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You cant blame a guy for earning millions of money  He is doing everything right. I hate the CoD products myself and its a money machine, but its us the consumers who are at a blame. If the Call of Duty series would sell poorly they would try another direction with the games.
But the problem is that they have no other competition, so games like Call of Duty and Battlefield stand completely own in theyre genre. So we just buy them cause there are no other games to play like that. The ArmA series are the only ones who can compete with Battlefield and 100% destroy it, but its PC only.
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On April 28 2013 14:59 yandere991 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 14:55 sluggaslamoo wrote:On April 28 2013 14:40 yandere991 wrote:
It vests over 5 years and its stock based awards. That is roughly 10 mill variable pay per year without NPV taking effect. Hardly the sensationalist 800% raise. Yeah you're right, its hardly anything. If I had 55 mill I would want to spend that in a year. On April 28 2013 14:48 Klipsys wrote:On April 28 2013 14:45 sluggaslamoo wrote:On April 28 2013 14:37 wUndertUnge wrote:On April 28 2013 14:36 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Meanwhile Activision developers are struggling to make a living... See that's what I'm trying to figure out. What are their salaries? Does this man really deserve all fo that compensation? Shouldn't it go to the people actually doing the work? Being a game developer for the giants (except probably Blizzard/Valve) leads to a pretty terrible lifestyle. You basically get paid almost a minimum wage even though you are much more qualified and more deserving than the rest of the population.Most developers such as myself, started out wanting to become game developers and then came to the shocking realisation that its not what its cracked up to be and shifted to much more lucrative careers in the software development industry like web-development, where you can work normal hours and get paid 4 times as much. More deserving....? MORE DESERVING? You think that developers are more deserving that say, oh; teachers, nurses, police/EMS/Firefighters, social workers, single moms, peacecorps, habitat for humanity, big brothers/bigsisters etc... How in the...? They make computer games Stop being ignorant. Making computer games might sound fun, but the reality is the complete opposite for a lot of people. Being humanitarian has nothing to do with making money, money should go to people who put in the most effort, the hardest working developers are games developers, and its a tougher industry than all those jobs you mentioned combined. Becoming a Teacher is a 3 year course, becoming a programmer is a whole lifestyle. Did teachers painstakingly spend hours and hours every day after highschool sacrificing their social life so they could learn how to program in C++? No they probably went out to parties and had a social life like everyone else. Do they work 16-20 hour days during crunch time and never get to see their family for weeks, while your diet consists of cans of soda and cheetos? No teachers work less hours than even normal employees. Ignorance is bliss isn't it? So investment bankers deserve to be paid the most then going by your logic considering they absolutely shit on game developers in terms of hours worked per week. Hell I doubt game developers work harder than big4 auditors.
I worked 14+ hour days this whole week to make a milestone. Fuck you.
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Rarely does anyone actually deserve to be making this kind of money, not to mention the fact that no one could spend this much money in one lifetime.
This self righteous indignation is disgusting. The fact that people actually believe this kind of thing is mind boggling. People deserve to make as much money as somebody else is willing to pay them. Period. I'd wager there isn't a nerd on the internet who would decline Kotick's paycheck for services rendered.
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Everyone's dissing while in fact, if he wasn't on the helm, the company might be totally screwed now, like some other from the industry.
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On April 28 2013 14:55 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 14:40 yandere991 wrote:
It vests over 5 years and its stock based awards. That is roughly 10 mill variable pay per year without NPV taking effect. Hardly the sensationalist 800% raise. Yeah you're right, its hardly anything. If I had 55 mill I would want to spend that in a year. Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 14:48 Klipsys wrote:On April 28 2013 14:45 sluggaslamoo wrote:On April 28 2013 14:37 wUndertUnge wrote:On April 28 2013 14:36 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Meanwhile Activision developers are struggling to make a living... See that's what I'm trying to figure out. What are their salaries? Does this man really deserve all fo that compensation? Shouldn't it go to the people actually doing the work? Being a game developer for the giants (except probably Blizzard/Valve) leads to a pretty terrible lifestyle. You basically get paid almost a minimum wage even though you are much more qualified and more deserving than the rest of the population.Most developers such as myself, started out wanting to become game developers and then came to the shocking realisation that its not what its cracked up to be and shifted to much more lucrative careers in the software development industry like web-development, where you can work normal hours and get paid 4 times as much. More deserving....? MORE DESERVING? You think that developers are more deserving that say, oh; teachers, nurses, police/EMS/Firefighters, social workers, single moms, peacecorps, habitat for humanity, big brothers/bigsisters etc... How in the...? They make computer games Stop being ignorant. Making computer games might sound fun, but the reality is the complete opposite for a lot of people. Being humanitarian has nothing to do with making money, money should go to people who put in the most effort, the hardest working developers are games developers, and its a tougher industry than all those jobs you mentioned combined. Becoming a Teacher is a 3 year course, becoming a programmer is a whole lifestyle. Did teachers painstakingly spend hours and hours every day after highschool sacrificing their social life so they could learn how to program in C++? No they probably went out to parties and had a social life like everyone else. Do they work 16-20 hour days during crunch time and never get to see their family for weeks, while your diet consists of cans of soda and cheetos? No teachers work less hours than even normal employees. Yet they probably get paid about the same amount. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?
It doesn't matter if you work hard or not. It's all about supply and demand. If there's a big supply of game developers, it's natural that their salary will go down. Joe the Game Programmer can be replaced easily by Dan the Game Programmer in just couple day. On the other hand, experienced CEO are not that many, it's very hard to find another one, especially in the same field business, to replace him. Moreover, for example, if you, a random Joe, have 2 offers to be hired as a programmer and as a CEO, what would you choose? We can joke around and stuff, but in the end of the day, random dude like us will just choose to be programmer and not CEO, because we all know that CEO is a much tougher job and lots of responsibility.
And I can tell you that not all game developers are that good, or their jobs are that hard. In one company, only top tip developers are important, the rest are disposable and most of the time they only do what we call monkey jobs. You work long hour and code and stuff, but most of the time you just repeat what you already do thousands of time, aka flipping burger.
Another point is you can't just not reward your CEO. If you have good years and make profit, you have the responsibility to reward your CEO. It's not only an incentive for CEO to stick around, but also to please your shareholders and stock. Imagine if your company is making money, but CEO doesn't get rewarded and end up joining competitive company. Not only your company's stock will drop dramatically, but your shareholders will begin to worry about the future of the company.
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On April 28 2013 16:50 Jaeger wrote:
I worked 14+ hour days this whole week to make a milestone. Fuck you.
That sounds really depressing 
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On April 28 2013 17:03 grtgrt1 wrote:
Everyone's dissing while in fact, if he wasn't on the helm, the company might be totally screwed now, like some other from the industry.
He hasn't done anything new in years. No new IP, no new features, no new services. Their success is coming from purchases they've made in the past 5 years and putting them on a yearly release schedule.
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On April 28 2013 17:17 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 17:03 grtgrt1 wrote:
Everyone's dissing while in fact, if he wasn't on the helm, the company might be totally screwed now, like some other from the industry. He hasn't done anything new in years. No new IP, no new features, no new services. Their success is coming from purchases they've made in the past 5 years and putting them on a yearly release schedule.
And yet making purchases of ip/companies is exactly what his job is to do. His job as ceo isn't to come up with new ideas for video games.
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He's probably doing something right.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AWTsYub.png)
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On April 28 2013 15:06 esperanto wrote:
I always wondered how the higher management gets away with numbers like this. The developement of Diablo 2 cost about 6 Mio. You would be able to make 5 to 10 brilliant games with this money, but instead you give it to one guy for his "brilliant" decisionmaking.
Dont get me wrong, I like the idea that good work makes good money. But in cases like this the diffrence to what a normal game designer gets is just rediculous.
Yes, this is what I'm saying. The guy might be a brilliant speculator and mover of products. People have brought up the fact that it's all just stock options, and I don't know much about money (read: I'm broke). Still, where is this money coming from? And if there is money being generated through stocks, where is that money coming from and where is it going? It's not (totally) about Kotick being undeserving, but all of that money going into his pockets is money that could be used for other things, no?
The whole separation between the good and the stock and the commercial aspect is baffling to me. They call him the Chief Executive Operator, but what does he operate really? Anyways, creatives over corporations any day. (That's my bias)
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On April 28 2013 17:03 grtgrt1 wrote:
Everyone's dissing while in fact, if he wasn't on the helm, the company might be totally screwed now, like some other from the industry.
Might win the fight. Might say goodnight.
The problem with contrafactual argumentation is its uncertainty. Now, you can claim that the company might go bankrupt, without him doing x and that is fair. But you cannot say anything in general about him as a CEO without having extensive knowledge about his choices. A more than 100 % increase in wage is pretty massssive. With a crisis and all, it is the wrong timing to get those extra money anyway.
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United States432 Posts
"must be doing something right"
Continuing the CoD franchise every year is enough.
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On April 28 2013 16:50 Jaeger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 14:59 yandere991 wrote:On April 28 2013 14:55 sluggaslamoo wrote:On April 28 2013 14:40 yandere991 wrote:
It vests over 5 years and its stock based awards. That is roughly 10 mill variable pay per year without NPV taking effect. Hardly the sensationalist 800% raise. Yeah you're right, its hardly anything. If I had 55 mill I would want to spend that in a year. On April 28 2013 14:48 Klipsys wrote:On April 28 2013 14:45 sluggaslamoo wrote:On April 28 2013 14:37 wUndertUnge wrote:On April 28 2013 14:36 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Meanwhile Activision developers are struggling to make a living... See that's what I'm trying to figure out. What are their salaries? Does this man really deserve all fo that compensation? Shouldn't it go to the people actually doing the work? Being a game developer for the giants (except probably Blizzard/Valve) leads to a pretty terrible lifestyle. You basically get paid almost a minimum wage even though you are much more qualified and more deserving than the rest of the population.Most developers such as myself, started out wanting to become game developers and then came to the shocking realisation that its not what its cracked up to be and shifted to much more lucrative careers in the software development industry like web-development, where you can work normal hours and get paid 4 times as much. More deserving....? MORE DESERVING? You think that developers are more deserving that say, oh; teachers, nurses, police/EMS/Firefighters, social workers, single moms, peacecorps, habitat for humanity, big brothers/bigsisters etc... How in the...? They make computer games Stop being ignorant. Making computer games might sound fun, but the reality is the complete opposite for a lot of people. Being humanitarian has nothing to do with making money, money should go to people who put in the most effort, the hardest working developers are games developers, and its a tougher industry than all those jobs you mentioned combined. Becoming a Teacher is a 3 year course, becoming a programmer is a whole lifestyle. Did teachers painstakingly spend hours and hours every day after highschool sacrificing their social life so they could learn how to program in C++? No they probably went out to parties and had a social life like everyone else. Do they work 16-20 hour days during crunch time and never get to see their family for weeks, while your diet consists of cans of soda and cheetos? No teachers work less hours than even normal employees. Ignorance is bliss isn't it? So investment bankers deserve to be paid the most then going by your logic considering they absolutely shit on game developers in terms of hours worked per week. Hell I doubt game developers work harder than big4 auditors. I worked 14+ hour days this whole week to make a milestone. Fuck you.
I work from 8 - 8 on normal weeks and I am only a consultant (not big4). When things go crunch time and travelling is involved weekends are off the table and things go furry. I wouldn't even compare my working hours with IBers.
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On April 28 2013 16:51 Joedaddy wrote:Show nested quote +Rarely does anyone actually deserve to be making this kind of money, not to mention the fact that no one could spend this much money in one lifetime. This self righteous indignation is disgusting. The fact that people actually believe this kind of thing is mind boggling. People deserve to make as much money as somebody else is willing to pay them. Period. I'd wager there isn't a nerd on the internet who would decline Kotick's paycheck for services rendered.
That is the logical approach in a capitalist society, which is fine but definitely not the only approach or even the "correct approach" for many I guess.
I am not fully sold on that, there is a valid discussion to be had about how much is too much considering his position and the actual "output he as a person has" without drifting into some sort of class warfare.
He should be paid a shitton of money as CEO whose company does really really well - more than he could spend without having absurd spending habits, but a 800% raise is just absurd in times of crisis.
Even this GMI ratings lady said that this sort of compensation is rather unprecedented in the video gaming industry.
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On April 28 2013 17:33 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 16:51 Joedaddy wrote:Rarely does anyone actually deserve to be making this kind of money, not to mention the fact that no one could spend this much money in one lifetime. This self righteous indignation is disgusting. The fact that people actually believe this kind of thing is mind boggling. People deserve to make as much money as somebody else is willing to pay them. Period. I'd wager there isn't a nerd on the internet who would decline Kotick's paycheck for services rendered. That is the logical approach in a capitalist society, which is fine but definitely not the only approach or even the "correct approach" for many I guess. I am not fully sold on that, there is a valid discussion to be had about how much is too much considering his position and the actual "output he as a person has" without drifting into some sort of class warfare. He should be paid a shitton of money as CEO whose company does really really well - more than he could spend without having absurd spending habits, but a 800% raise is just absurd in times of crisis. Even this GMI ratings lady said that this sort of compensation is rather unprecedented in the video gaming industry.
It wasn't a 800% increase. Not even close.
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United States607 Posts
On April 28 2013 14:37 wUndertUnge wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 14:36 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Meanwhile Activision developers are struggling to make a living... See that's what I'm trying to figure out. What are their salaries? Does this man really deserve all of that compensation? Shouldn't it go to the people actually doing the work?
Because then you would be called a utopian anti-american socialist.
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On April 28 2013 14:25 wUndertUnge wrote:
Kotick is due for another $16 million if the company hits performance targets, too. The bulk of his compensation came in the form of stock awards valued at $55.9 million. (Though they vest over the next five years, Activision is required to report them all at once, now.) The cash salary he got was roughly the same as always, $8.33 million."
How about reinvesting some of that money back into the company instead of feeding that fat double-chin of his? Sorry, but this kind of thing makes me so angry. Rarely does anyone actually deserve to be making this kind of money, not to mention the fact that no one could spend this much money in one lifetime. Has Kotick actually made any innovations, or did he just figure out how to turn it into a money machine?
It makes me sad that Blizzard got into bed with these guys.
What is he doing wrong? All you are arguing is that he makes too much by your standards and should spread his earnings. Since when is altruism in a CEO's job description? Most employees don't give a shit about the company they're working for and only care about getting compensated for the work they did. Well this is the CEO's compensation and whether he gives a damn about the distribution of all the earnings is irrelevant.
And by "these guys" do you mean most of the major US companies? Because this issue has been prevalent for a while. That's just one of the depressing realities of unregulated capitalism. Point fingers at "the system" all you want. It's never going to change.
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On April 28 2013 17:34 yandere991 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 17:33 Doublemint wrote:On April 28 2013 16:51 Joedaddy wrote:Rarely does anyone actually deserve to be making this kind of money, not to mention the fact that no one could spend this much money in one lifetime. This self righteous indignation is disgusting. The fact that people actually believe this kind of thing is mind boggling. People deserve to make as much money as somebody else is willing to pay them. Period. I'd wager there isn't a nerd on the internet who would decline Kotick's paycheck for services rendered. That is the logical approach in a capitalist society, which is fine but definitely not the only approach or even the "correct approach" for many I guess. I am not fully sold on that, there is a valid discussion to be had about how much is too much considering his position and the actual "output he as a person has" without drifting into some sort of class warfare. He should be paid a shitton of money as CEO whose company does really really well - more than he could spend without having absurd spending habits, but a 800% raise is just absurd in times of crisis. Even this GMI ratings lady said that this sort of compensation is rather unprecedented in the video gaming industry. It wasn't a 800% increase. Not even close.
The Kotaku article is lying then? If so please elaborate.
//edit: ah k so you are getting at the fact that it's mainly in stock awards.
Still, I don't see how that should not be able to still spark a discussion.
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On April 28 2013 16:51 Joedaddy wrote:Show nested quote +Rarely does anyone actually deserve to be making this kind of money, not to mention the fact that no one could spend this much money in one lifetime. This self righteous indignation is disgusting. The fact that people actually believe this kind of thing is mind boggling. People deserve to make as much money as somebody else is willing to pay them. Period. I'd wager there isn't a nerd on the internet who would decline Kotick's paycheck for services rendered.
To be polite, your...philosophy...isn't shared by most of the people on the planet. There's plenty of people who would turn down larger sums of money for more services rendered.
On April 28 2013 17:40 EpiK wrote:
What is he doing wrong? All you are arguing is that he makes too much by your standards and should spread his earnings. Since when is altruism in a CEO's job description? Most employees don't give a shit about the company they're working for and only care about getting compensated for the work they did. Well this is the CEO's compensation and whether he gives a damn about the distribution of all the earnings is irrelevant.
And by "these guys" do you mean most of the major US companies? Because this issue has been prevalent for a while. That's just one of the depressing realities of unregulated capitalism. Point fingers at "the system" all you want. It's never going to change.
There are exactly zero people here who are suggesting that what is earning is illegal. He is perfectly in his right to take his raise.
On the other hand, one's rights and legal obligations are not necessarily aligned with what is moral. For example, it would be perfectly within my rights to take my money, convert it into North Korean won, and burn it in front of starving children. Most people would still consider it to be a douche move, though.
Of course, what is "moral" is its own can of worms...
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EPT
