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United States33369 Posts
My Friday skim over the Korean SC II communities shows that the hot topic right now is the prevalence of cheese rushes in TvP. Basically you rush with a handful of early marines and the vast majority of your SCVs. While this was not as viable on BW, this build is considered to be extremely difficult to stop in SC II.
I've read a few variations on the build order, stuff like 9 supply 11 rax 12 rax, or 10 rax 11 supply 11 rax. There are variations using orbital command to mine so you can send all of your scvs. All the matters is you send 6~8 marines and nearly all your SCVs (keep just enough at home to build from 2 rax).
The buzz I get is that it's really hard to stop straight up, with the only reliable way to stop it being to get a forge for cannons. And the terran response to scouting a forge is to simply expand ASAP for the huge build order advantage.
I've only had time to test it a few times, but I was really surprised at how fast you can get 6~8 marines to your opponent's base, and how powerful SCVs with the new AI can be.
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lol! i do this quite a bit in many matches TvAnything, terran basically has the best t1 ranged units anyway, and unit blocking with scvs is logically superior. i've won a few TvT's and TvZ's especially just sending in my SCVS with my timing attack
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Oh god, I can see this being an absolute pain in the ass, what have you brought upon us!?
I don't see it being easy for a 13 gate toss to survive this push, even if you go zealot before core.
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probably why 2 gate is gona be standard play anyway
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haha ive been going two proxy rax a lot against toss the last few games, and so far no counters....
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in sc1 u had dragoon micro to take it down, but stalkers r way too weak imo :/ if they made stalkers stronger maybe this problem would be solved, wouldnt mind them making rines 40 hp and get +15 with the upgrade. t rine+scv own so much early game
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Melbourne5338 Posts
On March 13 2010 21:16 threehundred wrote:
probably why 2 gate is gona be standard play anyway
2 gate didnt work either. scvs block too well
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why dont nerf terran then ? they got something working for them , let break it .
after all they dont play protoss or zerg so they got no reason to get some rush working for them .
in fact im 6-2 using this build , 2 loss was from 2 gateway + many probe send for def . you need to send probe for survive . but since you need probe that probably imbalanced . we need to nerf scv to 30 hp and add let say 10 sec for marine .
you protoss user have think about canon maybe ? and you can alway get the +1 attack at the same time .
after all maybe that the same reason for protoss , you play it too much like starcraft 1 and dont understand the race yet .
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if protoss scouts properly and get cannons, the cheez fails
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I take it this happens before toss can get sentries out? or is this more of a scrap station (i.e. map dependant) cheese?
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On March 13 2010 21:54 Oddysay wrote:
why dont nerf terran then ? they got something working for them , let break it .
after all they dont play protoss or zerg so they got no reason to get some rush working for them .
in fact im 6-2 using this build , 2 loss was from 2 gateway + many probe send for def . you need to send probe for survive . but since you need probe that probably imbalanced . we need to nerf scv to 30 hp and add let say 10 sec for marine .
you protoss user have think about canon maybe ? and you can alway get the +1 attack at the same time .
after all maybe that the same reason for protoss , you play it too much like starcraft 1 and dont understand the race yet .
wow that is some seriously broken english, pretty hard to tell what you mean
On March 13 2010 22:31 jamvng wrote:
if protoss scouts properly and get cannons, the cheez fails
did you read the OP at all?
On March 13 2010 21:10 Waxangel wrote:And the terran response to scouting a forge is to simply expand ASAP for the huge build order advantage.
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*ahem*
BUFF STALKERS!
But, yeah, I think having Stalkers that actually did decent damage versus light would go a long way towards making this cheese more easily counterable by Protoss. With micro Stalkers should be the perfect counter to this kind of thing.
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I have been talking to kkong about this topic lately. Kkong is ranked the 4th in his platinum division ladder at the moment. I suppose everyone on TL.net knows him, yeah?
Basically this is what he told me - there is no way of stopping it, regardless of which build you take, 1 gate or 2 gate opening.
The only way to stop it is to take 1 gate -> forge build, and get cannons ASAP. Then again, if the Terran sees it - which he definately will, since there is no way of preventing the scv from scouting your base in the early game - all he has to do is just expand, and take advantage of having more resource.
There has to be something done quickly about this matter, since this has been happening in just about every T vs P game that's been played for the past few days, at least amongst the Korean players. The survival rate for the Protoss has been less than 10% - and I'm not kidding or exaggerating.
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Time for Protoss to be on the defensive for once! it deserves it!  Terran uber alles!
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I've done this vs 1 gate core in BW too... It's easy to stop just pull all your probes and pump zealots out and you'll be fine. All you have to do is survive with anything at all and you're ahead because you have more tech.
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Time to start abusing this build and i mean it - let Blizz see how powerful it is
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I watched Orb lose a game to this last night, and he was very very upset. He blamed the slower gateway timing along with the warp gate nerf for why this strategy was "unstoppable".
Of course, he determined it was unstoppable after not scouting and losing to it in one game.
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On March 13 2010 22:31 jamvng wrote:
if protoss scouts properly and get cannons, the cheez fails
But he ends up economically behind, so you still have an advantage, marines out to contain, and you can expand. More troops, more minerals, and a safe transition. Fair?
(I just switched to Tarran because I was having trouble with this as P. LOLOLOL no one else can stop it too so I feel better
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On March 13 2010 23:42 TheAntZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 22:31 jamvng wrote:
if protoss scouts properly and get cannons, the cheez fails did you read the OP at all? Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 21:10 Waxangel wrote:And the terran response to scouting a forge is to simply expand ASAP for the huge build order advantage.
LOL oooooooppsss i actually did..but tht was the first time i looked at the thread and then i went to play sc2 and forgot tht the OP said it
ive been doin another cheese build:
(ive said it previously already) 2 rax proxy rite off in the beginning with a rax at 9 and another rax at 10 and then pumping marines against T and P..and I've been winning non stop unless toss gets cannons rly early or terran gets a bunker...i duno if its because it CANT be stopped or ppl just arent scouting properly and its the same as any proxy rax cheese in BW
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EPT
