EPTYet Another Normal Mini Mafia - Page 82
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Okay, I'm back and rereading. Trying to find scum between Stutters and Bugs. For the moment, since we are in mylo, ## Vote No-Lynch | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On December 28 2012 00:07 Stutters695 wrote: or: "Vivax is scum but I'd lynch someone else."Ebwop: ##unvote ##Vote: vivax I'm still open to other options, but this latest post screams scum to me. Stutters=scum. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Sci, look at stutters again. Look at awkward use of '@' day one. Look at town mood as his reads 'change' he follows the flow of town not a logical thought process. Look at his insistence that Vivax is the scummiest player and his willingness to vote elsewhere. See what you find. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Can scum hold their shot? If yes: What happens if we no-lynch, then scum hold their shot, then we no-lynch again? Is anyone forced to do something? I agree that no-lynching is best in this scenario, a 2v1 is marginally better than 3v1. ##vote no-lynch | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I'm not sure what typical protocol is, but I think I would force scum to shoot before I would force town to lynch.. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Actually, I think I'm going to make that policy in my games now. | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
On January 01 2013 20:12 Promethelax wrote: I had other stuff written up but I don't think I need it to make a good case so I present to you a brief case: or: "Vivax is scum but I'd lynch someone else." Stutters=scum. Open to other options as in I can be convinced that it wasn't an optimal play (like lynching the other guy I thought would flip scum to keep the lylo timing on our side) Do you honestly think that being open to agruements on people I haven't been tunneling makes me scum? That just seems like a good town move to me. You say I had a willingness to vote elsewhere like I wasn't pushing vivax since d2. Both dibbers and eywa were obvious plays, and short of an incredibly convincing case I wasnt deviating. I'm assuming the awkward @ stuff is in reference to those questions I asked and have since explained in detail a couple of times. I also explained the sheeping early due to my limited playtime leading up to Christmas/the holiday itself. Do you not believe my explanations? If you think I'm the last scum why only bring this up now that we're in mylo/lylo instead of sometimebetween the vivax lynch and yamato shooting? You ignored yamatos case against you until he died and said it was terrible but you'd elaborate post game. Since he can't ask anymore I'll follow up. What makes it terrible? Before I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in case it was something to do with a plan to catch the last scum but now that I've seen your scum read is on me, this makes twice in 24hrs you've avoided saying anything. First ignoring his case cause it was terrible and now instead of posting a "good" case you give a rehash of vivax's points. If you think I'm the last scum shouldn't you try to hit me with an open and shut case to make sure I'm the one who gets lynched? | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
##vote: No Lynch | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
You missed the fact that my case against you is airtight. It is the open and shut case you think I need to provide. I came in this morning drunk and high and didn't bother to write out every word to incriminate you because you have done so well yourself. Its okay though, rolling scum for the first time is hard. I get it. The awkward '@' stuff is not about those questions. It is about the fact that you used @ to create interaction between yourself and Wiggles and Vivax in a way that rings false and does not appear anywhere else in your filter. You have forced interaction with both flipped scum players and that kind of false interaction does not appear anywhere else in your filter. You are also doing a great job in the post above mine of calling me scum without calling me scum. You can hang for it scum. GG though, you did a good job using your shitty town meta to protect yourself. But you slipped hard in your interaction with Wiggles and Vivax. Pretty good for a first timer. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
I'm going to use this post to talk a lot about stutters. Overall, I'm leaning town on him. I think you make two valid points about Stutters which I could see as evidence that he is scum. The use of @ on D1 I agree that it's alarming that he focused his second post about Vivax and Wiggles, and that he does not use his "@" syntax anywhere else in his whole filter. That whole post is awkward. He is asking questions that don't need to be asked and two of which were already asked. The awkwardness could be explained by the fact that he was trying to create interaction with scumbuddies. Calling you scum without calling you scum Since Vivax has flipped, Stutters has been extremely noncommittal. He basically said that he thinks any of the three of us could be scum, and that he would like you to write a case to convince him of who the scum is. This is a bit worrying because if he is town he should be actively trying to find the last scum himself. It's more typical of scum play to wait for someone else to make a case and then to hop on the bandwaggon. However, I am not convinced that Stutters is likely to be scum based on the two points above. interaction with Vivax on D1 Stutters has never been scum before this game. If he is in fact scum, I'd expect him to try to hide in the shadows and not do anything fancy. Creating interaction with not one but both of his scumbuddies in his only second post of the game seems like too much of a 'big play' for a new scum like Stutters to attempt. Now that Vivax and Wiggles have flipped, it looks eerily suspicious. I don't think scum Stutters would want that in his filter. Also, subsequent to that post, Vivax made a big deal about Stutters and the two went back and forth for several posts, with Vivax making accusations. I think it's a bit unlikely that Vivax would draw his newbie scum partner out into the spotlight so early. reaction to Morbidius 'cop claim' I don't know if I've mentioned this already, but this post felt very townie to me: + Show Spoiler + On December 23 2012 01:01 Stutters695 wrote: I wasn't sure whether if rather lynch vivax or morb today but this early posting has sealed it. . First he says he's "very suspicious" of and then worried about iamp. Then out of nowhere he's just definitely town? I don't buy it, especially since he didn't say iamp was town until after he was challenged to make a case. ##Vote: Morbidius I would like to know what made you decide iamp was town and why are you now "worried" about wbg. It's hard to explain why this feels townie to me. It's mostly just a gut thing. His response feels honest and spontaneous. Not sneaky or well thought-out. It does not look like he has a hidden agenda. He essentially said 'wtf. this is absurd. you must be lying. now I think you are scum'. Just feels townie to me. votes Vivax when he certainly didn't have to I disagree with your analysis of his vote on Vivax: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2012 00:07 Stutters695 wrote: Ebwop: ##unvote ##Vote: vivax I'm still open to other options, but this latest post screams scum to me. This was on D3, when for the majority of the day, Eywa was IMO the primary suspect. I'm not sure what the votecount was at the time Stutters made this post, but I don't think it was more than one or two votes on Vivax. The way you portrayed this post is 'Vivax is scum but I'd be happy to lynch someone else'. I think a more accurate summary is 'I'd be alright with lynching someone else if you guys want, but I think lynching vivax is a really good idea. Hopefully someone will agree with me.' As Stutters subsequently explained, he has not had enough thread influence to get his scumreads lynched. I'd count this as a point in his favor for suggesting that we lynch Vivax at all, rather than a point against him for being willing to vote other people. agrees that bugs is near confirmed + Show Spoiler + On January 01 2013 05:15 Stutters695 wrote: I'd say I was one of the first people to really push for vivax to be lynched (d2). Regarding wiggles and this association business with prom I disagree with your analysis of zell/wiggles interaction. It's a null tell to me because d1 zell had 3 posts and got replaced. He's an easy target for major if he's town and if he's scum and got replaced it should be obvious that pressuring/lynching a useless scum could be a good way to get town-cred. Without sacrificing long term chances. Agreed about feeling bugs is near confirmed. Unless you think he is the rb and didn't use his power night 1 which would really be a stretch given that mafia would believe this was a c9 setup and would know that town had a mix of 5-7 letters worth of blues. Iirc after iamps flip I checked his filter and there was something that he implied a n1 jail on Palmar(not that it wasn't an obvious play anyway). Not sure how a rb on vivax is a point in favour of me being town either. This is actually a fairly significant point IMO. I 100% disagree with the logic that bugs is near confirmed because he claimed a roleblock on D2. I have explained this already. What is very significant though, is that Stutters is saying that he would not be content with a lynch on bugs. This seems like a very unlikely move from scum Stutters. I think this should be obvious to you. If Stutters were scum, I'd expect him to attack bugs or at least wait for myself or Prom to accuse bugs and then hop on the bandwaggon. That seems like it would be his best chance of winning. So overall, I am still leaning town on Stutters. @bugs, @Prom I'd like to know which of my points you agree/disagree with, and how likely you feel that Stutters is to be scum. @Prom I'm confused by the certainty of your read on Stutters. You describe your case as airtight. First of all, I disagree that it is that good. But secondly, what changed recently that makes you so damn sure about stutters? Just yesterday you seemed to think there was a good possibility that bugs was scum and even a distinct possibility that I am scum. You also said this: + Show Spoiler + On December 30 2012 16:34 Promethelax wrote: Town: Stutters, Stut has only been really here to push the lynch between him and Vivax. If Viv is town that is probably a scum push. Really. If Viv flips town both Bugs and Stutters are scum In my eyes, I happen to be way more interested in hearing bugs talk for a cycle longer than stutters if we have to keep one of them around. Scum: Bugs, wbg has been all over Stutters but when it became clear that Viv was the lynch for today changed his read on the kid. Though honestly it probably doesn't matter since we'll need to lynch into one or the other and, if we're wrong, lynch into the other. Sorry about this, posting from a tablet, still figuring it out. which indicated that you'd like to lynch bugs next if stutters flipped scum. I'd like to know how you changed your mind from 'bugs more likely to be scum if vivax flips scum' to 'stutters is scum 100%'. Were you still drunk or something? Are you really that confident that Stutters is scum? @stutters Have you been trying to figure out who the last scum is? Who do you think is scum and why? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On December 30 2012 07:24 wherebugsgo wrote: actually upon reading Vivax's past games, he is most definitely playing differently this game than before. I actually like him now as a lynch precisely for that reason. In the context of this game alone he just didn't seem like scum to me. My bad if I have been wrong this entire time. @bugs I find it suspicious how you defended Vivax all game until he looked certain to be lynched, and then you suddenly changed your mind on him. I know for a fact that you played in Hero Mini with Vivax and that you hosted a game (I Can't Believe it's not themed) that Vivax played in. So you should already have been somewhat familiar with his meta. Please go into more detail about what you found in his meta, that you did not already know, that made you do a complete 180 on him. You never specified. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
I'm not eager to rush to a decision because if we're wrong we lose. You'll notice I'm never particularly committal until I'm 100% sold on a scum. Just how I've always played. The thing about wanting him to make a case was because he said he was trying to survive as opposed to find the scum. I think the other questions I've asked speak for themselves on my current view. Its suspicious as fuck to me he avoided Yamato's case until Yamato died. He didn't strongly push for my lynch until Yamato (most vocal supporter of me) was dead. I need to go through his previous games and compare the meta but it feels less like he truly believes I'm scum and that lynching me is more opportunistic. Prom I'll ask you the same thing I asked Vivax when he claimed to have typed stuff then not posted. Why wouldn't you post it? If you believe I'm scum why wouldn't you post everything related to me that you find convincing? It's pretty obvious your case isn't airtight (I used the @ in one of the newbie minis I played, I think the first or second). | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Probably sleeping a lot more than usual :p I'll try to respond to anything when I can, but I can't make any guarantees about that. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On January 03 2013 03:41 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm going to be afk for at least the next 24 hours, I have surgery later today (in like 2 hours) and so I'm going to be a bit out of it for a while. Probably sleeping a lot more than usual :p I'll try to respond to anything when I can, but I can't make any guarantees about that. Sorry to hear that. Hope your surgery goes alright | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
Once you're back I'm curious what you think of proms attack on me. Does it feel opportunistic to you or is my rebuttal overly paranoid? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.dogforums.com/attachments/off-topic/12242d1262308244-been-sitting-fireplace-copy-bonita-fireplace.jpg) Don't forget to open the floo Night 5 Everyone was still full from all of the holiday meals, so nothing was happening! No one was lynched! Sorry for the late day post. I totally didn't realize what time it was. If no one objects, the night will still end at 6pm CST tomorrow, rather than running the full 24 hours. Also, if people want to shorten the last day, please send me a PM | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
So sci, you bring up some good points about a town Stutters. You also being up some really weak points. I think Stutters has enough of an established meta that he would feel compelled to interact with his scumbuddies if he thought he saw something weird in thier filters and, if he is like Mattchew, he would see all the weirdness there. So his unnecessary interaction and questioning of them does not feel in any way like a town tell. How did you find it to be both a compelling point for him to be scum and a point in his favour as town. The reason I originally said that Bugs would be more likely to be scum if Vivax flipped scum is that I had not yet reread their filters and the act of Vivax flipping scum and Bugs' points about him this last day are things which point towards scum Bugs. I still think Stutters flase interaction is scummier than Bugs' flipflop. Stutters, the reason I had not posted the rest of what I had written up is because I am attempting to curtail the unnecessary verbosity of my cases. In ChronoTrigger I made a 43 page case on a guy who managed to not reply to any of the strong points in the case because there were so many ancillary pieces of case he could wrap himself in. It was my goal with my first post on you to avoid all that and present simple and easy to digest evidence of your scumminess. My second post, directed at sci with the three points about you (use of @, the way your reads reflect town opinion and your insistence that Vivax is scummy and that you would vote elsewhere) was the more complete case which had my main points which were not obscured by my love of language and instead very straight forward. You need to recognize that your use of @ is in fact incredibly scummy, you only interact with scum through the @ and you use it to ask unnecessary questions which feel forced. So Sci, you clearly disagree with me on Stutters being the last scum. So who do you think is the last of the reds? Me or Bugs? Make a case and prove your point. | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
However since you brought up my meta, what part of it makes you feel like I would find it necessary to interact with my partners if I was scum? Curious how you're drawing that conclusion. I'd also encourage you to re-read my previous games as I pretty much sheep and parrot other people d1 and into d2. I'm borderline useless early game so I try to follow who I see as strong town with enough questioning to get by without being lynched until filters are fuller and I have enough info to really nail a scum with This game you can see that with my scum read on Vivax starting n1. The only reason morb got my vote over him was how scummy morbs switch on iamp felt before I saw he was cop. Do you think that entire interaction with vivax since n1 was forced? | ||
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