until April of this year, and many of you will discredit me for that, and my fairly low post count, but I feel that is wrong. (Much like racism, as they are similar) Now if you'll look around you'll see a surprisingly large number of new posters, starting around when SC2 came out, but don't discredit them based on the low post count/join date. Merit should be based on the quality of the post, take Baller for example, that guy is a fucking badass, but has only a little over 500 posts. Then look at someone like CharlieMurphy who had over 20k posts, all garbage.
Back to what I was saying, of everyone that I played with at the time not one of them said, that's imbalanced bullshit / impossible to deal with / this game is broken, and lets be honest, that shit was fucking BROKEN.

Starcraft Brood War: Necessary Changes - Let's use patch 1.04 for example. It shows the massive amount of problems with the game.[spoiler Patch 1.04]
+ Show Spoiler +
Patch 1.04Edit
Changes:
StarCraft compatibility with Brood War implemented.
Resource Text Color changed to Green
Custom AI has been strengthened...beware.
Invincible Drone bug has been fixed
You can select all burrowed units of the same type or cloaked units of the same type by using the Ctrl+select method or by double clicking.
If you have multiple Carriers or Reavers selected you can build Interceptors and Scarabs for all of them at the same time.
Cooldown times of units being dropped out of transports corrected.
Stim Pack causing Firebats to fire slowly corrected.
Zergling adrenal gland upgrade effects corrected.
Fixed a bug where the muzzle flash on a full fire bunker aiming south displayed incorrectly.
Air unit movement near the edge of the map corrected.
The Ladder directory has been updated with the Season 4 ladder maps. Retired ladder maps have been moved to the OldLadder directory.
Changes to StarEdit (Map Editor):
New save feature that identifies all 'enhanced' data in the scenario and specifies which versions of StarCraft will be able to load the scenario.
Addition of the comparing conditional 'exactly' for use in such triggers as: ACCUMULATE, BRING, COMMAND, COUNTDOWN TIMER, DEATHS, ELAPSED TIME, KILL, OPPONENTS, and SCORE.
Increased number of Switches to 256.
Increased number of usable locations to 254.
Added the ability to specify 'Random' in the SET SWITCH trigger action.
Added the ability to name switches.
Added the ability to set Fog-of-War for multiple players simultaneously by holding down Control or Shift.
Added the ability to re-name any unit.
New triggers:
ORDER UNIT (Move to, Patrol to, Attack to)
The ability to specify a quantity for the following actions: CREATE UNIT, CREATE UNIT W/PROPERITIES, MOVE UNIT, KILL UNITS AT LOCATION, REMOVE UNITS AT LOCATION.
PAUSE/UNPAUSE TIMER
MODIFY UNIT ENERGY
MODIFY HANGER COUNT
MODIFY UNIT HIT POINTS
GIVE UNITS TO PLAYER
MODIFY UNIT RESOURCES
MODIFY UNIT SHIELD POINTS
SET ALLIANCE STATUS
COMMENT TRIGGER
END IN DRAW
SET UNIT DEATHS
You can now select locations obscured by other locations.
Location operations are now undoable.
You can now explicitly sort Conditions.
You can remove all Map Revealers from a map (really!).
The Unit and Hero Settings dialog has been enhanced.
A new StarEdit help file with info on these triggers and all the new features in StarEdit can be downloaded from our FTP site.
Balance Changes:
Terran:
Wraith:
Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Increased cooldown rate of ground attack.
Increased air to air damage to 20.
Dropship:
Increased speed slightly.
Science Vessel:
Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 225 gas.
Increased acceleration
Increased overall damage of Irradiate
Increased sight radius
Battlecruiser:
Increased starting armor to 3
Increased Yamato Cannon damage to 260
Goliath:
Increased ground damage to 12
Increased effectiveness of weapon upgrade on ground to air weapon system
Nuke:
Nuclear Missiles build faster
ComSat:
Decreased energy cost to 50
Starport:
Decrease cost of Starport to 150 minerals, 100 gas
Decreased add-on cost of Control Tower to 50 minerals, 50 gas
Decreased build time
Protoss:
Archon:
Increased acceleration
Dragoon:
Decreased cost to 125 minerals, 50 gas
Decreased build time
Increased range upgrade (Singularity Charge) by 1
High Templar:
Decreased energy cost of Hallucination to 100
Scout:
Increased Air to Air damage to 28
Decreased starting armor to 0
Increased shields to 100 and hit points to 150
Increased cooldown rate of ground attack
Carrier:
Changed build cost to 350 minerals, and 250 gas
Increased hit points of Carrier to 300
Increased starting armor of Carrier to 4
Increased Interceptor shields and hitpoints to 40
Increased Interceptor damage to 6
Decreased Interceptor cost to 25
Arbiter:
Decreased cost to 100 minerals, 350 gas
Shuttle:
Increased build time
Reaver:
Increased build time
Templar Archives:
Increased cost to 150 minerals, 200 gas.
Citadel of Adun:
Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas.
Stargate:
Decreased cost to 150 minerals, 150 gas
Decreased build time
Robotics Facility:
Increased build time
Robotics Support Bay:
Increased cost to 150 minerals, 100 gas
Observatory:
Decreased cost to 50 minerals, 100 gas
Forge:
Decreased cost to 150 minerals
Photon Cannon:
Decreased build time
Fleet Beacon:
Decreased cost of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade to 100 minerals, 100 gas
Decreased research time of "Increased Carrier capacity" upgrade
Shield Battery:
Increased starting energy to 100
Increased effective range of “Recharge Shields” ability
Zerg:
Overlord:
Increased speed bonus for "Pneumatized Carapace" upgrade
Decreased research time of "Ventral Sacs" upgrade
Scourge:
Increase hit points to 25
Hydralisk:
Increased build time
Queen:
Increased range of Broodling by 1
Increase energy cost of Parasite to 75
Decreased Parasite casting range to 12
Defiler:
Increased cost to 50 minerals, 150 gas
Hatchery:
Decreased the speed at which the Hatchery/Lair/Hive spawn new larva
Decreased build cost to 300 minerals
Increased build time
Sunken Colony:
Decreased cost of Sunken Colony upgrade to 50 minerals
Decreased build time
Increased attack rate of Sunken Colony
Increased damage to 40
Spore Colony:
Decreased build time
Changed damage type to normal
Greater Spire:
Increased build time

Now, that seems like quite a bit of problems to me. Have you ever seen a patch with notes that long in SC2? No, because it's not that bad. But I don't remember large Imbalance complaints. I remember things like This which was mostly everyone saying that a certain race was the best/their favorite, not which unit was completely broken. And from the same site:
Apr 24, 02 at 1:56

"for the best tactic its the prottos since if no rush 10 min the hurry and rush by making alot of goons and i have a very fast maker of units::::::::make 1(one)units at a time dont fill up the 5 space just make alot of gateways and make 1 of each and hurry until they *bleep* out just wait and make more!!!!"


Look at that, in a thread created in 2002, by some kid that played NR10, using only that build for 3 years was talking about how it wasn't that he was abusing imbalance, but rather that he was optimizing his build. Not saying "make mass goons they're IMBA!" but rather " if you make 1 unit at a time you get more faster."

Think about the two scenarios:
1- Someone makes mass dragoons and wins in BW - It's because he made his build efficient.
2 -Someone makes mass marauders and wins in SC2 - It's because marauders are OP

Why is that?

Freeze Frame: 3rd Person Look at Ourselves

[image loading]
Let's go into our replay folder, and open up the file named "Beta - The Journey" and analyze where we are now and how we got here, so we can decide what went wrong and how to fix it.

What went wrong?:
April 4, 2010 look what we have here an Imbalance thread, seem familiar? There are thousands of these, and the problem with it is: why say "this is imbalanced" and not "we need to formulate a response to X" in the first you are removing the player from the equation and saying the game is broken, not any inadequacy, and only because you lost/have difficulties with something. In the second, you recognize it as a strong build and wish to formulate a strong build to fight it with.

What's the difference?
By claiming imbalance you have already lost every game in which you come in contact that strategy by defeating yourself mentally, therefore you no longer are progressing in practice against it, and you aren't making solid builds against it because you assume they'll lose anyway. The only solution to imbalance is for Blizzard to A) Recognize something as imbalanced B) Come up with a solution C) testing the solution D) apply the Blizzard delay E) Have blizzard release a patch that is completely irrelevant to the problem and solves nothing F) the rest of the shit between then and a useful patch. The idea of Imbalance is like the plague, one person makes the post, it gets read (consciously or unconsciously) and the idea is out there, so if someone loses to that strategy they say it's imbalanced too.

My trying to fix the problem you can include everyone in the community in an effort to fix a build that took someone a long time to come up with, and you get the give and take of making builds and defeating them. End result being Starcraft BW. The process for this is A) find the problem B) Try to fix it C) win games with it. Which takes much less time and is good for the game.This spreads in a different format, because it is less interesting at first glance so less people see it. One person makes the post -> everyone else has already decided it was imba -> they get flamed -> everyone waits for a patch. How the HELL do you get better like that? It's ruining the community bit by bit.

So at the moment every single strong build is Imbalanced and no innovative strategies are created. Making the game boring and leading to everyone saying BW was better. OF COURSE YOU SAY IT'S BETTER - not because BW was a better game, but because everyone is making SC2 a bad game. It's absolutely ridiculous, and everyone complaining about MBS, Smartcasting, and other differences are adding to the problem. If you want to play BW, go play Brood War. Blizzard isn't going to listen to some people complaining that SC2 isn't the same as BW, and they don't fucking care, why would they make SC2 like BW. They already made BW they don't need to make it again. So they're just making themselves look bad and blaming those things for their loses.

Crystal Ball: Starcraft 3 (2049)

[image loading]

If we continue down the path we are on Starcraft will probably die out because the absurd amount of shitty posts flooding TL will reach a point where TL is no longer enjoyable to be on, and if people want to get called a fag by 12 year olds who call everyone better than them a nolife and worse than them a noob then they'll go play Halo or Call of Duty. Does everyone want that? Nothing good can come from the current low quality and high quantity of SC2 posts (mostly relating to imbalance).

The Solution: Making the Game What It Should Be:

Stop crying about imbalance
Play the game to improve
Stop making stupid useless posts
If u think BW is better go play it
Treat the game as if perfectly balanced, play to beat the Strong builds (not IMBA Strong)
Don't talk about imbalance
Don't respond to someone talking about imbalance
Go play the game and have Fun!!!!


Hopefully this will inspire at least one person to drop the Imbalance fad and play the game how it should be played. Everyone needs to remember that we fought hard to get this far and the imba cries and overall poor attitudes and the like are destroying it all. Day9 hasn't always been this huge superpower, in BW he was just a guy who wanted to talk about Starcraft, and he talked about it to ~500 of us live. and MLG has negotiated with Blizzard to get SC2 onto it's circuit and is investing in making it better each event. GSL has an $87k prize pool, but someday that money will have been wasted if everyone ruins the game. ICCup spent TONS of time on making BW as good as possible, and they said it's in Blizzard's hands, they said they don't intend to do the same for SC2 but rather want to work with Blizzard.

Lets go back to what Starcraft once was, a fun way to pass the time, and do something we love. And have an entire expanding community of people to interact with while we play. The Starcraft scene should have gotten better with the large foreigner proscene, but it's worse. Anyway that's it. Hope you enjoyed the read.

EDIT: Don't blame the map for a loss either, BW had maps, as SC2 has maps, that favor each race. Be it on purpose or accident, it is too early in the game to be able to consistently make maps that are well balanced because the scene is changing so fast, so maps are currently made for aesthetics and to prevent HUGE imbalances/abuses, but it's not getting better until the game settles a tad. So that is also not going to help you get better either, if you don't like a map take it out of your map preferences, and if you get it anyway, try to overcome the "so-called imbalance" with either a new build or just some simple tactics. Make the map balanced by the way you play, don't let the map's balance determine your play.
You make it sound like there's a correlation between what should happen and what actually happens. I mean, life is chaotic and it's often unfair. I know it is for me.
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
January 07 2011 01:39 GMT
#2
OH MY GOD THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS THREAD.

I'M SORRY FOR TYPING IN CAPS BUT GODDAMMIT I AM SICK OF IMBALANCE TALK.

Even worse is all the ridiculous and stupid suggestions to 'fix' the game on the battle.net forums lol.
Gemini_19
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1261 Posts
January 07 2011 01:42 GMT
#3
Please....post this on the B.net forums....it might save humanity...
@GGemini19 GM Protoss | http://www.twitch.tv/geminisc2 | I <333 HerO & Trap | Check out my Build of the Week series on /r/allthingsprotoss, TL, or Spawning Tool
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
January 07 2011 01:43 GMT
#4
well, in general i agree with you, great overall message. but its still blatantly obvious that there are certain things in the game which are clearly broken. like e.g. a thor surrounded by scvs vs zealots and their bugging out AI.....

"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Gemini_19
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1261 Posts
January 07 2011 01:46 GMT
#5
On January 07 2011 10:43 Black Gun wrote:
well, in general i agree with you, great overall message. but its still blatantly obvious that there are certain things in the game which are clearly broken. like e.g. a thor surrounded by scvs vs zealots and their bugging out AI.....



You can't argue AI problems as imbalance...that's technical coding problems.
@GGemini19 GM Protoss | http://www.twitch.tv/geminisc2 | I <333 HerO & Trap | Check out my Build of the Week series on /r/allthingsprotoss, TL, or Spawning Tool
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
January 07 2011 01:47 GMT
#6
On January 07 2011 10:46 Gemini_19 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 10:43 Black Gun wrote:
well, in general i agree with you, great overall message. but its still blatantly obvious that there are certain things in the game which are clearly broken. like e.g. a thor surrounded by scvs vs zealots and their bugging out AI.....



You can't argue AI problems as imbalance...that's technical coding problems.

actually its no technical problem, its the wrong assessment of the person who coded ai attack priorities to think repairing scvs would take lower priority than the unit they are repairing.

just like it was a wrong assessment of the unit´s strength to think reapers in their release-version-state were a good unit.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
jmack
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada285 Posts
January 07 2011 01:48 GMT
#7
This is awesome man, great read and really good emphasis on part of the mindset problem atm.

Great great stuff.
" (THEY DID IT THEY DID IT FXO DID IT!!! OMG John Lennon Toto destroyer LOLOLOLOLOL) " - Korean Reaction to QXC all killing team IM and destroying safe bets everywhere.
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
January 07 2011 01:49 GMT
#8
Nice read, good writeup.
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
Cush
Profile Joined September 2010
United States646 Posts
January 07 2011 01:50 GMT
#9
you sir should leed us into the anti-imbalance movement
"That's not your main base Stardust.....Stardust.....that's not your main" Sayle
Gemini_19
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1261 Posts
January 07 2011 01:50 GMT
#10
On January 07 2011 10:47 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 10:46 Gemini_19 wrote:
On January 07 2011 10:43 Black Gun wrote:
well, in general i agree with you, great overall message. but its still blatantly obvious that there are certain things in the game which are clearly broken. like e.g. a thor surrounded by scvs vs zealots and their bugging out AI.....



You can't argue AI problems as imbalance...that's technical coding problems.

actually its no technical problem, its the wrong assessment of the person who coded ai attack priorities to think repairing scvs would take lower priority than the unit they are repairing.

just like it was a wrong assessment of the unit´s strength to think reapers in their release-version-state were a good unit.


Oh THAT problem, lol. I misread, apologies.
@GGemini19 GM Protoss | http://www.twitch.tv/geminisc2 | I <333 HerO & Trap | Check out my Build of the Week series on /r/allthingsprotoss, TL, or Spawning Tool
SenorChang
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia4730 Posts
January 07 2011 01:50 GMT
#11
The Solution: Making the Game What It Should Be:

Stop crying about imbalance
Play the game to improve
Stop making stupid useless posts
If u think BW is better go play it
Treat the game as if perfectly balanced, play to beat the Strong builds (not IMBA Strong)
Don't talk about imbalance
Don't respond to someone talking about imbalance
Go play the game and have Fun!!!!


Some very good points but sadly there is always going to be imbalance talk :< I also think some people misconstrue what is constructive and just plain imbalance whinging simply because they play the race and are feeling frustrated about someone beating them in a certain manner.

There is nothing that is completely imbalanced in this game atm assuming you have played properly and scouted and had the appropriate information to be ready to deal with it.
ლ(╹◡╹ლ)
Adomine
Profile Joined May 2010
United States43 Posts
January 07 2011 01:50 GMT
#12
Very good read, liked the SC 1 video as well.
Truffy
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
January 07 2011 01:55 GMT
#13
Hmm I had low hopes for this thread after opening it, but really interesting writeup. I especially liked the video showcasing old SC1 patches. Lol spawning pool at 150 mins =)
1a2a3a-->gg
Ursad0n
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States523 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 01:58:32
January 07 2011 01:56 GMT
#14
On January 07 2011 10:47 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 10:46 Gemini_19 wrote:
On January 07 2011 10:43 Black Gun wrote:
well, in general i agree with you, great overall message. but its still blatantly obvious that there are certain things in the game which are clearly broken. like e.g. a thor surrounded by scvs vs zealots and their bugging out AI.....



You can't argue AI problems as imbalance...that's technical coding problems.

actually its no technical problem, its the wrong assessment of the person who coded ai attack priorities to think repairing scvs would take lower priority than the unit they are repairing.

just like it was a wrong assessment of the unit´s strength to think reapers in their release-version-state were a good unit.

Honestly up until about 2 weeks ago I was like them (except I didn't make imbalance threads) but one day I was like no, I'm done with this shit, I'll never be good if every loss is blamed on imbalance, because I'll never learn how to fix it. I realized it when I saw someone ask: "how do you stop a protoss cannoning in a zerg at the ramp?" and the first answer was "wait for the patch"

As for the thor AI bugging out thing, I've started looking at it from the perspective of - "I shouldn't have let him surround my thor". Instead of "stupid thor AI" Because preventing that effectively will make me a better player, and I can do it in the future if a similar glitch happens again.

EDIT: Thanks everyone who liked it!
and I saw that video like 3 months after it came out and I was laughing the whole time. lol it was just so funny.
You make it sound like there's a correlation between what should happen and what actually happens. I mean, life is chaotic and it's often unfair. I know it is for me.
Calm
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada380 Posts
January 07 2011 01:57 GMT
#15
IMHO, people should have to read this before signing up for TL. Like one of those cheesey 80's videos that workplaces have introducing the company to new employees. Only this OP is not from the 80's. Nor is it cheesey.
ERGO
Profile Joined October 2008
United States168 Posts
January 07 2011 02:00 GMT
#16
On January 07 2011 10:43 Black Gun wrote:
well, in general i agree with you, great overall message. but its still blatantly obvious that there are certain things in the game which are clearly broken. like e.g. a thor surrounded by scvs vs zealots and their bugging out AI.....



stop.

If we bitched about bugged out ai, we never would have gotten past 6 pools that break the zealot wall off with a drone drill.

Get over it, that build is beatable at any level of play.

Any level of imbalance that exists in this game right now is NOTHING compared to what an amateur can do just by practicing for a day. You want to see imba, go train in a build order tester for two days.
Never.enough - Nicht.genug
Fulgrim
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States560 Posts
January 07 2011 02:01 GMT
#17
Great post, I agree with most of the things that you say. You need to work with the game you have, not the game you want to have.
One does not simply walk into mordor
Ursad0n
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States523 Posts
January 07 2011 02:08 GMT
#18
On January 07 2011 11:00 ERGO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 10:43 Black Gun wrote:
well, in general i agree with you, great overall message. but its still blatantly obvious that there are certain things in the game which are clearly broken. like e.g. a thor surrounded by scvs vs zealots and their bugging out AI.....



stop.

If we bitched about bugged out ai, we never would have gotten past 6 pools that break the zealot wall off with a drone drill.

Get over it, that build is beatable at any level of play.

Any level of imbalance that exists in this game right now is NOTHING compared to what an amateur can do just by practicing for a day. You want to see imba, go train in a build order tester for two days.

Looking past the negative attitude here he is so right about how Practice >>>>>>> Imba

In the last 2 weeks I started watching qxc's stream and I got a bunch of his replays so I could figure out what types of unit compositions do well vs others and what ones fall flat. I also don't cheese, ever, because I don't need to (because I have nothing to gain/lose by wins/losses) and I've improved exponentially. I can Identify a build from the early game and I know from there what I must do to win, and if I lose it's because I did something wrong. If I say the other player is better than that's excusing the loss, which doesn't make me get better.
You make it sound like there's a correlation between what should happen and what actually happens. I mean, life is chaotic and it's often unfair. I know it is for me.
Oxb
Profile Joined August 2010
199 Posts
January 07 2011 02:09 GMT
#19
great read, i never ever blamed something on imbalance yet and always avoid such reading such topics, sometimes however I get frustrated by reading comments and have 10 people going on and on about imbalance rather than giving advice/good counter build or w/e.
As long as you're not super pro Jinro/MC/Boxer/TOP/Nestea/etc.-style you can't really talk about imbalance because there is most certainly something you didn't do well, presumably scouting and getting an counter build rather than just macro some units up.

I'm a gold player and i never felt I played vs a build that was imballanced, i'm not good and most of the time the problem is I don't know or know too late what is comming and end up with too many mara in my mmm army when my oponent goes air for example.

Hope this shuts some people up, thanks for the write up!
Xswordy
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom425 Posts
January 07 2011 02:12 GMT
#20
Very good post. Should be made sticky.
1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
01:00
#66
RotterdaM668
TaKeTV 244
IndyStarCraft 143
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 2311
RotterdaM 668
ByuN 326
IndyStarCraft 143
MaxPax 122
BRAT_OK 73
UpATreeSC 44
MindelVK 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3567
Shuttle 817
Mini 427
Stork 407
EffOrt 370
Shinee 182
Mind 175
Rush 173
Dewaltoss 127
Mong 83
[ Show more ]
910 77
Zeus 73
hero 64
Yoon 59
HiyA 52
Snow 52
JYJ 28
Bale 26
sorry 25
Killer 22
ToSsGirL 21
Sexy 12
zelot 11
Sacsri 10
scan(afreeca) 9
Dota 2
Gorgc5195
qojqva2953
Counter-Strike
fl0m5479
Fnx 688
pashabiceps655
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby1820
Other Games
singsing2175
Beastyqt620
ceh9578
Hui .210
XaKoH 132
Trikslyr74
QueenE66
mouzStarbuck62
Chillindude25
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV202
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream23
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 33
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 25
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Shiphtur283
• imaqtpie227
• WagamamaTV98
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 40m
Afreeca Starleague
16h 40m
Soma vs Soulkey
INu's Battles
17h 40m
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
1d 6h
Patches Events
1d 22h
The PondCast
2 days
INu's Battles
2 days
Percival vs TBD
TBD vs herO
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Patches Events
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.