EPT[D] TvP Cheese rush overpowered? - Page 14
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Bane_
United Kingdom494 Posts
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Spail
Russian Federation6 Posts
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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Spail
Russian Federation6 Posts
On March 17 2010 01:07 Floophead_III wrote: Crap station has a monster rush distance. Beating the rush there is elementary. I did it with a terrible build and no micro on a laptop last week. What? No it doesnt. Rushing on this map takes as much time as on Blistering Sands for example. Who did you play vs? Hope its not another bronze league guy. | ||
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On March 16 2010 21:46 Bane_ wrote: It kinda feels like an scv change is going to happen one way or another since you now have people doing 9/11 scv rushes (backed up by 2 more that build and rally over so 11 in total) on the smaller maps like steppes of war and they can win because of that extra 10 life each worker has compared to their P and Z counterparts. 20 extra life | ||
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Bane_
United Kingdom494 Posts
Thanks for the correction.  | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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sikatrix
Canada172 Posts
(I "perfect" it after that game, and games end ~6:50) 2nd http://www.mediafire.com/?nzttcnn2wmo 3rd http://www.mediafire.com/?ztzdouzznmk 4th http://www.mediafire.com/?jznmzgvfdan Those are only a few of my recent last games, and were the "closest" to stopping it. All reps have somewhat sloppy play by me but i'm still able to pull it off, which imo is a problem. Also all reps are vs plat players, if that has any relevance. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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CieZ
United States50 Posts
After I finish my reading and discussion blog for one of my classes I'll test the rush against some one. I believe that as long as it is scouted it is definitely beat-able, but it would be interesting to try different counters/timings I think. | ||
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
There's just too much one-gate tech, chronoboosting solely on probes, and generally lazy T1 on toss out there. First unit out is a stalker and they shoot straight for robotics with no scouting, minimal to no attempt at simcity, and the first reaction is "cheese- nerf" and/or insults. Sikatrix of those games(I sure you can watch replays I'm just pointing it out to make a point) -First toss was supply capped for 60 seconds to get his firs zealot out -third toss waited 60 seconds to make his first zeal, then makes a stalker and forgets to use chrono -fourth toss's first unit was a stalker, and had a robo out by the time your rush hit. That's 1 stalker defense straight to T2. You could have opened normally, scouted that, put a reactor on your rax and beat him that way if you wanted to. All 3 have no practical attempt at scouting. Only the second made a real chance at countering. He would have been better going for a sentry than a stalker, and then made -no- micro attempt at all on the battle. This rush might be too strong with the slower gateway, but most toss are playing such sloppy T1s that I can't feel guilty. | ||
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On March 17 2010 10:52 cartoon]x wrote: pulling all SCVs will stop production from your racks... facepaaalm///// | ||
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CieZ
United States50 Posts
It is just better to play it this way than getting an OC because either way it is a complete all-in strat... You're not going to recover from losing 95% of your economy, plus not harvesting any gas, and losing all your military. Therefore it is way better to spend those minerals on extra marines/SCVs and just throwing everything at the enemy anyways... There is just no reason to leave anything behind if the outcome of the attack decides the outcome of the game. | ||
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GoodNewsJim
United States122 Posts
On March 17 2010 11:23 CieZ wrote: It is just better to play it this way than getting an OC because either way it is a complete all-in strat... You're not going to recover from losing 95% of your economy, I play SCV+Marine rush by only pulling off 6 SCV. It doesn't significantly impact my economy, so I can keep making SCV+marines, and eventually even get tech units. Its nice to have extra mineral coming in so you can create bunkers all through the Protoss base. I did it a lot in SC1 too when ladder speed was fast(more micro oriented), and River Styx was in the ladder pool. The cool thing is that the strategy worked even better on Zerg in SC1 pre broodwar. With Broodwar, Lurkers countered a terran SCV+marine rush that stalls into a bunker wall supported by tanks. Maybe the ALL in SCV+marine rush is what everyone is talking about, but I push in with 6marines + 6 SCV, and I don't even notice my economy being slowed down much since I'm still constantly making SCV+marines. I'm just saying you can do this rush without going all in and it be successful. | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
Finally got to trying the build out in single player on steppes of war. I got 6 marines and scvs on opponents ramp at 4;13 in game time. The purpose was to compare it to Floophead's replay timings as he was able to stop an allin with his 1gate core build. If you look at what you have at that time it's one sentry barely finished and one just starting. Your opponents rush came 30game seconds late because of that dumb OC. Also Terran can shave even more time off that speed if he can pull scvs faster so that it reaches their ramp as the 6th marines pops. | ||
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Antimage
Canada1293 Posts
Sorry to bump this thread a little, but I've started to find another way to play pvt. By opening pylon/gate/gas/pylon with a probe in their base, if I don't see a gas come up on their end, i put a forge down b4 and put a cannon at my ramp. Once they get rid of my probe, I send another probe below their ramp to check if they're going to come at me with a bunch of marines and a shitload of workers. If the masses of marines/scv's come, I will cannon up another 2 (the games I tried this in today, it didn't come to this as the forge/cannon they scout usually discouraged them) and fend it off. If they don't come, then it means they just got a late gas in lieu of an orbital command or something, and I promptly put a nexus down at my nat. The point is, in this opening, you're forced to play very defensively, and you will probably end up a little economically behind than you would if you played a regular game. Come mid-game, you should have an ob at their base to see what's going on and react properly. I don't think this will set behind the Protoss player in an even matchup, as you pretty much have an instant win by the time your colossus comes out. Maybe the matchup is meant to be played this way? Where Terran will be able to pull out 1 or 2 vikings for your colossus in time, as EMP is obviously not an effective counter to it. Just a thought, but let me know what you think. I'll be willing to try this out with people too, just PM me. | ||
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Spail
Russian Federation6 Posts
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
On March 18 2010 10:28 Antimage wrote: Hmm Sorry to bump this thread a little, but I've started to find another way to play pvt. By opening pylon/gate/gas/pylon with a probe in their base, if I don't see a gas come up on their end, i put a forge down b4 and put a cannon at my ramp. Once they get rid of my probe, I send another probe below their ramp to check if they're going to come at me with a bunch of marines and a shitload of workers. If the masses of marines/scv's come, I will cannon up another 2 (the games I tried this in today, it didn't come to this as the forge/cannon they scout usually discouraged them) and fend it off. If they don't come, then it means they just got a late gas in lieu of an orbital command or something, and I promptly put a nexus down at my nat. The point is, in this opening, you're forced to play very defensively, and you will probably end up a little economically behind than you would if you played a regular game. Come mid-game, you should have an ob at their base to see what's going on and react properly. I don't think this will set behind the Protoss player in an even matchup, as you pretty much have an instant win by the time your colossus comes out. Maybe the matchup is meant to be played this way? Where Terran will be able to pull out 1 or 2 vikings for your colossus in time, as EMP is obviously not an effective counter to it. Just a thought, but let me know what you think. I'll be willing to try this out with people too, just PM me. You don't need to wait for his gas as confirmation. Just see if he made 10 rax 11 supply 11 rax... | ||
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