|
On January 26 2014 10:33 Foolishness wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 25 2014 09:35 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 00:08 kitaman27 wrote:On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote:
Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread This is the post that still bothers me the most about Foolishness when he groups austin and sandroba in his null reads. Foolishness, I know you stated several times that you were treating sandroba as wait and see, but what are the "strong appearances" and "things brought to the thread" that you are referring to with sandroba's posts. I mentioned earlier that I disagreed with his assessment, but you didn't reply. Could you please point out what you were seeing? This is from a while ago, but his posts I saw when I made that post were: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=20#381http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=21#408And I thought these were fine at the time. A lot of you seem to think that I'm doing things 12 hours after they happened when in reality it's been a lot closer. I saw sandroba and austin both come to the thread and start posting, and I didn't post long after that (a few hours at most). As I said, my mindset was, "well they've been kinda afk so far, but as long as they keep posting I don't have an overwhelming reason to suspect them". Look at my list where I put austin and sandroba in the same category; this is exactly why. Gonzaw kinda brought this up here but let's go through these scenarios cause it's important. Scenario 1Foolishness is mafiaPromethelax is mafiaYes, after seeing that my case on WoS during day 1 didn't have as much merit as I thought at the time, I immediately decided to bus my own teammate. Not only that but I was also under scrutiny in the thread, why would I bring attention to another mafia member when I can push a case on someone else (HolyFlare? Marv maybe?). Better for me to just keep pushing on WoS or pick a new target, no sense is putting two mafia members under scrutiny on day 1. Speaking of HolyFlare, this is off topic from my current explanation but when I went back later on and reread his posts I thought he might be town. I don't even remember why but that's what I thought. I don't like reading into people getting replaced out so I focused my attention elsewhere. If HolyFlare is town I expect Toad to be able to prove it to us sooner and not later. And by sooner I mean end of night 2 at the absolute latest. Secnario 2Foolishness is MafiaPromethelax is townThis is the only scenario out of the three that the town should be worried about as I didn't want to switch to sandroba and even said so straight up (the reason I didn't want to was because I saw Marv move his vote and I was really sketchy about him at the time. I didn't like what I was seeing last minute and I got super scared it was just town derp switching onto another town). But as I pointed out in my earlier posts what is the mafia doing the entirety of day 1 when I'm accumulating votes? As gonzaw pointed out this would only make sense if the entire mafia team (but myself) is afk (so like, HolyFlare also mafia). Furthermore, if I'm mafia and Promethelax is town, then wtf is up with sandroba's vote 30 minutes before the deadline? His post wasn't a mafia post trying to save his buddy, that was a mafia pushing what he perceived to be a safe lynch to make his team look pretty for the future days after I flip town or Promethelax flips town. I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1. Scenario 3Foolishness is TownPromethelax is mafiaWhy the hell did sandroba push onto Promethelax when he could have easily just been like, "yo guys I've caught Foolishness as mafia in three separate games on day 1/2, this is a free town lynch"? Doesn't make sense. Secnario 4Foolishness is TownPromethelax is TownI brought this up before, but go back and read sandroba's case on Promethelax. After sandroba's vote both Promethelax and I had 3 votes apiece (if I'm not mistaken here). Mafia were very very very happy with the votes at this time. Town Foolishness is under scrutiny and about to get lynched, and second in line is another town who Foolishness (apparently well-known scumhunter) is 100% convinced is mafia. Wow find me a happier mafia team on day 1 in a normal or all-vanilla game. Sandroba was not throwing his vote down to save someone or push for any lynch. Mafia were happy with who was getting lynched that day and there was no need to do anything about it. THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH IS VERY IMPORTANTLook at this from sandroba's point of view in this scenario. The only people with votes are two townies. He drops his vote on Promethelax with the following mindset. "Let's say Foolishness gets lynched. Sweet, I just push on Promethelax the following day and tell the town, 'yeah guys you fucked that up, Foolishness is best scum-hunter NA we gotta lynch Promethelax now'. Let's say Promethelax gets lynched. Sweet, I just admit my mistake and push Foolishness the following day and tell the town, 'yeah damn sorry about that read, this guy Foolishness is definitely mafia and 100% misled the town into a bad lynch. Many people said that lynch was bad from the beginning we should never have listened to Foolishness'". No matter who got lynched sandroba was in a great position, that is until he himself got lynched instead. Sandroba's vote was not a push to get the town to do something. No, it was lazily cast knowing that both suspects were town and he could ride it through the next day.
THIS SHOWS THAT PROMETHELAX IS TOWNLook at all four above scenarios. Scenario 3 makes the least amount of sense cause then sandroba's vote is an awful mistake. Scenario 1 doesn't make sense cause that means I bussed my own teammate (when I could have easily gone after WoS from the start or anyone else) and oh btw also means Promethelax bussed sandroba last minute (keep in mind him and Hapa voted 1 minute apart so in essence they both hammered that vote). The remaining two scenarios both have Promethelax as town. Because he is. Regardless of what you think of me as well, though the above and my earlier posts should prove my innocence as well. If you guys wanna spend 9 hours going down the conspiracy theory hole then cool story bro. Or you can just look at the facts and deduce the following: Town wins if WaveOfShadow, VisceraEyes, Kitaman, and Toad all die.
Also my time is very limited today and tomorrow but I will try to be here when I can. .
This is a post that shows what I mean.
You put lots of possible scenarios. Okay, good I guess.
You come down to the "important" one:
Secnario 2
Foolishness is Mafia
Promethelax is town
This is the only scenario out of the three that the town should be worried about as I didn't want to switch to sandroba and even said so straight up (the reason I didn't want to was because I saw Marv move his vote and I was really sketchy about him at the time. I didn't like what I was seeing last minute and I got super scared it was just town derp switching onto another town). But as I pointed out in my earlier posts what is the mafia doing the entirety of day 1 when I'm accumulating votes? As gonzaw pointed out this would only make sense if the entire mafia team (but myself) is afk (so like, HolyFlare also mafia).
Furthermore, if I'm mafia and Promethelax is town, then wtf is up with sandroba's vote 30 minutes before the deadline? His post wasn't a mafia post trying to save his buddy, that was a mafia pushing what he perceived to be a safe lynch to make his team look pretty for the future days after I flip town or Promethelax flips town.
I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1.
This explanation has holes in it.
But as I pointed out in my earlier posts what is the mafia doing the entirety of day 1 when I'm accumulating votes? As gonzaw pointed out this would only make sense if the entire mafia team (but myself) is afk (so like, HolyFlare also mafia).
If your buddy is kita, then he spent all the end of D1 pushing town Prome. If your buddy is Holy, he was AFK. Nobody else makes sense as scum (WoS town makes sense, others were sandro-voters).
So, there's no real problem with this
Furthermore, if I'm mafia and Promethelax is town, then wtf is up with sandroba's vote 30 minutes before the deadline? His post wasn't a mafia post trying to save his buddy, that was a mafia pushing what he perceived to be a safe lynch to make his team look pretty for the future days after I flip town or Promethelax flips town.
What was up with sandro's vote 30 minutes before deadline? There's no contradiction with scum sandro voting town Prome 30 minutes before deadline if you are scum. That explanation you posted makes no difference, you are just assuming you are town and narrating what scum sandro would do. You didn't show you were town, you just assumed you were town and explained sandro's vote.
Here is it again, ALL of your "logical explanations" and the like have you assume you are town, and then you spend paragraphs and paragraphs creating the story around that assumption. Like here:
THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH IS VERY IMPORTANT
Look at this from sandroba's point of view in this scenario. The only people with votes are two townies. He drops his vote on Promethelax with the following mindset. "Let's say Foolishness gets lynched. Sweet, I just push on Promethelax the following day and tell the town, 'yeah guys you fucked that up, Foolishness is best scum-hunter NA we gotta lynch Promethelax now'. Let's say Promethelax gets lynched. Sweet, I just admit my mistake and push Foolishness the following day and tell the town, 'yeah damn sorry about that read, this guy Foolishness is definitely mafia and 100% misled the town into a bad lynch. Many people said that lynch was bad from the beginning we should never have listened to Foolishness'". No matter who got lynched sandroba was in a great position, that is until he himself got lynched instead.
This does make sense right? Yeah, it assumes you are town. If you drop that assumption, then scum sandro voting Prome with you as scum makes sense as well (the part from above which you misdirected into using it to your favour).
But here you are, trying to sell us this story as if it was the truth like you are some kind of salesman, with tactics like "look at this from sandroba's point of view..." and the like.
This is an example of you "confusing" us, of you "distracting" us, of you "manipulating" us. You are not clear, you don't say "If I'm scum and Prome town, it's a possibility, end", you go on and on using fallacies and taking bad assumptions trying to "convince" us it's right.
Then you go on and on about assuming both of you and Prome being town and how "it's the right thing" and the like trying to sell it to us.
I end up reading that post not having a clear idea of what you are posting. Apparently the conclusion is "I'm town", but it's not clear with all those fallacies, wrong stuff, misdirections, etc.
That's what you've been doing this whole game basically (you've wasted a lot of time with this kind of stuff).
You are not being direct, you are confusing town, bla bla bla, specially with stuff that has no relation to scumhunting.. Would Town Foo do this?
Does someone else see the same stuff I see, or am I too biased or something?
|
Alright.
There are a lot of things that I want to say and a lot things that I want to do, and I'm going to get to all of them.
First things first:
I don't care if people think I was scum picking a townread to lean on from the start for cred, that my reasons were garbage, that I was being stupid. I feel pretty goddamn vindicated right now and it feels pretty damn good. I'm thinking I may have to start bringing the way I play voice mafia into forum mafia a little more. More than anything I think my VE read could be described as gut feeling+, and while the reasons didn't always come across strongly, or I didn't do a good job of proving it evidently, I did my best not to waver and I was right. I feel good about myself for that and I'm going to be letting my confidence continue to shine through for the remainder of this game.
The one thing I do regret is that I didn't push even harder for VE not to be lynched, and I couldn't be around to push Foolishness, because now as a collective we pay for that mistake, and for that I'm sorry. VE...I did what i could but you made it REALLY hard, man. Much <3 but in postgame I feel like you and I are going to have a chat. More than ever now though, I know I have to win this game in order to continue our streak.
Now obviously this isn't the most important thing to be talking about, but that's why I'm getting it out there first. Say what you like about me or what I just posted, but every once in a while, it feels good to be right even the outcome was shitty.
I'm going to be re-reading the thread from the time that I left up to this point and posting some thoughts and things. I'm not sure if people are around, but I may have to wait on responding to anything new in specific. I'm already going to be holding myself back from raging a little at some things I remember reading, and I'm also going to be trying not to be overly arrogant and snide because that doesn't help anything much, and trying to keep a calm and collected mindset probably won't jive if I have to discuss certain things with certain people.
Posts to follow.
|
On January 26 2014 06:29 Toadesstern wrote:
hey VE, if you're still there, do what WoS asked you to do.
Start quoting what got you angry. I don't care what it is, start doing so.
This and one of Toad's posts earlier struck me as buddying considering I was nigh unlynchable at that point, but I am going to leave that thought behind and move forward, because more than anything he was right.
On January 26 2014 06:35 austinmcc wrote:Yes. Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 05:39 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 26 2014 05:35 austinmcc wrote:
Mostly afk while cooking delicious foods. Still considering. I don't think I'm straying from VE and Foolishness today. Don't want to vote Toad right now, so if I strayed it would be possible WoS (weird townread on VE, some posts with a small quantity of meat (same applies to Foolishness), and he also +1ed Foolishness's "sandroba active now so he's probably townie" statement).
Kita is entirely off my radar in a bad way, I have not chatted with him today like I wanted to, and when I think of his filter this game, nothing particularly good or bad springs to mind. He's also still the probably candidate for a Foolishness partner, i THINK. Can you show me that? Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 04:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
And for the record I probably am probably scummier on inactive Foolishness than inactive sandroba. Could be bias because I have precedent in PYP for sandroba in terms of an early game lurk then blasting onto the scene, but as was mentioend before (I forget by who atm?) sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around, whereas Foolishness basically hasn't talked to anyone, he just threw stuff and fucked off multiple times.
It's not about saying one scummier than other. It's about saying "like someone else said, sandroba was actively engaging the thread when he was around." I was the guy he was talking to. I got a couple posts from him, all of them not quite about what I was asking, and then he dipped. Not so much a +1 as I LOVE THIS, but a +1 like..."someone brought this up and it carries weight with my read." At this point, Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 06:07 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 06:03 gonzaw wrote:
So Toad, you are happy with any of VE or Foo getting lynched today then?
I'd really like your thoughts on VE I haven't looked into VE yet and like I said, I want to see how he changes tomorrow. But VE makes sense given the situation we're in assuming my read on Foo is right. I'd much rather lynch Foo before lynching into VE because of nothing but "because he'd make sense together with Foo" if Foo hasn't even flipped yet... I haven't looked into VE yet is NOT AN OPTION/EXCUSE/WHATEVER. If you want VE alive tomorrow, you gotta do something about it. If you don't care, you're fine not to read him. But not looking into one of two main lynch candidates because you want to read his posts tomorrow is smelly. Why do you care if he changes tomorrow if you haven't looked into his D1/N1/D2? How are you going to know if ANYTHING changes? What sort of change are you looking for if you have no basis/read to work from?
So austin, does that mean I am your primary target now that VE is gone? I'm honestly shocked at how you have me so high up on your scum list after our talk last night.
On January 26 2014 06:51 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 06:45 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, can someone tell me why Wave isn't town based on his activity so far?
Need I remind you he has the 2nd largest filter (after me)? And 10 pages of it happened this D2?
You guys think he can still be scum based on that?
Maybe he wants to prove a point as scum, that you should never surrender and keep going on? Or something?
Like I really want to know.
At the very least I want to know how he's a better lynch than Toad, or VE, etc
This goes...for everybody basically (Foo, Toad and austin) A lot of his filter is his GIANT posts. The size doesn't necessarily equate to content though. His giant giant posts are VE is town, Prome is scum. But his reasons for VE being town are kinda murky, and he spends boatloads and boatloads of time on all these little things that make Prome scum, despite Prome being pretty much off the table (it would seem for WoS as well? I have not seen him pushing Prome lately). So while there's a lot, a bunch of it is stuff that nobody really believes, and it picks up after we lynch a mafia. You can say he's responding to pressure by posting a bunch, either side can do that (I know not all mafia do, but I know I've gone post-crazy as mafia, and we don't have a good example of WoS's scumplay so it's unknown). Maybe it's knowing that town lynched mafia D1 and WoS/buddy need to kick things into gear and take control. Add in Hapa and others finding his D1 scummy. Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists. Also just minor nitpicky stuff. Putting some credence in the argument that sandroba was around and active.
You're 100% right that the giant posts don't necessarily equate to good content. The point wasn't for them to necessarily be solid airtight cases, they were to showcase thought process. I would have hoped I've gotten that across by now but apparently not because there are still a LOT of doubters. As for Prome I mentioned I wanted Foolishness and Toad lynched before Prome so there was no point in pushing him the rest of the day as he wasn't getting lynched. It's in my filter somewhere.
Does all of that stuff you've talked about really overshadow my effort and contributions for the past day enough to put me as the number 1 scum suspect going into day 3? There isn't a whole lot more I'm going to be able to do than what I've done already, so if no amount of effort is going to prove anything to you, then I would posit that you're not properly considering the most simple case scenario, which is that I am town, I am not concerned with what people read in my filter (hence the massive amount of posting) and I am putting forth the utmost effort to win this game. you are considering only the mafia options and what's unfortunate is you're not even the worst offender in that regard.
'Whatever his D2 is, his D1 still exists.'
My D2 was DAMN good, and you know that. Leave the bias at the door and help me lynch scum.
|
On January 26 2014 06:35 Foolishness wrote:Depends on what you mean by around. If your vote is on WoS I will 100% respond to any questions you ask. If your vote is on VE I'll probably respond as long as it's a good question. If your vote is on me then I probably won't care as I need to figure out whether it's mafia pushing on me or just paranoid townies so you guys have sufficient information for the next few days. What's up?
I hate this.
I HATE THIS.
Shows up DIRECTLY after I leave the thread to begin his weak attempts to get me lynched. This post is absolutely disgusting from a town perspective---Foolishness if you are indeed town somehow you should be ashamed. Blatant bullying and holding the thread hostage at a time when people need information, and need it FROM YOU under the guise of attempting to help the town is not right. I have never seen anything like this in any game I have ever played, and is an extremely dirty attempt to get what you want.
From a scum perspective, well, it makes sense I guess, doesn't it?
On January 26 2014 06:42 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 06:38 gonzaw wrote:On January 26 2014 06:35 Foolishness wrote:
And in case it isn't clear I still maintain that WoS is a better lynch than VE. VE I can see as being town, WoS not so much. You better come up with a 10 page essay about this if you want to convince me you really believe this. Because VE actually seems like he's trying to figure things out and is listening to arguments brought forth. WoS seems very headset on lynching a few people (he's pushing what could be a mafia agenda) and seems to be ignoring critical information brought forth about the lynch yesterday. But I could very well be wrong on both accounts. I may have actually seen stars after reading this i was so angry.
How DARE you accuse me of not actually attempting to figure things out and being so hypocritical as to accuse ME of being headset on lynching 'a few people' WHEN YOU HAVE NOT MOVED OFF OF ME ALL GAME.
The 'critical information' brought about the lynch? i'll say it again. I don't give a flying fuck about who's 'confirmed town' to other people. I'm going by my reads and my analysis, and right now from my perspective it seems like I'm doing a much better job of it than you. VE 90% scum huh?
Ugh getting through these Foolishness posts is going to be harder for me than I thought.
|
Hmm, I guess I can blame this mislynch on marv, Prome, austin and Wave for not being around deadline.
Yeah, that'll make me feel better about myself.
Shame on you marv/Prome/austin/Wave for not being around!
Pheww...
|
On January 26 2014 07:02 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 06:56 gonzaw wrote:
Then don't post stuff like that if you still haven't read the thread...
...still, it doesn't really make sense.
But whatever What doesn't make sense? I told you I will respond to questions. You just saying I don't make sense is not productive, not contributing information, not generating information, and not helping the town. Instead it is distracting the town, and pissing people off. I will be here for the next hour, if you want stuff from me, don't be sarcastic and don't be egotistical.
Hypocritical again. if anything pissed people off (maybe only me lol) it is what YOU posted, and by shutting people down YOU are the one preventing the thread from receiving needed information. Now obviously eventually you responded and you were writing things up, but it's the attitude I don't like. I don't see how something like this is supposed to help town morale any.
On January 26 2014 07:20 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:17 gonzaw wrote:On January 26 2014 07:14 kitaman27 wrote:
Well Foolishness is voting VE no matter what this cycle. He just isn't ready to admit it.
Me and gonzaw would be enough to decide the lynch either way, assuming that VE doesn't end the cycle off by himself. Hmm, yeah, we are both voting VE, so we can end the lynch on Foo if we want. You think there's something wrong with a VE+Foo scum team perhaps? I initially thought it'd be kind of impossible, since VE parked his vote on Foo on D1 and kept it there doing nothing, even with Foo gaining 6 votes. But well.....scum be scum perhaps? There was the interaction at the beginning of the game where VE and Hapa were going at it and Foolishness interjected saying "lol you're both town". You think that happens as scum to scum?
Maybe I didn't understand this at the time I read it, but if it means 'would scum give another scum a townread,' then I say why the hell not?!
Alright, a Foolishness post. Deep breaths.
On January 26 2014 07:40 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:04 gonzaw wrote:Okay. Can you give reasoning and proof behind these two statements? On January 26 2014 06:42 Foolishness wrote:
VE actually seems like he's trying to figure things out and is listening to arguments brought forth. WoS seems very headset on lynching a few people (he's pushing what could be a mafia agenda) and seems to be ignoring critical information brought forth about the lynch yesterday. 1) 2) I'm referring to his posts where he calls VE town (at least I think he calls him town cause I was never actually quite sure) and Promethelax mafia. Here is the post (he made about 5 at the time, I'm referring to all of them). Now keep in mind I'm still reading the thread so his opinions might have changed since then. But at the point there was good evidence to show VE is mafia (for example, lack of aggressive day 1 posting, not pushing a case, being strangely absent at the lynch time, and perhaps an unwarranted vote on me). Furthermore I made posts showing that people on the sandroba vote are very likely town, and everyone else should be under scrutiny. However WoS seemed to ignore this information I brought forth and his thinking is going in the opposite direction. I still haven't seen a reason why my post that proves Promethelax is town here has faulty logic. People, such as kitaman, seem to quote this post and say "why is Foolishness spending so much time proving that Promethelax is town instead of defending himself or doing a 10-page analysis?" That is because by confirming him as town I now have a better idea of who is mafia. Furthermore that argument is a Jub-Jub argument (you should all know what this means). Why was WoS so intent on saying Promethelax is town, especially after saying he was okay with him on day 1? This isn't the only post he made where he said that Promethelax is okay. Sure we all change our reads over the course of the game, but the progression of his change doesn't make sense. He thinks the case on Promethelax is bad on day 1 and votes me instead. There isn't anything wrong with that fact. However after sandroba gets lynch Promethelax looks really town (put simple, why would sandroba vote on Promethelax when the vote count for him and myself was tied?) Also I think Promethelax's night 1 posts had a town mindset (for instance this post here shows a town mindset of analyzing the votes after a lynch). No, WoS turn around on Promethelax is not congruent with a town mindset, and this is what I meant by he's ignoring key information about the lynch. That is a mafia agenda to push, he doesn't want to bring light to the things the day 1 votes say (such as the 5 people voting for sandroba should be confirmed town). Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:10 Toadesstern wrote:
I've voted WoS earlier on and should be on that list canceled out if that matters
Foolish, how about you explain how WoS + me being mafia makes any sense whatsoever when you've been saying that it's probably VE+WoS all the time Yes so as you've heard me say I think the town wins if the following four players die: VE, WoS, Kitaman, Toad (if you want to be really technical you can add me to that list but the day 1 events should show that's not likely. If you don't know what I'm referring to let me know and I'll explain some of my previous posts again). In terms of actual connections between I haven't done a thorough analysis to say "these two players could be a likely pair". One thing I did take notice of was that in day 1 Kitaman was pushing hard for sandroba (and voted for sandroba twice during the day). I think this says something because why would Kitaman be drawing so much attention to his obviously semi-inactive mafia teammate (especially on day 1, and especially on a player who is known for being inactive as mafia)? Because of this I don't find Kitaman likely to be mafia with sandroba. For the remaining three players I could potentially see any of them being together at this point. I haven't read Toad's filter closely, and everytime I read HolyFlare's I go back and forth on whether I think he's mafia or town. At the moment I think Toad is least likely mafia out of the three. I still think it could make sense for you (Toad) to be with either VE or WoS or sandroba but I don't have anything hard to give you in regards to that.
Yeah sorry didn't answer question 1 yet, wanted to get this out there before it's too late. Remind me later I will give you what I was thinking.
I'm curious as to how anything you said about me makes me mafia. I was calling VE town when other people said he wasn't. Clearly must ONLY be because I had prior knowledge of his alignment, right?
# of times Foolishness refuses to acknowledge something I did came from town: 1
As for the Prome thing, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I absolutely do not give a flying fuck about who you think should be confirmed town. I wanted to analyze things for myself, and I did. I found Prome to look scummy as hell, and I don't believe when he voted proves a damn thing. People are not always going to play the game the way it is expected for them to play, and if anything VE being town proved that; the trick is to realize when that happens and adjust accordingly. This is a special game with many special players and I refuse to eliminate any options completely no matter how crazy they sound. For example, eventually even gonzaw is going to have to be looked at for scum too, isn't he? As such, your voting analysis doesn't hold water for me, and that doesn't make me scum. (There are holes in your voting analysis as well that I believe have been pointed out to you in the past as well, but I'm not looking for them right now, and I'm pretty sure you ignored them anyway, but as I don't have proof to show right now that could just be blatantly false.)
On January 26 2014 07:50 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:46 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 07:40 Foolishness wrote:
[... snipped out for thread's sake...] only talking about the part that answered me. Than what about this: On January 25 2014 10:15 Foolishness wrote:On January 25 2014 10:09 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 25 2014 10:06 Foolishness wrote:On January 25 2014 09:57 WaveofShadow wrote:I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1. I see absolutely zero reason why this section of your post is relevant, and I've said it multiple times before. I don't ever see mafia members actively trying to push lynches off their scumbuddies. However if you actually do think this way, maybe it explains why you as scum were trying to save sandroba? As I said above, if you and kitaman want to run down the conspiracy theory hole even after there's a boatload of evidence proving my innocence and very little evidence proving yours (and VE's, and Toad's, and Kitaman's) then that's cool when you lose the game for the town. I win games. Silly question then in regards to your last post: Which two of the four of us are scum? And 'it doesn't matter' doesn't cut it because there is no way in hell the rest of the players in this game will simply follow your instructions and lynch those 4 without considering all options. That's not a silly question. I believe it is you [note: you=WoS] and Toad. Though I go back and forth on whether it's Toad or VE. Kitaman went after sandroba a lot on day 1. He called him out early, voted on him (twice) and pushed his case. I don't see him doing that to his own scumbuddy (moreso since sandroba was inactive so his case just kept looking better over time). I might add that I've been voting WoS ever since the start of D2, you seem to be pretty certain on WoS, you see me voting WoS as well, you're torn between VE and me and you think I'm the better candidate for the 2nd mafia seat than VE becaaaaause? I didn't even realized that happened my bad lol I gave my thoughts at the time. I already said I could be very wrong on VE. I'm confident about my read on WoS. If you have the same read and gave good opinions then I got no reason to think you're mafia. As I said I've not closely read your filter because I've been focusing on WoS and the day 1 votes. I did say that I think you can prove your innocence to us by the end of night 2, and from what I've seen I don't really doubt that at this point.
Phew, good thing you covered your bases VE here! Your posts are so littered with 'VE is probably scum but probably town but I'd be ok lynching him' I'm dizzy from trying to keep my head straight. Of course you always have to remember to hammer home that despite how unconfident you may be about the person-who-may-be-lynched-if-not-you, you are SUPER confident about the guy who has ZERO chance to be lynched today. Sneaky and useless at the same time. Awesome.
More coming.
|
On January 26 2014 12:14 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, I guess I can blame this mislynch on marv, Prome, austin and Wave for not being around deadline.
Yeah, that'll make me feel better about myself.
Shame on you marv/Prome/austin/Wave for not being around!
Pheww...
I do accept partial blame for this mislynch, and I said so---what is the point of this post?
|
On January 26 2014 12:29 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 12:14 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, I guess I can blame this mislynch on marv, Prome, austin and Wave for not being around deadline.
Yeah, that'll make me feel better about myself.
Shame on you marv/Prome/austin/Wave for not being around!
Pheww... I do accept partial blame for this mislynch, and I said so---what is the point of this post?
Not feeling like shit...?
|
On January 26 2014 12:32 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 12:29 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 26 2014 12:14 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, I guess I can blame this mislynch on marv, Prome, austin and Wave for not being around deadline.
Yeah, that'll make me feel better about myself.
Shame on you marv/Prome/austin/Wave for not being around!
Pheww... I do accept partial blame for this mislynch, and I said so---what is the point of this post? Not feeling like shit...?
Oh, it read like sarcasm. Sorry.
I think I'm almost done for now and as much as I like talking to you right now gonzaw, I feel like Prome and marv need to be here. What would you suggest we do when I'm done?
|
Hmm, how about talking about kita?
Does VE's mislynch tell you anything about a possible scum kita? What about his actions near the deadline?
You can do this after you are done of course
|
On January 26 2014 12:38 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, how about talking about kita?
Does VE's mislynch tell you anything about a possible scum kita? What about his actions near the deadline?
You can do this after you are done of course
I will.
But of course when I do I'm sure it will be seen as 'not wanting to figure the game out,' 'wishy-washy,' 'scummy,' or all of the above. Either that or completely ignored in favour of my cases that people didn't like.
So
goddamn
frustrating
to
read
this
thread
|
Like for all the talk about the simplest case scenario, isn't the simplest case that I'm fucking town and trying my hardest to win this game with almost the biggest filter possible? Obviously activity isn't the be-all-end-all but in my experience it's a massive fucking indicator. I know I can't use that as proof but ughhhhh
^^Oh and obviously all of the above is faked too.
|
How about this: If you manage to have a filter bigger than mine, then I'll consider you confirmed town and beat everybody that suspects you to death.
Deal?
Posting pictures of baby seals over and over not allowed.
|
Of course that was a joke.
|
On January 26 2014 07:51 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:49 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 07:46 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 07:40 Foolishness wrote:
[... snipped out for thread's sake...] only talking about the part that answered me. Than what about this: On January 25 2014 10:15 Foolishness wrote:On January 25 2014 10:09 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 25 2014 10:06 Foolishness wrote:On January 25 2014 09:57 WaveofShadow wrote:I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1. I see absolutely zero reason why this section of your post is relevant, and I've said it multiple times before. I don't ever see mafia members actively trying to push lynches off their scumbuddies. However if you actually do think this way, maybe it explains why you as scum were trying to save sandroba? As I said above, if you and kitaman want to run down the conspiracy theory hole even after there's a boatload of evidence proving my innocence and very little evidence proving yours (and VE's, and Toad's, and Kitaman's) then that's cool when you lose the game for the town. I win games. Silly question then in regards to your last post: Which two of the four of us are scum? And 'it doesn't matter' doesn't cut it because there is no way in hell the rest of the players in this game will simply follow your instructions and lynch those 4 without considering all options. That's not a silly question. I believe it is you [note: you=WoS] and Toad. Though I go back and forth on whether it's Toad or VE. Kitaman went after sandroba a lot on day 1. He called him out early, voted on him (twice) and pushed his case. I don't see him doing that to his own scumbuddy (moreso since sandroba was inactive so his case just kept looking better over time). I might add that I've been voting WoS ever since the start of D2, you seem to be pretty certain on WoS, you see me voting WoS as well, you're torn between VE and me and you think I'm the better candidate for the 2nd mafia seat than VE becaaaaause? Add to that, that when you answered that question and showed explanation you showed explanation on WoS + VE when VE is the guy that dropped out of your list and was replaced with me. Shouldn't you have at least some kind of explanation for why I got into that #2 position in favor of VE when you make such a bold statement as to say that team mafia is WoS and me bussing each other while hoping that whoever survives skates through until lylo? I've explained that my read on VE is just like, a gut feeling and not much more. I can see his actions from a townie mindset. I would not lynch you until both WoS and VE are dead (unless I was able to get a really good case on you of course).
On January 26 2014 07:52 gonzaw wrote:Hmmm.... Well.......maybe we should keep the lynch on VE. Toad, I don't get it: Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:39 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 07:32 gonzaw wrote:
Toad, what do you think of Foo's last posts?
Me and kita are kind of on the fence with this lynch, and have enough votes to swing the lynch to either VE or Foolishness. You think VE is town then? Will you try to convince us to lynch Foo, or will you do nothing until deadline waiting for your townread to get lynched? I don't have a townread on VE, if I had one I'd be kicking and screaming. I didn't come to a conclusion on him because the same happened to me like 4 days ago and I happened to be town in that game which is giving me shivers. I'm kind of busy right now and only f5'in inbetween. I've told you guys to get on Foo, I told you multiple times so far and it's been ignored. I don't have the time to make a case right now. I DO think Foolishness is the way better lynch though and I DO think that reading VE tomorrow will be easier than today. That should already be enough if you seem to have the same problems I have with the recent stuff he has posted. Again, there's cookies over here so please come over VE basically gave up a long time ago, and I doubt he'll "pick up" and start putting effort. Why would you think reading VE will get any easier? What if he keeps doing nothing and saying he's apathetic and doing the stuff he did this D2? Will you say "Let's keep him around till D4, SURELY it'll be easier to read him by then"?
So here's a gutread for you.
The juxtaposition of these two posts struck me because it makes me wonder if a scum Foolishness gave VE a weak townread on purpose, knowing he looked like ass himself in order to further fuel people onto the VE wagon. I mean...that's so WIFOM-y I can taste it coming out of my mouth but it's out there anyway.
On January 26 2014 07:57 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:54 gonzaw wrote:
kita, you here for a possible switch or something? You believe we should keep the lynch on VE now, or do some shenannies? If VE is unwilling to return to save himself, then I don't think we should bother trying to save him.
On January 26 2014 07:58 gonzaw wrote:
He had all D2 to "pull himself together". Remember how nobody pressured him or anything on D2? He basically said he's not mad or anything, just apathetic.
That's basically proof he won't "pull himself together".
ughhh....they're right and that's what sucks. I'm only curious as to which people voting for VE took serious advantage here considering how easy it was.
On January 26 2014 08:01 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 26 2014 07:57 kitaman27 wrote:On January 26 2014 07:54 gonzaw wrote:
kita, you here for a possible switch or something? You believe we should keep the lynch on VE now, or do some shenannies? If VE is unwilling to return to save himself, then I don't think we should bother trying to save him. Do you agree with this? In terms of what is good for the town yes. Even if I'm sure about WoS and not as confident about VE, a VE lynch is probably better for the town. Hence why I agreed with what Gonzaw said above even though my heart tells me that Toad is right in waiting another day to evaluate him.
On January 26 2014 07:43 Foolishness wrote:
Let me clarify again that I am perfectly happy with VE getting lynched. I just have a strong read on WoS and VE's frustration makes sense as a town frame of mind.
When you say things like, "VE didn't push a lynch day 1, he wasn't accomplishing anything with his posts, he has since been not contributing" I have nothing to say except, "yep, I agree". I am not deflecting off his lynch, I just think WoS is slightly better and will tell us more. If you guys are convinced that VE needs to die now and that WoS is town I will gladly ablige; I've even admitted I could be wrong on both accounts.
It's shit like this. How can you call me waffly and whatnot when you do shit like this? It's infuriating how much you strive to misrepresent everything I do, and apparently how many people are still eating this shit up. A VE lynch and a WoS lynch cannot be simultaneously 'better' for the town. You switched off of me because nobody wanted to lynch me, end of story. Call a fucking spade a spade.
On January 26 2014 08:09 gonzaw wrote:
Foo, right now these are your "scum suspects": Toad/kita/WOS.
Choose the scum between them based on this lynch. Now
This seems pretty silly to me considering he's been saying he's liked the stuff Toad was saying and 'lynch into these 4 people' and OH WoS IS SCUM I AM SUPER CONFIDENT.
On January 26 2014 08:09 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:00 gonzaw wrote:On January 26 2014 07:58 Foolishness wrote:On January 26 2014 07:53 kitaman27 wrote:
Didn't you want to lynch Holy before sandroba? Has Toad's play changed your mind on him or is it just that WoS's and VE's play is just much worse since then? Yes I did. I thought Holy was mafia based on his posts and his replacement posts. After the lynch I went back and reread them and thought "okay I can see him as town saying these things even if they are suspect". As I said earlier I go back and forth on his posts.. Why didn't you make any post about this? You didn't care to tell us why you changed your mind on your lead scum suspect? (Remember, your other "lead" scum suspect Prome was town to you after your analysis) Anyways, VE lynched I guess ....welp Because I was focused on the day 1 vote switched. There was a lot of good information in that, including the timing of the votes on how sandroba voted for Promethelax. That was higher priority since I knew that it could possibly nearly-confirm 5 people as town. Would you rather try to confirm 5 people as town or 1 person as mafia? I went through the votes and all the timing to make sure that that analysis is sound because it sets the town in motion for an accurate plan to win the game. Also because it was pointed out that VE and WoS were likely mafia because of the votes on me. When this was brought up with compelling arguments I focused on WoS because he was one of my initial suspects day 1. Since HolyFlare got replaced I thought that Toad could have a day to convince us of his alignment, and that seemed okay because town was focused on VE and WoS. And that was good for the town and the right thing for the town to do. If the town spent the entire day debating about HolyFlare and newcomer Toad it would not have been as productive. And that's still true even after VE now flipped green.
Hold the phone here.
First of all, 'compelling arguments' as to why I was on you? Like, I was afk? And porkchop analysis?
And not talking about Toad for most of the day isn't productive why, exactly? What is this bullshit hindsight post?
On January 26 2014 08:15 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:09 gonzaw wrote:
Foo, right now these are your "scum suspects": Toad/kita/WOS.
Choose the scum between them based on this lynch. Now can I answer this? Can I answer this? I got a pie-chart: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7sroMdW.png) I gave in to being a dick...
Bias says I really like this post...but I don't. Who's to say that just because I was 'right' in not voting VE today that I'm not scum. Why is it not possible for townies to have voted VE and not voted sandroba?
Here is also where gonzaw starts piping in and attacking Foolishness:
On January 26 2014 08:39 gonzaw wrote:
Foolishness, what do make it of you being the lead lynch candidate in 2 consecutive cycles (but somehow miraculously escaping the lynch both times)?
Does that give you any info about it? Are both pushes lead by scum or misled townies? Do you care about being such a hot topic? Why are you so calm at times where you almost get lynched? If you get lynched, from your POV town lynches a townie. Wouldn't you make your best damned effort in trying to get town to lynch scum? If they lynch you, town loses in the long run by default (you are town).
Last cycle, you got quite a bit of votes (4, you were leading at one point), and your runner up was VE. Yet you didn't really seem to care that much? Your lynch would be town (from your POV), and the VE lynch would be kind of random (specially since you said you didn't really know and you thought maybe the scum would be between WoS and Toad, etc).
Are you apathetic to the fact that town should lynch scum?
This is a massively important post. And everyone needs to consider this when lynch comes up tomorrow. Foolishness was essentially pushed by independent targets on both days and came up in different scenarios, but he came up both times. Surely there is a reason he is continually up for lynch, and it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to have been scum-led-on-town both days.
On January 26 2014 08:50 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, apparently that "super bad case" from WoS about VE being town was right......
...congratz Wave?
@Foo: You think scum Wave was buddying up to VE there then? Your read of him changes nothing based on that fact? He defended VE ever since D1 (way WAY back), and he kept consistent with it.
At points even he felt almost compelled to vote VE based on VE doing some shit, yet didn't.
Also, please explain, in really attentive detail, what makes you go from having Holy as sure scum on D1, to having Toad as "very very likely town" right now. I mean, from your POV you have 3 people to be scum, and you leave Toad out of it.
From what you've been posting I don't see anything to make me think you really think he's super duper town. So what is it? Care to point out some quotes, or something?
@Toad: What do you think of Foo apparently buddying up to you now? I mean, he called you the most likely scum after VE, yet now he backed out of that apparently and thinks kita is scum with Wave.
You "know" he's scum, so do you think he'd continuously buddy up to you to bus his teammate kita? He could have easily said "WoS/Toad" up there. That would be consistent with what he said last night, and from your POV it would be on 2 townies. That'd be good for a kita+Foo scumteam right?
Gonzaw, the problem is, (and I think you've realized this) Foolishness justifies everything in the way he wants to. I can't think of one time he has considered anything i have done to be town-motivated for any reason in his posting today, and that is not how you are supposed to play. This is actually something I need to remember myself in my long-ass tunnel of Foolishness and at some point today when I'm less rage-y I'm going to step back and consider what it means if Foolishness is town (I'm not so sure I like that idea, honestly considering what it might mean for our chances this game).
On January 26 2014 08:56 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:24 gonzaw wrote:On January 26 2014 08:09 Foolishness wrote:On January 26 2014 08:00 gonzaw wrote:On January 26 2014 07:58 Foolishness wrote:On January 26 2014 07:53 kitaman27 wrote:
Didn't you want to lynch Holy before sandroba? Has Toad's play changed your mind on him or is it just that WoS's and VE's play is just much worse since then? Yes I did. I thought Holy was mafia based on his posts and his replacement posts. After the lynch I went back and reread them and thought "okay I can see him as town saying these things even if they are suspect". As I said earlier I go back and forth on his posts.. Why didn't you make any post about this? You didn't care to tell us why you changed your mind on your lead scum suspect? (Remember, your other "lead" scum suspect Prome was town to you after your analysis) Anyways, VE lynched I guess ....welp Because I was focused on the day 1 vote switched. There was a lot of good information in that, including the timing of the votes on how sandroba voted for Promethelax. That was higher priority since I knew that it could possibly nearly-confirm 5 people as town. Would you rather try to confirm 5 people as town or 1 person as mafia? I went through the votes and all the timing to make sure that that analysis is sound because it sets the town in motion for an accurate plan to win the game. Also because it was pointed out that VE and WoS were likely mafia because of the votes on me. When this was brought up with compelling arguments I focused on WoS because he was one of my initial suspects day 1. Since HolyFlare got replaced I thought that Toad could have a day to convince us of his alignment, and that seemed okay because town was focused on VE and WoS. And that was good for the town and the right thing for the town to do. If the town spent the entire day debating about HolyFlare and newcomer Toad it would not have been as productive. And that's still true even after VE now flipped green. I'm not convinced. You make no mention of that. Only NOW you are explaining yourself, instead of explaining yourself when you should have (i.e when you actually had these thoughts). How did I not make myself clear? I explained my thoughts about the votes here, and here, and here. In that last post I explained why I was onto WoS again. In subsequent posts I explained why I was going in that direction and I clearly wasn't hiding any information. I didn't make mention of my read on HolyFlare? That's right I didn't, because why is it necessary when I'm bringing other information to the town? Crucial and new information about the votes and the timing of the votes. Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:24 gonzaw wrote:If the town spent the entire day debating about HolyFlare and newcomer Toad it would not have been as productive. On late-D2 there was plenty to discuss about Toad (who had posted a lot of stuff), and well, also Holy. You didn't either. On January 26 2014 08:14 Foolishness wrote:On January 26 2014 08:09 gonzaw wrote:
Foo, right now these are your "scum suspects": Toad/kita/WOS.
Choose the scum between them based on this lynch. Now WoS/Kita. Okay, why not Toad? Toad ended up D2 voting you. You think that makes him townie or something? Or that he has good basis for voting you? These are the people voting for you last cycle: VE, WoS, Toad, kita Who do you believe had the "best intentions" with their vote? Apparently Toad? You said to choose based on the lynch and I gave you the answers just based on the lynch. From what I've seen of the past 24 hours Toad's actions seem more congruent than Kitaman's. I will go make sure their posts are in line with this train of thought (keep in mind there are pages I didn't read and some I quickly skimmed through). I also liked what Toad said about VE, but that could just be because I was feeling the same way. And yes, so far I think Toad has the best intentions with his vote. Question for you now: this isn't the first time I've explained something and you said you were "not convinced". Furthermore, when I bring up facts and thoughts about the game thus far you seem to ask questions about other related things instead of bringing up my points directly and either refuting them or disagreeing with them. This tells me that you are actually in agreement with a lot of things that I'm saying and are just trying to look for things about me that may or may not be there. Are you so concerned about the slim chance of me being mafia that you are willing to sacrifice the good of the town just to make sure?
This is an interesting post of Foolishness's.You say Toad's actions seem more congruent, so once again here I believe you are giving your reads where they're convenient and not considering all of the options. For example, Toad made a very obvious voteswitch off of me when it became clear I wasn't going to be lynched---you never even consider that and simply assume that he's town with the best of intentions. What are those best intentions that Toad actually has, and how are they different from mine? I'm REALLY curious about this.
On January 26 2014 10:01 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:50 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, apparently that "super bad case" from WoS about VE being town was right......
...congratz Wave?
@Foo: You think scum Wave was buddying up to VE there then? Your read of him changes nothing based on that fact? He defended VE ever since D1 (way WAY back), and he kept consistent with it.
At points even he felt almost compelled to vote VE based on VE doing some shit, yet didn't.
Also, please explain, in really attentive detail, what makes you go from having Holy as sure scum on D1, to having Toad as "very very likely town" right now. I mean, from your POV you have 3 people to be scum, and you leave Toad out of it.
From what you've been posting I don't see anything to make me think you really think he's super duper town. So what is it? Care to point out some quotes, or something?
It's certainly possible scum Wave is buddying up to VE. Why? Because he knows that the remaining 2 mafia (himself and whoever) is in the group of four that I proposed. What is his options as mafia after I come in and demonstrate it's very unlikely town is on the sandroba vote? First off, he (or his buddy or both) have to run interference on me to make sure I don't organize the town and figure them out. That means pressuring me, pissing me off so I can't analyze accurately, and making sure my time is wasted responding to thread questions about my actions instead of reading filters and looking at the game. And speaking of that, if you ask where my ten page analysis post that you think indicates I'm town is (cause somehow in your mind this is the only way you are able to read me...) it's just as much your fault as it is mine? Why? Because you are demanding answers of me because of paranoia and some of my actions might not make sense to you. I am choosing to spend what time I have responding to you because I believe it is more important to convince the town that I am town instead of just ignoring you guys. I say this because I firmly believe that the 5 people who voted for sandroba are town (and I also think time will confirm this suspicion as well). And I believe that once I am in the clear the path to victory is simple. Furthermore, you are asking me a lot of questions and at some point you need to make up your mind. Because this cannot and will not continue. We will be running in circles with these questions instead of doing something productive, sooner or later we will be distracting the town. Eventually we're both going to get frustrated at each other (or someone else will get frustrated) and we will start yelling. And this is exactly what the mafia want. They want me getting pissed off at you so I get mislynched, and they want you paranoid at everyone because that's what they need in order to win at this point. You and I and everyone else all know this. I'm not going to let the mafia control my thoughts and you should do the same. ----- That was a long tangent. But second, they need 3 mislynches in order to win the game, which means they need to establish themselves as town and find someway to gain town credibility while ensuring that the towns in the group of 4 (or 5 if you include me) get lynched. Of course the mafia can call someone else in the group town, and of course they will call others in the group mafia. They need to push whoever is the easiest lynches and make the town paranoid of me so I get mislynched as well. On the off chance there is a mafia voting for sandroba they need to keep up activity over the remaining days otherwise we will get suspicious of them. There's no reason why a mafia WoS wouldn't call VE town, and there's also no reason why a mafia WoS wouldn't call VE mafia. They can play it either way and at this point they could probably even bus each other. So no, I don't read into the fact that WoS has been defending VE. Does it make WoS slightly more town? Sure. But the fact that he defended him means nothing, it's how he defended him. I read his initial case on why VE is town and I felt it was misleading and had an agenda behind it.
These posts by HolyFlare are what irked me + Show Spoiler +On January 21 2014 23:20 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 23:14 gonzaw wrote:
No marvy im talking about that other game you talked about in the Mafia Awards thread i think (was it Msrio mafia or aomwthing?)
Well holy maybe you could chill down and wait till i get home and finally be able to read the thread. This little chat im having now is mostly to show my process of thougth while i read the thread and have little info and whilr i gain more info. Its a good way to establish one's towniness Well I'm sorry if it comes across as antagonism. I just find it odd that your contribution in your work time would be to mention someone that has little to no posts that are suspicious as hell rather than read the rest of the thread and portray your fresh ideas when you are home. I will take a step back and let you do your thing though. I have yet to play with everyone here so will learn your meta eventually. On January 22 2014 06:13 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 06:00 Hapahauli wrote:Realistically though, what is your opinion of Gonzaw's style? I haven't played with him before and I'm not in right now so can't check up on it.
Why is he spending so much time on foolishness? This is such a strange question. 1) Why are you talking about him spending so much time on foolishness, when you haven't addressed any of his arguments? Especially... you know... the largest post in the thread currently? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=18#3592) What is relevant about gonzaw's style so far? He's posted the most content in the thread and has done the most scumhunting of anyone. I don't know how you could raise any questions about his style given what he's posted. 3) Your attitude on Foolishness makes no goddamn sense. In this post, you're deflecting attention from him and puzzled on how gonzaw could spend time on him. Why is he spending so much time on foolishness? ...yet in your posts addressed to me, you repeatedly call foolishness sketchy, scummy, and are generally suspicious of him and his sparse posting. What gives? I do not want to participate in a discussion based on a person with 4 posts, it is futile. Foolishness has posted nothing and gonzaw is spending his entire time focusing on that person. I want to know what Gonzaw is like in other games, does he tunnel like that, does he declare he is not reading the thread till he gets home only to still spend his time on futile research? These are all questions I would like to know the answers to based on people's previous games with him. Just because he has put effort in and has posted does not make him towny. I asked that question specifically to kita because I think me and him are on the same wavelength (he asked gonzaw how long it took him to do the foolishness meta post - what I assumed to be seeing how he was allocating time) and I would like him to elaborate on his thoughts. I have no attitude towards foolishness other than my dislike for his unexplained reads. It's not scummy, it's not towny, I want to know his reasonings before I take my read further. Could he be scum? Yes. Could he be town? Yes. I do not know and cannot know until he posts, so of course my attitude to him would be a net null read. Because I felt like he was dodging questions and not contributing to the conversation. For some questions his response was just, "got nothing cause I don't know this guy" and I did not feel like he cared about this game. Reading through Toad's filter it actually seems like he's making a genuine effort to figure out the game. I really like some of his posts here: + Show Spoiler +On January 25 2014 04:24 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 04:12 gonzaw wrote:
Toad, what do you think about Foolishness' attitude towards you and your predecessor?
I.e instantly finding Holy scummy (because of my case), but never doing anything else about it (other than fleetingly mention him a few times), to him being his 2nd scum read after Prome, to him not mentioning him nor you AT ALL after he had a 100% change of heart on Prome? No idea, I haven't read a single post from Holyflare so no idea if his accusations on my predecessor as you coined it so nicely make sense, btw also something WoS mentioned about me how I kept the reads from Holy... I didn't even know that lol I did ignore it in general as I was seeing the same thing from foolishness about Sandro and it was so extreme that I just thought it has to be an exaggeration until austin pointed out that is indeed weird. He has been on Sandro for a while, called him mafia and suddendly started calling the lynch bad and wasn't willing to vote him. Haven't put too much thought into it. I had to catch up, I had to reread a bunch and as stupid as this situation may be I just can't catch up, reread and at the same time put the same amount of time into reading yet other filters as you guys are doing right now. I have to make this work somehow and I start out with what's #1 on my priority list. Just saying because you still don't seem to understand the situation I'm in. Yes a bunch of stuff I'm going to say will be less in detail than stuff you do and I don't have the time to do proper research like you guys. That's to be expected and there's nothing I can do about that. Yes I'm slightly angry about the fact that you've basicly called me out about not reading carefully enough... Yeah I'm explaining it from the Sandro <-> Foolish perspective but it seems to be the same thing you're getting at? Because like I said I haven't read Holy's posts. On January 25 2014 04:36 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 04:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, and he was last on the wagon - whether it was a minute or 10 minutes, he voted last on the wagon and was NOT the hammer vote on sandroba. the thing is, if foolishness is mafia that explains why he didn't vote Sandro despite being a very shady explanation. If Sandro and Foolish are mafia together Foolish has nothing to lose, it's either him or Sandro to get lynched, might as well just do nothing and hope that in the confusion of voteswitches Prome (assuming he's town) gets into a more favoreable position to be lynched. If Prom however is mafia as well, so saying it's Sand - Foolish - Prom, that unwillingness from Foolish to vote Sand makes no sense whatsoever. He has nothing to get out of not voting Sand except for a 1-1 trade with Sand which doesn't change a thing for him. Voting Sand however gives him the chance to get some towncred out of it and he WAS around, he could have certaintly voted Sand. It just doesn't make sense if Prom and Foolish are both mafia. Why? Because it shows a townie mindset as he is trying to make connections between possible suspects and figure out what's going on. He's eliminating possibilities to determine who is likely town based on sandroba connections. I'm not really sure why he went against that and started calling me mafia. Well, I see his reasons for doing so but to go against his earlier reasoning does seem a bit out of place considering it was at a time when the thread was giving me a bunch of heat. Toad, do you not believe in any of those posts you wrote before?
Also, did I say that HolyFlare was my top scumread? During day 1 WoS was my top town read until he and others convinced me that I was wrong, and then Promethelax was my top read (hence the case on him and voting him). After the flip and I analyzed the votes WoS was my top read (and still is). Ugh I have no desire to go through this one---besides gomzaw sums it up nicely later on:
On January 26 2014 10:33 gonzaw wrote:Foo, if I'm being honest, I get the feeling it's you trying to muddle up the waters and stuff. I don't see you being direct about anything. At one point you call WoS scum, then you call Toad+WoS possible scum team, then you call VE+WoS possible scumteam. Then you back off and just call WoS scum, then now you, out of nowhere, call WoS+kita scum. You think Holy is sure scum at first, then you still want him dead by the time sandro dies, then you don't mention him at all, then now you mention you thought at some point he might be town but never bothered to tell us that. You make walls of text with apparent justifications, and going on about the "sandro vote means I'm town", which is immediately followed by "actually it's possible I am scum and Prome town", which you then kind of confuse us by still calling you apparent town from the sandro vote. Dunno, I don't remember anything "clear" from you Foo, you keep confusing me over and over. Kind of like this: Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 10:01 Foolishness wrote:
Furthermore, you are asking me a lot of questions and at some point you need to make up your mind. Because this cannot and will not continue. We will be running in circles with these questions instead of doing something productive, sooner or later we will be distracting the town. Eventually we're both going to get frustrated at each other (or someone else will get frustrated) and we will start yelling. And this is exactly what the mafia want. They want me getting pissed off at you so I get mislynched, and they want you paranoid at everyone because that's what they need in order to win at this point. You and I and everyone else all know this. I'm not going to let the mafia control my thoughts and you should do the same.
And when exactly was I your 'top' townread on D1, btw?
What I think we may need the most on N2/D3 is an actual conversation between me and Foolishness.
No essay posts from either of us, I demand a confrontation.
Worst man wins the noose. 10 paces at dawn.
What say you?
You are allowed to say no, I won't be all 'he's avoiding me that's so scummy,' but I refuse to accept the answer that it's because I am trying to fuck with the thread. D3 will be about you whether you like it or not, so best embrace it.
|
Anyways, is it bad that I'm kind of scared of Prome being scum now? At least right now I see WoS more townie than him to be honest.
Hmmm, I'll have to reread him.
It'd be funny if the scum team DOES end up being Foo+Prome and we bitched at VE and WoS for no reason lol.
|
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I'm leaving this thread for the next 24 hours or so. I can't think straight because all my posts are being misconstrued and misused. I also can't make my trademark analysis because you guys keep distracting me and are all focused on the wrong things. I don't know how trustworthy my reads are because I have to dedicate 90% of my time to defending myself, instead of typical games where people ignore me and I spend 90% of the time constructing a flawless analysis. I don't have the confidence to push my reads right now because I feel they would just be spammed away, misconstrued or flat out ignored.
|
On January 26 2014 12:50 gonzaw wrote:
How about this: If you manage to have a filter bigger than mine, then I'll consider you confirmed town and beat everybody that suspects you to death.
Deal?
Posting pictures of baby seals over and over not allowed.
Top be completely honest I hate having to resort to spamming...I promised myself I wouldn't do it after my massive filter in Thug Life but here we are. It seems a lot of the time it's the only way to prevent myself from getting mislynched---oh well at least it's effective.
Oh before I forget, I do want to mention a little gutread-y feely thing on Foolishness. Not to be taken as sole evidence because obviously it's not, but I should have mentioned this way earlier.
Much like my read on VE, I notice odd patterns in play across games and I develop tells, as I'm sure many people do.
One such tell is one that has worked for me quite a few times, and his been right more often than not.
This tell:
When some forum vet I don't have a great deal of experience playing with tries to shoehorn me based on my 'meta,' they are scum.
It was true of BH in Carnival Cruise, of Palmar in Thug life, and Foolishness's case as well. I believe there are more examples throughout my games as well but I can't think of good examples atm.
My meta should be damn near impossible to read for people who don't know me, because I have only one scumgame to my name. Bad meta cases like Foolishness's (I swear a lot, lol) coming from someone of his experience should be an immediate red flag because they would KNOW BETTER than to say stuff like that, and I should have remembered to post about it earlier than this.
It's not an amazing reason, and is only a tell that may or may not work 100% of the time, but I think the time has come for me to embrace stuff like this as part of my play rather than shy away from it, not only because I haven't been truly successful changing my playstyle thus far, but because it actually helps my normally terrible D1 reads become more accurate much of the time.
|
On January 26 2014 13:12 Foolishness wrote:
I'm leaving this thread for the next 24 hours or so. I can't think straight because all my posts are being misconstrued and misused. I also can't make my trademark analysis because you guys keep distracting me and are all focused on the wrong things. I don't know how trustworthy my reads are because I have to dedicate 90% of my time to defending myself, instead of typical games where people ignore me and I spend 90% of the time constructing a flawless analysis. I don't have the confidence to push my reads right now because I feel they would just be spammed away, misconstrued or flat out ignored.
How about this?
If you talk with me now, I will leave you alone for 24h so you can do what you want.
|
I think I can represent what I think Foo is doing with me with this VE quote:
On January 23 2014 06:48 VisceraEyes wrote:I'm willing to vote him - I'm just hesitant. And Foolish looks like he's trying to manipulate me and it hurts my soul. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
