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I've been practicing with something that can be called a contaminate build. After getting Zerling Speed and Queen all the gas goes to get 3 overseers. After I get them, I use them to cast Contaminate on the hatchery - with 3 overseers, you can do that all the time.
Contaminate blocks additional larva from being spawn and also pauses the Spawn Larva ability and all the research at the hatchery. There's more - if the enemy Queen uses Spawn Larva on a contaminated hatchry then the Spawn Larva resets.
By doing that, I can just produce anything I want (I preffer to early produce zerlings and tech to Muta after 3 overseers) and the enemy just can't keep up. It's a real production victory
The replay below is against medium AI, as it's rather a concept, then an actual build.
http://screplays.com/replays/mickotula/8116
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I've actually been thinking about doing something like this to delay that lair tech and slowly come out ahead with spire tech, I may explore this more later.
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This is incredibly interesting...i'm wondering right now if it would still work against a 2-base build (FE, or just a second hatch, if you can get it up safely before the overseers come).
Regardless, it seems that the overseers would be up before you would expect mutas in ZvZ, so it's definitely an interesting move, at least as a surprise tactic. Gonna test this out, see how it goes.
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dont open a trash topic like this, if you have an idea, make it happen, analyze it, post replays and tell about details... The concept isnt that horrible but these kind of threads drive me crazy
User was warned for this post
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On September 09 2010 00:07 Geo.Rion wrote:
dont open a trash topic like this, if you have an idea, make it happen, analyze it, post replays and tell about details... The concept isnt that horrible but these kind of threads drive me crazy
Sorry, but not everybody have the time to do the research. And what if somebody already tried it? Then all the things I would do would just be a waste of time. Anyway, I will try to do some research and then I will just simply get back here... That's how things work, right?
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On September 09 2010 00:07 Geo.Rion wrote:
dont open a trash topic like this, if you have an idea, make it happen, analyze it, post replays and tell about details... The concept isnt that horrible but these kind of threads drive me crazy
In no way do i feel this is a trash topic. The OP is simply suggesting a theory that he wants to discuss.
Anyways, I think this is a very interesting concept considering zvz mostly revolves around 1 hatchery for the majority of the game. IT seems like it would work very well if you can pop out a lair and get the 3 overseers before he can get mutas. Assuming you are correct about 3 overseers being able to constantly contaminate I think this might turn into a 100% victory strat.^^
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Can't watch the replay because I'm at work, but how do you protect the overseers against the double queens? Flood the base with speedlings until the queen is dead?
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On September 09 2010 00:23 drats wrote:
Can't watch the replay because I'm at work, but how do you protect the overseers against the double queens? Flood the base with speedlings until the queen is dead?
Well in my situation the enemy got 1 queen. Need to test it, but it's possible to stop the second queen with the first overseer. Overseers are faster then overlords, to they won't be takan down so easily. And you can always produce more Overseers and focus on zerlings.
The other thing I've noticed it's that you force your enemy to get Mutas... And you can early on plan on how to deal with that.
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One thing I miss is that contaminate doesn't work on photon cannons anymore. Anyone know if fortresses and bunkers still attack? I recall a game contaminating a bunker, but couldn't tell if it was still attacking.
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Fortresses attack as far as I know, so it would be safe to assume bunkers attack too, and simply cannot be laoded/unloaded/salvaged while under spell.
300 gas is it for 3 overseers? If you've both raced to Tier 2, I would assume he would put down a spire? Where would it go from there? As long as you can keep him permanently in lockdown.. But then again he can simply throw down spores after an evo cahmber?
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On September 09 2010 00:57 febreze wrote:
One thing I miss is that contaminate doesn't work on photon cannons anymore. Anyone know if fortresses and bunkers still attack? I recall a game contaminating a bunker, but couldn't tell if it was still attacking.
Contaminate blocks production now, so it just makes the PF unable to produce SCVS but it can still attack. Contaminate on a bunker MAY block salvage but I'm not sure about that.
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Contaminate in zvz has the potential to be op, but I have yet to actually see someone use it in this way.
Regardless, it's probably worth using spare overseer energy to contaminate a hatch every so often, even if you're not trying to perma-block larva.
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On September 09 2010 00:13 fazir wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 00:07 Geo.Rion wrote:
dont open a trash topic like this, if you have an idea, make it happen, analyze it, post replays and tell about details... The concept isnt that horrible but these kind of threads drive me crazy Sorry, but not everybody have the time to do the research. And what if somebody already tried it? Then all the things I would do would just be a waste of time. Anyway, I will try to do some research and then I will just simply get back here... That's how things work, right?
NO, definetly not, at least it should not, but who am i kidding... Threads like this remaining open, makes me want to quit posting. You dont have time? Absolutely no problem, dont open a topic then. You have an idea want to get out of yourself? Make a blog, as the content you put in it is no way worthy of a thread.
User was warned for this post
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I do this a lot vs protoss to delay the collosus death push. Buying just 2-3 more spits changes the entire game.
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On September 09 2010 16:29 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 00:13 fazir wrote:On September 09 2010 00:07 Geo.Rion wrote:
dont open a trash topic like this, if you have an idea, make it happen, analyze it, post replays and tell about details... The concept isnt that horrible but these kind of threads drive me crazy Sorry, but not everybody have the time to do the research. And what if somebody already tried it? Then all the things I would do would just be a waste of time. Anyway, I will try to do some research and then I will just simply get back here... That's how things work, right? NO, definetly not, at least it should not, but who am i kidding... Threads like this remaining open, makes me want to quit posting. You dont have time? Absolutely no problem, dont open a topic then. You have an idea want to get out of yourself? Make a blog, as the content you put in it is no way worthy of a thread.
Did you have a bad day? Maybe your dad didn't hug you enough  . Anyways, I'm happy this was posted, as a 700+ diamond I've hit a wall in zvz and now I have something new to try. Cheers OP, I probably wouldn't have though of this  .
User was warned for this post
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WTF, last I remember testing, contaminate didn't do anything for hatcheries I thought (except block queen or research of course).
So you're saying now for sure that it pauses both spawn larva timer (and lets the player cast another spawn larva even though there's already one that's frozen?) and normal hatchery larva production?
Nonetheless, while much more useful vs zerg than vs terran or protoss, I think this build is not really viable, because it requires quite a bit of gas investment quite early on, at which point the opponent could very well outpower the player. Queen fire will eventually make the overseer(s) unable to go in again without dying, too.
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Most high level ZvZs start out with Baneling wars, then turning into mutalisk war. If you manage to survive the baneling war with this build he will have 3 more mutas than you due to not wasting 150/300 resources, and once his mutas are out he can go overseer hunting.
I've seen a lot of these overseer theorycrafting threads for all match ups, never seen a high level replay of someone making use of it. Its just not practical.
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On September 09 2010 00:32 fazir wrote:
The other thing I've noticed it's that you force your enemy to get Mutas... And you can early on plan on how to deal with that.
Err, its ZvZ, Mutas are always in the game... It is simply so much better to get mutas than be on the other end...
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On September 09 2010 16:29 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 00:13 fazir wrote:On September 09 2010 00:07 Geo.Rion wrote:
dont open a trash topic like this, if you have an idea, make it happen, analyze it, post replays and tell about details... The concept isnt that horrible but these kind of threads drive me crazy Sorry, but not everybody have the time to do the research. And what if somebody already tried it? Then all the things I would do would just be a waste of time. Anyway, I will try to do some research and then I will just simply get back here... That's how things work, right? NO, definetly not, at least it should not, but who am i kidding... Threads like this remaining open, makes me want to quit posting. You dont have time? Absolutely no problem, dont open a topic then. You have an idea want to get out of yourself? Make a blog, as the content you put in it is no way worthy of a thread.
Who assigned you mediator of threads?
+ Show Spoiler +[D] Discussion threads
Be clear about the topic and the feedback your are hoping for
This is the most open form of thread. Use a Discussion thread if you are not certain about some game mechanic and you want to get the feedback from other players. This can be about strategy and tactics, the role and viability of certain units, rock paper scissor counters, etc. The building blocks of what becomes sound SC2 strategy.
While the thread is less formal, please be clear and concise on the topic you want to discuss about, and open with your own opinion. Don’t make the topic too broad.
This is the perfect way to post a strategy you came up with that is not quite ready to be turned into a guide (See below). Post your strategy and point out the areas where you are not sure about it’s validity and ask for feedback.
Get acquainted with the guidelines before you attempt to play god again, Mister Snob.
On topic, OP's idea is pretty good. I had no idea that Contaminate resets Spawn Larvae and also halts production of larvae as well. This would actually be really effective in ZvZ. Muta/ling/bling's gonna turn into Muta/Overseer, haha. Basically, whoever produces more will simply win.
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You really gotta kill the first queen for this to have a prayer of happening. Overseers don't last forever. If indeed contaminate blocks larva creation AND inject larva's mechanic, then I'd just expand to use the resources I can't use yet. My army on the ground actually has gas spent on units that are more powerful that your mostly-zergling army so you have no ability to deny my expansions.
I consider this theorycrafting better discussed with a practice partner as you try it against regular ZvZ builds like speedling/baneling and roach openings. Then you get it down to a phantom timing where you can stop his army cold and he can't' rebuild fast enough or whatever. Assuming this is accomplished, you upload a couple proof-of-concept replays showing the refinements you've put on there after losing to your partner many, many times. Then you get some recognition for making a thread with substance--good replays!!--instead of another thought experiment of what could be.
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EPT
