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On January 14 2012 17:16 h3r1n6 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 11:46 FuzzyLord wrote:
She's good, but the main problem about her not getting played is that she can't take a role effectively. She can either a) solo mid or b) support bot, both of which have better champions to fill the role. Taric, Sona, Soraka, and Ali can all out-sustain their bot lane, and the closest thing to her type of support (shielding) is Janna, and even Janna has much more utility than Orianna. AP Mid is just dominated by super stupid broken champs that it doesn't even matter. Of course she gets outshined by support champions, because she is not a support champion. That's like play support sion, since he can stun and lifesteal for the team with his ult. She has to go mid (don't think I ever played her top, she can't control the space there with her ball since the lane is too large), and she does that well. What super stupid broken champ is a better pick than orianna? If you want a burst assassin, yeah, orianna won't fill that roll. Orianna offers good poke, utility and great teamfighting, especially with another aoe ult. She is really strong in lane as well, I barely ever lose to anyone with her, at worst it ends up in free farm. The hardest match up might be zilean, but pretty much everyone has a hard time against him.
Morgana can out-sustain Orianna in lane cuz of her spell vamp. Ryze is just stupid. Zilean can bomb then run away. Kass can easily just silence and jump onto Orianna. Cassiopeia can (if the person can hit q's) out harass Orianna. There are just so many better picks for mid than Orianna that she's just not played that much. I'm not saying that she is terrible, she's crazy good and fun to play, but BECAUSE she takes some level of skill and brains, people don't want to play her since there's other AP mid casters that are easier to play and get elo faster.
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I have seen Orianna picking up steam in EU, wonder if it will trickle to US.
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I had an Orianna get picked the other day in ranked, but she got completely shit on.
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On January 15 2012 01:27 FuzzyLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 17:16 h3r1n6 wrote:On January 14 2012 11:46 FuzzyLord wrote:
She's good, but the main problem about her not getting played is that she can't take a role effectively. She can either a) solo mid or b) support bot, both of which have better champions to fill the role. Taric, Sona, Soraka, and Ali can all out-sustain their bot lane, and the closest thing to her type of support (shielding) is Janna, and even Janna has much more utility than Orianna. AP Mid is just dominated by super stupid broken champs that it doesn't even matter. Of course she gets outshined by support champions, because she is not a support champion. That's like play support sion, since he can stun and lifesteal for the team with his ult. She has to go mid (don't think I ever played her top, she can't control the space there with her ball since the lane is too large), and she does that well. What super stupid broken champ is a better pick than orianna? If you want a burst assassin, yeah, orianna won't fill that roll. Orianna offers good poke, utility and great teamfighting, especially with another aoe ult. She is really strong in lane as well, I barely ever lose to anyone with her, at worst it ends up in free farm. The hardest match up might be zilean, but pretty much everyone has a hard time against him. Morgana can out-sustain Orianna in lane cuz of her spell vamp. Ryze is just stupid. Zilean can bomb then run away. Kass can easily just silence and jump onto Orianna. Cassiopeia can (if the person can hit q's) out harass Orianna. There are just so many better picks for mid than Orianna that she's just not played that much. I'm not saying that she is terrible, she's crazy good and fun to play, but BECAUSE she takes some level of skill and brains, people don't want to play her since there's other AP mid casters that are easier to play and get elo faster.
Ori can actually do pretty well against a kassa, but yeah, she's too hard to play for most lol. She's like all skillshot.
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Continuing a discussion on the GD thread: Orianna's mana problems, tear or drings stack or catalyst rush or chalice?
Tear:
- provides a bit of regen on top of the manapool, can be built into AA later ; doesn't provide early survivability nor firepower
Drings:
- provides AP, HP and mp5 ; will have to be sold later on, the more drings you buy, the more you delay your big item (normally deathcap)
Cata rush:
- provides survivability, mana, and a form of sustain ; doesn't give firepower nor "real" sustain later on, builds into RoA which may not be as good on Ori than on other APs due to her range
Chalice:
- provides MR and infinite mana (via mp5) ; doesn't give any firepower nor survivability against AD, will probablu have to be sold later on.
Since I'm not too sure about getting RoA on Ori, and I don't like Tear as the only squishy option, I'd lean more toward chalice on drings stack. And then, unless the MR is needed to survive (people suggested LB), I'd rather have the HP from the drings, on top of some AP to harass harder.
If the rings take too long to kick in tho, Chalice is certainly nice too. I've bought her when she got on sale so I'll test her... probably later, Jax/Cass free week and stuff.
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If you play aggressive mid I'd recommend starting with chalice as her range is no longer the godlike zoner monster, so now you'll go into trades where you most likely will take a spell hit. Remember to use your sick good AAs in trades, it's deceptive how strong several AAs stack up in damage with her passive. Before the nerfs you didn't really need to enter AA range to harass the opponent.
In any case, I would build some items with mp5, be it drings, chalice, tear or combination, as in team fights you will be burning through a lot of mana to keep the ball moving, as you aren't using it only for offensive moves, but the utility from W speed up and ofc the shielding means you are gonna cast constantly in and out of the fights. Blue buff is good, but you can't 100% rely on having it.
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On January 31 2012 21:24 Alaric wrote:
Continuing a discussion on the GD thread: Orianna's mana problems, tear or drings stack or catalyst rush or chalice?
Tear:
- provides a bit of regen on top of the manapool, can be built into AA later ; doesn't provide early survivability nor firepower
Drings:
- provides AP, HP and mp5 ; will have to be sold later on, the more drings you buy, the more you delay your big item (normally deathcap)
Cata rush:
- provides survivability, mana, and a form of sustain ; doesn't give firepower nor "real" sustain later on, builds into RoA which may not be as good on Ori than on other APs due to her range
Chalice:
- provides MR and infinite mana (via mp5) ; doesn't give any firepower nor survivability against AD, will probablu have to be sold later on.
Since I'm not too sure about getting RoA on Ori, and I don't like Tear as the only squishy option, I'd lean more toward chalice on drings stack. And then, unless the MR is needed to survive (people suggested LB), I'd rather have the HP from the drings, on top of some AP to harass harder.
If the rings take too long to kick in tho, Chalice is certainly nice too. I've bought her when she got on sale so I'll test her... probably later, Jax/Cass free week and stuff.
Just make sure you always get blue buff, or go RoA just in case IMO. RoA or 3 dring-->dcap seem like the only options unless somehow you PLAN to lose all your blue buffs.
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I don't think Chalice is a great choice. It gives you tons of mana sustain in lane, but in a teamfight it's still not as good as the deep mana pool of RoA. And due to her range, you often don't need the MR in lane unless you're against someone with lots of mobility or range (so Salce got it vs Leblanc because of that). Not to mention that you don't pick Orianna unless you know you can secure blues.
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I prefer the RoA route on her. The catalyst sustain is great, it gives durability to be able to be aggressive and trade with auto attacks and the mana pool comes in handy for teamfights (more so than mp5 will, mp5 is better for lane). It delays the Deathcap a bit longer than 2 or 3 dorans rings would, but that's fine.
The only thing I actually wish they'd buff is her movement speed. Put it at 315, where Lux is.
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Drings - death cap is my preferred build. love that damage and early game lol. also, i've had some fairly good games with leona. leona engages and then i W and then down swipe the ball towards me with Q or W ulti Q.The fact that leona jumps past the other champ works well with ori
also all this talk about ori using chalice... wasn't this in a game vs lb? he probably got it mainly for the MR
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On January 31 2012 21:24 Alaric wrote:
Continuing a discussion on the GD thread: Orianna's mana problems, tear or drings stack or catalyst rush or chalice?
Tear:
- provides a bit of regen on top of the manapool, can be built into AA later ; doesn't provide early survivability nor firepower
Drings:
- provides AP, HP and mp5 ; will have to be sold later on, the more drings you buy, the more you delay your big item (normally deathcap)
Cata rush:
- provides survivability, mana, and a form of sustain ; doesn't give firepower nor "real" sustain later on, builds into RoA which may not be as good on Ori than on other APs due to her range
Chalice:
- provides MR and infinite mana (via mp5) ; doesn't give any firepower nor survivability against AD, will probablu have to be sold later on.
Since I'm not too sure about getting RoA on Ori, and I don't like Tear as the only squishy option, I'd lean more toward chalice on drings stack. And then, unless the MR is needed to survive (people suggested LB), I'd rather have the HP from the drings, on top of some AP to harass harder.
If the rings take too long to kick in tho, Chalice is certainly nice too. I've bought her when she got on sale so I'll test her... probably later, Jax/Cass free week and stuff.
Tear makes no sense at all. Yes, she can fill it; - but she's no Anivia or Swain.
Chalice makes sense if you need the MRes in lane, e.g. against LB (I'm assuming that's why Salce did it).
Cata makes sense vs bursty lanes if you don't want to get Chalice and if you want RoA -> DC.
Drings make sense for Dring -> DC
Basicly this leaves us with:
a) Drings -> DC -> Voidstaff
b) Cata -> RoA -> DC.
c) Chalice -> DC -> Voidstaff.
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I think Chalice is a playstyle choice. For certain people or in certain match ups it makes sense. I believe it was Hotshot who used to get it so he could clear waves quickly and then gank or steal enemy wraiths without ever going oom.
I really like Cata -> RoA on her. It's what I would run when she was always played and I just played her in a few games like last week and Cata -> RoA still feels really strong. I think that Drings -> Dcap can work but is more ideal if your team is really reliant on you for midgame burst (so if you're running a support jungle or like a Malphite top or something). In a game with a typical carry jungler, standard bruiser top, I feel like Cata -> RoA is the most reliable build on her.
You can get away with making RoA your only real "survivability" item in lots of match ups due to her shield. While the ratio did get nerfed she still has a 240 shield with a .4 AP ratio so getting big AP items like RoA, Dcap, and Zhonya's can give you a great deal of survivability (with these three items you have a 428 damage shield). Her biggest issue is still player skill though. If you miss a Q you are completely fucked for the next four seconds.
Regardless, she has a lot of options and I'm not sure there's a lane that she flat out loses. Like even lanes that are tough for her she can still get her farm without dying due to how fast QW clears waves. I also think that in certain match ups Q>E>W can be better than Q>W>E. Come to think of it, when she was released lots of people were maxing W>Q>E. So at the very least she has lots of options for skill order and build order which I think makes her not only a fun champion but a champion whose potential still isn't fully discovered.
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I recently started playing her (i played her a bit at release so really hard now lol) and what masteries are recommended?
Edit: sry, meant to say runes. I don't know why I always confuse the two when talking about them.
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United States37500 Posts
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On February 09 2012 12:31 Dark_Chill wrote:
I recently started playing her (i played her a bit at release so really hard now lol) and what masteries are recommended?
Edit: sry, meant to say runes. I don't know why I always confuse the two when talking about them.
Red: MPen, obligatory for casters
Yellow: scaling MRegen, scaling AP. With the amount of mana Orianna is able to burn through, I'd go with scaling MRegen.
Blue: scaling AP, flat MR against some matchups.
Quints: flat AP. I started liking a mixture of 2 AP and 1 MS Quint, but that's personal preference.
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Orianna + Rammus ... DAT COMBO
We raped them.
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On February 09 2012 12:31 Dark_Chill wrote:
I recently started playing her (i played her a bit at release so really hard now lol) and what masteries are recommended?
Edit: sry, meant to say runes. I don't know why I always confuse the two when talking about them.
Salce (imo the best Ori player/"Some highschool kid who just like... fucks girls on the volleyball team or something") uses Magic Pen reds, Scaling MP5 yellows, Flat MR blues, and then 2 flat HP quints and a flat MR quint.
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I've recently been playing some games as AD ori taking 15 dmg from masteries and leveling e>w>q. While obviously its not top tier it seems to work out pretty well with the self resists/shields and self peel. 21/0/9
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So, Orianna. Picked her up after the free week as I've been meaning to pick up another utility-friendly mid (Morgana's frequently banned, I'm no Zilean fan and teammates assume I'm trolling with Karma) - I have plenty of things to improve on with her, as she's a lot less point'n'click/works-in-a-straight-line compared to Ryze/Xerath.
Are there any decent VoDs/replays of Salce or any other decent Orianna player during the laning phase, or would I have to take what I can get from spectated tournament games? I need to work on my laning - I've found it difficult to harass with autoattacks due to her short range without eating some form of combo, and her in-lane mana can get a bit iffy if you're using her Q/W to farm. r.Evo, are there any changes to the OP considering her current status? What matchups are particularly unfavorable? I was thrashed/zoned by a Ziggs in one match (possibly by juking into too many Qs), though managed to stalemate against another Ziggs in the next game.
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Can someone tell me why Orianna is not considered as a good support?
I've been using after getting bored of Sona, and everything she does seems to be so good for a support role. My AD gets free resistances, a shield (which works almost like a heal, just have to use it at right time) and a slow that pretty much prevents you from getting ganked (speed up for you, slow for them) . Her q can reveal bushes, her ult can pick up some awesome assists+awesome saves.
How is she not awesome?
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EPT
