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On August 25 2010 06:17 Mogwai wrote:
the 30 armor pen is no joke
opening stod and starks really makes you lack the physical strength imo. unless you plan on bursting the guy to death with stacked deck + that magical thingy.
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I like SotD on Fate if I'm not going for a pure AP build. It syncs with his E for extra burst / overall damage while giving you the ability to insanely burst someone when going for an AD build. Plus the AS from it isn't awful for the price either.
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On August 25 2010 05:57 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 05:54 redtooth wrote:On August 25 2010 05:52 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 25 2010 03:43 r33k wrote:On August 25 2010 02:46 Mogwai wrote:
I don't really have a fancy defense for sheen on Sion, but the gist of it is that between your nukes and ult, you can get 2-3 procs of it in a typical "Sion is here and you are dead" fight. AP Sion is all about the 3-4 second burst and Sheen is a really cost effective way to jack that up + it builds into lichbane later which really lets you explode people. Essentially, the way AP sion plays only lets him get 2-3 auto-attacks in anyway, and Sheen is the best way to jack up the damage on those 2-3 attacks.
Now, that being said, I think AP Sion just isn't the way you should build him. At least not in the metagame. AP Sion is a monster insta-gibber, but you basically don't have any good ways to spec for real survivability through AP investments and if you're fighting a bunch of tanks, you need sustained damage output, not this petty burst crap. I'll let other good players say I'm a tard for this, but I think Sion should typically be Sheen -> mercs -> Survivability Item -> Zeal -> Survivability Item -> Triforce -> Tank Spam + maybe LW/Atma's. Doing this lets you have his strong early game (playing much the way straight AP Sion would play it) and then fluidly transition into a reasonably strong late game. This is assuming they have something in the way of squishies though. No squishies, go straight tanking + LW/Atma's, fuck the sheen opening and triforce late game. As far as abilities are concerned I've never seen the point in leveling his stun past 1 unless you're all in on AP, so I'd do stun -> enrage -> shield -> shield -> shield -> ult and then prioritize like this: ult > Shield > Enrage > Stun.
Sorta an aside: I still can't figure out why everyone likes to dump on Triforce. Yes, the item's all over the place, but if you want everything it's giving, it's very efficient at it. No one argues that Sheen, Phage or Zeal is terrible (well, I guess some argue about Sheen, but they're wrong, item's still fine), and then for 300 more you get:
2 AD
5 AP
5% Attack Speed
2% Crit Chance
4% Movespeed
50 Mana
75 Health
Phage Proc Slow increased from 30% to 35%
Sheen Proc Damage increased from 80% to 130%, also if the tooltips are correct, Triforces proc does not have the 3 second CD that Sheen's has.
zzzzz, w/e... on a character like Sion, I still think it's a really balanced 1-stop-shop for all your offensive needs, both burst and sustained. Then again I think Malady's fine on TF so don't mind me, herpdederp.
EDIT: and oh yea, I waltz on out of Galio's Explosion radius with Merc Treads like it's my job, lol. I'm not a fan of triforce on anyone but poppy and blitz Just gonna interject here and say that for Poppy, Lich Bane + Deathfire is better at getting kills than Triforce + anything else. And cheaper too. Add in a blue pot and it's an incredibly sick combo that will get kills all the way into late game. No more offense is needed... additional gold can get wards, GA (very nice synergy with her passive) and aura items. i've seen knaan and rambo two-shot tanks with that combo haha. Nony my trade offer is still up  . my account for lessons on being awesome? there may or may not be RIOT points incoming for WCG and alienware stuff. uninstalled LoL sorry haha. i just have fun watching streams now (mostly hotshot) for a break from SC2.
You can't quit Nony, I want to have the pleasure of getting facerolled by you when you become imba at LoL just like SC2 =(.
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Idk who it was that posted his anivia skin on her, but congratz! it looks like it made it all the way ti RIOT :D
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On August 25 2010 07:03 LoCicero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 05:57 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 25 2010 05:54 redtooth wrote:On August 25 2010 05:52 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 25 2010 03:43 r33k wrote:On August 25 2010 02:46 Mogwai wrote:
I don't really have a fancy defense for sheen on Sion, but the gist of it is that between your nukes and ult, you can get 2-3 procs of it in a typical "Sion is here and you are dead" fight. AP Sion is all about the 3-4 second burst and Sheen is a really cost effective way to jack that up + it builds into lichbane later which really lets you explode people. Essentially, the way AP sion plays only lets him get 2-3 auto-attacks in anyway, and Sheen is the best way to jack up the damage on those 2-3 attacks.
Now, that being said, I think AP Sion just isn't the way you should build him. At least not in the metagame. AP Sion is a monster insta-gibber, but you basically don't have any good ways to spec for real survivability through AP investments and if you're fighting a bunch of tanks, you need sustained damage output, not this petty burst crap. I'll let other good players say I'm a tard for this, but I think Sion should typically be Sheen -> mercs -> Survivability Item -> Zeal -> Survivability Item -> Triforce -> Tank Spam + maybe LW/Atma's. Doing this lets you have his strong early game (playing much the way straight AP Sion would play it) and then fluidly transition into a reasonably strong late game. This is assuming they have something in the way of squishies though. No squishies, go straight tanking + LW/Atma's, fuck the sheen opening and triforce late game. As far as abilities are concerned I've never seen the point in leveling his stun past 1 unless you're all in on AP, so I'd do stun -> enrage -> shield -> shield -> shield -> ult and then prioritize like this: ult > Shield > Enrage > Stun.
Sorta an aside: I still can't figure out why everyone likes to dump on Triforce. Yes, the item's all over the place, but if you want everything it's giving, it's very efficient at it. No one argues that Sheen, Phage or Zeal is terrible (well, I guess some argue about Sheen, but they're wrong, item's still fine), and then for 300 more you get:
2 AD
5 AP
5% Attack Speed
2% Crit Chance
4% Movespeed
50 Mana
75 Health
Phage Proc Slow increased from 30% to 35%
Sheen Proc Damage increased from 80% to 130%, also if the tooltips are correct, Triforces proc does not have the 3 second CD that Sheen's has.
zzzzz, w/e... on a character like Sion, I still think it's a really balanced 1-stop-shop for all your offensive needs, both burst and sustained. Then again I think Malady's fine on TF so don't mind me, herpdederp.
EDIT: and oh yea, I waltz on out of Galio's Explosion radius with Merc Treads like it's my job, lol. I'm not a fan of triforce on anyone but poppy and blitz Just gonna interject here and say that for Poppy, Lich Bane + Deathfire is better at getting kills than Triforce + anything else. And cheaper too. Add in a blue pot and it's an incredibly sick combo that will get kills all the way into late game. No more offense is needed... additional gold can get wards, GA (very nice synergy with her passive) and aura items. i've seen knaan and rambo two-shot tanks with that combo haha. Nony my trade offer is still up . my account for lessons on being awesome? there may or may not be RIOT points incoming for WCG and alienware stuff. uninstalled LoL sorry haha. i just have fun watching streams now (mostly hotshot) for a break from SC2. You can't quit Nony, I want to have the pleasure of getting facerolled by you when you become imba at LoL just like SC2 =(. how come you dont say anything when i quit? jerkface.
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Just won a game in 19 minutes. I was ashe. Their ashe ragequit after I killed her 3 times in 5 mins. The rest ragequit when we pushed both top and mid in under 15 mins. ^^
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On August 25 2010 07:05 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 07:03 LoCicero wrote:On August 25 2010 05:57 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 25 2010 05:54 redtooth wrote:On August 25 2010 05:52 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 25 2010 03:43 r33k wrote:On August 25 2010 02:46 Mogwai wrote:
I don't really have a fancy defense for sheen on Sion, but the gist of it is that between your nukes and ult, you can get 2-3 procs of it in a typical "Sion is here and you are dead" fight. AP Sion is all about the 3-4 second burst and Sheen is a really cost effective way to jack that up + it builds into lichbane later which really lets you explode people. Essentially, the way AP sion plays only lets him get 2-3 auto-attacks in anyway, and Sheen is the best way to jack up the damage on those 2-3 attacks.
Now, that being said, I think AP Sion just isn't the way you should build him. At least not in the metagame. AP Sion is a monster insta-gibber, but you basically don't have any good ways to spec for real survivability through AP investments and if you're fighting a bunch of tanks, you need sustained damage output, not this petty burst crap. I'll let other good players say I'm a tard for this, but I think Sion should typically be Sheen -> mercs -> Survivability Item -> Zeal -> Survivability Item -> Triforce -> Tank Spam + maybe LW/Atma's. Doing this lets you have his strong early game (playing much the way straight AP Sion would play it) and then fluidly transition into a reasonably strong late game. This is assuming they have something in the way of squishies though. No squishies, go straight tanking + LW/Atma's, fuck the sheen opening and triforce late game. As far as abilities are concerned I've never seen the point in leveling his stun past 1 unless you're all in on AP, so I'd do stun -> enrage -> shield -> shield -> shield -> ult and then prioritize like this: ult > Shield > Enrage > Stun.
Sorta an aside: I still can't figure out why everyone likes to dump on Triforce. Yes, the item's all over the place, but if you want everything it's giving, it's very efficient at it. No one argues that Sheen, Phage or Zeal is terrible (well, I guess some argue about Sheen, but they're wrong, item's still fine), and then for 300 more you get:
2 AD
5 AP
5% Attack Speed
2% Crit Chance
4% Movespeed
50 Mana
75 Health
Phage Proc Slow increased from 30% to 35%
Sheen Proc Damage increased from 80% to 130%, also if the tooltips are correct, Triforces proc does not have the 3 second CD that Sheen's has.
zzzzz, w/e... on a character like Sion, I still think it's a really balanced 1-stop-shop for all your offensive needs, both burst and sustained. Then again I think Malady's fine on TF so don't mind me, herpdederp.
EDIT: and oh yea, I waltz on out of Galio's Explosion radius with Merc Treads like it's my job, lol. I'm not a fan of triforce on anyone but poppy and blitz Just gonna interject here and say that for Poppy, Lich Bane + Deathfire is better at getting kills than Triforce + anything else. And cheaper too. Add in a blue pot and it's an incredibly sick combo that will get kills all the way into late game. No more offense is needed... additional gold can get wards, GA (very nice synergy with her passive) and aura items. i've seen knaan and rambo two-shot tanks with that combo haha. Nony my trade offer is still up . my account for lessons on being awesome? there may or may not be RIOT points incoming for WCG and alienware stuff. uninstalled LoL sorry haha. i just have fun watching streams now (mostly hotshot) for a break from SC2. You can't quit Nony, I want to have the pleasure of getting facerolled by you when you become imba at LoL just like SC2 =(. how come you dont say anything when i quit? jerkface.
haha, I hadn't gotten to that post yet, I was working my way from back to front of the thread, keep your pants on. Oh yeah, and I guess you can't quit either, or whatever.
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So I did the all the HoG before 13 minutes (I actually picked up one at 13:30, would have been before if I got a kill or assist), usually gives me 3 HoG, and room to buy wards, so I like it.
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On August 25 2010 07:05 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 07:03 LoCicero wrote:On August 25 2010 05:57 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 25 2010 05:54 redtooth wrote:On August 25 2010 05:52 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On August 25 2010 03:43 r33k wrote:On August 25 2010 02:46 Mogwai wrote:
I don't really have a fancy defense for sheen on Sion, but the gist of it is that between your nukes and ult, you can get 2-3 procs of it in a typical "Sion is here and you are dead" fight. AP Sion is all about the 3-4 second burst and Sheen is a really cost effective way to jack that up + it builds into lichbane later which really lets you explode people. Essentially, the way AP sion plays only lets him get 2-3 auto-attacks in anyway, and Sheen is the best way to jack up the damage on those 2-3 attacks.
Now, that being said, I think AP Sion just isn't the way you should build him. At least not in the metagame. AP Sion is a monster insta-gibber, but you basically don't have any good ways to spec for real survivability through AP investments and if you're fighting a bunch of tanks, you need sustained damage output, not this petty burst crap. I'll let other good players say I'm a tard for this, but I think Sion should typically be Sheen -> mercs -> Survivability Item -> Zeal -> Survivability Item -> Triforce -> Tank Spam + maybe LW/Atma's. Doing this lets you have his strong early game (playing much the way straight AP Sion would play it) and then fluidly transition into a reasonably strong late game. This is assuming they have something in the way of squishies though. No squishies, go straight tanking + LW/Atma's, fuck the sheen opening and triforce late game. As far as abilities are concerned I've never seen the point in leveling his stun past 1 unless you're all in on AP, so I'd do stun -> enrage -> shield -> shield -> shield -> ult and then prioritize like this: ult > Shield > Enrage > Stun.
Sorta an aside: I still can't figure out why everyone likes to dump on Triforce. Yes, the item's all over the place, but if you want everything it's giving, it's very efficient at it. No one argues that Sheen, Phage or Zeal is terrible (well, I guess some argue about Sheen, but they're wrong, item's still fine), and then for 300 more you get:
2 AD
5 AP
5% Attack Speed
2% Crit Chance
4% Movespeed
50 Mana
75 Health
Phage Proc Slow increased from 30% to 35%
Sheen Proc Damage increased from 80% to 130%, also if the tooltips are correct, Triforces proc does not have the 3 second CD that Sheen's has.
zzzzz, w/e... on a character like Sion, I still think it's a really balanced 1-stop-shop for all your offensive needs, both burst and sustained. Then again I think Malady's fine on TF so don't mind me, herpdederp.
EDIT: and oh yea, I waltz on out of Galio's Explosion radius with Merc Treads like it's my job, lol. I'm not a fan of triforce on anyone but poppy and blitz Just gonna interject here and say that for Poppy, Lich Bane + Deathfire is better at getting kills than Triforce + anything else. And cheaper too. Add in a blue pot and it's an incredibly sick combo that will get kills all the way into late game. No more offense is needed... additional gold can get wards, GA (very nice synergy with her passive) and aura items. i've seen knaan and rambo two-shot tanks with that combo haha. Nony my trade offer is still up . my account for lessons on being awesome? there may or may not be RIOT points incoming for WCG and alienware stuff. uninstalled LoL sorry haha. i just have fun watching streams now (mostly hotshot) for a break from SC2. You can't quit Nony, I want to have the pleasure of getting facerolled by you when you become imba at LoL just like SC2 =(. how come you dont say anything when i quit? jerkface.
cuz you never had his back wra.
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I'm pretty sure tankwick is the best way to play warwick atm, Q + being alive to R when they run instead of having to initiate with it and hoping they don't kill you so you can attack is just better. Maybe it's just me. Once you're past the gank phase the survivability really trumps having a bloodrazor even if you do melt champs with it because of all the stun/disable tanks being run right now.
I don't even finish bloodrazors in most of my ranked warwick games nowadays. It doesn't affect me much.
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You know, I don't mind having bad teammates, because I know I'm not very good myself. It does bother me when a bad teammate insults everyone else on the team and acts like he's so much better.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
thats a facepalm way to play warwick, you are just banking on them hitting you to be effective which is great against idiots but terrible in theory
bloodrazor's/merc treads/GA core build or bust!
and i see a lot of warwicks that are somehow super squishy even when they get the same items as me dunno...i never feel squishy. gotta play warwick like mundo, running in and out of the fihht sustaining yourself with Q
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On August 25 2010 07:45 Brees wrote:
thats a facepalm way to play warwick, you are just banking on them hitting you to be effective which is great against idiots but terrible in theory
bloodrazor's/merc treads/GA core build or bust!
and i see a lot of warwicks that are somehow super squishy even when they get the same items as me dunno...i never feel squishy. gotta play warwick like mundo, running in and out of the fihht sustaining yourself with Q
I dunno I feel like me being alive towards the end of a fight is a bigger deal than doing 4% per hit, and there is a LOT of CC nowadays so usually I go razors -> merc -> banshees -> GA/FoN then finish bloodrazors if the game goes that late. If I'm able to remove their carry from the fight by sticking on them, sustain damage on the tanks with Q, ult-stun to set up chain kills or catch runners... I just think it's really versatile. I feel like me being alive to make clutch decisions trumps me doing a bunch of damage and being dead when I could set up a kill.
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On August 25 2010 07:45 Brees wrote:
thats a facepalm way to play warwick, you are just banking on them hitting you to be effective which is great against idiots but terrible in theory
bloodrazor's/merc treads/GA core build or bust!
and i see a lot of warwicks that are somehow super squishy even when they get the same items as me dunno...i never feel squishy. gotta play warwick like mundo, running in and out of the fihht sustaining yourself with Q
why finish the bloodrazor if you're just running in and out of the fight with q??? that 3k~ extra gold does not justify the extra dmg you do with your ult assuming your ult doesnt get interrupted anyway, your ult is there to hold them and your team can kill the target. i believe 1000g razor/merc/GA then go more tank or finish razor is the best way to go on WW.
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OK I'm going for the scrubbiest Kennen pub build known to man
9/0/21
MPen / energy regen plvl / cdr plvl / flat energy regen
flash ghost
Dorans Shield + pot
some boots
Nashors Tooth
whatever sounds awesome
With just Tooth, masteries + runes, I have max CDR and the regen equiv. of a blue buff, at all times.
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9/21/0 or 0/21/9 for kennen, imo. You seriously don't need CDR that bad, lol.
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it wouldn't be scrubby enough without MAX CDR
also putting points in defensive mastery depresses me when I know neither SOS or Nimbleness will help my ninja bro
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On August 25 2010 08:00 myopia wrote:
OK I'm going for the scrubbiest Kennen pub build known to man
9/0/21
MPen / energy regen plvl / cdr plvl / flat energy regen
flash ghost
Dorans Shield + pot
some boots
Nashors Tooth
whatever sounds awesome
With just Tooth, masteries + runes, I have max CDR and the regen equiv. of a blue buff, at all times.
I've been experimenting with Kennen and found a build I really like. I build him as an off tank, you run in after your tank does and Lightning Rush to their carries and Ulti. You can chain stun them for the whole fight.
My build is something like this.
Boots 1
Rylais
Merc/Tabi (almost always merc)
Sunfire Cape
Abbysal Specter
GA
The tank items are dependent on their team, obviously.
The problem with this build is you're pretty weak until you get your sunfire so try to get a solo lane.
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soo
first thoughts on urgot:
masteries and runes are fairly negligable, ive been going both mpen and apen, recommend apen over mpen tho, i feel apen at the beginning (kinda scales off later tho) which helps zoning a good bit. also tried 9/0/21 and 0/9/21, 2nd one feels a bit better, since the 1st doesnt really change anything in laning phase in my experience, while the 2nd gives great staying power due to SoS
edit: i should note that mp5s of some kind are really great, he has a bit of mana issues otherwise. If you dont have them, nab a dorans ring and you should probably be fine. I start ring and have boatloads of mana.
Been going q->e->w->max q (r @ 6) then max w, and e last, basically use e just for aiming q on champs, otherwise ive found leveling it up to be kinda lackluster (doesnt increase duration), esp since his shield is soo great (towers do practically nothing plus adds a slow to your shit, its amazing). Note that this skill build is for an AD centric build, not AP. I'd have to test how important it is to max q to maybe neglect maxing it in favor of getting w/e faster for AP build, since both scale.
Items: Frozen mallet has been great (stacks with w for mega slow), brutalizer has seemed a bit underwhelming, guinsoo's is a no-go (unless mybe on ap build, but on ad and hybrid its been pretty bad), randuins is pretty great, frozen heart also a good choice, the cooldowns and mana work quite well with him. Been doing merc treads for boots, tho zerks might be feasable. Gotta make sure to be a bit tanky tho, since ur gonna be in the middle of alot of shit due to ur ult, so as long as u bulk up a bit, w should make you largely invulnerable in the midst of chaos
At some point im gonna try an AP build, but this is what ive got so far. Hope it helps some1
also, any and all criticism is welcome, i am both low-midish elo and (ofc) new to this hero, so constructive critique is welcome
edit: once you've grabbed some tank items so you can stay alive when shit gets real, bf items seem to really help dmg output with your q, cleaver and thirster seem better since you're gonna have inventory space issues with the tanky items you've already got.
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nothin better than free skins
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EPT
