Last complete overhaul: 8/7/2012 Last patch the guide was updated: V1.0.0.142 Created by r.Evo (TL) / rTU (EU West) / rEvolutionTU (US) Current Version: V1.02
Changelog: V2.0 updated to the recent changes in patch V1.0.0.142 V1.02, changed the part about "NO DRING OMG NEWB" V1.01, added TreeEskimos itembuild, cheers south V1.00, guide posted.
Orianna, the Lady of Clockwork also known as "The Bitch with the Ball" or "That fucking portal girl with the creepy voice"
V1.0.0.142: Global spell cooldown reduced to 0.15 seconds from 0.5. Clockwork Windup: Base damage adjusted to 10-50 from 5-30. Damage amplification per stack increased to 20% from 15%. Maximum stacks reduced to 2 from 3. Ability power ratio reduced to 0.15 from 0.2. Command: Attack: Projectile speed reduced to 1200 from 1275. Cooldown reduced at later ranks to 6/5.25/4.5/3.75/3 seconds from 6/5.5/5/4.5/4. Damage reduced to 60/90/120/150/180 from 60/100/140/180/220. Ability power ratio reduced to 0.4 from 0.6. The ball now responds faster to Dissonance and Shockwave commands. Command: Dissonance: ability power ratio increased to 0.7 from 0.5. Command: Protect: Cast range increased by 100. Ball leash range increased by 100 when attached to an allied champion. The ball will now respond faster to Dissonance and Shockwave commands. Command: Shockwave: Cast time increased to 0.5 seconds from 0.4. Shockwave no longer stuns units for longer than the duration of the movement. If the ball forcibly leashes back to Orianna, Command: Shockwave will go on a brief cooldown if it is ready.
V1.0.0.138: Command: Attack: mana cost reduced to 50 at all ranks from 50/55/60/65/70.
V1.0.0.136: Now has improved targeting displays for her spells.
V1.0.0.129: Base mana regen increased to 7 per 5 seconds from 4.5 per 5 seconds. Mana regen per level increased to .5 per 5 seconds from .45 per 5 seconds Command: Attack: cast range increased to 825 from 800
V1.0.0.127: Basic attack range increased to 525 from 500.
V1.0.0.125: Basic attack range reduced to 500 from 550. Command: Attack: Mana cost increased to 50/55/60/65/70 from 40/45/50/55/60. Range reduced to 800 from 900.
V1.0.0.124: Command: Dissonance: base damage reduced to 70/115/160/205/250 from 70/120/170/220/270. Command: Protect: shield strength ability power ratio reduced to 0.4 from 0.6. Fixed a bug where Command: Shockwave was dealing extra damage at ranks 11 and 16.
V1.0.0.122: Command: Dissonance: Ability power ratio reduced to 0.5 from 0.6. Movement speed slow and boost reduced to 20/25/30/35/40% from 25/30/35/40/45%.
V1.0.0.120: *Clockwork Windup: Fixed a display error on the tooltip. Fixed a bug which was causing it to add less damage than intended. Fixed a bug with Command: Protect that was causing the shield particle to not display. Fixed several incorrect interactions with clones or unusual movement types.
V1.0.0.119: Added. *Command: Attack: Orianna commands her ball to fly towards target location, dealing damage to targets hit but doing reduced damage for each additional target hit. Her ball remains behind at that location afterwards. *Command: Dissonance: Orianna commands her ball to emit a magnetic pulse, dealing damage to units around it. Afterwards, the ball leaves a field behind for a few seconds that speeds up allies and slows enemies. *Command: Protect (Passive): The allied champion the ball is attached to gains bonus Armor and Magic Resistance. (Active): Orianna commands her ball to fly to and attach onto an allied champion, dealing damage to enemies it passes through and shielding the allied champion when it arrives. *Command: Shockwave (Ultimate): Orianna commands her ball to emit a shockwave after a short delay, flinging affected enemies in the vicinity into the air a set distance towards, and possibly over, her ball.
*Clockwork Windup (Innate): Orianna’s autoattacks deal additional magic damage every hit, subsequent attacks on the same target within a few seconds will add more damage per hit. This bonus stacks up to three times.
Health 385 (+79) Mana 250 (+50) Damage 44 (+2.6) Attack Speed 0.656 (+0.035) Range 550 Health Regen. 5.95 (+0.55) Mana Regen. 7.0 (+0.5) Armor 8 (+3) Magic Res. 30 Mov. Speed 300 Leash Range: 1125
Clockwork Windup (Innate): Orianna’s autoattacks deal an additional 10 / 18 / 26 / 34 / 42 / 50 (+0.15 per ability power) magic damage every hit. Additionally, attacking the same target within 4 seconds deals an extra 20% magic damage on the second hit, and 40% extra on the third and further hits.
Q - Command: Attack (Active): Orianna commands her ball to fly towards target location, dealing magic damage to all enemies that the ball passes through and that are on the destination area. However, the ball deals 10% less damage for each subsequent target hit down to a minimum of 40% damage done. Her ball remains behind at that location afterwards.
W - Command: Dissonance (Active): Orianna commands the Ball to emit an electric pulse around its current location, dealing magic damage to all units around it and leaving an electric field on the area for 3 seconds. The field speeds up allies and slows enemies that walk over it. This effect diminishes to normal over 2 seconds after leaving the area.
(Active): Orianna commands her ball to fly to and attach onto an allied champion, dealing damage to enemies it passes through and shielding the allied champion when it arrives for 4 seconds.
(Active): Orianna commands her ball to unleash a shockwave after a short delay, dealing magic damage to nearby enemies and flinging them into the air a set distance towards, and possibly over, her ball.
Just like masteries, the choice of runes is based mostly on personal preference. The only non-debatable slot at all are Marks, which should always be flat MPen.
For Seals you can opt between HP/level, MP5/level.
Your Glyphs can vary between AP/level or flat Mres for tough lanes.
On Quints you can choose between Flat AP, Movespeed, MPen.
Personally, I tend to run one page for lanes where I expect to crush my opponent easy and hard where I run Flat AP / MPen / AP/level / AP/level and one page for lanes where I expect to have a rough time which is Flat MPen / MPen / HP/level and flat Mres.
Experiment yourself, the above is only some basic guidance.
Flash is absolutely mandatory (now who could have guessed that..?), choices for the second slot can be Ignite, Ghost, Exhaust and Teleport. Don't forget the masteries if you choose among the last two, obviously.
Ignite is probably the most standard summoner for any AP mid, simply to add that little OMG I ALMOST HAD YOU-burst and obviously to counter heals in teamfights. - My perferred choice as well.
Exhaust is a little bit tricky. Unless most other casters you almost never have to be afraid of tanky dps being in your face, however the -35% damage on abilites from casters might come in handy vs stuff like Annie or Malz when that LETS BURST EACH OTHER AND SEE WHO WINS fight starts to roll. Especially weaker players on champs like those are so happy to move you into a position where you can't escape for sure (think "escaping" towards the river in mid lane, obviously it should be warded to avoid surprise buttsex), once both sides have to commit you drop the exhaust and happily exchange combos & take the kill while giving chase. Profit.
Teleport is also an obvious choice. Personally, I don't run it often because I find Ignite/Exhaust to allow me to win my lane and roll on to carry the game. If you're in love with Teleport, take it anyway.
Personally I prefer Boots in most cases simply because movespeed is awesome AP vs AP. You never want to get into the position that someone can get free combos at you. Keep in mind that Boots first also allows you to abuse your pretty strong autoattacks.
Champs you should always run boots against include TF, Kassadin and Malzahar. They're optional against Annie and Anivia.
Crystal+2 helps you get a quick Catalyst, however it also means you have to be very carefull with pushing lanes vs people who opened Boots, a little bit less sustain and dodging skillshots is a little bit harder. However, you have some more Mana for additional harass.
Q > W > E most of the time. The reduced cooldown is awesome on Q and W scales more with AP than with base damage. Maxing E in tough matchups where you get harassed a lot and don't expect to win it anyway (think LB) can make sense.
Froggen just explained his skilling order on orianna, QWQWERWW, R>W>Q>E. The reason he only keeps one/two points in Q regardless is because of last hitting minions at tower, sending the ball through the minions with level 1 Q is equivalent to autoattacking all the minions. If you know how much damage you need to do to the minions it helps with last hitting at tower immensely.
The only real options are a) Catalyst -> RoA -> Deathcap -> Void Staff b) Triple Dring -> Deathcap -> Void staff
Both accompanied by sorc boots (feel free to swap them for CD boots after you got your Void staff). The first build is probably the safer choice, however you're delaying your damage for quite some time. The 3xDring build is what e.g. Scarra recommends.
Other solid items you can consider: -Abyssal Scepter. Great vs sustained dps casters and low amounts of hard cc. -Zhonyas -Mejais. If you want to get it, your choice. The timing would be as soon as you smell that your rape is fuckeasy. Note that it's very easy to gain stacks on Orianna during teamfights, however you really, really want some solid AP items to start those teamfights. That's kinda the dilemma which keeps me from getting mejais on Ori in most of my games.
-Easy matchups include everyone that is weak during early levels, like Vladimir, Anivia, Karthus or champs that need to be close to creeps to lasthit. You rape stuff like GP or Jarv during early laning. Once they got their sustainability and/or tank items you're better off switching though vs those champs. You also have a rather easy time 1v1ing ranged AD champs, if they show up.
-Close matchups include everyone that has a Stun (Annie/TF) or can push lanes all day while getting cs and without being close (Malz or Heimer come to mind). The first matchups are all about dodging their stuns while hitting Q/W combos and the other type of matchups usually end in farm wars.
-Hard matchups include anyone who gets his sustain quickly like Udyr, WW or Cho. You simply don't have the burst to rape them asap or the continous damage to keep them from lolhealing it up. Those champs won't kill you early (first few levels you rape them), but they simply become unkillable too quickly for you.
Oriannas laning phase is all about easy lasthitting (your attack animation is totally awesome and you do some extra magic damage to creeps) and getting Q/W combos off on the enemy. To do this successfully you a) should get the ball into their creeps so that the Q distance is closer and b) know the minion they want to lasthit next. When you see them move in for the kill, make them decide between your ball in their face, or the creep kill. Make those combos count, you don't have the mana to miss a lot of them.
Basicly imagine your Ball as a mobile zone that is a little bit larger than the W AoE skill. Move that zone of yours however you want to and, hurrdurr, zone the enemy champion with it.
Make sure to abuse your autoattacks whenever you can (don't tank those creeps all day for it, duh!), you have the highest autoattack damage of any AP carry, especially if you get multiple hits off.
You have quite some trouble bursting people at your 6, so make sure they're getting low enough for the kill, OR get that jungler into the game. Someone like Fiddle is awesome, Warwick with his ult are 100% kills. You really, really want a jungle that has some sort of short disable, otherwise you have to rely on getting that crucial QRW combo off at the right time. Shit is just so much easier if you have that second to get the Q in properly or if you can simply E your jungler (WW is trollolol here) and RWQ the enemy.
*TEAMFIGHTS (FINALLY FUCK YES I WAITED THAT WHOLE FUCKING GUIDE FOR THIS PART CUZ THATS WHERE IT GETS FUN.) + Show Spoiler +
So, we heard that you your laning is solid but not totally insane, the enemy AP carry started blowing up some people here and there and you're like GOD I CANT BURST I CANT STUN IM USELESS.
Orianna carries teamfights like no other AP carry. By "carry" I don't mean make enemies explode left and right (that's a sideffect, durr) but you control the flow of positioning like a boss.
Oriannas teamfighting strength has some cornerstones, all of them have offensive and defensive sides to them.
a) QW. You Q in their face and W them. k, we had that already. You Q behind their escape path and trigger the mine if they run. You QW their melee dps so your team can position while they can't. You QW (ideal case) both yours and the enemy melee dps. You QW retreating allies (they get a little more out of W if you Q in front of them, instead of putting the ball on them with E), you QW your team chasing the enemies. Be creative.
b) EW. You shield an ally and give him that little extra speed he needs to get away. You can pull off absolutely hilarious shit by doing that to people who have some melee dps on top of them. It doesn't matter who it is, you slow the melee, you speed the ally at the same time. INSTANT PROFIT. You save overextending tanky dps all day, you let ranged carries kite all day. Having like an Ashe and Orianna on the same side means you can pretty much 2n5 the enemy team. You decide who chases who, exploit that at all costs. Keep in mind your E can be a lifesaver against those last ignite ticks and similar stuff as well.
Your ultimate. Jajajajajajajajaja!
Your ultimate, while I see so many Oriannas sucking at it, is the real deal. It is absoute rape in teamfights.
Rule #1 of using Oriannas ultimate: You shall not talk about how to use it properly to your enemies. Rule #2 of using Oriannas ultimate: YOU ARE NOT THE FUCKING INITIATOR. It is so easy to miss QR, even QWR is easy to miss because people can flash out before the ult really hits them. Don't fuck around pretending you're Annie and simply LOL ULT people to death, remember the part about finesse? Remember about your ball being impatient? Be patient with that ult of yours.
Your ultimate is a follow up. You follow up that Ashe ult, Ali/Udyr flash and you follow up someone who initated. It's that simple. Keep in mind you can E/R someone who dashes in (Jarv, Irelia or for the most fun, Ali who flashed into them etc.), just to QWR on top of them.
Rule #3 of using Oriannas ultimate: Your ult is an insane threat during a teamfight. Don't be eager to use it early. Yeah, you're great at following up an initiation with burst+soft cc. However, your ult becomes the strongest right after the battle started (unless you could have gotten all 5 of them with a follow up, durr, obvious). Let's say someone initiated, your team jumped in and you started E/W or Q/W combos. It is completely fine saving your ult for that moment your tanky dps gets on top of their carries. Here, after all that reading, ladies and gentlemen, we have the true strength of Orianna: Rape the shit out of someone without being close.
E that diver, RW the second he hits the carry and watch the ticking stop. If you want to be a real newb the diver will get out of your range, the ball will jump back to you and you RW on top of yourself while everyone laughs at you. Don't be that guy. Be aware of your range, especially when you gave the ball to someone.
You, as in "your presence during a teamfight" should be everywhere at once. E the diver, let him dive, RW the carry, run back so you get the ball again, Q those bitches that chase your ranged AD, W on top of them. You have to feel like being that command center that has it all under control. Help people escape, help people chase and while doing that, do damage. Even if you basicly got nuked out of a fight and roll around with 200 health, you can still do all the damage by solid Qs and Es.
What helps a lot is imagining your ball being a mine, and your goal is to put that mine into someones path. Always try to force the decision between walking around it (taking free damage from everyone) or eating a slow & damage nuke.
Tips & Tricks: (will be quite short atm 'cause I think I have it all in the actual guide) + Show Spoiler +
-You can position your ball over impassable terrain to hit people from weird angles. -Never facecheck, use dat damn ball. -Fun teammates include pretty much all tanky tps, especially though Udyr and GP for trollspeeds. Also you love Ashe for trollololol SLOWS OHMYGAWD, Alistar for FLASH E PULVERIZE R W HEATBUTT ENEMY TANKY AWAY and Singed for... well imagine a singed with a movespeed buff and a walking bomb on his head. 'nuff said. Also you like Sona. Did I say you synergize with movespeed buffs/debuffs yet?
Since you asked about Regrowth + Pot start, I think that mostly started because Hotshot and Elementz played around with it. I tried it to see how it worked because it's gold efficient and does give you good sustain, especially with your Catalyst, but I ended up dropping it and going Crystal + Pots because the 800 gold sets back your AP items and you lose burst when fights start.
On July 20 2011 13:39 Southlight wrote: TreeEsk runs triple DRing into Deathcap into Void every single game. Follows it with Morello's Evil Tome.
Dafuck. Added.
Do you know when he gets T1 boots (Sorc or CDR for T2?) / if he runs any weird runes by any chance?
On July 20 2011 13:57 Seiuchi wrote: Since you asked about Regrowth + Pot start, I think that mostly started because Hotshot and Elementz played around with it. I tried it to see how it worked because it's gold efficient and does give you good sustain, especially with your Catalyst, but I ended up dropping it and going Crystal + Pots because the 800 gold sets back your AP items and you lose burst when fights start.
Only possible implementation I see for that is getting it in lanes where you don't have to survive burst, but lots of regen does the trick. That would also mean skipping the catalyst to not fall behind in damage. Not sure if it's completely viable, but I can see it working in some cases.
Rule #2 of using Oriannas ultimate: YOU ARE NOT THE FUCKING INITIATOR. It is so easy to miss QR, even QWR is easy to miss because people can flash out before the ult really hits them. Don't fuck around pretending you're Annie and simply LOL ULT people to death, remember the part about finesse? Remember about your ball being impatient? Be patient with that ult of yours.
I don't really agree with this. Orianna is a solid initiator if you can catch people out of position because her ult is pretty much an AoE fling. The few seconds you get from R+W is often all you need for your team to converge on a target that is too far from their team or a squishy that is out of position. IMHO you should always be looking for OOP targets to initiate on as Orianna. Especially important in solo queue where you can't necessarily rely on teammates to initiate.
I second iaeuy here. While quick people can generally flash out of the ult, R is a superb initiation that bunches everybody together for your team to AoE them instantly and win the fight right there. The threat of Ult is good to have, but if you can nail 2+ important targets with an ult and your team is in position to follow up, for the love of god do it. It's definitely harder to justify for a single target, but it can still be worth it depending on the situation.
That said, your ball should already be in position to R. Trying to Q and THEN using RW is certainly going to fail against anybody that's not a slowpoke.
Ulting correctly is probably the hardest thing to learn as Orianna, as it is incredibly versatile. Actually, all of Orianna's kit is super versatile, which is why I find the champ so fun :D
Rule #2 of using Oriannas ultimate: YOU ARE NOT THE FUCKING INITIATOR. It is so easy to miss QR, even QWR is easy to miss because people can flash out before the ult really hits them. Don't fuck around pretending you're Annie and simply LOL ULT people to death, remember the part about finesse? Remember about your ball being impatient? Be patient with that ult of yours.
I don't really agree with this. Orianna is a solid initiator if you can catch people out of position because her ult is pretty much an AoE fling. The few seconds you get from R+W is often all you need for your team to converge on a target that is too far from their team or a squishy that is out of position. IMHO you should always be looking for OOP targets to initiate on as Orianna. Especially important in solo queue where you can't necessarily rely on teammates to initiate.
Yes, she is a solid initiator if -Your ball was already in position (as the guy below you pointed out), easiest to achieve during tower sieges -They don't flash out -They're horribly out of position
The way Orianna is an initiator is basicly her being a worse version of Malzahar or TF at that specific task. Your initiation is avoidable (flash, horrible thing if it happens), it is very hard to get off propyerly and, most important, if you somehow fuck it up you might have just lost your team the fight - and it's incredibly easy to do so, compared to e.g. Malz or TF when they try to punish someone being very out of position. They risk nothing in a scenario where you risk not hitting your biggest nuke.
I assume it is very obvious that if you see the enemy Ashe with 30mres walking over your ball that you and your 400 ap will just faceroll keys and kill her - however, that's an event that won't occur often if your enemies are not simply horribly bad.
On July 20 2011 19:19 starfries wrote: Supposedly her leash range is 1125, might be worth knowing for completeness's sake. Also does anyone know what she says when she uses command:attack?
On July 20 2011 13:39 Southlight wrote: TreeEsk runs triple DRing into Deathcap into Void every single game. Follows it with Morello's Evil Tome.
Decent path, but how does that help with early-mid game mana problems? Once Morello's is up you're pretty much good, but before that I'm assuming just hog blue?
Philosopher's stone into Elaisa's Miracle is just as good as a catalyst, and costs less. Sure you can't build it into RoA, but I find Miracle -> Haunting Guise to be fine in the early game. With everybody building the Merc Treads the extra Magic Pen from the mask and Sorc shoes gets you back to true damage against most champions until they get a Negatron. 20 mana per 5 gives more mana over 10 minutes than 10 levels of Catalyst percs.
Also what is the communities thoughts on taking E at level one? If you start E and Heath Pendant you can contribute some shields to a level one team fight, and you're not really going to have damage to Q some one to death until you get two levels of W. In level one team fights its easy to hit people with auto attacks and the shield, while giving passive armour bonus. E at level on has been the difference between first blood and being first blooded more than once.
TL;DR Skill order EQWWQRQWQQWRWEEREE <- Allows for maximum mana efficiency as 3 levels of W is the sweet spot of damage while still having <100 mana cost. Buy order Philosopher's - Boots one - Elisa's - Sorc Shoes to situational items.
Additional Tip for using Q is even if you're out of position and can't QW on top of an enemy it is possible to just make the ball pass through some one who's standing a mile away. Q is on a much shorter cooldown than your other skills, and you can still auto attack E their retaliation, W after them Q for the kill. Abuse this.
how is her ult working exactly? whenever i use it people end up being more scattered than before.
Does it move everyone a certain distance in direction of the ball? Does it move everyone the same distance towards the ball they are currently away from it? Does it do something else?
On July 21 2011 05:16 LaNague wrote: how is her ult working exactly? whenever i use it people end up being more scattered than before.
Does it move everyone a certain distance in direction of the ball? Does it move everyone the same distance towards the ball they are currently away from it? Does it do something else?
It moves people towards the ball a set distance. So say it moves people 200 units. That means someone exactly 200 units away from the ball will end up exactly on the ball, while someone 100 units away from the ball will end up 100 units away from teh ball the opposite direction.
On July 21 2011 05:16 LaNague wrote: how is her ult working exactly? whenever i use it people end up being more scattered than before.
Does it move everyone a certain distance in direction of the ball? Does it move everyone the same distance towards the ball they are currently away from it? Does it do something else?
Everybody hit moves the radius of the range tword the ball. This can lead to guys becoming scattered or grouped together depending upon the positioning.
For instance, If you have 3 people directly on the ball your nuke will be QWRQ, if there is 3 guys around the edges of its range the nuke becomes RWQ.
On July 20 2011 22:53 Sabin010 wrote: Philosopher's stone into Elaisa's Miracle is just as good as a catalyst, and costs less. Sure you can't build it into RoA, but I find Miracle -> Haunting Guise to be fine in the early game. With everybody building the Merc Treads the extra Magic Pen from the mask and Sorc shoes gets you back to true damage against most champions until they get a Negatron. 20 mana per 5 gives more mana over 10 minutes than 10 levels of Catalyst percs.
Also what is the communities thoughts on taking E at level one? If you start E and Heath Pendant you can contribute some shields to a level one team fight, and you're not really going to have damage to Q some one to death until you get two levels of W. In level one team fights its easy to hit people with auto attacks and the shield, while giving passive armour bonus. E at level on has been the difference between first blood and being first blooded more than once.
I've seen hotshot go E first and rush philo stone when she was first released, but I don't think it's that great. Getting E first means you can't start zoning until level 3, while normally you'd be able to QW them at level 2 and basically sets your damage behind by 1 level. Also starting pendant means you go oom really quickly, you generally run out of mana before you run out of health and I think sapphire + 2 pots will have given you more health by your first back than pendant. Overall it's a really defensive build that's only useful if you don't think you can win lane and just want to farm, and considering Ori wins almost every lane it's not necessary.
Also imo she really needs the mana pool from RoA during longer teamfights. If you don't have this problem then the Drings into deathcap is probably a better build.
Haunting guise is sort of crappy since it delays your deathcap, and it's really only useful on casters like old Annie who want to abuse their strong midgame but have bad AP ratios and don't do anything lategame. Ori's AP ratios don't look that great, but when you consider that she has 4 AOE damage skills, 3 on low cooldowns, they are really quite good so you want that deathcap asap.
I feel the builds are more match-up and style dependent. For example against an Annie, you would need the Hp and sustain from Cata->RoA against her burst and harass. Against a TF it's possible to just go Dorans->Deathcap since he doesn't dominate the lane as much.
The Dorans build is better if you play aggressive in lane IMO. You'll see people like TreeEskimo and Reginald do this a lot (play aggressive, push the lane really fast with all their skills and then back for mana/hp and a quick buy). Usually if you back at these timings you'll only end up with 500-600 gold so a dorans+pot/ward makes more sense than parts of catalyst+pot/ward.
On July 21 2011 05:50 ArC_man wrote: I feel the builds are more match-up and style dependent. For example against an Annie, you would need the Hp and sustain from Cata->RoA against her burst and harass. Against a TF it's possible to just go Dorans->Deathcap since he doesn't dominate the lane as much.
The Dorans build is better if you play aggressive in lane IMO. You'll see people like TreeEskimo and Reginald do this a lot (play aggressive, push the lane really fast with all their skills and then back for mana/hp and a quick buy). Usually if you back at these timings you'll only end up with 500-600 gold so a dorans+pot/ward makes more sense than parts of catalyst+pot/ward.
That makes quite a bit of sense. Sounds like my playstyle, I'll give this a shot tonight.
I dunno about the "NO DRING EVER" thing. I have found that the dring path, while being low on mana at first, pretty much requries a back at 800 or so gold anyway, since you have no sustain, so you can pick up boots and a second ring and never be out of mana.
Played her a bunch of times last night, opening boots+3, going triple D-ring into Deathcap. Damn, I will say for sure that this style has its merits if you like to play aggressive as I do. I laned against a Vlad, Gragas, and Malzahar, and even with the multiple DRings I was losing the lanes against Malzahar and Vlad, because I essentially was required to spam QW almost 100% of the time to keep them off me.
Orianna really needs the second blue from your jungler, luckily I was duo queuing with a friend. As soon as I got the blue, I was winning the lanes really really hard. Dual DRings isn't enough to stay good on mana unless you are willing to play really passive - my style is based on continually harassing with QW and winning the lane by forcing the other player to be passive.
The two DRings really help you last hit or push lanes that are hard to push, since one QW lets you kill all the caster minions in a wave, and cleaning up the melee ones is simple after that.
On July 21 2011 23:13 Two_DoWn wrote: I dunno about the "NO DRING EVER" thing. I have found that the dring path, while being low on mana at first, pretty much requries a back at 800 or so gold anyway, since you have no sustain, so you can pick up boots and a second ring and never be out of mana.
Yeah, I've edited the part on opening items since it seems some people are doing really well with it.
Personally I tried it 2-3 times yesterday and got horribly owned, mostly due to the fact that you can't spam spells as hard. To me it kinda feels similar to not getting a Manamune on Corki - it has insane short-term benefits but it hurts your farming and prolonged teamfights; - which are basicly two of Oriannas strengths.
I probably would have to see some Vods from Tree / Reginald about how they manage their mana. Sitting on like 925 mana feels so horribly borderline to me.
On July 21 2011 23:13 Two_DoWn wrote: I dunno about the "NO DRING EVER" thing. I have found that the dring path, while being low on mana at first, pretty much requries a back at 800 or so gold anyway, since you have no sustain, so you can pick up boots and a second ring and never be out of mana.
Yeah, I've edited the part on opening items since it seems some people are doing really well with it.
Personally I tried it 2-3 times yesterday and got horribly owned, mostly due to the fact that you can't spam spells as hard. To me it kinda feels similar to not getting a Manamune on Corki - it has insane short-term benefits but it hurts your farming and prolonged teamfights; - which are basicly two of Oriannas strengths.
I probably would have to see some Vods from Tree / Reginald about how they manage their mana. Sitting on like 925 mana feels so horribly borderline to me.
Just hog blue. Normally the AP caster takes the third blue, just ask for the second one as well. I noticed that I started rolling over lanes as soon as I got blue with the 3 DRing + Deathcap build.
The whole "Just hog blue" is simply not reliable enough and it's the reason why I would not dismiss tear as an item. Lose buffcontrol / lose that blue 1-2 times in a bad spot and you're completely useless after your initial burst. Orianna is more similar to Malz, Swain or Anivia (aka sustained dps) than she is to Annie.
And, actually even with blue 925 initial mana isn't that much for prolonged teamfights. I was a little bit like wtf when I ran oom while having blue buff up in one fight.
I'd really, really only recommend those builds without any mana items for very few people - I for sure am not one of them. The second you lose dominance with those builds (which basicly means one stupid death) you're at a huge disadvantage.
I wouldn't discount getting a tear after you have 3drings dcap, if you are not able to hold onto blue buff for whatever reason. It's sufficiently cheap that it'll help you cope without delaying your end items too badly. However, I'd personally get cata in preparation for bveil and kill their blue buff carrier >.>
Also, 3dring actually gives more mana sustain than catalyst (180 mana per minute vs 200 mana per level up), what you don't have is the safety buffer of 325 flat mana that cata gives. All that means is that you should aim to keep your mana near (but not at) the limit so you can go balls out if you need to.
If you know you'll be in a difficult lane, it may be worth it to stay in the fountain for an extra couple of seconds to buy a 4th potion (with the boots opening). Cons are you won't be able to pull for your jungler (so top/bottom or your support will need to pull) and you will most likely miss the first creep (I can usually get into XP range but not in time for the last hit).
On July 21 2011 23:13 Two_DoWn wrote: I dunno about the "NO DRING EVER" thing. I have found that the dring path, while being low on mana at first, pretty much requries a back at 800 or so gold anyway, since you have no sustain, so you can pick up boots and a second ring and never be out of mana.
Yeah, I've edited the part on opening items since it seems some people are doing really well with it.
Personally I tried it 2-3 times yesterday and got horribly owned, mostly due to the fact that you can't spam spells as hard. To me it kinda feels similar to not getting a Manamune on Corki - it has insane short-term benefits but it hurts your farming and prolonged teamfights; - which are basicly two of Oriannas strengths.
I probably would have to see some Vods from Tree / Reginald about how they manage their mana. Sitting on like 925 mana feels so horribly borderline to me.
Just hog blue. Normally the AP caster takes the third blue, just ask for the second one as well. I noticed that I started rolling over lanes as soon as I got blue with the 3 DRing + Deathcap build.
tbh it doesn't matter what your build is, you roll lanes as long as you have mana and enough levels to make your W hurt. That's another reason I don't really like the D ring build, because she destroys people in lane even with a more passive item like catalyst, and catalyst builds into nice stuff later on.
i really like the cata on her, it gives her some heal, mana regen, hp against brust and builds into the awesome RoA. i run full ap runes and her W hurts like hell anyways, i never felt the need for very early ap items.
Played Drings into Deathcap a whole bunch more tonight - it really needs blue buff to succeed. As soon as we lost our blue because of a bad teamfight, I felt quite useless until I got it back - I emptied the mana out pretty quickly. I think going Morello's Evil Tome might be decent after a Dring-Deathcap opening, for the AP, mana per 5, and cooldown reduction.
I start Energy Crystal>Tear>Boots 1>Cata>Dring>Deathcap>Boots 2>AA and end up with over 400 AP which seems pretty ridiculous to me! I will pick up Banshees shortly after AA once she reaches that much ap there is certainly no stopping her. Carried a game 12/4 last night with this build
On July 22 2011 21:09 Prisoner wrote: I start Energy Crystal>Tear>Boots 1>Cata>Dring>Deathcap>Boots 2>AA and end up with over 400 AP which seems pretty ridiculous to me! I will pick up Banshees shortly after AA once she reaches that much ap there is certainly no stopping her. Carried a game 12/4 last night with this build
Cata > Tear. Even if you're getting both (and you shouldn't need both unless you're not getting blue buffs, getting Cata levelups from levels 6-10 is way stronger than getting a few more Tear stacks.
To all the Dring -> Deathcap rushers, especially those beyong 1800 elo: wtf do you do in teamfights when your blue buff is down? QRW, another round of EW or QW and then bluepill back cause you ran oom?
lvl 18 mana pool: 1150 Spamming all spells as soon as they are up: 0 sec: QWER: 380 (mana used total) 4 sec: Q: 440 8 sec: Q: 500 9 sec: WE: 670 12 sec: Q: 730 16 sec: Q: 790 18 sec: WE: 960 20 sec: Q: 1020 24 sec: Q: 1080 27 sec: E: 1140
If you had no regen, you'd be oom here. But 27 sec have passed. 3 DRings + 3/3 Meditation + natural regen gives you 30 MP5. So after 27 sec you have regained 165 mana, so you now have 175 mana left over.
27 sec: W: 110 28 sec: Q: 170
Now you're officially oom. After 30 seconds of constantly spamming every single of your abilities.
Sure at some levels you use a bigger percentage of your max mana for each cast, I'd guess lvl 9 would be the worst (11 and 16 are not worse than others as the ult lvl up only increases the cost by as much as your max mana increases and you only cast your ult once per fight). But then again you typically don't spam all your abilites as soon as they are available either.
On July 22 2011 23:11 spinesheath wrote: (quoting you looked stupid, we all can see your post anyway =P)
You are assuming a) No CDR and b) full mana pool in the first place.
Without mana items a single QW combo to farm a creepwave already costs you a whooping 15% of your total mana pool. Throw in an EW to shrug off a poke or get better positioning and you're already in major mana trouble since you already blew 1/3rd of your total mana. Since farming a lot quickly and buffing her team here and there are huge strenths of Orianna, I feel that those builds completely reduce her to something she isn't by default: A pure AP burst caster.
Don't know really, I keep trying the DRing -> Deathcap build and I keep feeling like a worse version than Annie for the above reasons.
Edit: Actually, let me change my original question.. what is your mindset when playing Drings -> Deathcap builds? Is it "I will get off 1-2 bursts and do enough damage so my team clean up."?
That might explain why I'm failing so hard with it, 'cause mine is more like "Get the maximum out of buffs/debuffs on everyone, whenever possible while nuking people if possible." - I think I actually focus more on helping my tanky dps shred their targets than to target people myself.
I don't think you get how much 30 seconds for constant spam off max mana is. For example: Malzahar goes oom after 18 seconds without bonus mana. Anivia goes oom after 8 seconds without bonus mana.
Simply said: Orianna's mana costs are low compared to her base mana.
On July 22 2011 21:28 TheYango wrote: Cata > Tear. Even if you're getting both (and you shouldn't need both unless you're not getting blue buffs, getting Cata levelups from levels 6-10 is way stronger than getting a few more Tear stacks.
Ill try cata first then next time I will still get tear for AA later on.
r.Evo: Yes, what you wrote is correct. 3dring to dcap gives you about 300ap with standard caster runepage (scaling aps and stuff), which at that point of the game is huge buttloads of AoE damage. Your mindset is to catch as many high priority targets as you can with R, then combo them and win the teamfight.
You can easily, easily, EASILY kill the bot laners with a burst rotation + ignite, and leave either solo / jungler with about 30%-50% hp. You need to treat your ult like Annie, waiting for a great opening and blowing them all up. I only use my skills defensively like you mention when it's obvious we lost the teamfight and we need to cut down our losses, or in small skirmishes.
I might upload a replay later today, although I only have replays with cata opening...my play-style is pretty much the same tho.
I play alright save for a super herp derp moment where I try to bait arrow and zhonyas it and instead end up shielding myself out of habit. But basically it's just to show the playstyle of the build path.
lol nice flash ganks on bottom. Although you'd think they would start warding the tri bush after the first one. One thing I noticed that you do differently is that you had deathcap, or at least the components, before buying boots 2, so I'll try that out.
edit: works as advertised :|
also i'd love to see more replays in general, could be a nice addition to the op
Yeah, I started trying to think I'm Annie and not the spambot I started to love Orianna for - working since then. Personally right now I'm going for RoA versions when I expect to be exposed to burst a lot, the Deathcap versions any other time.
Add some general information about the replay (short 2-3 sentence comment, elo, server etc.) and I'll add it in the OP.
im just starting out with orianna and im doing terrible with her. i think last two games ive combined for 1/10/20 or something along that stat line. ive been starting philostone, but i think im gonna just rush tears until im much more comfortable with her abilities
On July 24 2011 19:07 starfries wrote: lol nice flash ganks on bottom. Although you'd think they would start warding the tri bush after the first one. One thing I noticed that you do differently is that you had deathcap, or at least the components, before buying boots 2, so I'll try that out.
edit: works as advertised :|
also i'd love to see more replays in general, could be a nice addition to the op
Heh thanks, I was actually purposely hunting for those opportunities because I've been playing too passive lately. I often finish dcap before finishing boots 2, because if my hunch is correct, it gives the most damage come midgame. I'll do the actual math later today tho, I'm curious now.
I'll look through my replays and see if there's another good one.
On July 25 2011 03:29 r.Evo wrote: Yeah, I started trying to think I'm Annie and not the spambot I started to love Orianna for - working since then. Personally right now I'm going for RoA versions when I expect to be exposed to burst a lot, the Deathcap versions any other time.
Add some general information about the replay (short 2-3 sentence comment, elo, server etc.) and I'll add it in the OP.
1850~ US Server game, blue side, using the dring stack into dcap build path. Went mid-lane vs ???*, ganked bottom lane a few times and overall had some good teamfights with only 1 or 2 big mistakes.
*please confirm for me, I don't remember and can't check atm
On July 28 2011 03:59 Simple wrote: im just starting out with orianna and im doing terrible with her. i think last two games ive combined for 1/10/20 or something along that stat line. ive been starting philostone, but i think im gonna just rush tears until im much more comfortable with her abilities
Start mana crystal + pots into catalyst if you're just starting out, and just focus on farming safely by applying pressure with your skills. You shouldn't die much as Orianna, abuse your range and the fact that your Ult is such a strong threat in teamfights. Tear will just make you easy to kill and easy to ignore.
Learning exactly when your ball teleports back to you is apparently a really good skill to have.
Every now and then I look like a total tard cause I'll try to ult people while fleeing and whoops, the ball teleported right before I clicked it and i miss everyone.
Or I shield myself but die before the ball gets to me but if I'd just walked like another 2 steps and THEN shielded me I'd have lived because it would have warped and been instant. Derp.
On July 28 2011 08:24 Haemonculus wrote: Learning exactly when your ball teleports back to you is apparently a really good skill to have.
Every now and then I look like a total tard cause I'll try to ult people while fleeing and whoops, the ball teleported right before I clicked it and i miss everyone.
Or I shield myself but die before the ball gets to me but if I'd just walked like another 2 steps and THEN shielded me I'd have lived because it would have warped and been instant. Derp.
Added your replay, not sure on the recorder thing though. Can someone confirm/deny it? Don't have access to it on this comp.
@Everyone: Feel free to submit replays with the format posted in the OP if you feel you had a particular well-played Orianna game. Please make sure to have your links sorted out, I'm not gonna proofwatch/reupload unless it seems to become necessary.
On July 31 2011 06:00 NeoIllusions wrote: Replays from previous patches are fubar'ed. They don't work. Replays recorded on this current patch will still work.
Not sure what Riot did to the latest patch but LoL Replays fucks up at loading screen.
Riot won't bother keeping the game compatible with a 3rd party replay program when they are working on their own replay system. Small unrelated changes to the LoL executable can change the memory layout of the game and mess up some hooks LoLreplay uses etc.
Basicly matchups vs champs with targeted skillshots (Annie, Ryze, to some extent Malz and Kassadin) are all simillar.
a) Punish them lasthitting with autoattacks with QW combos. b) Learn to read when they're about to attack you. Ideal case they move close for the skillshot, you QW them to force the decision between ignoring it and trading blows (they lose) or going back and trying to dodge your Q (they lose 50% of the time). Basicly you're vulnerable whenever you missed a Q, your ball is too far from them or, worst case, you missed a W. Ideal case you QW them and retreat from their skillshot cause of the slow.
On August 01 2011 03:13 LaNague wrote: how do i lane her vs ryze?
his range is similar to mine, but its instant dmg and no delayed skillshot, last game he forced me to back 2 times.
Mid or top?
Ryze's skills are around 675~ iirc, vs your 1k~ range. If you're mid, there's no way he should be able to deny or fight you unless you let him. If top, the moment he controls bush he'll zone you, so make sure you don't push the lane. Don't even try to auto him or you'll eat a spell rotation.
I don't know if this is a bug but if you use Q at the same spot where your ball already is, it just returns to you but graphically disappears. You also don't get the Q damage. I tried to Ult Q W and it was a disaster.
She was OP from the very release, just she requires some more finesse than most other AP casters to really shine, that's why she was under the rader for such a long time (unless you count like jiji who went something retarded like 30-2 in the first 2 weeks with her).
tbh, even though she get's banned frequently around my elo (EU West, 1700ish), the people who do actually play her suck pretty bad. I keep counterpicking her with mostly Malz and Annie and it works quite well for me.
On August 04 2011 22:08 r.Evo wrote: She was OP from the very release, just she requires some more finesse than most other AP casters to really shine, that's why she was under the rader for such a long time (unless you count like jiji who went something retarded like 30-2 in the first 2 weeks with her).
tbh, even though she get's banned frequently around my elo (EU West, 1700ish), the people who do actually play her suck pretty bad. I keep counterpicking her with mostly Malz and Annie and it works quite well for me.
Annie is less a counterpick than an incredibly strong burst trader, which works against 90% of the heros in this game. I can't pick orianna much in ranked these days since I'm still working my way out of scrub land ~1200, and idiots fp stuff like sivir and veigar in my games.
Still real hero, one of the hugest bursts in the game, especially considering a lot of it is AoE like annie instead of single target like malz.
On August 04 2011 22:08 r.Evo wrote: She was OP from the very release, just she requires some more finesse than most other AP casters to really shine, that's why she was under the rader for such a long time (unless you count like jiji who went something retarded like 30-2 in the first 2 weeks with her).
tbh, even though she get's banned frequently around my elo (EU West, 1700ish), the people who do actually play her suck pretty bad. I keep counterpicking her with mostly Malz and Annie and it works quite well for me.
I don't see how Malz works as a counterpick unless the Ori's just bad at playing her, I've never had a problem beating him with poke. Annie's a more equal interaction, but really the best mage to pick against her is Brand since he has a ton of range as well.
It's simply an issue of most Oriannas just plain sucking. At least that's how it feels to me. Basicly I feel that I know her good enough to exploit mistakes in most peoples game quickly.
Stuff I see most Oriannas fail at around my level: -Bad usage of Q. e.g. they move the ball to a bad position, get zoned while Q is on CD, then reposition it again to a totally predicable position 'cause they panic a little and boom - you suddenly got lane control. (that's where Malz actually shines more than Annie cause of the threat of QE and better mana-management than Annie)
-They don't abuse autoattacks.
-They try to QW offensively when they'd be much better off to simply counter harass with their combo (e.g. QW when Malz moves up to E)
-They allow themselves to run oom without having the lane pushed and going b. I see them quite often oom when the lane is in the middle, then they somehow refuse to b till their jungle shows up and just get wtfpwnd in the meantime.
Actually I think it all comes down to bad ball-control and therefore premature ejaculation(lawl). They're too eager to get that QW combo in and forget that they're the most pathetic and helpless AP carry ever when it's on cooldown.
The second they become predictive with their Q you can just dodge it and rape em.
Hi guys! I was wondering, what's you favorite opening with Ori?
I used to do mana stone 2 pots into cata then RoA, but I'm tempted to try the boots 3 pots into double dorans rings straight to Rabadon. Wouldn't you run oom quite fast with a boots opening? Even zoning only with Q, I'm quite short on mana early with my mana stone :/
On September 03 2011 20:33 mr_tolkien wrote: Hi guys! I was wondering, what's you favorite opening with Ori?
I used to do mana stone 2 pots into cata then RoA, but I'm tempted to try the boots 3 pots into double dorans rings straight to Rabadon. Wouldn't you run oom quite fast with a boots opening? Even zoning only with Q, I'm quite short on mana early with my mana stone :/
Thx for the feedback!
As great as she is at zoning, I usually only last hit until about levels 5-7, at which point I procede to zone/harrass/kill, recall, buy catalyst and come back to mid and then with catalyst you can really zone and control mid. But thats just me. I also start with mana crystal 75% of the time (and shoes the other 25%).
The utility from E/W is usually good enough to not need boots. Looking after your mana pool is really important with Orianna though...
Also, this is just me personally. :-) I don't really like dorans rings... Annie/anivia/orianna I go catalyst. Brand i go dorans into rabadons..
If I lane against something that could give me trouble like Brand, I'll open chalice into dorans or 2 unless I get early kills, then I just go for early cata.
Most of the time it's boots +3 into cata though. Her autoattacks are STRONG during lanephase, abuse them.
Since there's a free week of Orianna, I've played with her a bit and got to thinking. Why are there no proper AP/AS builds up on Leaguecraft? The passive seems to be so good for that.
Something like this:
Rod of Ages Sorcerer's Shoes Nashor's Tooth Malady Rylai's Crystal Scepter Rabadon's Deathcap
I guess it's mostly because orianna's strength used to be her bugger off range with the ball, meaning you basically never got to AA if you were playing safe distances in a team fight. Perhaps it could work now. I think the malady+tooth combo is one of the best going if you can find characters who can synergise and use the stats. I personally love it on ezreal after a quick rageblade. Makes him such an incredible bursty DPS.
So I neglected looking in here for a while and I'm sorry for bursting some bubbles already. Please keep your posts on topic and on a reasonable competetive level.
On September 03 2011 20:33 mr_tolkien wrote: Hi guys! I was wondering, what's you favorite opening with Ori?
I used to do mana stone 2 pots into cata then RoA, but I'm tempted to try the boots 3 pots into double dorans rings straight to Rabadon. Wouldn't you run oom quite fast with a boots opening? Even zoning only with Q, I'm quite short on mana early with my mana stone :/
Thx for the feedback!
Opening Crystal means you get crushed by any strong AP mid starting with boots. Stuff like Annie/Ryze/Malz and even Brand can zone you to hell and back. Don't do it. (I'm experimenting with MS quints atm and I like them a lot. Can see Dring/Crystal opening working with those.)
If you have trouble running oom with the DRing/Cap stuff, spam less. It's that simple. If you didn't make the enemy lose cs/harass him with a spell, the spell was wrong in the first place.
Farm with autos, not with spells unless you're forced to.
On September 03 2011 22:46 arthur wrote: As great as she is at zoning, I usually only last hit until about levels 5-7, at which point I procede to zone/harrass/kill, recall, buy catalyst and come back to mid and then with catalyst you can really zone and control mid. But thats just me. I also start with mana crystal 75% of the time (and shoes the other 25%).
The utility from E/W is usually good enough to not need boots. Looking after your mana pool is really important with Orianna though...
Also, this is just me personally. :-) I don't really like dorans rings... Annie/anivia/orianna I go catalyst. Brand i go dorans into rabadons..
You get DRings -> Cap whenever you can get away with it in lane. It's the strongest way to maximize your midgame damage.
You get Catalyst vs people who can instagib you (e.g. Annie) or when you're really having trouble in lane (aka need the healthproc to catch up).
Once again, boots or not is depending on your/the enemies runes (MS quints?) and starting items. If I e.g. see someone starting Dring I'd rather get a Crystal and aim for Cata since I won't need my own boots.
Boot start on Orianna is mostly to defend against boot openings, not so much to punish non-boot openings.
On September 04 2011 00:10 daemir wrote: If I lane against something that could give me trouble like Brand, I'll open chalice into dorans or 2 unless I get early kills, then I just go for early cata.
Most of the time it's boots +3 into cata though. Her autoattacks are STRONG during lanephase, abuse them.
The only reason to ever get chalice is if you a) get harassed a lot and b) need your mana badly to hold lane.
If those two come together you're doing it wrong. If you have manatrouble catalyst or Dring stack help more. You don't get any sustain from Chalice unlike someone who's WW or Irelia, nor do you synergize with the stats like Galio.
tl;dr: Chalice is bad, mhmkay?
On September 21 2011 19:14 Novalisk wrote: Since there's a free week of Orianna, I've played with her a bit and got to thinking. Why are there no proper AP/AS builds up on Leaguecraft? The passive seems to be so good for that.
Something like this:
Rod of Ages Sorcerer's Shoes Nashor's Tooth Malady Rylai's Crystal Scepter Rabadon's Deathcap
9/21/0
Generic caster runes(AP,MP,MR)
Which autoattacking steroids do you plan on using? Oh, your passive? Play vayne or kog.
Orianna as a ranged carry does nothing what a "real" ranged carry can't do. In fact, it's so bad that not even the newbs on Leagucraft try to make guides for it.
On September 22 2011 02:34 r.Evo wrote: You get DRings -> Cap whenever you can get away with it in lane. It's the strongest way to maximize your midgame damage.
You get Catalyst vs people who can instagib you (e.g. Annie) or when you're really having trouble in lane (aka need the healthproc to catch up).
I know I'm sort of late to the party on the Rod vs. DRing stack discussion but...
Honestly, I feel like getting Rod of Ages is the AP equivalent of going Warmogs->Atmas. You sacrifice having midgame damage, and try to ride your high base damage/utility until you have your Deathcap, at which point you make up your weaker midgame presence through the sheer cost-efficiency of fully charged Rod + Deathcap. It's situational but when you can reliably expect to finish Rod and get to DCap fast enough without giving up too much in the midgame, I think Rod is the right choice.
On September 22 2011 02:34 r.Evo wrote: Which autoattacking steroids do you plan on using? Oh, your passive? Play vayne or kog.
Orianna as a ranged carry does nothing what a "real" ranged carry can't do. In fact, it's so bad that not even the newbs on Leagucraft try to make guides for it.
It's even worse now that her AA range got nerfed to 500.
On September 22 2011 02:34 r.Evo wrote: Which autoattacking steroids do you plan on using? Oh, your passive? Play vayne or kog.
Orianna as a ranged carry does nothing what a "real" ranged carry can't do. In fact, it's so bad that not even the newbs on Leagucraft try to make guides for it.
It's even worse now that her AA range got nerfed to 500.
I wasn't thinking of being a ranged carry or anything, just adding Nashor's and Malady to make good use of her passive, while still having good survivability and nuking. Nashor's is a good caster item anyway, and Malady is a relatively cheap item which has perfect synergy with her passive.
On September 22 2011 02:34 r.Evo wrote: Which autoattacking steroids do you plan on using? Oh, your passive? Play vayne or kog.
Orianna as a ranged carry does nothing what a "real" ranged carry can't do. In fact, it's so bad that not even the newbs on Leagucraft try to make guides for it.
It's even worse now that her AA range got nerfed to 500.
I wasn't thinking of being a ranged carry or anything, just adding Nashor's and Malady to make good use of her passive, while still having good survivability and nuking. Nashor's is a good caster item anyway, and Malady is a relatively cheap item which has perfect synergy with her passive.
At this point, if you're within 500 range of someone in a teamfight that's actually worth autoattacking, you should pretty much die for it. Her passive is nice for her laning, and gives a bit of extra damage when you're cleaning up the tail end of a teamfight, but it's absolutely not worth itemizing for.
Also, for the 10,000th time, CDR (from Nashor's) is worthless for AP casters to buy because of the existence of blue buff.
On September 22 2011 02:34 r.Evo wrote: Which autoattacking steroids do you plan on using? Oh, your passive? Play vayne or kog.
Orianna as a ranged carry does nothing what a "real" ranged carry can't do. In fact, it's so bad that not even the newbs on Leagucraft try to make guides for it.
It's even worse now that her AA range got nerfed to 500.
I wasn't thinking of being a ranged carry or anything, just adding Nashor's and Malady to make good use of her passive, while still having good survivability and nuking. Nashor's is a good caster item anyway, and Malady is a relatively cheap item which has perfect synergy with her passive.
Wasn't the greatest idea before her range was nerfed (some Orianna did this in a game that would have been an easy win if they went a more normal build), I can't envision this being at all worth it now. Nashor's is a fairly subpar item if you're not using the attack speed. Ioninan boots and blue buff max out your cooldown reduction already, and even if skip Ionian boots, Morello's Evil Tome is cheaper and gives better stats in AP and mana regen at the cost of 5% cooldown reduction (which doesn't matter if you have blue buff).
And you're probably not autoattacking during team fights all that often.
So yeah, I picked up Ori on a suggestion and she's honestly a blast. I'm sure she was much better when her Q range was 900, but I've always felt safe and like the whole AP carry/support style that she has.
I don't know how up to date the OP here is, though. I've been going Sapphire 2pot > Catalyst > Boots > RoA > Deathcap > Void, with maybe a Rylai if I'm getting focused a lot.
I also find that I can't really 1v1 anything. Like, at all. Is this just me not playing right, or am I supposed to always be with a group?
On October 21 2011 05:05 Requizen wrote: So yeah, I picked up Ori on a suggestion and she's honestly a blast. I'm sure she was much better when her Q range was 900, but I've always felt safe and like the whole AP carry/support style that she has.
I don't know how up to date the OP here is, though. I've been going Sapphire 2pot > Catalyst > Boots > RoA > Deathcap > Void, with maybe a Rylai if I'm getting focused a lot.
I also find that I can't really 1v1 anything. Like, at all. Is this just me not playing right, or am I supposed to always be with a group?
if your getting focused a lot i would go for zonya/abyssal/banshees/aegis/GA or FH over rylais
edit: id also look at your positioning. ori is kind of hard to focus tbh...or should be.
when i played orianna apart from the slight bonus of her aoe dragging to the ball for some control she just felt like a super 'standard' ap character. the ball mechanic is fun and all but not really that useful. without any real cc abilities i felt like an annie with like 20% less damage. should i give her a second try or is she a love it or hate it hero? :<
On October 21 2011 10:10 turdburgler wrote: when i played orianna apart from the slight bonus of her aoe dragging to the ball for some control she just felt like a super 'standard' ap character. the ball mechanic is fun and all but not really that useful. without any real cc abilities i felt like an annie with like 20% less damage. should i give her a second try or is she a love it or hate it hero? :<
If you feel like annie with less damage, you're probably trying to play her the wrong way. Obviously Orianna is not as strong as an initiator and does not have quite as much burst in one rotation, but she has huge range (can reliably hit important targets while still being safe) and a ton of utility (annie cant kite entire teams, poke, or give a singed 550 ms :D) with her W and shield. Also her R used correctly is as game changing as a well placed tibbers.
It took me a second try with orianna to get the hang of her... you have to use your ball for zone control, and play a support role. You put out a lot of damage as a support role... but you need to have that mentality until you start to see openings you can jump on. Remember to use the shield to move the ball around too.
Orianna is fun cos she's one of the best champs for actually using all your starcraft apms and you really ahve to think about where your ball is and where it'll be if you use your skills. Keeping your ball in the right place is as important as doing the damage.
Since I picked her up like a month ago, she has made her way to pretty much my main champion. She is so fun to play and feels really strong. I really feel she is highly underrated right now. She can be a bit tough to play properly (initially I always 'lost' my ball in teamfights not knowing where it is, because I didn't manage to pay attention to everything at once) so I guess that factors into it. I didn't play league yet at her release, so I never experienced her when she was perma ban status. Her not being as strong as before factors into her being unpopular too.
Makes me sad that the only few times I played against her was, she was being abused by bad players. Then again, I'd hate it more if she became fotm and picked and banned all the time.
She's still really freaking good. I don't really get many kills by myself with her anymore (might be my style partly), but she's still insanely strong in teamfights. I rarely lose when I play her.
On January 13 2012 21:56 zer0das wrote: She's still really freaking good. I don't really get many kills by myself with her anymore (might be my style partly), but she's still insanely strong in teamfights. I rarely lose when I play her.
Her combined with another aoe ult just gets ridiculous. Kennen, Morgana, Malphite, Amumu and Fiddlesticks have great synergy with Oriannas skills. Shield them, they ult in, ori drags everying together with ult, then use w,q and e, everything is dragged together, slowed and took heavy damage.
She's good, but the main problem about her not getting played is that she can't take a role effectively. She can either a) solo mid or b) support bot, both of which have better champions to fill the role. Taric, Sona, Soraka, and Ali can all out-sustain their bot lane, and the closest thing to her type of support (shielding) is Janna, and even Janna has much more utility than Orianna. AP Mid is just dominated by super stupid broken champs that it doesn't even matter.
You pick Orianna when there's another good source of AP damages and you want to fill a more supporty role, especially with aiding an AoE intiator who can use the speed boost well. That shield is pretty dumb in sustained fights/long chase counter-chases. Just a bunch of sustained damage and shield with max CDR and/or blue.
On January 14 2012 11:46 FuzzyLord wrote: She's good, but the main problem about her not getting played is that she can't take a role effectively. She can either a) solo mid or b) support bot, both of which have better champions to fill the role. Taric, Sona, Soraka, and Ali can all out-sustain their bot lane, and the closest thing to her type of support (shielding) is Janna, and even Janna has much more utility than Orianna. AP Mid is just dominated by super stupid broken champs that it doesn't even matter.
Of course she gets outshined by support champions, because she is not a support champion. That's like play support sion, since he can stun and lifesteal for the team with his ult. She has to go mid (don't think I ever played her top, she can't control the space there with her ball since the lane is too large), and she does that well. What super stupid broken champ is a better pick than orianna? If you want a burst assassin, yeah, orianna won't fill that roll. Orianna offers good poke, utility and great teamfighting, especially with another aoe ult. She is really strong in lane as well, I barely ever lose to anyone with her, at worst it ends up in free farm.
The hardest match up might be zilean, but pretty much everyone has a hard time against him.
You can also pick orianna when you have a strong initiator like amumu, just put your ball on him, spam your buttons and win. Or when you want to deny the enemy baron 1v5>.>
She is perfectly good , but underplay for many reasons:
In soloque -More reliant on blue than anivia ( meaning u cant build her like anivia mana wise with tear / catalyst or u do no damage mid game , while anivia just has a strong base nuke ) -Harder to play than most champs -Not fotm , people would rather play easier , stronger champions to gain elo up to some point.
Serious 5v5 there are stronger champions , altough i feel that she might be a good addition to the double ap/wota meta that has been getting popular again recently.
I don't know why people say she has mana problems, I really don't feel that way. You obviously can't keep spamming your spells, but no one with mana really can. 2 or 3 dorans or a catalyst are usually enough mana to harass and farm with for me.
If I'd solo queue and try to gain elo, I'd probably not pick Orianna either to be honest. I'd either go Swain/Ryze and try to get fed enough to fight 3 people on my own, or go Leblanc/Sion/Kassadin and gank all day to win all the lanes.
On January 14 2012 11:46 FuzzyLord wrote: She's good, but the main problem about her not getting played is that she can't take a role effectively. She can either a) solo mid or b) support bot, both of which have better champions to fill the role. Taric, Sona, Soraka, and Ali can all out-sustain their bot lane, and the closest thing to her type of support (shielding) is Janna, and even Janna has much more utility than Orianna. AP Mid is just dominated by super stupid broken champs that it doesn't even matter.
Of course she gets outshined by support champions, because she is not a support champion. That's like play support sion, since he can stun and lifesteal for the team with his ult. She has to go mid (don't think I ever played her top, she can't control the space there with her ball since the lane is too large), and she does that well. What super stupid broken champ is a better pick than orianna? If you want a burst assassin, yeah, orianna won't fill that roll. Orianna offers good poke, utility and great teamfighting, especially with another aoe ult. She is really strong in lane as well, I barely ever lose to anyone with her, at worst it ends up in free farm.
The hardest match up might be zilean, but pretty much everyone has a hard time against him.
Morgana can out-sustain Orianna in lane cuz of her spell vamp. Ryze is just stupid. Zilean can bomb then run away. Kass can easily just silence and jump onto Orianna. Cassiopeia can (if the person can hit q's) out harass Orianna. There are just so many better picks for mid than Orianna that she's just not played that much. I'm not saying that she is terrible, she's crazy good and fun to play, but BECAUSE she takes some level of skill and brains, people don't want to play her since there's other AP mid casters that are easier to play and get elo faster.
On January 14 2012 11:46 FuzzyLord wrote: She's good, but the main problem about her not getting played is that she can't take a role effectively. She can either a) solo mid or b) support bot, both of which have better champions to fill the role. Taric, Sona, Soraka, and Ali can all out-sustain their bot lane, and the closest thing to her type of support (shielding) is Janna, and even Janna has much more utility than Orianna. AP Mid is just dominated by super stupid broken champs that it doesn't even matter.
Of course she gets outshined by support champions, because she is not a support champion. That's like play support sion, since he can stun and lifesteal for the team with his ult. She has to go mid (don't think I ever played her top, she can't control the space there with her ball since the lane is too large), and she does that well. What super stupid broken champ is a better pick than orianna? If you want a burst assassin, yeah, orianna won't fill that roll. Orianna offers good poke, utility and great teamfighting, especially with another aoe ult. She is really strong in lane as well, I barely ever lose to anyone with her, at worst it ends up in free farm.
The hardest match up might be zilean, but pretty much everyone has a hard time against him.
Morgana can out-sustain Orianna in lane cuz of her spell vamp. Ryze is just stupid. Zilean can bomb then run away. Kass can easily just silence and jump onto Orianna. Cassiopeia can (if the person can hit q's) out harass Orianna. There are just so many better picks for mid than Orianna that she's just not played that much. I'm not saying that she is terrible, she's crazy good and fun to play, but BECAUSE she takes some level of skill and brains, people don't want to play her since there's other AP mid casters that are easier to play and get elo faster.
Ori can actually do pretty well against a kassa, but yeah, she's too hard to play for most lol. She's like all skillshot.
Continuing a discussion on the GD thread: Orianna's mana problems, tear or drings stack or catalyst rush or chalice?
Tear: - provides a bit of regen on top of the manapool, can be built into AA later ; doesn't provide early survivability nor firepower
Drings: - provides AP, HP and mp5 ; will have to be sold later on, the more drings you buy, the more you delay your big item (normally deathcap)
Cata rush: - provides survivability, mana, and a form of sustain ; doesn't give firepower nor "real" sustain later on, builds into RoA which may not be as good on Ori than on other APs due to her range
Chalice: - provides MR and infinite mana (via mp5) ; doesn't give any firepower nor survivability against AD, will probablu have to be sold later on.
Since I'm not too sure about getting RoA on Ori, and I don't like Tear as the only squishy option, I'd lean more toward chalice on drings stack. And then, unless the MR is needed to survive (people suggested LB), I'd rather have the HP from the drings, on top of some AP to harass harder. If the rings take too long to kick in tho, Chalice is certainly nice too. I've bought her when she got on sale so I'll test her... probably later, Jax/Cass free week and stuff.
If you play aggressive mid I'd recommend starting with chalice as her range is no longer the godlike zoner monster, so now you'll go into trades where you most likely will take a spell hit. Remember to use your sick good AAs in trades, it's deceptive how strong several AAs stack up in damage with her passive. Before the nerfs you didn't really need to enter AA range to harass the opponent.
In any case, I would build some items with mp5, be it drings, chalice, tear or combination, as in team fights you will be burning through a lot of mana to keep the ball moving, as you aren't using it only for offensive moves, but the utility from W speed up and ofc the shielding means you are gonna cast constantly in and out of the fights. Blue buff is good, but you can't 100% rely on having it.
On January 31 2012 21:24 Alaric wrote: Continuing a discussion on the GD thread: Orianna's mana problems, tear or drings stack or catalyst rush or chalice?
Tear: - provides a bit of regen on top of the manapool, can be built into AA later ; doesn't provide early survivability nor firepower
Drings: - provides AP, HP and mp5 ; will have to be sold later on, the more drings you buy, the more you delay your big item (normally deathcap)
Cata rush: - provides survivability, mana, and a form of sustain ; doesn't give firepower nor "real" sustain later on, builds into RoA which may not be as good on Ori than on other APs due to her range
Chalice: - provides MR and infinite mana (via mp5) ; doesn't give any firepower nor survivability against AD, will probablu have to be sold later on.
Since I'm not too sure about getting RoA on Ori, and I don't like Tear as the only squishy option, I'd lean more toward chalice on drings stack. And then, unless the MR is needed to survive (people suggested LB), I'd rather have the HP from the drings, on top of some AP to harass harder. If the rings take too long to kick in tho, Chalice is certainly nice too. I've bought her when she got on sale so I'll test her... probably later, Jax/Cass free week and stuff.
Just make sure you always get blue buff, or go RoA just in case IMO. RoA or 3 dring-->dcap seem like the only options unless somehow you PLAN to lose all your blue buffs.
I don't think Chalice is a great choice. It gives you tons of mana sustain in lane, but in a teamfight it's still not as good as the deep mana pool of RoA. And due to her range, you often don't need the MR in lane unless you're against someone with lots of mobility or range (so Salce got it vs Leblanc because of that). Not to mention that you don't pick Orianna unless you know you can secure blues.
I prefer the RoA route on her. The catalyst sustain is great, it gives durability to be able to be aggressive and trade with auto attacks and the mana pool comes in handy for teamfights (more so than mp5 will, mp5 is better for lane). It delays the Deathcap a bit longer than 2 or 3 dorans rings would, but that's fine.
The only thing I actually wish they'd buff is her movement speed. Put it at 315, where Lux is.
Drings - death cap is my preferred build. love that damage and early game lol. also, i've had some fairly good games with leona. leona engages and then i W and then down swipe the ball towards me with Q or W ulti Q.The fact that leona jumps past the other champ works well with ori
also all this talk about ori using chalice... wasn't this in a game vs lb? he probably got it mainly for the MR
On January 31 2012 21:24 Alaric wrote: Continuing a discussion on the GD thread: Orianna's mana problems, tear or drings stack or catalyst rush or chalice?
Tear: - provides a bit of regen on top of the manapool, can be built into AA later ; doesn't provide early survivability nor firepower
Drings: - provides AP, HP and mp5 ; will have to be sold later on, the more drings you buy, the more you delay your big item (normally deathcap)
Cata rush: - provides survivability, mana, and a form of sustain ; doesn't give firepower nor "real" sustain later on, builds into RoA which may not be as good on Ori than on other APs due to her range
Chalice: - provides MR and infinite mana (via mp5) ; doesn't give any firepower nor survivability against AD, will probablu have to be sold later on.
Since I'm not too sure about getting RoA on Ori, and I don't like Tear as the only squishy option, I'd lean more toward chalice on drings stack. And then, unless the MR is needed to survive (people suggested LB), I'd rather have the HP from the drings, on top of some AP to harass harder. If the rings take too long to kick in tho, Chalice is certainly nice too. I've bought her when she got on sale so I'll test her... probably later, Jax/Cass free week and stuff.
Tear makes no sense at all. Yes, she can fill it; - but she's no Anivia or Swain.
Chalice makes sense if you need the MRes in lane, e.g. against LB (I'm assuming that's why Salce did it).
Cata makes sense vs bursty lanes if you don't want to get Chalice and if you want RoA -> DC.
Drings make sense for Dring -> DC
Basicly this leaves us with: a) Drings -> DC -> Voidstaff b) Cata -> RoA -> DC. c) Chalice -> DC -> Voidstaff.
I think Chalice is a playstyle choice. For certain people or in certain match ups it makes sense. I believe it was Hotshot who used to get it so he could clear waves quickly and then gank or steal enemy wraiths without ever going oom.
I really like Cata -> RoA on her. It's what I would run when she was always played and I just played her in a few games like last week and Cata -> RoA still feels really strong. I think that Drings -> Dcap can work but is more ideal if your team is really reliant on you for midgame burst (so if you're running a support jungle or like a Malphite top or something). In a game with a typical carry jungler, standard bruiser top, I feel like Cata -> RoA is the most reliable build on her.
You can get away with making RoA your only real "survivability" item in lots of match ups due to her shield. While the ratio did get nerfed she still has a 240 shield with a .4 AP ratio so getting big AP items like RoA, Dcap, and Zhonya's can give you a great deal of survivability (with these three items you have a 428 damage shield). Her biggest issue is still player skill though. If you miss a Q you are completely fucked for the next four seconds.
Regardless, she has a lot of options and I'm not sure there's a lane that she flat out loses. Like even lanes that are tough for her she can still get her farm without dying due to how fast QW clears waves. I also think that in certain match ups Q>E>W can be better than Q>W>E. Come to think of it, when she was released lots of people were maxing W>Q>E. So at the very least she has lots of options for skill order and build order which I think makes her not only a fun champion but a champion whose potential still isn't fully discovered.
On February 09 2012 12:31 Dark_Chill wrote: I recently started playing her (i played her a bit at release so really hard now lol) and what masteries are recommended?
Edit: sry, meant to say runes. I don't know why I always confuse the two when talking about them.
Red: MPen, obligatory for casters Yellow: scaling MRegen, scaling AP. With the amount of mana Orianna is able to burn through, I'd go with scaling MRegen. Blue: scaling AP, flat MR against some matchups. Quints: flat AP. I started liking a mixture of 2 AP and 1 MS Quint, but that's personal preference.
On February 09 2012 12:31 Dark_Chill wrote: I recently started playing her (i played her a bit at release so really hard now lol) and what masteries are recommended?
Edit: sry, meant to say runes. I don't know why I always confuse the two when talking about them.
Salce (imo the best Ori player/"Some highschool kid who just like... fucks girls on the volleyball team or something") uses Magic Pen reds, Scaling MP5 yellows, Flat MR blues, and then 2 flat HP quints and a flat MR quint.
I've recently been playing some games as AD ori taking 15 dmg from masteries and leveling e>w>q. While obviously its not top tier it seems to work out pretty well with the self resists/shields and self peel. 21/0/9
So, Orianna. Picked her up after the free week as I've been meaning to pick up another utility-friendly mid (Morgana's frequently banned, I'm no Zilean fan and teammates assume I'm trolling with Karma) - I have plenty of things to improve on with her, as she's a lot less point'n'click/works-in-a-straight-line compared to Ryze/Xerath.
Are there any decent VoDs/replays of Salce or any other decent Orianna player during the laning phase, or would I have to take what I can get from spectated tournament games? I need to work on my laning - I've found it difficult to harass with autoattacks due to her short range without eating some form of combo, and her in-lane mana can get a bit iffy if you're using her Q/W to farm. r.Evo, are there any changes to the OP considering her current status? What matchups are particularly unfavorable? I was thrashed/zoned by a Ziggs in one match (possibly by juking into too many Qs), though managed to stalemate against another Ziggs in the next game.
Can someone tell me why Orianna is not considered as a good support? I've been using after getting bored of Sona, and everything she does seems to be so good for a support role. My AD gets free resistances, a shield (which works almost like a heal, just have to use it at right time) and a slow that pretty much prevents you from getting ganked (speed up for you, slow for them) . Her q can reveal bushes, her ult can pick up some awesome assists+awesome saves. How is she not awesome?
On March 28 2012 22:21 Dark_Chill wrote: Can someone tell me why Orianna is not considered as a good support? I've been using after getting bored of Sona, and everything she does seems to be so good for a support role. My AD gets free resistances, a shield (which works almost like a heal, just have to use it at right time) and a slow that pretty much prevents you from getting ganked (speed up for you, slow for them) . Her q can reveal bushes, her ult can pick up some awesome assists+awesome saves. How is she not awesome?
Dat mana cost. Unlike say a Janna she can't spam her abilities during any possible trade because she will just go oom stupidly fast. And... yeah Janna does almost everything better. Has the same shield, the slow, and has a knockup useful for checking bushes. Their ults opposite, but good Janna ult much easier and works better in most teamcomps. That said, Ori much better at gank assisting imo.
The OP really needs an update to stay with the times. I'm a ~1550 player so take what I say with a grain of salt if you want.
Stats/Patchnotes needs an update rather badly.
Masteries
21/0/9, Standard AP getting the mana masteries in utility and buff duration since without them, orianna runs OOM at an astonishing rate.
The reason you go 21 into offense is although her ratios and base values do not seem particularly high, (0.6 on Q, 0.5 on W, 0.3 on E, 0.7 on R) her autoattacks scale at 0.2. Every little bit adds up. You can't easily 100-0 someone unless they're near your tower and you have a movement speed advantage on them but you can take them from 80-0 if you hit your skills and hit ignite (Really easy to do if you hit a QW and then wait for cooldowns to hit them with a full QWR+shiftE+ignite combo and then right click them to tower).
Runes. Marks - Flat Mpen- The most powerful offensive rune for an AP caster in this slot. The only other option is MR reds which aren't too good on orianna since her base values aren't high enough to get away with doing so. Seals - Mana regen per level - Since the nerf a while ago, her mana costs are rather astronomical. Using Q to reposition the ball is not something you can do unless you're going to hit your opponent with it. The HP/level option and AP/level options aren't very viable anymore since unless you're super conservative with mana you're going to oom and eat free harass unless you base a lot. Lack of a defensive yellow rune on orianna is the reason I run MR blues. Glyphs - Flat MR -or- AP/level - Going to lane with 13 extra MR is huge compared to having the minor amounts of AP. At level 6, you're getting 10 extra AP, translating to ~25 extra damage at best from a full combo + autoattacks. On the other hand, 15 MR gives you 13% extra effective health which is ~110 health at level 6. Much more useful and scales pretty well into late game. MR/level won't help you during the early to mid laning phase which is when you need it most, not good on an AP mid. One small variation is having two mpen blues so that you have ~10 mpen such that with sorc boots you deal true damage to your opponents without MR.
Summoner Spells Flash - You need the repositioning, Flash + W makes it rather difficult for most junglers to catch up/kill you if you're in a bind Ignite - Nowadays most top laners run exhaust or teleport and bottom lane is heal/exhaust. Mid is usually the only place where an ignite is found and you NEED one, especially if the other team has a mundo/swain/vlad/other high sustain champion.
Opening items Boots+3 pots You cannot afford to get caught in a position where you're taking damage all the way to tower. Dorans allows you to do more damage and use more skills, however, if you open dorans, your opponent will most likely blow their mana bar and ignite and force to to base by level 3. You can't live without some form of sustain mid, especially since orianna has no guaranteed damage skills. Boots also helps you live jungle ganks.
Item build Boots + 3 pots into double dorans. You need the mana regen rather badly in order to survive the few minutes where you don't have blue. From there, you can build:
Sorc boots + Double dorans - By far the best balance of early game damage, survivability and sustain. With the right runes, you're dealing true damage or near it.
Deathcap, RoA, WotA, Void Staff are good standard items. Rylais/banshee/abyssal/Hourglasss are the defensive oriented items that I get the most. A tear may sound good on orianna but you don't have enough mana to charge it up in laning phase without a blue which counteracts the reason why you're getting the tear in the first place. It's much better to just be smart with how you cast skills.
Do you guys know of any good VoDs of Orianna to see how one's supposed to lane her? I'd especially approve first person stream VODs of players like Salce, but I haven't really been able to find any recent ones.
I played a good bit of ori while waiting for stuff to sell in the D3 auction house. Chalice is pretty amazing on her, since with blue and masteries, she has essentially maxed CDR. I've been trying both chalice -> RoA -> grail and double dorans -> deathcap -> eventual grail with a few different rune setups.
Runes A: Mpen reds, mana/lvl yellow, ap/level blue, flat AP quints Runes B/C: Mpen reds, mana/lvl yellow, MR blue, AP or MR quints
The chalice route goes pretty well with the MR pages since you do less damage with her poke but can afford to poke more often. The standard AP carry page/build with double dorans works as expected but if you get the codex for chalice, your teamfight damage goes up a pretty good amount because of the CDR even though your ulti does less damage than usual.
One last thing I did was my semi-troll page vs a kassadin who thought he was counterpicking me.
AD reds, hp/level yellows, MR blues, MR quints.
Go QEEWER and focus on right clicking kassadin whenever possible. After 6, you should focus on levelling either Q or W for damage but kassadin's Q should barely scratch you and with the MR from the ball on you, kassadin will run oom if he tries to harass you down. I managed to force him to b twice before level 6 since he literally could not last hit anywhere but under tower. Fun game.
Alright, with the recent buffs/nerfs to orianna, I think it's time to open up some discussion on orianna again. I think personally that maxing W, if you didn't do it before, is something you'll have to do now (QWWEW). Running standard AP runes (AP quints, ap/lvl glyphs, mpen marks), hitting a Q+W at level 5 enables you to force a flash at level 6 by (Her passive stacks and does absurd damage) hitting a Q>R>ignite>W>E self + 3 autoattacks. You'll kill 90% of midlaners
At level 1-3, you can auto-attack any mid-laner and win out in the trade. Against any melee mids, you can go Q>E>W>W>W. By getting a point in E, you can negate a lot of the spell harass that people can throw at you (kassadin's Q, some of gragas barrel) and just right click them continously. After you stack your passive up to full, you're doing more damage with your autos than you do with Q. If you can land a Q+W combo, you can usually get 2-3 auto's in as well, it's enough to put most people under half health easily.
Been busy with work and other stuffs but I've been reading around and most people tend to feel like her changes were more of a nerf than a buff? I mean, lower damage on Q plus slower speed on Q sounds horrifically bad. Obviously you can't max Q anymore but slower ball speed means that comboing is going to be more predictable and harder to do even if the spells are more responsive when strung together.
I wouldn't be surprised if max E becomes popular on her now honestly. Her E was already strong in lane phase but it'll be even stronger during later parts of the game and more than likely E->R->W->Q will be a faster/better combo in team fights. Max E could let you just auto attack a bunch for damage while taking significantly less yourself.
This is all theorycraft though. I haven't gotten to play since the patch hit due to irl obligations.
Levels in Q still do far more for both your sustained damage and your mana efficiency, so I dunno why you wouldn't max it first. The movespeed nerf doesn't stop it from being guaranteed damage in most laning situations.
People have maxed Q over W before, now that's a no brainer since W got his scaling buffed and the base damage nerfed. Q vs E is something we should keep an eye out for, I can definitly see E max working well.
Updated the entire OP, nothing really new added. The scarra video linked above pretty much says it all.
Hmm watching froggen, he rarely plays orianna for her burst. He consistently goes Q>W, auto+auto, Q>R, auto+auto, Q>W. He doesn't blow his burst all in one go unless there actually is a large group.
As he puts it, Orianna is not a burst mage, she's a support+poke+AoE mage
So funny to see Froggen crush face with orianna, granted he duod with misaya and on only 1600 elo but nevertheless, He maxes w right? and Im not sure but is the patch live on korea? Seems like he still played the old orianna, I noticed becaused there was no Dragon was killed announcement.
Froggen just explained his skilling order on orianna, QWQWERWW, R>W>Q>E. The reason he only keeps one/two points in Q regardless is because of last hitting minions at tower, sending the ball through the minions with level 1 Q is equivalent to autoattacking all the minions. If you know how much damage you need to do to the minions it helps with last hitting at tower immensely.
On July 08 2012 19:04 Lmui wrote: Froggen just explained his skilling order on orianna, QWQWERWW, R>W>Q>E. The reason he only keeps one/two points in Q regardless is because of last hitting minions at tower, sending the ball through the minions with level 1 Q is equivalent to autoattacking all the minions. If you know how much damage you need to do to the minions it helps with last hitting at tower immensely.
ive been practicing orianna lately and i gotta say its pretty hard to master the ball, but im starting to get the idea of when to zone out ppl in team fights and when to use my ult. (e on initiator and then r w is pretty sick combo).
Ive been wondering about the best items for aggressive play. double doran vs catalyst is my biggest concern. I'm not lvl 30 yet so from the above guide Idk if i'll be doing true dmg. Cata seems to be the safe bet. I also heard that if you can live, tear is a good starting item. Now into mid-late game, why void staff over abyssal? I tend to get boot>roa>sorc>death cap>abyssal>armor>idk wat
Also do people still tend to max w before q, I'm still unsure of the reason so ive been maxing q first.
On October 12 2012 14:38 Sufficiency wrote: I think Orianna needs Grail for mana... extra CDR allows her to shield more often and reposition her ball more often.
if you go double doran then you should have decent mana regen already. I do not think catalyst start is that good for Orianna, she has some defensive skills to protect herself already.
On October 12 2012 14:38 Sufficiency wrote: I think Orianna needs Grail for mana... extra CDR allows her to shield more often and reposition her ball more often.
if you go double doran then you should have decent mana regen already. I do not think catalyst start is that good for Orianna, she has some defensive skills to protect herself already.
Well, the Doran's mana regen bonus also gets multiplied by chalice, so it's not that bad to get maybe 1 Doran with chalice for some champions.
I've taken to going either straight chalice-> grail or one dorans into codex and grabbing a grail as my first item. CDR is a beautiful thing to have on orianna, especially against any mobile mid. RoA used to be my go-to item but constant mana regen is pretty equal to a large mana pool in the short run and better in the long run, especially when farming wraiths. Having 30%+ CDR in the mid-game feels much better to me than having a bit more damage on WR. The ability to move the ball around more, W more, E more is awesome.
The primary reason to max W first is it gives pretty decent burst and has a longer overall range than Q does which makes a pretty big difference at higher skill levels. Q maxing does better sustained damage but in lane/early game fights, the fight will be decided primarily by QWR, not QWRQQ. Also, leaving Q at one point makes last hitting ranged minions under tower a breeze. Q them all once and then they're ready to kill after the tower hits them once.
So what do the high lvl players think about grail on ori. I've been contemplating on grail, but you'd have to pick either roa or grail because deathcap is a must and late game mana regen isnt much of a concern but cdr can play a huge role.
At worlds a lot of players went grail first. I think I like it more than rod. Bonuses of grail include cdr, early mr as well removing your reliance on blue. For rod the bonus is catalyst in lane and larger health pool. I think grail is overall better as cdr is super good on ori. Roa has its merits but I like grail better 90% of the time
So I just picked up orianna and was wondering whether to max q or w first. The threads I have read have been saying to max w for easy clearing but then I saw TPA Toyz maxing q first in the finals so im wondering is it something that varies by enemy team comp/lane matchup or what?
I like maxing Q first because it's less mana intensive in lane. It's a lot easier to harass your opponent with Q max because you're using 1 skill instead of 2 most of the time . Yes, it's less damage, but it's way easier to keep your ball positioned ideally when you have those 3, 4, or 5 extra W activations worth of mana.
W I think is better to prioritize lots of roaming, though, even though I think it's slightly worse in lane.
can any high elo shed some light on AP vs MS quinte on Orianna. Lately i've been favoring 2 MS quinte, I can dodge and kite much better but my early game dmg is low
On October 12 2012 19:09 DarkwindHK wrote: For orianna is Grail first a good idea or death cap first better?
If it depends on the lane opponent, when will you get the Grail?
Grail first is ridiculously strong on Orianna. She has huge mana consumption and it really makes a tremendous difference. The added MR is a nice bonus, since mids are almost always AP. You also want to auto generally and in order to maximize the ball effectiveness, you need to be able to walk in and take a bit of damage. MR/Armor also synergize with shields.
DCap is nice, but Orianna is really more about her large utility than just straight up damage. Cup into Cap is really solid.
On October 17 2012 14:55 Mystic_Starcraft wrote: can any high elo shed some light on AP vs MS quinte on Orianna. Lately i've been favoring 2 MS quinte, I can dodge and kite much better but my early game dmg is low
Matter of preference, really. Orianna can kite extremely easily with her kit, since you can slow or haste (or both) as needed. It's most likely a placebo effect. You could probably have someone swap them without telling you and you would never notice.
I don't like to go 2/1 of something. Either do it or don't.
On October 15 2012 04:03 upperbound wrote: I like maxing Q first because it's less mana intensive in lane. It's a lot easier to harass your opponent with Q max because you're using 1 skill instead of 2 most of the time . Yes, it's less damage, but it's way easier to keep your ball positioned ideally when you have those 3, 4, or 5 extra W activations worth of mana.
W I think is better to prioritize lots of roaming, though, even though I think it's slightly worse in lane.
I've had the best results doing a mix of Q and W, generally leveling Q over W. I like to get level 3 Q then 3 W. When W is level 1 there isn't much fear from the laner when the ball is laying about and you're too far to use Q. You get more damage out of W than Q, but at the cost of higher mana. However, W has a much longer CD and leveling Q reduces its CD.
A mix of the two lets you hit nice QW combos for good damage, while points in Q let you hit a follow up faster and for more overall damage (QW, chase/kite, QRE ignite). With proper presence of mind, you can time your ult such that it throws them in a way that allows you to then E for more damage (though generally you aim to throw them in whatever way is best for the fight, e.g. further from you if to save yourself from a gank). If you only level W then you have to first land a Q for minimal damage and then land a W (which isn't always possible). If you only level Q then you're really relying on being able to chain back to back Qs (on CD and without missing) to make up for not having W -- this is impractical.
Level 3 Q is 120 + .5AP -- Level 3 W is 160 + .7AP Level 5 Q is 180 + .5AP -- Level 1 W is 70 + .7AP
On October 15 2012 03:48 Zabad wrote: So I just picked up orianna and was wondering whether to max q or w first. The threads I have read have been saying to max w for easy clearing but then I saw TPA Toyz maxing q first in the finals so im wondering is it something that varies by enemy team comp/lane matchup or what?
I prefer to alternate q/w. this is my skill order. q>w>w>q>e>r>w>q>w>q>w etc This way they both scale pretty evenly.
On October 17 2012 14:55 Mystic_Starcraft wrote: can any high elo shed some light on AP vs MS quinte on Orianna. Lately i've been favoring 2 MS quinte, I can dodge and kite much better but my early game dmg is low
I recommend MS quints Mpen marks MR/5 Flat or Per lvl yellows and either AP/LVL or Flat MR blues on Orianna when playing mid lane. MS quints are pretty much essential. They allow you to kite better in lane and give you more overall mobility in the game. Orianna is mainly about positioning and these help on her greatly. I use to run AP quints on her but there are so many times where I wasn't able to secure a kill or escape during engagements. I also recommend putting 4 points into swiftness. With my experience, It seems that movespeed over the 370 range is the sweetspot.
I just bought Ori and I already love her. Is there any way that I can watch the Championship Finals' games from Toyz's POV? Replays or first person VODs or anything?
On October 19 2012 20:31 valaki wrote: I just bought Ori and I already love her. Is there any way that I can watch the Championship Finals' games from Toyz's POV? Replays or first person VODs or anything?
I do believe vods from the tournament are available but i don't think its fpv, its the cast of the event.
Orianna is my main if you have any questions about her feel free to send me a pm.
On October 17 2012 14:55 Mystic_Starcraft wrote: can any high elo shed some light on AP vs MS quinte on Orianna. Lately i've been favoring 2 MS quinte, I can dodge and kite much better but my early game dmg is low
I am pretty sure it also depends on the match up. Playing against no-MS Ori as TF and Cassiopeia makes me smile.
On October 15 2012 03:48 Zabad wrote: So I just picked up orianna and was wondering whether to max q or w first. The threads I have read have been saying to max w for easy clearing but then I saw TPA Toyz maxing q first in the finals so im wondering is it something that varies by enemy team comp/lane matchup or what?
I prefer to alternate q/w. this is my skill order. q>w>w>q>e>r>w>q>w>q>w etc This way they both scale pretty evenly.
So the way I build orianna's abilities overall is r > q > w > e, but my early game skill order is variable.
The reason why I think q should be maxed first (as opposed to W as a wave clear) is for two reasons: at higher levels of q, its CD decreases and it is less mana hungry than W. If you're trying to effectively zone an opponent in lane (say a melee mid), Q's low CD and mana cost will allow you to effectively poke repeatedly - the damage is less than a W at equal levels, but your ability to constantly move the ball to and fro makes your opponent less sure of when a QW poke will be coming, and you can wear opponents down in lane as opposed to using a rather mana-hungry nuke repeatedly. Also, I have little trouble farming/wave clearing with Q because of that same lower CD.
At early levels by level 5 I want to have three ranks of Q, one W, and one E, but the order is very dependent on the jungler. -Say they have lee sin, who can gank as quickly as level 2. I would go Q-E first, because it gives you much more ball control. If I took Q-W by level 2, I would be tempted to throw my ball out for a QW harass. If a gank comes in, it's harder to get the ball back soon enough to either W you or your opponent for slow. Now, if I feel very safe early game, I'll go Q - E - Q - W, giving me a more effective poke harass.
The safest early game combination is Q-E-W, and then onto maxing the other ranks. That way, if a level 3 or 4 gank comes in, you'll be able to recall the ball and W away immediately - this combo alone has allowed me to walk away from constant ganks. ____________
As for a final note, I had first started playing orianna maxing W, but the low CD and decent damage of Q at high ranks proved to be dramatically more effective at zoning my lane opponent. Add a blue buff in there close to the max rank of Q, and your opponent (especially if melee) will have a ball thrown in their direction at every attempt to CS, at virtually no mana cost. Especially with blue, you can continually poke with Q and shield to discourage your opponent's aggression - say you poke a katarina, if you shield immediately her predictable retaliatory Q will do insignificant damage.
If you can keep that ball moving at all times, your opponent will have a harder time reading when you will W, and when they can get a free harass.
On October 17 2012 14:55 Mystic_Starcraft wrote: can any high elo shed some light on AP vs MS quinte on Orianna. Lately i've been favoring 2 MS quinte, I can dodge and kite much better but my early game dmg is low
I am pretty sure it also depends on the match up. Playing against no-MS Ori as TF and Cassiopeia makes me smile.
I'm not a very high level (1300 solo q), but I think this would depend also on the right combination of masteries and runes - my standard ori uses AP quints but I put 4 points in mobility in the utility tree, since I don't find myself as mana regen-needy. Obviously mana gets low, but after my first buy of 2 dorans rings and an eventual blue I like taking the MS in the masteries in favor of taking AP quints.
I got back into an Ori kick but was curious if people thought she was bad for Season 3 or something. She didn't really receive any big nerfs or anything but has seen almost no play since S2 Finals. I find that her laning is still pretty much safe against everyone even some of the AD asstards that go mid now (shield and W too good plus easy wave clear and farming from 825 range). But she's boasting like a 45% winrate on lolking and I find that she's still like the easiest AP mid for me to carry games with because of her burst and massive CC.
Are people just still bad at Orianna after all this time or am I missing something and did S3 changes ruin her somehow? I realize that my personal experience is likely just me beating up on bads or getting lucky or maybe my Orianna is just above the level of all my other champions.
Been doing boot+3pot or Flask+pots openings depending on lane into Chalice -> Dcap -> Athenes -> Void -> situational. Sometimes I get early chain vest if against AD lane for later Zhonya's. I still think she's pretty damn strong though but maybe I'm just stupid.
On October 15 2012 03:48 Zabad wrote: So I just picked up orianna and was wondering whether to max q or w first. The threads I have read have been saying to max w for easy clearing but then I saw TPA Toyz maxing q first in the finals so im wondering is it something that varies by enemy team comp/lane matchup or what?
I prefer to alternate q/w. this is my skill order. q>w>w>q>e>r>w>q>w>q>w etc This way they both scale pretty evenly.
So the way I build orianna's abilities overall is r > q > w > e, but my early game skill order is variable.
The point of maxing W over Q is that the slow and speed up scales. Without that I find Q to be better, but since I realized how much better the slow gets with maxed W, I max W most of the time.
Build wise, I feel like skipping Athenes and just go with a RoA, but I don't know what to get for CDR. Thinking about it, I probably wanna go 9/0/21 on her.
Toyz said in an interview that Orianna is weakest when her Q is on cooldown, so maxing Q reduces this window. Although Toyz is really good at zoning and poking with Q so that also matches his style better.
I vary my skill order depending on what I need each game , since the extra movespeed from W is sometimes really useful for escaping ganks and such.
Skill order is always a point of debate on Ori. I usually level Q/W evenly personally. Going RoA means no chalice which is the single best laning item on Ori in the game. You also don't really need the bigger mana pool as much as you need regen. I usually finish dcap before turning chalice into athenes though after the nerf especially since chalice is really all you need against any AP laner.
Is it acceptable to get both RoA and Chalice before moving to damage items? I like the health and passive catalyst gives me but I keep hearing to go for one or the other, not both.
On January 19 2013 06:59 imBLIND wrote: Is it acceptable to get both RoA and Chalice before moving to damage items? I like the health and passive catalyst gives me but I keep hearing to go for one or the other, not both.
You can do it but then your damage suffers. You don't really need the health or mana on Ori after lane phase and even during lane the best part of cata is just the regen. You get the same effect though with a flask and chalice lets you harass a lot more than cata does (and chalice is cheaper). Unless your positioning sucks or you're laning against an AD I don't see much appeal to cata/RoA Ori.
Morellos is nice for the CDR but it's not as much mana regen as chalice/athenes which is super vital on such a poke centric champion.
As far as skill order goes, I usually max W first on orianna although I do max Q first in a few specific matchups (katarina, ahri and other dashing midlaners). It's a point of contention and there's many arguments for both sides but neither side is definitively better than the other.
I've toyed around with Morellonomicon in conjunction with tabis+(RoA /dorans) and it's pretty good against AD lanes since it gives you a very good combination of cdr+tankiness+damage but grail->dcap is still far and away better against any AP lane. I've also found that taking wraiths with morellonomicon tends to run orianna oom rather quickly since it gives less than half the mana regen of grail in most laning circumstances. Outside of lane, having both morellos + RoA is generally enough regen if you can keep blue buff fairly regularly. It has its place but it's definitely not a go-to item in any matchup against an AP carry.
She's definitely a 21/0/9 champion though as far as masteries go. Any item you get with 15%+ cdr puts her at 39%+ with blue buff and she will definitely buy one. The only question is which one you get.
With the recent surge in AD mids and champs that have very lethal gap closers like akali, fizz, and even master yi, I don't think the old sorc boots+chalice into dcap works anymore on orianna, unless you're on a premade team and above 1700 elo where you're almost guaranteed not to have an idiot on your team that requires a lot of help. Even versus "normal" AP carry champs, I think this is still a better way to play orianna overall because of how teamfights are right now; they're more prolonged and diving for certain champs rather than quickly bursting down all the carries.
So instead of mana regen seals and AP quints, I'm now trying out move speed quints and hp/lv yellows instead, along with scaling ap blues and mpen reds for obvious reasons. I keep 21/0/9 masteries. The health helps against both AP and AD mids, and the movement speed helps with escaping ganks, which I really like after they lowered the movement speed on tier1 boots. W does give a move speed buff, but I prefer some redundancy on survivability right now.
The build I'm trying out right now is flask+2hp+1mana -> cata/tier1 boots -> deathcap. I don't get chalice because athenes now sucks for the price it costs, the mana regen can be replaced by mana items, cdr can come from a different source, and the passive...well you're probably going to be dead before you spam enough spells to use up all the extra mana you get anyways. I also delay lv2 boots until I get the deathcap.
It is a little more expensive than boots/chalice, but looking at it from an objective view, the only items that give around 200 health w/ for AP carries are guise, cata, belt, and 2 doran rings. The doran rings are nice, but they don't build into anything and delay the deathcap. Guise is a little too expensive for me and the upgraded version also sucks on orianna. Belt is okay, but im not a giant fan of rylais on orianna. Cata builds into RoA and Veil, both of which are very good on squishy champs. So I opt for the cata if I'm not 0/4 and extremely behind.
Sustain wise, you won't be able to poke as much as you would with a chalice, but flask and cata should suffice because the laning phase isn't as long as it used to be anymore (at least, thats always how it works in my games anyways...). Also, I choose to go Q>E>W for the first 3 levels, then R>Q>E>W for the rest. W takes too much mana to harass with and a higher E is infinitely more useful for surviving ganks than a higher W is.
After Dcap, I get movement speed boots, a cdr item, and choose between RoA or Veil, depending on how many gap closers they have and how competent my team is. The reasoning behind this is to become a super kiter; now that you do enough damage with Dcap, I build survivability items and movement speed items to become almost untouchable. Plus, orianna is never useless with her AA in the first few teamfights. With movement speed boots, you will have over 400 movespeed without buffs, which is more than enough to run away from anyone without a slow. If you build a veil, it'll be difficult for them to catch you, and if you build RoA, it'll be difficult for them to finish you off. Combined with the movespeed and your utlity in W, E, and R...you should be alive at the end of most teamfights. This'll also help split the damage between you and your frontline. With Dcap, you'll be doing constant DPS, so they can't ignore you either.
After the core of movement boots, Dcap, RoA / Veil, the last 3 slots can be split between IBG, Lich, Void staff, DFG, Zhonya, rylai, warmog...all depends on the situation and team. I like IBG on her because that slow + CDR+mana+armor makes you a kiting monster.
Damn this thread's old, but I'd just like to bump it to ask a question for ori builds as of now.
I've seen people start getting tear on ori recently, and I have tried this a few times myself. I find that getting gear early doesn't really give you any advantages in terms of fighting (but we all know this), and it does help with ori's pushing/extended fights by giving her the mana to move her ball around and whatnot. I still like the chalice -> athenes build since the chalice also gives her some decent MR early and athene's CDR + damage is very nice if you can get it early.
So my question is when do you guys think it's a good idea to get tear and when is it better for an alternative build (athenes or 2 drings into dcap)
The only times I've seen tear being purchased is when the person wasn't laning vs any AP so the MR portion of chalice was wasted. Instead they went tear + morellos for mana regen/cdr.
Athenes is good if you don't want to worry about managing mana. Once you get athenes, you can spam spells pretty much all day and not worry about it. You sacrifice some damage but the MR and infinite mana make up for it a bit. Against AD mids, tear -> seraphs + morellos is good, gives more AP than athenes, but requires a bit more mana management than athenes as you can run out pretty easily if you keep spamming spells on cooldown. Double dorans into deathcap is pretty greedy but gives you big burst. The tradeoff is you'll probably run OOM a lot and you won't have much CDR which is pretty important on ori.
On June 04 2013 01:08 Numy wrote: The only times I've seen tear being purchased is when the person wasn't laning vs any AP so the MR portion of chalice was wasted. Instead they went tear + morellos for mana regen/cdr.
wouldn't you want drings against an ad mid since they're looking to heavily burst/all in you? Or are you going to try and harrass them with heavy Q spams by getting the early tear?
If their comp is a dive comp, tear would probably be a good idea to get seraphs. So if im laning versus an akali, diana, any-other-ap-with-a-gap-closer, I would go tear/cata (cata first if the health is needed), roa, seraph.
If their comp has an AD mid, I go cata/armguard into tear or morellos. I get a tear if their entire team is meant for diving, and I get a morellos if i dont have to worry about multiple divers. I know its kinda hard to charge a late tear, but you need a 2nd mana item that will help protect you against divers, and seraphs is the best at that. Getting it earlier will put you at risk in the lane, and Im rarely able to get it before finishing armguard and at least a red crystal.
Versus any other normal AP mid, athenes>dcap all day.
On June 06 2013 18:53 Argoth. wrote: So, you're basically discarding your CDR with tear/cata build, which is not the best option on Orianna imo.
i'd say the tear is un-needed. The ROA is an absolute must vs heavy divers. Adding the seraph's into the mix delays your mid-late game imo. You really want to have roa/deathcap/zhonya by the 35 minute mark vs a dive comp. You can also pick up cdr shoes if needed or go for the athenes after the zhonya if you don't need the voidstaff(most of the time i need the staff though).
Picked Orianna back up recently, and I'm having a bunch of trouble (apart from the fact that I'm terrible to begin with, and the obvious "ups I used Q while E is on cd, if Hecarim initiates now I can't follow-u- there he goes"). + Show Spoiler [Because I can't write a short post] +
I tried 9-0-21 initially for the mp5 and CDR but it's clearly not enough damage and the mp5 doesn't make up for all the additional spellcasts you need to clear against somebody trying to shove you (since you need a LOT of AP with her ratios and diminishing damage), so I settled for 21-0-9 (21-9-0 against AD mids, or champ with dashes and a bunch of kill potential in general). Using MPen/armour/MR/AP runes since I want some AP against shovers and it doesn't feel like MS quints would change much with all the mobility creep trends. Maxing Q first because of cooldown (so vulnerable when Q is on cd, worst of all if E is too) and clears for less mana.
Went grail rush (with sorcs somewhere) into either Deathcap/void/Zhonya's depending on flow, but had the same problem where I just don't have enough AP to clear fast so the additional CDR doesn't help that much. Been trying chalice->deathcap, which is much better for damage (as in hitting a QW actually feels like you do something) but once teamfights start you resent the lack of CDR unless you have blue buff (positioning and people deciding to always dive and focus me first means I die a lot atm so I don't really keep the blue for long past laning). Chalice -> Deathcap -> Grail would probably feel ideal (that or I get a good positioning and opposing teams that don't send 2 assassins on me every fight) but I often have to work on Zhonya's or Void at that point (I could probably learn to alter my playstyle for utility and then getting Void isn't so important, but sometimes you just can't skip Zhonya's).
Most match-ups felt pretty miserable as long as the opponent had more range than me (825 on Q). A good third of them the jungler came and gifted kills and sometimes buffs so I can't really comment on them (scrub can't win lane by himself -> won't win against buffs at level 3). Karma, Morgana would just mindlessly push, Brand too (because the jungler put him very ahead, he had the raw AP to), Zed is Zed... and most of the time I'd get outtraded too. I take it that Orianna's safe because she isn't as easy to poke, and she has tools to defend from all-ins (like skilling E at level 2 against Kha for example), but even with autos I never felt like I would outdamage anyone when they'd straight up engage me.
I see mainly 2 reasons to this: - it's normal since Orianna isn't meant to outtrade people with all the harass potential she has, so the "problem" is me getting in position to be engaged on in the first place. - if I harass them before, control the damage well enough, and go back to harassing as soon as possible, I'll have done more in the end even though I'll have dealt less during the trade.
Problem with the 2nd part is hitting Q enough (has said, when people have more than 825 range they'd just run away if I went too close, and cast something at the wave) and auto harass, which I must be doing badly since either I take as much damage from creep aggro (should I try to push them away from their wave before harassing, or set myself on the side before doing it?) or whenever I'm in auto range (525) I'll just eat a hard to avoid skillshot without boots (for exemple Brand is in E range and W is pretty hard to dodge at that range too). I also seem unable to zone anyone but the melee champs with the ball, and wasting a lot of mana just putting it in a threatening place w/o being able to hit the enemy. I guess everytime I move out of leash range and the ball comes back to me without it being the goal of that move, I should consider it a mistake (also going and picking it up can be dangerous depending on position and opponent). Maybe I should try to position it before the waves meet, so I don't push, and I can then force a certain positioning from the enemy laner if he wants to farm safely.
I'm having a bunch of other problems, but I feel that if I learn to first lane her correctly, not being as behind during midgame will make it easier to improve teamfighting.
TL;DR: 1. 21-0-9, Magic or Hybrid pen / armour / MR / AP, QEW R>Q>W>E as generic set-up, yes/no? 2. Chalice core, Seeker's first/early if against an AD champ, then rely on blue buff (and positioning to survive) for CDR while building more damage since completing an early Grail isn't worth it anymore? 3. How do I position the ball exactly? Hit it to punish an early last hit, then weave around it to make that place dangerous and control where the enemy laner stands to last hit? So despite the range (and your lack of escape) don't hesitate to stand in the middle of the lane if that lets you zone the enemy laner? 4. How to use that passive? It incites you to auto several times in a row, but should I just auto once when they last hit or their CDs are down and retreat to avoid aggro, or try to get an auto in then keep them going to win a trade? The creep wave is safer against skillshots, but should I stand aside so I can try to QW people and abuse the slow to chase and auto them without drawing aggro?
1. Generic ap setup's fine on orianna, I sometimes run MS quints against zed/kha and whatnot but I think that's a preference thing.
2. Chalice is core cause it builds into grail later, but against Ad mids don't get armguard, it doens't give that much ap, nor does it give any form of mana regen/CDR. Build a tear, harass the living shit out of the other guy, and get morello's for the cdr/mp5
3. Most of the time what I do is I QW into them, force them to back off, and auto them a few times, back off myself, and keep the ball where it is or move it horizontally (but always separating enemy from the wave). As for the position of the ball, I don't really know what to tell you except to always remember where you moved it last. A lot of the time if I'm not vigilant I would miss kills or assists just because it took 5 years for my Q to move the ball where I wanted it to go, whereas if I just constantly moved it closer to myself or used E on someone closer, my Q would have made it in time.
4. As for using Orianna's passive you just auto them while standing in your own wave or harass them from the side (away from the creep wave). Use your E and QW accordingly to protect yourself while doing damage, and always keep river warded (you really don't want to get caught with QE on cooldown).
As for you mentioning a grail rush not giving you any damage, I think you're just getting it a bit too late. I've done grail rushes before and if you can get it by like 12-14 minutes or something, you can constantly spam QW even without blue, and clear waves very easily.
Don't think you should grail rush 100% of the time. Against AD mids tear and morellos works fine. Against guys like zed tear and zonyhas destroy his burst potential on you.
On June 29 2013 00:00 Nos- wrote: 1. Generic ap setup's fine on orianna, I sometimes run MS quints against zed/kha and whatnot but I think that's a preference thing.
2. Chalice is core cause it builds into grail later, but against Ad mids don't get armguard, it doens't give that much ap, nor does it give any form of mana regen/CDR. Build a tear, harass the living shit out of the other guy, and get morello's for the cdr/mp5
3. Most of the time what I do is I QW into them, force them to back off, and auto them a few times, back off myself, and keep the ball where it is or move it horizontally (but always separating enemy from the wave). As for the position of the ball, I don't really know what to tell you except to always remember where you moved it last. A lot of the time if I'm not vigilant I would miss kills or assists just because it took 5 years for my Q to move the ball where I wanted it to go, whereas if I just constantly moved it closer to myself or used E on someone closer, my Q would have made it in time.
4. As for using Orianna's passive you just auto them while standing in your own wave or harass them from the side (away from the creep wave). Use your E and QW accordingly to protect yourself while doing damage, and always keep river warded (you really don't want to get caught with QE on cooldown).
As for you mentioning a grail rush not giving you any damage, I think you're just getting it a bit too late. I've done grail rushes before and if you can get it by like 12-14 minutes or something, you can constantly spam QW even without blue, and clear waves very easily.
Actually vs ad mids you want to get double dorans off of a cloth 4red/1blue start. The double dorans gives u a nice hp pad,plenty of regen, and the power to push your lane or 1v1 the kha/zed or whoever it may be. If you go tear you propose zero threat vs the enemy laner and cannot push your lane as fast as you need to in order to prevent roaming. From there out just go deathcap into zhonya. You can get your nomicon or grail as your 3rd/4th item.
Thanks for the whole info. About the drings into deathcap versus AD mids, doesn't that give you pretty low mana regen during sieges and teamfights, on top of pretty late CDR?
On June 29 2013 01:44 Alaric wrote: Thanks for the whole info. About the drings into deathcap versus AD mids, doesn't that give you pretty low mana regen during sieges and teamfights, on top of pretty late CDR?
your cdr is a little later and your regen is lower during sieges but blue will remedy that until u get grail. If you don't go the doran route you give the enemy ad laner too much freedom to pressure your other lanes/jungle as well as the ability to bully you around in lane. A zed or kha left un-checked early to mid game is too big of a threat to your team.
On June 29 2013 01:44 Alaric wrote: Thanks for the whole info. About the drings into deathcap versus AD mids, doesn't that give you pretty low mana regen during sieges and teamfights, on top of pretty late CDR?
your cdr is a little later and your regen is lower during sieges but blue will remedy that until u get grail. If you don't go the doran route you give the enemy ad laner too much freedom to pressure your other lanes/jungle as well as the ability to bully you around in lane. A zed or kha left un-checked early to mid game is too big of a threat to your team.
Against the ad mids I've gone tear dorans into zhonyas with good success. Sorry about omitting Drings I didn't intend to sound like I went tear straight into morellos
BTW, against AD mids, the cloth armor start isn't really that great. Mana regen is really useful on Ori and also you get armor from your E. Against a super aggro level 2 AD mid, I can see it (Lee sin, etc) but I think dorans, boots, flask are all viable against a majority of AD mids.
On June 29 2013 09:42 KissBlade wrote: BTW, against AD mids, the cloth armor start isn't really that great. Mana regen is really useful on Ori and also you get armor from your E. Against a super aggro level 2 AD mid, I can see it (Lee sin, etc) but I think dorans, boots, flask are all viable against a majority of AD mids.
Honestly Ori is one of those champs that can just sit back and farm safely, so a dorans + 2 pots is the best start. She can't really be killed early unless she decides to turn melee.
On June 28 2013 23:01 Alaric wrote: TL;DR: 1. 21-0-9, Magic or Hybrid pen / armour / MR / AP, QEW R>Q>W>E as generic set-up, yes/no? 2. Chalice core, Seeker's first/early if against an AD champ, then rely on blue buff (and positioning to survive) for CDR while building more damage since completing an early Grail isn't worth it anymore? 3. How do I position the ball exactly? Hit it to punish an early last hit, then weave around it to make that place dangerous and control where the enemy laner stands to last hit? So despite the range (and your lack of escape) don't hesitate to stand in the middle of the lane if that lets you zone the enemy laner? 4. How to use that passive? It incites you to auto several times in a row, but should I just auto once when they last hit or their CDs are down and retreat to avoid aggro, or try to get an auto in then keep them going to win a trade? The creep wave is safer against skillshots, but should I stand aside so I can try to QW people and abuse the slow to chase and auto them without drawing aggro?
1. I like scaling health because I feel like it's more useful than armor yellows, personal preference really. I also have a seperate rune page for going vs AD mids, which does have armor runes on it though. Vs Ad mids, I like getting cloth5, armor yellow page, 21/9/0, and E first just so I dont fuck up the lane in the first two levels. Seems a bit excessive, but it helps a lot in trades and making sure he won't be able to completely zone you out.
You should also consider movement quints, because ori has one of the slowest base movement speed in the game. Its gotten to a point where I dont care about the initial +15 AP because the move speed lets you kite and chase better.
2. I do crystal + pots or pot/ward vs most people. I just try to out sustain them in trades so my ball has more zoning power. First back get chalice+boots+wards, then decide if you need mres, armor, health, or AP. Most of the time you'll be grail rushing; I just get whatever I can afford and go back to lane quickly. CDR + mana regen makes ori extremely powerful in sieges and sustained damage. My core is grail+dcap for easy lanes, cata/tear for farm lanes, and seeker/cata for very difficult AD lanes. You want to stay away from the last core if you can and use the 2nd core instead; although there are times where a zhonya is better than the seraphs. If you're playing a team that is meant to kill the carries, i'd even consider getting tear/cata/zhonya.
3. The bread and butter ori zone is Q+AA+AA or just Q+AA every time they go for a CS. Prioritize your own CS first though. Use the ball to CS the ones you can't reach . You're rarely going to be able to just use the ball to zone since the mana/damage ratio isn't really worth it. When you have a lot of mana, you can do QE+AAs to negate minion aggro. So basically, you just want to position your ball in such a way that it will guarantee a hit, and position yourself so you can follow it up with at least 1 AA. You don't want a complete zone because you'd most likely be overextending, but its basically just moving around your ball.
4. QW+AAs is only for kiting; you need to be in melee range (200-400 range) for you to land more than 2 autos. A trick you can use if they're in true melee range is W (or QEW if the ball isnt on you) AAs+Q as he's running away (easier to hit the Q that way). Wins every single trade unless the other person is cassiopia and you got hit by poison. Plus, saving the W for the speed up is a lot more useful than the damge at low lvs. I find this completely counters nid's cat form in particular if you position your self correctly. Always make sure your EW is up if you didnt ward anything for escapes. I tend to skip on wards, which is why I rarely harass with QW.
I just realized that hybrid penetration marks only grants 2.3 less mpen than magic pen marks in return for 8.1 additional armor pen. I figure I should just switch to all hybrid, especially when laning against melee assassins like Akali or Diana before level 6.
On July 04 2013 09:38 AsianEcksDragon wrote: I just realized that hybrid penetration marks only grants 2.3 less mpen than magic pen marks in return for 8.1 additional armor pen. I figure I should just switch to all hybrid, especially when laning against melee assassins like Akali or Diana before level 6.
On July 04 2013 13:42 sylverfyre wrote: They're incredible, though they also create a bigger burden on your runepages (there's a few champs I wish I were running raw MPen on.)
In practice I almost exclusively end up using armor seals when using hybrid pen, since you'll be trading autos/drawing minion aggro a lot. I think you can get by with a single page.
On July 04 2013 13:42 sylverfyre wrote: They're incredible, though they also create a bigger burden on your runepages (there's a few champs I wish I were running raw MPen on.)
In practice I almost exclusively end up using armor seals when using hybrid pen, since you'll be trading autos/drawing minion aggro a lot. I think you can get by with a single page.
Truthfully i only really think you'd need 2. The page where you'll want MS quints or AP quints, should be the only other one imo.
Armor seals should be in all but your most niche page anyway. I don't see any other seals being more useful now that even champs like Akali don't require specific setups. Hybrid pens also have more widespread use than most people think, at least more than just on Kennen, Kayle, and Teemo. You can run it on any ranged AP caster vs. Melee and ranged support vs. melee support. Lulu especially wrecks Taric, Alistar, and Leona with them. You can just use a single page for both these roles.
On July 12 2013 13:07 onlywonderboy wrote: I generally max W but every Ori in OGN maxes Q (and Toyz did as well back in the Season 2 finals). Is Q max really better in almost all circumstances?
I think it gives better zone control. You can just Q all day. Its Cooldown gets to like 1.5S with CDR, and W's CD doesn't lower with skills + Q's mana cost doesnt go up while W's does.
On July 12 2013 13:07 onlywonderboy wrote: I generally max W but every Ori in OGN maxes Q (and Toyz did as well back in the Season 2 finals). Is Q max really better in almost all circumstances?
Orianna's weakness arises when she can not move her ball via Q or E. Leveling Q decreases the cooldown of the skill, adds damage, and if I'm not mistaken also has a flat mana cost. Since you're most likely not maxing E first or even second, it's pretty important that you max Q so you can have minimal down time in re-positioning your ball.
Yeah I prefer maxing Q too, like mentioned it gives u way better zone control. Getting a second level in W lvl 5 or lvl 7 is nice if the matchup is going really well. The extra slow allows you to put in some more autos as well in the trade.
On July 12 2013 13:07 onlywonderboy wrote: I generally max W but every Ori in OGN maxes Q (and Toyz did as well back in the Season 2 finals). Is Q max really better in almost all circumstances?
Just try using a 6s cd Q against a decent Lee, Kass, Ahri, or worse Zed. Hell, even Jayce would just RQ at you if you try to Q him. x)
Since I've been asking a bunch of questions and stuff previously, and have spammed Orianna games since, might as well give a bit myself from what I got ('cept that I suck, because that one is a given):
- While using Q to reposition the ball and zone can be interesting once you have some mana/mana regen, before your first back you should aim at hitting the enemy laner with every Q early on, it taxes your mana too much to be "wasted" on repositioning.
- Despite Orianna's lack of escapes, it's quickly annoying to go and ward during the first minutes of the game because you'll lose the ball's positioning (another 50 mana burnt), so I went from charm/2 wards/3 health pots/mana pot to charm/ward/3 health pots/3 mana pots and the difference is huge. Warding one side is enough, and I've found that despite only getting 200 mana (eg. 4 Q casts) out of the potions, as I usually went oom after reaching level 3-4 right as my opponent is under tower with a biggish wave on my side, these few casts let you put down a huge amount of pressure as your opponent tries to last hit with autos and you can punish him (if you warded).
- Depending on match-up or jungler, starting Dring+2 pots or charm+ward and pots are possible when against an AD mid. The mana regen (and AP for a dring) definitely does more for you than the armour since you can go on the offensive at level 1, and E at level 2 gives you some armour and shield to make use of the superior harass/dps from your passive. Double dring+Tear into Seeker's or Deathcap both seemed workable depending on the flow of the game. Against heavy AD teams I often found myself going Tabi, or even Tabi+Zhonya as first big items (after Tear), using the dps from Orianna and trying to kite would easily make up for the loss of Sorcs during later fights once I was able to survive the burst danger from midgame fights where these AD comps are at their highest point.
- E's resistances are so damn strong when you're tanking people with 150+ armour and your shield despite having less than 2k HP.
- Never ever use E unless needed (or you're ahead and you just E yourself and run at the enemy to auto him). It's a drain on your mana (bigger than Q!) with little damage (thus clearing) and with a ~5s window for free damage once it wears down. Even once you have mana and CDR, don't do stuff like QWE to farm while keeping the ball on you, it's terribly inefficient.
- Once your Q or E is on cooldown, having to burn the other can put you in a very bad position if you miss it or your opponent gets in range to damage you anyway. Everytime it happens, consider yourself punished/outplayed/whatever. Something went wrong.
- Even in teamfights, especially in soloQ, watch carefully the cooldown on your spells because you definitely don't want your Hecarim/Malphite/etc. initiating after you Q'd the ball out of them with E on cooldown. It's important to be sure what you role is at any point (eg. poking with Q and W, or setting up an initiation through positioning close enough to the enemy with the ball on your initiator).
- Her roaming is actually pretty potent since she pushes hard, and roamers themselves can be punished by using this pushing to get their tower.
- Positioning is important. Not only on the ball, but with your low base MS you don't want to have to burn W to reach the river/jungle/etc. in time to E an ally and thus lose a good 40% of your burst. In the same way, if you're low on mana and getting ganked you want the ball to back to you asap so there's less chances to get cc'd before you can W under yourself and run.
Might want to add that whenever possible to use Q to reposition the ball closer to yourself or whoever you need to E. I can't tell you how many times I tried to shield myself or someone else, just to have to wait for the ball to take 6 years to get there.
What about Tear on Ori ? Lately I haven't seen that many people buying it, some people tell me to buy it, some guides don't, etc... So what's its actual state ? Is it worth ? If yes, when and why ?
On August 22 2013 11:11 Sakray wrote: What about Tear on Ori ? Lately I haven't seen that many people buying it, some people tell me to buy it, some guides don't, etc... So what's its actual state ? Is it worth ? If yes, when and why ?
If somehow you get aa plus Morello I think its really good. But, athenes is so much easier.
Archangels Staff. If you get tear you obviously are going to go for that. But you need that (2700 G) + Morellos (2200 G) (total 4900 G) for it to really start working for Ori. Athenes is 2600 G, and that Means you can basically have AA + Morello or Athene + NLR + 700 G (almost a blasting wand, or amp tome + cloth armor if you are going towards Hourglass).
At that point the two builds (Chalice vs. Tear) are similar in power for Ori, but the problem for the tear build, is that at 2600 G (completed Athenes) the chalice build is basically ready to go, while the tear build needs 300 more gold to get tear + Morello, plus needs stacks on the tear to equal Athene's spamming prowess.
On August 22 2013 11:11 Sakray wrote: What about Tear on Ori ? Lately I haven't seen that many people buying it, some people tell me to buy it, some guides don't, etc... So what's its actual state ? Is it worth ? If yes, when and why ?
There's no CDR on Seraph's and though the shield seems like a decent mix with your E, it's mediocre. Just get athene's, the CDR really shows its power.
Don't forget the 3% maxmana->AP on AA/Seraph's. (>120 AP gained from it in total). I do agree CDR is very powerful, but you can look at a few LCS games where Oriannas went for Tear->DC->AA and really really devastated.
Dunno, I found that dring+Tear start (into Zhonya, relying on blue buff for CDR) was more efficient than Chalice against AD mids. I'd rather get 1-2 early drings, drop 700 gold to solve my mana problems, then work toward Zhonya if I'm against a Zed, so I can use the extra HP and AP to trade with him before 6 and establish control of the lane, rather than sit on just MR and mp5 that won't do anything for me against him. (It's Zed so you can't control the lane since he can snoozefest farm it for free and then outpush and outroam you as soon as he finishes an item, but he's not the only AD we see in mid.)
On August 22 2013 21:10 Duvon wrote: Don't forget the 3% maxmana->AP on AA/Seraph's. (>120 AP gained from it in total). I do agree CDR is very powerful, but you can look at a few LCS games where Oriannas went for Tear->DC->AA and really really devastated.
Yeah it would probably be a viable choice, if they hadn't nerfed tear to the ground.
I honestly feel that AD's aren't that big of a deal versus ori, because of her immense poke, and the fact that she's safe in lane. You can always rush seeker's armguard with 1 dring and then get athene's after with sorc shoes in between. Just make sure not to play too agressive before armguard and you should be fine tbh.
On August 22 2013 21:10 Duvon wrote: Don't forget the 3% maxmana->AP on AA/Seraph's. (>120 AP gained from it in total). I do agree CDR is very powerful, but you can look at a few LCS games where Oriannas went for Tear->DC->AA and really really devastated.
Yeah it would probably be a viable choice, if they hadn't nerfed tear to the ground.
I honestly feel that AD's aren't that big of a deal versus ori, because of her immense poke, and the fact that she's safe in lane. You can always rush seeker's armguard with 1 dring and then get athene's after with sorc shoes in between. Just make sure not to play too agressive before armguard and you should be fine tbh.
Tear was hardly nerfed for most champions. While the cooldown per charge was increased from 3 to 4, you can charge it twice before it's disabled. In other words, you can charge it twice per 8 seconds starting from the first charge. For Ori, that's not really an issue since you're gated by cooldowns anyways. It only really severely impacted champs with very low cooldown/skill spamming. Tear is still a good item, especially considering how Archangels was buffed pretty significantly to allow much much faster charging (8 mana per charge up from 6). It's honestly not a bad idea to turn your Tear into Archangels very soon as opposed to pre-3.9 where you usually wanted to just hold off upgrading until Tear was maxed out.
I recently started playing ori(shifting champ pool to something more useful), and things I learned/thoughts
- People will give you shit for missing an ori ult(justified), or not hitting godlike ones everytime(why did you ulti 2 tanks). - Eing an initiator isn't always the best way to get a good ori ulti. Good way to get ball in position, but often still needs adjustment. - Keeping track of two things at once is pretty hard, but rewarding. - Usually easier to hit a good ori ulti if people walk into it. People actually spread out a lot when just dancing around waiting for initiation.
Haven't tried tear builds yet. I don't really see the need for one though, she doesn't run through a pool very quickly, unless you're aiming for a max damage build. Would probably be situationally useful, especially in more competitive settings..
I have tried
Doran's chalice->athenes dcap etc. - probably the most standard build, safety and ability to farm even without blue. double dorans morello's+guise>dcap - this build is absolutely brutal early on. Hit a multi man ori ult and just win fights with that combo alone.
It feels like these two builds are probably the best for fighting early on, although obviously athenes is a somewhat slot-inefficient item come lategame, but it allows you to live without blue. She's actually deals pretty high sustained DPS, and kites beautifully, and with the prevalence of j4 and zac, pretty much always has a good ball delivery system. Definitely a much more well rounded pick than anivia(although I still love bird).
Is there any way to win the lane against ahri without vastly outplaying? I know in competitive play ahri generally beats ori, but any tips on the matchup?
Tear builds are generally for AD or burst heavy teams where a zhonya is not enough. Not used very often though.
As for ori vs ahri, easiest way is to bait out as many Qs as you can and save up your mana. Ahri oom's extremely quickly pre6 if she uses her spells liberally. Once you have like a 250-300 mana advantage on her, go all-in when you hit a QW. Other than that, you have to seriously outplay an ahri in order to beat her. E auto cheese at lv1 will also beat overly aggressive or stupid ahris. Good ahris will not do anything pre6 though. Post 6, just keep your distance from her and hope she sucks at landing her skillshots. If you have better items than her, she probably wont be able to 1combo you and you can probably trade with her with her ult up. Would rather not risk it if i dont have to though. If you do have to fight that, just Q her, EW yourself. Dont try to land QW on her with her ult on. AFter she burns everything, and if u have enough health (above 1/3), then u can try to turn it on her.
My main issue with her is the ball's placement, I try to have it close to my opponent so I can hit him with it everytime but's if it's too far away, I feel I have to use mana to bring it closer so I can hit them next, ti's kinda tricky tbh. Also why when there's an Ori in the enemy team, 1 comobo from her means -90% hp during midgame, but when it's me with the same stuff it's roughly -50% xD
On August 23 2013 23:45 Sakray wrote: My main issue with her is the ball's placement, I try to have it close to my opponent so I can hit him with it everytime but's if it's too far away, I feel I have to use mana to bring it closer so I can hit them next, ti's kinda tricky tbh. Also why when there's an Ori in the enemy team, 1 comobo from her means -90% hp during midgame, but when it's me with the same stuff it's roughly -50% xD
probably cause they other guy's farming more so he hits item timings earlier. Also consider the item path the other ori's going. Ori's versatile enough that you can go for like a grail -> cap+void or a more conservative tear -> morello + aa/zhonya. Obviously one of these item paths will do significantly more damage but offer less spammability (without blue) and protection.
As for ball placement you want to always position with Q so that it's almost cutting the other laner from his own ranged minions so when he goes to cs you can easily do a QW and follow up with a few autos.
Honestly I think you just have to ban zed and ahri if you want to play ori. Both of them can just outplay the fuck out of you so easily once they hit 6(unless you're faker). You can win lane pre-6 vs both fairly easily(zed I just take an early point in E), but post 6 it's such a stupidly one sided matchup.
On August 30 2013 18:13 Amui wrote: Honestly I think you just have to ban zed and ahri if you want to play ori. Both of them can just outplay the fuck out of you so easily once they hit 6(unless you're faker). You can win lane pre-6 vs both fairly easily(zed I just take an early point in E), but post 6 it's such a stupidly one sided matchup.
Ori can 1v1 them fine and still live, its just you're super screwed if you get ganked cause ahri and zed have massive killing power.
vs Zed you can just EWR yourself and get away before he gets bork. Once he gets that item, then he can kill everyone, not just you.
vs Ahri, you just hide in the minions and wait for her to blow her charm. Her base damage is actually really shitty, so you can 1v1 her before she gets any AP items.
On August 30 2013 18:13 Amui wrote: Honestly I think you just have to ban zed and ahri if you want to play ori. Both of them can just outplay the fuck out of you so easily once they hit 6(unless you're faker). You can win lane pre-6 vs both fairly easily(zed I just take an early point in E), but post 6 it's such a stupidly one sided matchup.
You can easily beat Zed as long as you survive his burst. Just skill E > Q > W and build Armguard. Zed's ult has a fairly long animation and deals no initial damage so you have time to put the ball on yourself for the Armor and shield. Kite with autoattacks and then Q + W combo him if he starts backing away. A lot of people like to take barrier but it's really not worth it because summoner's CDs are too long to be helpful.
Ahri is a little more tricky but if you wait for her to blow her Q, you can go up for a Q harass. Otherwise, farm safely behind minion and avoid getting charmed.
On August 22 2013 21:10 Duvon wrote: Don't forget the 3% maxmana->AP on AA/Seraph's. (>120 AP gained from it in total). I do agree CDR is very powerful, but you can look at a few LCS games where Oriannas went for Tear->DC->AA and really really devastated.
But it's competing with your second major item in the competing Athene's build, which is often a Deathcap (also >120 AP)
Tear DC AA doesn't give you any CDR aside from blue, and with only low CDR + only a tear for mana you won't have the mana available to stack your tear efficiently enough when you don't have blue - greatly delaying your ">120 AP" (with 1k mana you'll only have 90 AP) + seraph transformation power spike. We come back to the "Athenes and you're ready to go" conundrum. Do you want to be strong at the 10 minute mark or at the 30 minute mark?
If you're ever in a hard lane with Ori, just get a few extra early levels of E. E gives passive armor/mr stats when the ball is on you as well as the shield so it's helpful for letting you live. Staying alive>getting more levels of W.
You only have trouble charging your tear at first, but as soon as you get some more mana it helps charging itself. Considering the cooldown changes it's not like you have to spam a bunch to charge a lot of mana anyway (longer cd, aa gives more mana per proc).
On August 31 2013 03:21 Ryuu314 wrote: If you're ever in a hard lane with Ori, just get a few extra early levels of E. E gives passive armor/mr stats when the ball is on you as well as the shield so it's helpful for letting you live. Staying alive>getting more levels of W.
Is it worth it though? I spendthe majority of the time without the ball on me, using it to zone, sitting it in side bush ala ward, csing etc.
On August 31 2013 03:21 Ryuu314 wrote: If you're ever in a hard lane with Ori, just get a few extra early levels of E. E gives passive armor/mr stats when the ball is on you as well as the shield so it's helpful for letting you live. Staying alive>getting more levels of W.
Is it worth it though? I spendthe majority of the time without the ball on me, using it to zone, sitting it in side bush ala ward, csing etc.
Depends on how much upfront damage your opponent has. If it's Zed then you can afford to do it because his death mark doesn't trigger right away. Against someone like Diana or Talon, you want that ball on your at all time because they will be jumping through your ball and will try to kill you while your q is on CD. Talon also has a silence so you wont get a chance to apply your shield and armor through the majority of his damage. Just zone them with your autoattack and Alt + E as soon as they Q or jump on you.
So, I played a game with an Orianna mid whose first big items were Void Staff and Liandry's, relying only on a chalice and blue buff for mana regen basically the whole game (she built hat next, and of course she had her sorcerer's shoes). How optimal is this build? At first it seemed really strange to me, but apparently I haven't played Ori enough because she was insta-killing anyone without MR in the mid-late game. I forget who she laned against, but it was some normal AP carry like Ahri or Lux.
I normally build Athene's --> hat first, is the difference in build just preference? Seeing this just intrigued me and I'm wondering how good staff/mask first is.
Orianna's base damage isn't all that high to warrant a straight penetration build. Haunting Guise maybe, I've seen it in Korean games (Gankedbymom notably) but have yet to test it myself. The liandry's I don't particularly agree with, also if she loses her blue buff (enemy counterjungling) or gets heavily dived by someone with a visage + hp items this build will be kind of shitty.
On September 05 2013 00:57 InfSunday wrote: So, I played a game with an Orianna mid whose first big items were Void Staff and Liandry's, relying only on a chalice and blue buff for mana regen basically the whole game (she built hat next, and of course she had her sorcerer's shoes). How optimal is this build? At first it seemed really strange to me, but apparently I haven't played Ori enough because she was insta-killing anyone without MR in the mid-late game. I forget who she laned against, but it was some normal AP carry like Ahri or Lux.
I normally build Athene's --> hat first, is the difference in build just preference? Seeing this just intrigued me and I'm wondering how good staff/mask first is.
I have been feeling like you don't need to rush CDR with max Q you can throw your ball around like every 3 seconds anyway. vs AP in think go chalice > deathcap or zhonyas > haunting guise (or haunting guise first), and vs AD replace chalice with tear and get a quick seekers.
Getting a big ap item after chalice/tear makes sense to me if you are farming well/not dieing, big increase to damage and your shield benefits from the AP. if im not doing so well in lane ill get haunting guise before finishing deathcap or zhonyas.
best way: athenes rush > dcap against a dive heavy team: Tear > zhonyas> maybe guise> whatever against difficult lane that is not AD: chalice>guise>whatever
guise is bought for the health. Void staff is a poor man's dcap.
I don't particularly agree with GBM's build but he makes a tanky ori with a lot of utility with the rylai slow and doesn't suffer too much in the damage department given the double mpen items. He's also on Frost so he's gotta be doing something right.
The most common ori build is chalice into Athenes and then situational items like cap/hourglass/what have you. The cdr and mana regen on Athenes is really a little too good to pass up for someone like Orianna
GBM likes to power spike ori with double dorans into chalice, fast sorc boots before chalice, or guise after chalice, whereas most ori's will just rush straight to athenes with boots. Depending on the situation, he will usually delay his athenes for like 5-10 minutes just to ensure he is winning his lane and that he is a major contributor in the teamfights and decide whether or not his team needs a tanky utility mid or a DPS mid. Athene stats are awesome, but it doesn't snowball orianna at higher levels.
Combine this masteries setup with MS quints and hybrid pen marks and you outdamage and outmobility most champs in lane.
Haven't tried the runes but I can attest to using these masteries. It's obnoxious how much damage you do to people if you autoattack a lot in lane, I don't know how but Orianna has become an even bigger lane bully in the preseason. Plus with the shield/passive armor and magic resist when the ball is on you during trades it feels like you don't lose much from not having anything in the defense tree.
I've started picking her up again in Gold II and have been doing extremely well against everyone I play. /brag
Anyone tried her as support? Orianna is my favorite mid laner but mid lane is my least favorite so I was wondering if she'd work as support with the new gold income.
On November 29 2013 02:07 Zhiroo wrote: Anyone tried her as support? Orianna is my favorite mid laner but mid lane is my least favorite so I was wondering if she'd work as support with the new gold income.
i did
i feel like it would have worked better if i played orianna on the regular
the main problem i had is she is really mana limited without blue so you have to get the coin instead of the spell thing or traditional supports will just outpoke you
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2ewwb.jpg)
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