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On March 28 2012 22:21 Dark_Chill wrote:
Can someone tell me why Orianna is not considered as a good support?
I've been using after getting bored of Sona, and everything she does seems to be so good for a support role. My AD gets free resistances, a shield (which works almost like a heal, just have to use it at right time) and a slow that pretty much prevents you from getting ganked (speed up for you, slow for them) . Her q can reveal bushes, her ult can pick up some awesome assists+awesome saves.
How is she not awesome?
Dat mana cost. Unlike say a Janna she can't spam her abilities during any possible trade because she will just go oom stupidly fast. And... yeah Janna does almost everything better. Has the same shield, the slow, and has a knockup useful for checking bushes. Their ults opposite, but good Janna ult much easier and works better in most teamcomps. That said, Ori much better at gank assisting imo.
-.-
Other than that? No reason really. Just not FotM.
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The OP really needs an update to stay with the times. I'm a ~1550 player so take what I say with a grain of salt if you want.
Stats/Patchnotes needs an update rather badly.
Masteries
21/0/9,
Standard AP getting the mana masteries in utility and buff duration since without them, orianna runs OOM at an astonishing rate.
The reason you go 21 into offense is although her ratios and base values do not seem particularly high, (0.6 on Q, 0.5 on W, 0.3 on E, 0.7 on R) her autoattacks scale at 0.2. Every little bit adds up. You can't easily 100-0 someone unless they're near your tower and you have a movement speed advantage on them but you can take them from 80-0 if you hit your skills and hit ignite (Really easy to do if you hit a QW and then wait for cooldowns to hit them with a full QWR+shiftE+ignite combo and then right click them to tower).
Runes.
Marks - Flat Mpen- The most powerful offensive rune for an AP caster in this slot.
The only other option is MR reds which aren't too good on orianna since her base values aren't high enough to get away with doing so.
Seals - Mana regen per level - Since the nerf a while ago, her mana costs are rather astronomical. Using Q to reposition the ball is not something you can do unless you're going to hit your opponent with it. The HP/level option and AP/level options aren't very viable anymore since unless you're super conservative with mana you're going to oom and eat free harass unless you base a lot. Lack of a defensive yellow rune on orianna is the reason I run MR blues.
Glyphs - Flat MR -or- AP/level - Going to lane with 13 extra MR is huge compared to having the minor amounts of AP. At level 6, you're getting 10 extra AP, translating to ~25 extra damage at best from a full combo + autoattacks. On the other hand, 15 MR gives you 13% extra effective health which is ~110 health at level 6. Much more useful and scales pretty well into late game. MR/level won't help you during the early to mid laning phase which is when you need it most, not good on an AP mid. One small variation is having two mpen blues so that you have ~10 mpen such that with sorc boots you deal true damage to your opponents without MR.
Summoner Spells
Flash - You need the repositioning, Flash + W makes it rather difficult for most junglers to catch up/kill you if you're in a bind
Ignite - Nowadays most top laners run exhaust or teleport and bottom lane is heal/exhaust. Mid is usually the only place where an ignite is found and you NEED one, especially if the other team has a mundo/swain/vlad/other high sustain champion.
Opening items
Boots+3 pots
You cannot afford to get caught in a position where you're taking damage all the way to tower. Dorans allows you to do more damage and use more skills, however, if you open dorans, your opponent will most likely blow their mana bar and ignite and force to to base by level 3. You can't live without some form of sustain mid, especially since orianna has no guaranteed damage skills. Boots also helps you live jungle ganks.
Item build
Boots + 3 pots into double dorans. You need the mana regen rather badly in order to survive the few minutes where you don't have blue. From there, you can build:
Sorc boots + Double dorans - By far the best balance of early game damage, survivability and sustain. With the right runes, you're dealing true damage or near it.
Deathcap, RoA, WotA, Void Staff are good standard items. Rylais/banshee/abyssal/Hourglasss are the defensive oriented items that I get the most. A tear may sound good on orianna but you don't have enough mana to charge it up in laning phase without a blue which counteracts the reason why you're getting the tear in the first place. It's much better to just be smart with how you cast skills.
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Do you guys know of any good VoDs of Orianna to see how one's supposed to lane her? I'd especially approve first person stream VODs of players like Salce, but I haven't really been able to find any recent ones.
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I played a good bit of ori while waiting for stuff to sell in the D3 auction house. Chalice is pretty amazing on her, since with blue and masteries, she has essentially maxed CDR. I've been trying both chalice -> RoA -> grail and double dorans -> deathcap -> eventual grail with a few different rune setups.
Runes A: Mpen reds, mana/lvl yellow, ap/level blue, flat AP quints
Runes B/C: Mpen reds, mana/lvl yellow, MR blue, AP or MR quints
The chalice route goes pretty well with the MR pages since you do less damage with her poke but can afford to poke more often. The standard AP carry page/build with double dorans works as expected but if you get the codex for chalice, your teamfight damage goes up a pretty good amount because of the CDR even though your ulti does less damage than usual.
One last thing I did was my semi-troll page vs a kassadin who thought he was counterpicking me.
AD reds, hp/level yellows, MR blues, MR quints.
Go QEEWER and focus on right clicking kassadin whenever possible. After 6, you should focus on levelling either Q or W for damage but kassadin's Q should barely scratch you and with the MR from the ball on you, kassadin will run oom if he tries to harass you down. I managed to force him to b twice before level 6 since he literally could not last hit anywhere but under tower. Fun game.
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Jesus my OP is full of shit. Already PM'd Neo to make a short edit so I can make this whole thing solid again. STAY TUNED!
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Alright, with the recent buffs/nerfs to orianna, I think it's time to open up some discussion on orianna again. I think personally that maxing W, if you didn't do it before, is something you'll have to do now (QWWEW). Running standard AP runes (AP quints, ap/lvl glyphs, mpen marks), hitting a Q+W at level 5 enables you to force a flash at level 6 by (Her passive stacks and does absurd damage) hitting a Q>R>ignite>W>E self + 3 autoattacks. You'll kill 90% of midlaners
At level 1-3, you can auto-attack any mid-laner and win out in the trade. Against any melee mids, you can go Q>E>W>W>W. By getting a point in E, you can negate a lot of the spell harass that people can throw at you (kassadin's Q, some of gragas barrel) and just right click them continously. After you stack your passive up to full, you're doing more damage with your autos than you do with Q. If you can land a Q+W combo, you can usually get 2-3 auto's in as well, it's enough to put most people under half health easily.
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Been busy with work and other stuffs but I've been reading around and most people tend to feel like her changes were more of a nerf than a buff? I mean, lower damage on Q plus slower speed on Q sounds horrifically bad. Obviously you can't max Q anymore but slower ball speed means that comboing is going to be more predictable and harder to do even if the spells are more responsive when strung together.
I wouldn't be surprised if max E becomes popular on her now honestly. Her E was already strong in lane phase but it'll be even stronger during later parts of the game and more than likely E->R->W->Q will be a faster/better combo in team fights. Max E could let you just auto attack a bunch for damage while taking significantly less yourself.
This is all theorycraft though. I haven't gotten to play since the patch hit due to irl obligations.
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Levels in Q still do far more for both your sustained damage and your mana efficiency, so I dunno why you wouldn't max it first. The movespeed nerf doesn't stop it from being guaranteed damage in most laning situations.
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People have maxed Q over W before, now that's a no brainer since W got his scaling buffed and the base damage nerfed. Q vs E is something we should keep an eye out for, I can definitly see E max working well.
Updated the entire OP, nothing really new added. The scarra video linked above pretty much says it all.
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Hmm watching froggen, he rarely plays orianna for her burst. He consistently goes Q>W, auto+auto, Q>R, auto+auto, Q>W. He doesn't blow his burst all in one go unless there actually is a large group.
As he puts it, Orianna is not a burst mage, she's a support+poke+AoE mage
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So funny to see Froggen crush face with orianna, granted he duod with misaya and on only 1600 elo but nevertheless, He maxes w right? and Im not sure but is the patch live on korea? Seems like he still played the old orianna, I noticed becaused there was no Dragon was killed announcement.
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Froggen just explained his skilling order on orianna, QWQWERWW, R>W>Q>E. The reason he only keeps one/two points in Q regardless is because of last hitting minions at tower, sending the ball through the minions with level 1 Q is equivalent to autoattacking all the minions. If you know how much damage you need to do to the minions it helps with last hitting at tower immensely.
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On July 08 2012 19:04 Lmui wrote:
Froggen just explained his skilling order on orianna, QWQWERWW, R>W>Q>E. The reason he only keeps one/two points in Q regardless is because of last hitting minions at tower, sending the ball through the minions with level 1 Q is equivalent to autoattacking all the minions. If you know how much damage you need to do to the minions it helps with last hitting at tower immensely.
That is genius o.O
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ive been practicing orianna lately and i gotta say its pretty hard to master the ball, but im starting to get the idea of when to zone out ppl in team fights and when to use my ult. (e on initiator and then r w is pretty sick combo).
Ive been wondering about the best items for aggressive play. double doran vs catalyst is my biggest concern. I'm not lvl 30 yet so from the above guide Idk if i'll be doing true dmg. Cata seems to be the safe bet. I also heard that if you can live, tear is a good starting item.
Now into mid-late game, why void staff over abyssal?
I tend to get boot>roa>sorc>death cap>abyssal>armor>idk wat
Also do people still tend to max w before q, I'm still unsure of the reason so ive been maxing q first.
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I think Orianna needs Grail for mana... extra CDR allows her to shield more often and reposition her ball more often.
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On October 12 2012 14:38 Sufficiency wrote:
I think Orianna needs Grail for mana... extra CDR allows her to shield more often and reposition her ball more often.
if you go double doran then you should have decent mana regen already. I do not think catalyst start is that good for Orianna, she has some defensive skills to protect herself already.
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On October 12 2012 14:40 DarkwindHK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 14:38 Sufficiency wrote:
I think Orianna needs Grail for mana... extra CDR allows her to shield more often and reposition her ball more often. if you go double doran then you should have decent mana regen already. I do not think catalyst start is that good for Orianna, she has some defensive skills to protect herself already.
Well, the Doran's mana regen bonus also gets multiplied by chalice, so it's not that bad to get maybe 1 Doran with chalice for some champions.
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I've taken to going either straight chalice-> grail or one dorans into codex and grabbing a grail as my first item. CDR is a beautiful thing to have on orianna, especially against any mobile mid. RoA used to be my go-to item but constant mana regen is pretty equal to a large mana pool in the short run and better in the long run, especially when farming wraiths. Having 30%+ CDR in the mid-game feels much better to me than having a bit more damage on WR. The ability to move the ball around more, W more, E more is awesome.
The primary reason to max W first is it gives pretty decent burst and has a longer overall range than Q does which makes a pretty big difference at higher skill levels. Q maxing does better sustained damage but in lane/early game fights, the fight will be decided primarily by QWR, not QWRQQ. Also, leaving Q at one point makes last hitting ranged minions under tower a breeze. Q them all once and then they're ready to kill after the tower hits them once.
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Thing that convinced me to max W over Q is the scaling slow/speed boost, so good at rank 5.
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EPT
